Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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Penn is here to start. Go to think he's getting very good money, whats the guess, 5-6mil ??? Pretty clear we need to draft a tackle early in 2020, and the draft is likely stacked. 

 

Trent may well be done here.

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8 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Penn is here to start. Go to think he's getting very good money, whats the guess, 5-6mil ??? Pretty clear we need to draft a tackle early in 2020, and the draft is likely stacked. 

 

Trent may well be done here.

 

SIgning Penn doesn't necessarily or automatically mean Trent is never coming back.

It just means it's not worth taking that chance that that could happen.

Who knows, signing Penn could have the opposite effect, and may make Trent come back sooner, if he sees the signing as lost leverage.

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Posted (edited)

I don't see Penn as the starter although he could very well be the the interim until Williams comes back.

 

I see Penn as the insurance for both RT and LT spots along with Catalina. I think he's more of a replacement for Ty Nsekhe who we lost in free agency. 

Edited by SemperFi Skins
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Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Penn is here to start. Go to think he's getting very good money, whats the guess, 5-6mil ??? Pretty clear we need to draft a tackle early in 2020, and the draft is likely stacked. 

 

Trent may well be done here.

 

It is waaaaaaaaaaaay to early to tell. According to walterfootball.com, which is just a list of names with a ton of pop up adds, there are 5 tackles with potential first round grades, meaning they are given a range that can fall between the first and third rounds. The other tackles start at the second round and have a range going deeper than that. 

 

Just a thought - If Penn is going to be the starting tackle Bruce Allen would have given him a starting LT type contract. I'm basing this off of other moves like extending Alex Smith after letting Kirk go. It just seems like the way he does business. When he switches direction he makes it seem like 'plan B' isn't far off of 'plan A' from a financial commitment stance. 

 

When the Penn deal comes out it will probably tell is all we need to know about Trent. 

Edited by Unbias
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1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

We did draft him. He was a project but got tossed to the wolves.

 

I cannot ever recall seeing an OL get lifted up off his feet as high as Geron, in one of his first snaps. And then blew out his knee in his first start a week later.

 

Thanks.  I forgot about Geron.  How's he doing now?

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3 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

An early second?! Did I hear that right? 

 

Good left tackles don’t grow on trees. Great ones certainly don’t. And ELITE ones are extremely difficult to come by, there’s what, a handful of elite tackles? Teams are willing to spend high first round picks on messy prospects like Kolton Miller and you don’t think someone would fork over a single first for possibly the best LT in the league? It’s not like he’s 35, he has a good 4-5 years in him (what you would control a rookies rights for anyway).

 

If we trade Trent for less than a first I’ll be the first person marching into the Bruce thread wondering what the hell is going on. 

 

Trent  being the best LT in the league is going to be a really tough case to make, even when he's completely healthy. When healthy he's still top 5 possibly, but with his injuries and getting older he has lost a step. 

 

Either way, the fact of the matter is that Trent has had injuries and hasn't played a full season since 2013. Teams are going to take that into account. Yeah, if some team loses a top tier OT before the season or early on in it (when they still have hope for the season) then they may panic and give up a 1st. Otherwise, I don't see it.

 

I also think the leverage thing is sort of a wash, with a bit more of it being on the team's side possibly. Trent can sit out, but most of his pay this year will be from game checks so if he's fine with not playing and not getting paid then he has more leverage. If he's not, then the team does. If he sits we both lose though, so I think in the end it's basically even. 

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9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Trent  being the best LT in the league is going to be a really tough case to make, even when he's completely healthy. When healthy he's still top 5 possibly, but with his injuries and getting older he has lost a step. 

 

Either way, the fact of the matter is that Trent has had injuries and hasn't played a full season since 2013. Teams are going to take that into account. Yeah, if some team loses a top tier OT before the season or early on in it (when they still have hope for the season) then they may panic and give up a 1st. Otherwise, I don't see it.

 

I also think the leverage thing is sort of a wash, with a bit more of it being on the team's side possibly. Trent can sit out, but most of his pay this year will be from game checks so if he's fine with not playing and not getting paid then he has more leverage. If he's not, then the team does. If he sits we both lose though, so I think in the end it's basically even. 

