Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not that any of us are this lucky, but imagine the other side of this...

 

Trent taking a stand, leading to the departure of Bruce Allen, and a complete overhaul in Ashburn.  

 

Okay, I’m dreaming, but man - what if?

Yep I was thinking that as well. Trent may get Bruce fired.  At this point, Penn doing well may wreck that vision. 

 

BUT. If Penn falls flat on his face, Bruce get a paltry return from NE and Trent plays 16 en route to 2 party bowls (Pro, and Super, not the other). all while our season goes off the rails?  Our QBs are on the run and under constant duress, we once again lead the league in injuries..... the icing on the cake may have to be another failed stadium deal.

 

But Dan obviously likes Bruce. Bruce may do his dirty work with question (TAKE DWAYNE and get BOSTICs Kid!!!1!)... so its all a pipe dream at this point. Speaking of which...

 

 

Edited by RandyHolt
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21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not that any of us are this lucky, but imagine the other side of this...

 

Trent taking a stand, leading to the departure of Bruce Allen, and a complete overhaul in Ashburn.  

 

Okay, I’m dreaming, but man - what if?

 

 

That would be great...but I guess it depends on what "complete overhaul" means. We had a pretty complete overhaul in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2010 where we changed people at the very top under Snyder. Nothing on the field has really changed much. 

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Posted (edited)

 

 

...He prefers to be traded, multiple people have said, confirming a CBS Sports report. It’s possible that money could be a remedy, but this is similar to the infamous Kirk Cousins situation. Pay Williams something ridiculous, and he’s no fool. But it would be a desperate and reckless move for the franchise to make, given Williams’s age and injury history. More than anything, Williams wants his dissatisfaction acknowledged, and he wants a solution to his lack of trust in the medical staff...

 

...If Washington thinks it can wait him out and make him bleed money, one person close to him insisted, “His finances are good. Some things are more important than money."...

 

Barring a kind of miracle the Redskins never pull off, Williams is gone. It feels like it happened quickly, but it was gradual. And what’s worse, there’s a chance it could have been avoided with just a little preemptive adult conversation.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/trent-williamss-relationship-with-redskins-is-fractured-and-theres-no-going-back/2019/08/01/6b8d6372-b400-11e9-8949-5f36ff92706e_story.html?utm_term=.e56eb8d52d4b

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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21 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Not that any of us are this lucky, but imagine the other side of this...

 

Trent taking a stand, leading to the departure of Bruce Allen, and a complete overhaul in Ashburn.  

 

Okay, I’m dreaming, but man - what if?

 

 

 

I'm with you. Let us all bow our heads..............🙏

 

I agree 100% with the post that KDawg shared yesterday, outlining the reasons why Trent should be allowed to move on, and why the team actually needs to move on. Beneath the surface, though, I'm wondering if there is indeed something that must be done with the staff issues that might be part of Trent's qualms with the team. I've listened to what Santana had to say, also to what DHall said a few days ago; then I read this piece: https://www.hogshaven.com/2019/6/8/18657510/john-keim-podcast-raises-issues-about-redskins-training-and-medical-staffs

 

There seems to be some real trouble underneath the surface there with the training-treatment-recovery dynamics. If this is the underlying reality that Moses referred to when he said that he's glad somebody finally took a stand, then I hope Snyder takes action to address it.

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Texans seem like interesting trade partners. Tytus Howard and a mid-rounder for Trent? I'd pull that trigger personally.

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SIP- that Brewer article is the only way I see this situation. I was mocking up our depth chart last week and just removed TW after we signed Penn. The situation is crystal clear, but I think many just don't want to believe it. TW and Penn are good friends and Penn was clear that he wanted to come here to play LT... there's not much reading between the lines necessary. Where there's smoke there's fire with trade rumors and I'm sure the FO is fielding calls. The good thing is that all reports are saying that we have a very high asking price. The issue is that the NFL knows TW has us by the balls and if he holds out, it just hurts us. If we can get a 2nd rounder, I'll take it. I love TW, hate that it's going to end this way, but he's no spring chicken, and his play and health have been on the decline... **** this drama, let's get everyone's head on straight going into the season, pull the trigger on the trade.

