Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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4 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

Easier for who exactly?  If I am in charge, I'd rather deal with the "drama" all year if it means he didn't get his way.  Again, on a personal level, I would more than likely side with Trent and whatever his concerns are.  But if I am Bruce or Dan, I am not moving on to make things "easier."

 

Personally I agree and to be fair there won't be much drama if Penn can hold up. If the LT position isn't a horrible mess. Trent will be forgot and he should be worried about that. 

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1 minute ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

Easier for who exactly?  If I am in charge, I'd rather deal with the "drama" all year if it means he didn't get his way.  Again, on a personal level, I would more than likely side with Trent and whatever his concerns are.  But if I am Bruce or Dan, I am not moving on to make things "easier."

 

I agree that teams/companies have to make an example of players who aren't falling in line, but I also think the team has to pick it's battles on who they do that with. Certain players have the respect of the locker room, so treating them poorly in the eyes of the team would most likely negatively impact what any GM/CEO is trying to build. 

 

It's kind of like the old saying "cutting off the nose to spite the face". The saying acts as a warning against acting out of revenge in a way that would damage oneself more than the object of one's anger.

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It's a move they needed to make to hedge their bets. I would still expect them to add another tackle if one if cut from another team that would clearly be better than the depth we have.

 

If Trent is upset with the med staff. That's fair. As we already covered here. The CBA is pretty clear that it's up to the player to want another opinion. Sounds like he got one and had surgery to remove something that wasn't but could have been a long term threat to his health. Own your health should go for everyone. Not just athletes. 

 

If Trent comes back or not. Next year needs to be about drafting tackles in the first few days. Need to get younger and healthier at that spot overall.

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An early second?! Did I hear that right? 

 

Good left tackles don’t grow on trees. Great ones certainly don’t. And ELITE ones are extremely difficult to come by, there’s what, a handful of elite tackles? Teams are willing to spend high first round picks on messy prospects like Kolton Miller and you don’t think someone would fork over a single first for possibly the best LT in the league? It’s not like he’s 35, he has a good 4-5 years in him (what you would control a rookies rights for anyway).

 

If we trade Trent for less than a first I’ll be the first person marching into the Bruce thread wondering what the hell is going on. 

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I'd probably trade trent to Houston for a 2nd in 2020 or a 1st in 2021. 

 

The talk radio down here has mentioned trading for trent a few times. I have no idea if the management is interested though I think it would be a good fit. 

 

I know one thing though, I wouldnt wait a year or two, the situation needs to be resolved earlier rather than later. 

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Posted (edited)

I kind of laugh at those folks that say **** him trade his ass to Buffalo!!!!11 as if other teams can be more systemically dysfunctional than here with our beloved Redskins :ols:

 

Make no mistake though, getting Penn was a wise move even WITH Trent.  It's not just Trent oft injured, Moses needs to be helped up many times a year, and Geron is basically a rookie.  Catalina has a better career in MMA.... whats left? Our wilted Flower.  

 

 

 

Edited by RandyHolt
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2 minutes ago, The Sean and Laron show said:

Looks like some fans are taking for granted  our 19 year run of top 5 LT play. LT is the only position that’s been locked down since we drafted Chris Samuels in 2000. 

 

31 year old Trent of let's say 75% of snaps for 3 more years >>>  anything you get in the middle of the first, on average. 

 

BTW Love the UserName.  Haven't had safety play like that for 12 years.  Hopefully that changes this year.

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1 minute ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

31 year old Trent of let's say 75% of snaps for 3 more years >>>  anything you get in the middle of the first, on average. 

I agree but it appears that we could very well be getting 30+ year old trent playing 0% of snaps for 3 more years. 

 

I'll take what I can get.. if he doesn't want to play here make the move and get maximum value while you can. 

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I listened to Craig Hoffman on Dukes yesterday and he mentioned that Santana Moss always used his own doctors and many players do, I had no clue that was the case.

 

My opinion is Trent just lost most if not all of his leverage.  Now his only recourse is to show up or file a grievance if he has a legitimate reason to do so.

 

I don't see how Trent can walk away from all that money as we head into a possible lockout next year, very strange strategy by him and his agent but we don't know the real story so maybe they have a very good case against the team to win a grievance.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

WTF????? Push what along?? The decision to have it removed?? the TS has no input as to when and who puts a knife to a player if the player's doctor says it's needed. I don't understand that quote at all???

 

Rapoport basically said/suggested this: 

 

There was a growth and the Redskins training staff didn't seem concerned about it or as concerned as Trent would have liked.   He implied that it was Trent's doctor who was concerned about it in part because it potentially could turn cancerous so I am guessing it was Trent's doctor who suggested the surgery.  If we run with that story the implication is that the Redskins training staff or doctors told him not to worry about it and Trent's doctor told him he indeed needs to worry about it.

 

And if you buy into some of the other reports then this isn't some isolated incident as for what Trent and some of the players think of some within the medical staff.  Pretty much every beat guy including (who is normally conservative as to rocking the boat) John Keim that they have heard gripes from the players about the medical staff.

 

Now again this is Rapoport.  He could be right.  But of all the national guys, I can't think of someone who has been wrong more often about multiple teams.

 

He also said that Penn had other options and he seemed to imply that Penn found this situation attractive -- I gather because he thinks he will get playing time here. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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18 minutes ago, The Sean and Laron show said:

Looks like some fans are taking for granted  our 19 year run of top 5 LT play. LT is the only position that’s been locked down since we drafted Chris Samuels in 2000. 

 

 

Clearly that brings success.

