Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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1 minute ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

The FO knew way earlier than that.

 

They knew about the medical mis-hap, but did they know he was going to hold out and be that firm with it ?

Hard to believe they would know the latter, but then only draft/sign Guards and not Tackles in the offseason.

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1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

They knew about the medical mis-hap, but did they know he was going to hold out and be that firm with it ?

Hard to believe they would know the latter, but then only draft/sign Guards and not Tackles in the offseason.

 

My bet is it was brewing in March.

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20 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

My bet is it was brewing in March.

 

the other reports made it sound like Trent was quiet about being upset at the time. When it's not the season he doesn't stick around here. So, I wouldn't be shocked if the team found out he was pissed on that June 1 date.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Also, if Trent was a team player but also wanted out, then letting the team know earlier would have been ideal. The way it looks to me is he purposely waited til after the draft and free agency, thus screwing over the organization. He also unintentionally (or intentionally) screwed over his teammates. 

Sound Familiar? His BFF succeeded to the tune of 84Mil

1 hour ago, JaxJoe said:

Not being smart ass..but who is Paul Conner? What gives him cred? Like was said..IF that is true..it does clarify *some* of the anger. Funny Peterson and others haven't mentioned that..Where did this guy get his info.

Edited by The Hangman- C_Hanburger

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1 hour ago, Unbias said:

 

I hereby acknowledge that a football trainer/team doctor is not an oncologist/dermatologist (**disclaimer*** I am assuming the specific trainer/doctor has no background in that specific field or is currently an oncologist/dermatologist). 

 

Here's my question back to you - Do you acknowledge that people not property trained to diagnose unusual growth, shouldn't give a diagnosis? 

 

The training staff/internal doctors diagnosed it as a cyst and after recommending a 2nd opinion, then also responded that it wasn't an issue. Shouldn't their response be 'we aren't qualified to make that diagnosis, so we won't do it'?

 

They didn't give him an official diagnosis though.  They told him they thought it was a just a cyst and nothing to worry about and to go get a second opinion from a specialist.  Because they are not specialists in that field of study.  

 

The "official diagnosis" would come from the specialist that examines him, one specialized in dermatology or oncology, not a team trainer or doctor.  And because they are not properly trained, they told him to get a second opinion.  

 

We don't even know who he talked to about it.  For all we know he was getting worked out/stretched out in the training room by Trainer Bob or caught him in the hallway and just said, "Hey Bob, I got some lump thing on my head.   Take a look, what do you think it is?"  Etc. etc.

 

It could have been just a casual conversation between the trainer or even MD with no official examination taking place.   The team doctor may have examined him, documented it was a cyst in his medical chart they have with the recommendation to see a specialist.  Either way, at the end of the day, he was told to get a second opinion and he put it off.  

 

When I was a kid, I hit the curb while riding my bike and got thrown over the handle bars and my right knee smashed against the curb.  I collapsed when I tried to get up and put any weight on it.  Fluid built up under my knee-cap.  I went to my family doctor the next day.  He drained my knee and told us he thought it could be a torn ligament.  Told me I needed to go to an orthopedic surgeon to confirm what damage was done.  I went (and this was before MRI's were common - Yes, I'm old) and had x-rays twice, knee drained again and the official diagnosis was dislocated knee-cap.

 

My initial exam by my general practitioner lead to the wrong diagnosis, initially, and was corrected by the specialist upon a 2nd and 3rd exam.   That's how things work in the medical field.  Especially when you are asking someone questions about something they have no specialized training for.  And as an adult, Trent should know that when he starts asking football training/medical staff questions about a lump and it being cancerous or a serious thing that requires urgency, he is not going to get the most accurate medical advice he would from a specialist.

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13 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Not being smart ass..but who is Paul Conner? What gives him cred? Like was said..IF that is true..it does clarify *some* of the anger. Funny Peterson and others haven't mentioned that..Where did this guy get his info.

No offense taken. Paul Conner is an NFL analyst that specifically covers the redskins. He has credentials to cover the team and is the master at covering training camp play-by-play. Regarding TW, he, like me, reposts other news coverage articles and tweets and offers his two cents. He’s not too opinionated. He’s a straight shooter. 

 

I stayed out of the TW hold-out discussion until I read his re-tweet of DeAngelo Hall’s opinion on the matter who spoke directly with TW and was given approval by TW to let the world know. Now it seems that this DeAngelo Hall posting early this morning has opened up the floodgates of info on the matter. Now Kevin Sheehan has posted a Redskin’s source on the matter that supports the DeAngelo Hall post regarding that the medical staff misdiagnosed the “cyst” and worse, said “it’s nothing” and to continue playing and wait until the off season though get it checked out. 

 

What now surprises me is that it did indeed get to the team doctor level. All he had to do was write a script referring TW to a dermatologist  which would’ve put 100% of the responsibility on TW. 

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Posted (edited)

I would keep him on the roster as he did not show and doc him for every game and every day he misses. Then watch him walk. If he does not want to be a Redskin See ya. How many games has he missed in the last 3 years and he wants to be paid as a top-five left tackle. Give me a break and if he's that immature on the medical issue when the team told him to go get a second opinion then that's on him. I like Trent always have but team comes first.