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Just now, Chump Bailey said:

Texans seem like interesting trade partners. Tytus Howard and a mid-rounder for Trent? I'd pull that trigger personally.

 

DeAndre Hopkins for TW straight up... lol

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23 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

That would be great...but I guess it depends on what "complete overhaul" means. We had a pretty complete overhaul in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2010 where we changed people at the very top under Snyder. Nothing on the field has really changed much. 

Oh I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean it will make anything better.  Complete overhaul to me doesn't even necessarily mean everyone has to go.  I'd just prefer an outsider to pick who stays and who goes.  An outsider that isn't here to make Dan comfortable or shield him from the bullets.

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Posted (edited)

Our only hope that Bruce doesn't botch the trade valuation is that Trent's such a great player, that the bidders drive up the price so high, that even he can't screw this one up.  I think a WR1 type would be a wise target in a trade. 

 

I cannot believe we are losing our best player, yet retaining Bruce.

Edited by RandyHolt
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2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Oh I agree that it doesn't necessarily mean it will make anything better.  Complete overhaul to me doesn't even necessarily mean everyone has to go.  I'd just prefer an outsider to pick who stays and who goes.  An outsider that isn't here to make Dan comfortable or shield him from the bullets.

 

I would love if Snyder paid some panel of respected NFL experts a boatload of money to build him a front office. 

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1 minute ago, RandyHolt said:

Our only hope that Bruce doesn't botch the trade valuation is that Trent's such a great player, that the bidders drive up the price so high, that even he can't screw this one up.

 

I cannot believe we are losing our best player, yet retaining Bruce.

I love Trent and I'm not opposed to him being traded.  If he's seen enoug here and wants to move on - so be it.  It would just be way better for all of us if someone else was in charge of deciding whether he stays or goes, and if he goes - what we should get in return.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Yep I was thinking that as well. Trent may get Bruce fired.  At this point, Penn doing well may wreck that vision. 

 

BUT. If Penn falls flat on his face, Bruce get a paltry return from NE and Trent plays 16 en route to 2 party bowls (Pro, and Super, not the other). all while our season goes off the rails?  Our QBs are on the run and under constant duress, we once again lead the league in injuries..... the icing on the cake may have to be another failed stadium deal.

 

But Dan obviously like Bruce. Bruce may do his dirty work (TAKE DWAYNE)... so its all a pipe dream at this point. Speaking of which...

 

 

 

I doubt he plays 16 games per season again.  He has missed 13 games the last three seasons, which almost equals an entire season.  He's not getting any younger and regardless of how he got injured (was it due to a poor training/medical staff?), that damage to his body is already done.  Not to mention his position requires all that weight, which over time is hard on those guys joints, etc.  

 

And I'd say getting a first round pick for him is a pipe dream.  All of the other 31 teams know he wants out and it's not related to money/contract but to the training staff (based on what we know in the media).  Those teams also know that he's missed 13 games the last three seasons.  It's a what have you done for me lately league, and lately Trent has missed 13 games his last three seasons.  

 

Yes, he has made the pro-bowl the last 7 seasons and one of the top tackles in football when on the field.  I just don't think a team is going to pull the trigger on giving up a first round pick for him, unless they have multiple first round picks to work with.  And right now, the only team with two first round picks in 2020 is the Raiders.  And I'd imagine that the pick the Bears gave them for Mack will most likely fall between 27-32 depending if they follow-up with another great season (went 12-4 last year).

 

I'd say the only chance we have would be if Chucky bailed out his little bro and sent that pick to us for Trent and maybe our 2020 2nd or 3rd rounder or some combination of Trent and future picks (not including any 1st round ones).  Even then, I think the odds are extremely slim on that happening.

 

 

 

Edited by Dont Taze Me Bro

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1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I would love if Snyder paid some panel of respected NFL experts a boatload of money to build him a front office. 