 

RE: Best LT - I agree with you, but LT is a mixed bag. Who's really better? Tyron Smith, but he's had back issues the past few years and that's bad for a guy his size/position. Lewan? He's 28 and just nailed for PEDs. Solder? No chance. Bakhtiari? Maybe. He's also 28. Armstead? possibly. Peters? Way to old at this point. Honestly there's not 4 clear cut better LTs than him, so he might be more of a top 3 type LT. 

 

RE: Leverage - Totally agree with you. You can make a story for each side having more leverage, which typically means it's a stale mate. What I'm wondering is if the past two tackle signings were to gain leverage or to move on? It's possible to sign players and extend him, but with limited cap space it's not likely. 

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Assuming Trent will not play. How does Penn/Robinson w/ the rookies stackup in the NFCE. Average..better than average? With our RB's being above average, has Bruce mitigated a blown season? And what happens to our Cap if Trent shows and the Penn $$ are 5 mil...only 5 mil for injuries? Do we now have a potential cap problem looming?

 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Assuming Trent will not play. How does Penn/Robinson w/ the rookies stackup in the NFCE. Average..better than average? With our RB's being above average, has Bruce mitigated a blown season? And what happens to our Cap if Trent shows and the Penn $$ are 5 mil...only 5 mil for injuries? Do we now have a potential cap problem looming?

 

I'll take a shot at answering these. 

 

RE: Assuming no Trent how do we stack up in the NFCE? - Well, we have less talent than the Williams, Moses, Ty group from last year. Granted that group didn't stay healthy, but there's no guarantee the Penn/Moses/Johnson group will be any healthier. Truthfully if Penn goes down like he did last year then it's going to be a hot mess. I'd rate it average to below average. The Cowboys and Eagles worry me. 

 

RE: With RBs has Bruce mitigated a blow season? - I'd say we have more overall talent, which is good, but what the RBs end up doing will be a larger reflection on what the OL does and if Haskins can keep the safeties honest.

 

RE: Cap situation - Don't think it matters. If Trent sits out we'll get cap space back. If we trade him we'll get cap space back. From a cap perspective the worst case is if Trent returns, which actually makes the team better, so all options have upside. 

Edited by Unbias
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Do people not realize that part of why teams gamble on "messy" OT prospects in the early 1st round of the draft is because they get that guy on a rookie contract? No one is giving a 1st for an OT that is Trent's age, with Trent's injury risks and maybe most especially Trent's contract. 

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32 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

Interesting exchanges between these two.  Hmmmmmm.  :) 

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1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Do people not realize that part of why teams gamble on "messy" OT prospects in the early 1st round of the draft is because they get that guy on a rookie contract? No one is giving a 1st for an OT that is Trent's age, with Trent's injury risks and maybe most especially Trent's contract. 

 

I agree on the 1st rounder. The Texans are expected to get an extra comp pick in the 3rd round to go along with their full set of picks.

 

No doubt we'd love the recoup that 2020 2nd used in the Montez trade. Is a 2nd and 3rd possible for Trent....if a trade was to be discussed that is...

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2 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Do people not realize that part of why teams gamble on "messy" OT prospects in the early 1st round of the draft is because they get that guy on a rookie contract? No one is giving a 1st for an OT that is Trent's age, with Trent's injury risks and maybe most especially Trent's contract. 

 

Absolutely, but if a team is in 'win now' mode they would rather gamble on a known level of productivity. When thinking trade partners look no farther than Houston. O'Brien is on his 6th season with the team and they are coming off a 11 win campaign. Their worst season, in 2017, was when Watson went down. They have ~$40M in cap space and have done things like trading away Brock O with picks just to create space, so they are not afraid to make a move. Add in that their current LT is Julie'n Davenport. Last season was his rookie year, but he took 16 penalties and allowed 12 sacks! Trent would be an immediate upgrade. 

 

Would Houston give a first for Trent? Probably not, but something like a 3rd that can turn into a 2nd with certain escalators (playing time, extension), then we have a chance. 

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3 minutes ago, Unbias said:

Would Houston give a first for Trent? Probably not, but something like a 3rd that can turn into a 2nd with certain escalators (playing time, extension), then we have a chance. 

 

No way I'd take a 3rd for Trent.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I agree on the 1st rounder. The Texans are expected to get an extra comp pick in the 3rd round to go along with their full set of picks.