Edited by Sidewinder

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What I don't understand is what does Trent hope to accomplish in his holdout ?

Seems like it's just to make a statement.

The medical situation itself is over, AFAIK. If he has a moral concern with what happened, he can sue the appropriate people.

As for the future, he can see his own doctors, can he not ?

So, I don't see the motivation for refusing to play for the team at this point, with all that in consideration.

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2 hours ago, DCranon21 said:

So about Trent, who does he want gone, the medical staff, Bruce, or both? Because this has nothing to do with money. Also can they just let him have his own independent staff as he's still under contract for 2 years I do believe. I know one person that isn't leaving and his initials are B.A.

 

Everything is ultimately about money.  Money may not have been the primary motivater, but money will be the only thing that resolves the issue.  I am confident he could find a way to overcome all his other objections if the cash is right.

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24 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

What I don't understand is what does Trent hope to accomplish in his holdout ?

Seems like it's just to make a statement.

The medical situation itself is over, AFAIK. If he has a moral concern with what happened, he can sue the appropriate people.

As for the future, he can see his own doctors, can he not ?

So, I don't see the motivation for refusing to play for the team at this point, with all that in consideration.

 

A couple times I thought that maybe firing the medical staff would be enough to get him here.  Not just because of Trent, but overall, because of the issues we’ve had.  Is there some sort of special attachment Dan has to the medical staff?  They are replaceable, Trent is not.

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1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

What I don't understand is what does Trent hope to accomplish in his holdout ?

Seems like it's just to make a statement.

The medical situation itself is over, AFAIK. If he has a moral concern with what happened, he can sue the appropriate people.

As for the future, he can see his own doctors, can he not ?

So, I don't see the motivation for refusing to play for the team at this point, with all that in consideration.

 

He's been here for a while and unfortunately some of his time has been a circus. For me this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back and made him start thinking of options. 

 

What does he want? This potential medical mishap probably gave him reason to ask for his trade/release which would also pave the way for an extension/raise. He'll go to a contender and get more cash.

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3 minutes ago, Unbias said:

 

 

 

He's been here for a while and unfortunately some of his time has been a circus. For me this was probably the straw that broke the camel's back and made him start thinking of options. 

 

What does he want? This potential medical mishap probably gave him reason to ask for his trade/release which would also pave the way for an extension/raise. He'll go to a contender and get more cash.

 

So it's as simple as "He wants out, period" and noting else will suffice.

Sounds like the most plausible explanation.

But how can you say for sure that he goes to a contender ? Does Trent have a clause in his contract that allows him to disprove a trade to a team that's not a contender ?

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4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

The FO knew way earlier than that.

And you know this how...?

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Posted (edited)

 

...The team is somewhat confused with Williams' request because they don't know what he wants. A source familiar with their thinking indicated he has not demanded specific changes on the medical staff, and Williams' side has been silent in attempts to negotiate a new contract. A source familiar with Williams' thinking indicated he wouldn't demand to be the highest paid tackle in the NFL, but does want more guaranteed money. He currently has two years remaining on his contract, but next year's $12.5 million base salary isn't guaranteed.

 

...As of now, both sides are dug in. Williams has made nearly $100 million in his career and has taken care of his finances in a way that he and his family are set. The Redskins' reported hope to squeeze him financially with fines aren't yet having an effect, but that could change. The amount of money Williams has accrued in fines, while significant, doesn't equal one of his game checks. Those start coming Week 1. As of now, Williams is telling friends he's prepared to sit out the season.

 

However, Williams still isn't ready to play football yet. The cosmetic surgeries that were required to fix his head limited his ability to workout in the offseason. While Williams is in Los Angeles rapidly getting into shape, he isn't there yet. When he is ready to play, his competitive nature could certainly kick in and his stomach to hold out could change.

 

Williams is also notoriously loyal. The reason he played in 2017 on a severely injured knee is because he didn't want to let down his teammates, or the only organization he's ever known. While he is upset with the organization, it won't be easy for him to miss games.

It won't be easy for the Redskins either. Donald Penn is a nice signing to add depth, and Geron Christian, Sr. has looked leaps and bounds better than last year in his limited action. But neither are Williams. Almost no one is.

For now, there is no looming deadline. Week 1 is still over a month away, however the silence of both sides seems to be doing damage. A relationship that was fractured but not irreparable is suddenly trending that way.

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/trent-williams-told-friends-hes-prepared-to-sit-out-the-season

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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https://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football

 

Profootballtalk's Mike Florio reports holdout LT Trent Williams "doesn't care" about the Redskins' fines threat.

The Redskins' galaxy brain idea to get Williams to report is apparently to enforce their ability to fine him $40,000 per day. Camp fines are a completely impotent bargaining tactic, as all parties know the only real recourse is to forgive them once the player finally reports or is traded. It's surprising the Redskins took the time to leak it was their plan. Washington needs a real general manager.