I gather Dan wants to win, but not if it means owning his failures as an owner.  Hence LaFemina's short stay here.  It would seem he liked what he knew about LaFemina and thought well enough that he needed someone in Ashburn to help turn things around and get it off Bruce's plate.  But once he realized it would require him to take his lumps, bye bye LaFemina.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I love Trent and I'm not opposed to him being traded.  If he's seen enoug here and wants to move on - so be it.  It would just be way better for all of us if someone else was in charge of deciding whether he stays or goes, and if he goes - what we should get in return.

 

Good points. The dysfunction has caught up to Bruce, and now he is losing a top player on the eve of the season.  We are damn lucky to get Penn. Bruce should have seen danger a month ago if not 6 months, and addressed this long before a week before preseason.


Perhaps there is a kid in a camp dominating somewhere, and freeing up an otherwise respected vet for us as a trade partner.  

Edited by RandyHolt

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14 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The thing is we don't now though what Trent is thinking.  He's clearly upset about something.  

With the latest volley of tweets, it’s clear to me that the beef is in fact with the training staff regarding the former growth on his head. Now, there’s a bit of naiveté on TW’s part on how the healthcare system works but I now fully support TW’s position. According to DeAngelo Hall, Trent went to the trainers and complained about a growth on his head during the season and the trainers said it’s nothing and to play through it and that they’ll look at the matter after the season. Well, the trainers were right, sort of, and were very lucky. Trent is understandably upset because he must feel like the trainers blew it off, potentially putting his life in danger, to squeeze another few games out of him. I’d be pissed too. 

 

Back to to the medical staff. The trainer(s) who told him that should’ve,  and by law, referred the growth to the team doctor. Neither the trainer nor the team doctor (assumably a general practitioner) is qualified to diagnose a growth and should’ve immediately, and by law, referred to a dermatologist who then would’ve taken a biopsy to determine possible cancer but would’ve also determined if the tumor was near a critical blood vessel in the brain. I think that, even with a benign tumor, there was likely a bleed-out risk and the trainers and possibly the team doctor waived it off. 

 

I will speculate that this life-threatening risk was made aware to Trent in the off season by a specialist doctor and that is what galvanized TW. I cannot speculate who and when Redskin’s management was made aware of this issue but a lack of action is understandingly infuriating. 

 

Personally, I think there is just cause into firing at least the trainer in question and at a minimum, a grievance should be filed with Virginia. If the team doctor was made aware by the trainer, he too could be fired for cause. Or, at a minimum, the whole staff and the procedures be investigated by the board of health. My wife is a doctor. These things happen all the time at her hospital. If a grievance hasn’t been filed, then Trent is actually being the nice guy in this situation. 

 

Another perspective is the economic one. TW will earn $12M this year and is absolutely essential to the success and health of our new franchise QB. The training staff collectively might draw a salary of $500k. It’s akin to having a minimum-wage grease monkey from an  express oil shop tinker on a Ferrari. 

 

From an executive point of view, I would at least sack the trainer(s) in question and possibly the team doctor not simply to appease Trent Williams, but for a legitimate reason of healthcare violations. The team is lucky that Virginia hasn’t picked this up. I also think there might be a CBA grievance. 

 

My two cents. 

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/P_ConnerJr/status/1156771468241506305

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5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Good points. The dysfunction has caught up to Bruce, and now he is losing a top player on the eve of the season.  We are damn lucky to get Penn. Bruce should have seen danger a month ago if not 6 months, and addressed this long before a week before preseason.


Perhaps there is a kid in a camp dominating somewhere, and freeing up an otherwise respected vet for us as a trade partner.  

 Bruce Allen does not have enough respect for players.  Even great players who have demonstrated loyalty.  His ego is too fragile.  It becomes personal rather then him thinking strategically or learning from the past.   He is not going to give in to any demands from any player,  including Trent,  because the fragility of his ego cannot tolerate it.  To say personalities and their dysfunction do not play a part in the running of an organization is naive.   I think we all know this guy is a dysfunctional mess.  And the guy in my opinion, and based on numerous accounts, drinks way too much alcohol.   And it impairs judgment.  I mean he is grinding on something.  

 

As a fan of the team, and it is hard to say because I am a big fan of Trent Williams - but if you do not want to be here, it is time to move on and while we possibility can, salvage something out of this to improve the Redskins.  But I can see Bruce ****ing this up too.