 

No doubt we'd love the recoup that 2020 2nd used in the Montez trade. Is a 2nd and 3rd possible for Trent....if a trade was to be discussed that is...

 

Houston got a 2nd and 3rd rd pick (spread over two years) from Seattle for Duane Brown and their 5th rd pick.  Originally it was a 2nd and Jeremy Lane for Brown but then Lane failed his physical and then Seattle amended the trade with a 3rd.  

 

So yeah I think the precedent set from the Brown trade is a 2nd and 3rd rd pick.  

Edited by drowland
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14 minutes ago, drowland said:

 

Houston got a 2nd and 3rd rd pick (spread over two years) from Seattle for Duane Brown and their 5th rd pick.  Originally it was a 2nd and Jeremy Lane for Brown but then Lane failed his physical and then Seattle amended the trade with a 3rd.  

 

So yeah I think the precedent set from the Brown trade is a 2nd and 3rd rd pick.  

 

We could also ask to take Tytus Howard off their hands. 

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2 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

SIgning Penn doesn't necessarily or automatically mean Trent is never coming back.

It just means it's not worth taking that chance that that could happen.

Who knows, signing Penn could have the opposite effect, and may make Trent come back sooner, if he sees the signing as lost leverage.

It does suggest that the front office is now taking his absence much more seriously and are worried that he isn't coming back. That, and they realize what piss poor shape they are at tackle behind #71.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I wonder if signing Penn will have any effect, positive or negative, on Trent and his views on coming back. One one hand I could see him saying to himself "Looks like they're serious about letting me sit out, maybe I should rethink this", but on the other he could be saying "Screw that, they already got someone else...obviously they don't want me that bad. I'm not going back". 

Edited by mistertim

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

Thanks.  I forgot about Geron.  How's he doing now?

 

Probably terrible. We just brought in 2 tackles in the past 24 hours.

 

A rookie project that gets injured in his first game, likely remains a project. I hope we stick him on the PS this year vs depending on him as a unready backup.

Edited by RandyHolt

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4 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Probably terrible. We just brought in 2 tackles in the past 24 hours.

 

A rookie project that gets injured in his first game, likely remains a rookie. I hope we stick him on the PS this year vs depending on him as a unready backup.

 

You can't put a 3rd rounder on the PS this soon, he won't last in an OL-starved league. If they think he has any potential at all, he's a roster lock. 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Probably terrible. We just brought in 2 tackles in the past 24 hours.

 

 

His son has done more at camp, than he has. His son recovered a fumble by Trey Quinn.

Maybe we should give Geron Junior a look at the position ?

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

You can't put a 3rd rounder on the PS this soon, he won't last in an OL-starved league. If they think he has any potential at all, he's a roster lock. 

 

Well its a risk I am willing to take unless he shows decent progress.  He has shown being injury prone thus far. Remember he has to be added to their active roster so it will cost that same team a player themselves, that they just retained on their 53.

 

Or, he could get "injured" in the final preseason game. That is the way it is done in the big leagues. #GibbsWasKing

 

I may be ok with a 3rd on a project with durable tackles but it wasn't exactly unexpected that we would need him to see some reps last year.  Either take a T that is ready or work free agency.

 

If I had a dollar for every time we heard a guy would never make it to the PS...

 

Edited by RandyHolt

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14 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Well its a risk I am willing to take unless he shows decent progress.  He has shown being injury prone thus far. Remember he has to be added to their active roster so it will cost that same team a player themselves, that they just retained on their 53.

 

Or, he could get "injured" in the final preseason game. That is the way it is done in the big leagues. #GibbsWasKing

 

I may be ok with a 3rd on a project with durable tackles but it wasn't exactly unexpected that we would need him to see some reps last year.  Either take a T that is ready or work free agency.

 

 

 

I'd agree with you if it wasn't for the huge leap Moses (most would admit unexpectedly) took after a year or two. Most of us disliked that pick, expected him to bust, and felt validated when he had a poor rookie year. We almost forgot about him in terms of long term OL chatter on this board until he took that RT spot from Scherff and ran with it, because we'd written him off. 

 

It's possible Callahan isn't done with him yet. 

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