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Posted (edited)

The Hoffman story I just posted gets my attention a little considering of the people I've been listening to he's been the most positive that something gets done.  That story is somewhat of a departure for him.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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I'm almost wondering if he needs a psychiatrist.  This is an incredibly passive aggressive holdout.  He has demands but won't publicly declare them.  He's apparently pissed about them selecting a project tackle two years ago, despite the fact that his backup was three years older than him, had also been injured the eyar before, had experimented at guard for two years and was playing on a one year deal

 

I'm not sure if he'd actually show up if the Skins traded him

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15 minutes ago, carex said:

I'm almost wondering if he needs a psychiatrist.  This is an incredibly passive aggressive holdout.  He has demands but won't publicly declare them. 

 

Huh? It's called being a professional. He has beef but isn't being a drama queen in the media doing crunches in his driveway. His agent is in contact with the team and has made his demands very clear. Why do you need a public circus that makes it even worse?

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9 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

. His agent is in contact with the team and has made his demands very clear.

Maybe I'm a little behind due to work. What exactly are his demands?

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8 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Huh? It's called being a professional. He has beef but isn't being a drama queen in the media doing crunches in his driveway. His agent is in contact with the team and has made his demands very clear. Why do you need a public circus that makes it even worse?

 

people are theorizing that he wants team employees fired and basically that he hates that one of his teammates is on the roster, and that his health concerns can basically be taken away for money.  None of these things are very professional

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3 minutes ago, carex said:

 

and basically that he hates that one of his teammates is on the roster

 

What are you saying here ?

All of his teammates are on the roster.

Is there a teammate he does not like ?

 

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1 minute ago, carex said:

 

people are theorizing that he wants team employees fired and basically that he hates that one of his teammates is on the roster, and that his health concerns can basically be taken away for money.  None of these things are very professional

A bit dramatic.

 

He wants staff fired that he believes aren’t looking out for players best interest.

 

It was eye opening to him when they drafted Christian given the other holes on the line and the money they have tied up.

 

He wants to play and given how he feels about the care the players are under, he wants his money guaranteed.

 

A bit less sensationalized version of the events.  You can not like it and conjure up reasons why he’s an ahole all you want.  But that’s what I’ve taken away from all of it.

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Rotoworld just seems unnecessarily negative in their comments. It's still not clear what exactly Trent even wants. It seems like there was really one source on all of this, JLC, until very recently. And even then I've read many variations on the "actual" story. So anyone treating these reports as facts are just assuming what's going on. I know Rotoworld isn't exactly a news source, but it seems to fail to acknowledge the huge uncertainty and speculation as to what's actually going on here. Additionally, Rotoworld is criticizing the team for "fining" Williams. Yet it is something every team does. So now apparently the Redskins are idiots for doing what everyone else does.

 

I feel it's all posturing at this point. When Williams claims he'll sit out the year, I generally believe it to be an empty threat. But one made in an attempt to gain leverage. I don't think Williams actually has that much leverage, unlike some in this thread. The Redskins have missed the playoffs 3 years running. And most people don't expect them to compete this year either. In fact, the only teams with worse Super Bowl odds are the Cardinals and Dolphins. That doesn't mean one has to write off the season before it starts, but it's a realistic outlook to say having or not having Williams is unlikely to make much difference in the final result of the season. Plus, Williams is already 31 and under contract for two more years. At a fairly high rate of pay (even with less guaranteed money). If Williams is looking to get paid, sitting out isn't going to help that. So what is it that Williams does want? If it's a trade, I'd be open to a trade for a good return. But not a trade just to get rid of him.

 

This seems like the Earl Thomas situation last year. Thomas did not report to Seattle's training camp expressing that he would hold out until the Seahawks either renegotiated his current contract or traded him to another team. After missing all of training camp and the preseason, Thomas reported to the Seahawks just days prior to Week 1. And you know what? The Seahawks were fining him too throughout:

 

https://www.thenewstribune.com/sports/nfl/seattle-seahawks/article216078735.html

 

Maybe not so surprisingly, Rotoworld was not as obviously acrimonious towards Seattle last year. And maybe, in the end, Seattle was right to not give Thomas a new deal (or trade him on the cheap). Interestingly, by all accounts the Seahawks did collect all $1 million-plus in fines it levied against Kam Chancellor for the same thing a few years earlier. So despite Rotoworld's claims of "these fines are never levied" and "camp fines are a completely impotent bargaining tactic, as all parties know the only real recourse is to forgive them", you may want to talk to Kam Chancellor. 

 

Another interesting tidbit in all this is that Trent is a vested veteran. And as such, if he's on the active roster through the first game of the regular season his entire salary for that season becomes guaranteed. So that's more incentive to work something out Prior to week 1 if Trent wants guaranteed money. One might just have to wait til September to find a resolution to all of this.

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1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

What are you saying here ?

All of his teammates are on the roster.

Is there a teammate he does not like ?

 

 

supposedly he didn't like the team drafting Geron Christian and it's legitimate enough a columnist felt it was okay to print it in the Post.  It said nothing about his relationship with Christian as a person, but if you don't like the team acquiring someone then you basically don't want them on the team

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