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11 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Perhaps there is a kid in a camp dominating somewhere, and freeing up an otherwise respected vet for us as a trade partner.  

 

I'm not sure teams just unload tackles (who are willing to play for them). Think about the luxury we had with Ty Nysheke the past couple years. If a team has an established vet who is being outplayed by a younger player, odds are they'd just keep the vet as a swing tackle since they have already counted on paying both players. 

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Posted (edited)

I was just listening to Mike Jones and he seems optimistic that they settle this.  I think the hard part here for reporters (most of whom admit this) is they are mainly getting the FO's perspective of how it is going down.  And the FO seems optimistic it gets worked out.  Looks like Trent isn't talking to reporters off the record but apparently is doing so with some players.  The local beat guys are mostly optimistic still. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Just why is it Bruce's fault that a player has a gripe and he balks at the "remedy" of firing an entire staff with families WITHOUT any proof being offered by the player AND whose responsibility it was to manage his body?? Then you all say TW should go to Dan to get results AFTER these same people saw what that relationship with RG3 did to the team. AND vilified Dan (rightly for having a personal preference on a player). This player signed a contract and was paid UP FRONT to adhere to the contract. He consumed the front loaded goodies  with 3years of injury tainted performance and NOW thinks he's entitled to another goodie laden renegotiation....

 

Man I know this is a forum..but hold the right person responsible here..How would YOU manage your business if an employee did this to you?

 

Lets hear what the problem really is before castigating the FO on this one...

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How long until the "Trent Williams is being unreasonable" smear campaign starts leaking out from the front office?  By the time he leaves they'll be preaching to the fanbase that Trent was an inconsistent, frequently penalized malcontent whose selfish demands are the only thing holding us back from being truly competitive.

 

Sick smiley 21

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I tried to give the Redskins the benefit of the doubt on this... There is no coming back Trent is gone and I am actually mad about it. Trent is one of the guys who should be a Redskin for life and the Redskins botched that. I am so over the front office, thought after the draft there might be better days... Nope! 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Just why is it Bruce's fault that a player has a gripe and he balks at the "remedy" of firing an entire staff with families WITHOUT any proof being offered by the player AND whose responsibility it was to manage his body?? Then you all say TW should go to Dan to get results AFTER these same people saw what that relationship with RG3 did to the team. AND vilified Dan (rightly for having a personal preference on a player). This player signed a contract and was paid UP FRONT to adhere to the contract. He consumed the front loaded goodies  with 3years of injury tainted performance and NOW thinks he's entitled to another goodie laden renegotiation....

 

Man I know this is a forum..but hold the right person responsible here..How would YOU manage your business if an employee did this to you?

 

Lets hear what the problem really is before castigating the FO on this one...

I'm curious what decisions you think to FO has made in the past 25 years that were positive and helpful to the team? I've been a loyal fan since the '60s and the FO has done everything in their power to make sure I don't watch games anymore.

Edited by Skintime
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3 minutes ago, Skintime said:

I'm curious what decisions you think to FO has made in the past 25 years? I've been a loyal fan since the '60s and the FO has done everything in their power to make sure I don't watch games anymore.

Some of the fans live in the same delusion as it appears Dan does.  it's always someone else's fault.

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16 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Just why is it Bruce's fault that a player has a gripe and he balks at the "remedy" of firing an entire staff with families WITHOUT any proof being offered by the player AND whose responsibility it was to manage his body?? Then you all say TW should go to Dan to get results AFTER these same people saw what that relationship with RG3 did to the team. AND vilified Dan (rightly for having a personal preference on a player). This player signed a contract and was paid UP FRONT to adhere to the contract. He consumed the front loaded goodies  with 3years of injury tainted performance and NOW thinks he's entitled to another goodie laden renegotiation....

 

Man I know this is a forum..but hold the right person responsible here..How would YOU manage your business if an employee did this to you?

 

Lets hear what the problem really is before castigating the FO on this one...

This is one of the more delusional things Ive heard on here.  Thats pretty impressive!

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