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8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Rapoport basically said/suggested this: 

 

There was a growth and the Redskins training staff didn't seem concerned about it or as concerned as Trent would have liked.   He implied that it was Trent's doctor who was concerned about it in part because it potentially could turn cancerous so I am guessing it was Trent's doctor who suggested the surgery.  If we run with that story the implication is that the Redskins training staff or doctors told him not to worry about it and Trent's doctor told him he indeed needs to worry about it.

 

And if you buy into some of the other reports then this isn't some isolated incident as for what Trent and some of the players think of some within the medical staff.  Pretty much every beat guy including (who is normally conservative as to rocking the boat) John Keim that they have heard gripes from the players about the medical staff.

 

Now again this is Rapoport.  He could be right.  But of all the national guys, I can't think of someone who has been wrong more often about multiple teams.

 

He also said that Penn had other options and he seemed to imply that he probably that Penn found this situation attractive -- I gather because he thinks he will get playing time. 

 

 

 

 

 

I just remember all the times players opt for holistic healing vs surgery recommended by the TS. Plenty of examples where player decides on a treatment or surgery contrary to the Skins recommendations, fairly common I would say . Landry is a prime example of a player doing it HIS way. Like I said..this argument "seems" a stretch     https://www.fredericksburg.com/sports/dc_sports/laron-landry-clarifies-his-health-stance-on-surgery-in-radio/article_b73377eb-6b2f-50ed-add7-cedce6e3cc6d.html

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1 hour ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

signing penn was a great necessary move irregardless of trents situation we needed tackles.

 

Correct.  We needed to draft Trent's replacement in 2018.  You don't wait until the starter falls apart (or quits) before deciding to address an obvious problem position.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

I just remember all the times players opt for holistic healing vs surgery recommended by the TS. Plenty of examples where player decides on a treatment or surgery contrary to the Skins recommendations, fairly common I would say . Landry is a prime example of a player doing it HIS way. Like I said..this argument "seems" a stretch     https://www.fredericksburg.com/sports/dc_sports/laron-landry-clarifies-his-health-stance-on-surgery-in-radio/article_b73377eb-6b2f-50ed-add7-cedce6e3cc6d.html

 

I guess that's open to interpretation.  To me, I am not banking on Rapoport being right.  But there is nothing about his narrative that seems a stretch to me if it's true.  

 

A.  Medical staff tell Trent not to worry

B.  He doesn't go straight to his doctor for a 2nd opinion (I've had surgery myself and here and there medical things pop and I don't naturally assume the first opinion is wrong or feel antsy to quickly get a 2nd option.

C.  Maybe the cyst didn't go away or got bigger or whatever and he decided then to go to his doctor

D. His doctor maybe goes dude take care of that right away before it turns cancerous

E.  This perhaps isn't Trent's first rodeo with not thinking much of the medical staff and has heard complaints from other players -- and he's upset.  Keim among others have said they've heard complaints from players about this medical staff.

 

Is all of this true?  I got no idea.  But I can see a narrative like this in play if its the medical staff that's driving Trent being upset.  I don't think Landry's own quirks of how he dealt with his medical situation eons ago has relevance to this.  I gather your point is a player can take their medical situation in their own hands.  I agree.  But I don't think its crazy that Trent didn't instantly get a 2nd opinion on their diagnosis if that's what went down -- especially if what happened was something like he was told its nothing to worry about or whatever they told him that left him with the impression that there isn't an urgency to deal with it.  I usually equate a 2nd opinion coming quickly when a doctor goes the opposite way where they suggest surgery -- not so much when the doctor brushes it off as not being a problem.  

 

But again I am only saying that if Rapoport's narrative is true and if so the logic behind it seems pretty linear to me.  Whether its true is another story.  He used modifiers where he hedged some of his language.   And he said he doesn't know what the Redskins intend to do on this.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Correct.  We needed to draft Trent's replacement in 2018.  You don't wait until the starter falls apart (or quits) before deciding to address an obvious problem position.

 

We did draft him. He was a project but got tossed to the wolves.

 

I cannot ever recall seeing an OL get lifted up off his feet as high as Geron, in one of his first snaps. And then blew out his knee in his first start a week later.

Edited by RandyHolt
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The ball is in Trent’s court now.  

 

Time for some soul-searching and good advice, young man.

 

See ya soon!

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54 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

I kind of laugh at those folks that say **** him trade his ass to Buffalo!!!!11 as if other teams can be more systemically dysfunctional than here with our beloved Redskins :ols:

 

Make no mistake though, getting Penn was a wise move even WITH Trent.  It's not just Trent oft injured, Moses needs to be helped up many times a year, and Geron is basically a rookie.  Catalina has a better career in MMA.... whats left? Our wilted Flower.  

 

Fully agree here. I actually think the best mix would have been a Trent/Penn combo at LT where we can with a certain degree of confidence say we will have an above average LT for Haskins all year long. 

 

The only thing that makes me think this won't happen is the timing. When we signed Corey Robinson it was thought that we offered Penn a low ball deal, then settled for Robinson. I'm wondering what happened from there? Did Penn and his agent go home, realize there isn't a bigger deal coming and call Washington back? Did the Redskins get a bit more info on Trent, take a step back and beef up their offer a bit? Realistically it was probably something in the middle and that end contract will tell us a lot in terms of what we can expect from the Trent situation. The way I see it, if Penn signs for something under$3M then Penn probably took the deal that was originally offered. If it's $5M+ then the Redskins moved their offer up. If it's between $3 and $5M, then it's both sides giving some ground just to get a deal done. 

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1 hour ago, justice98 said:

Saw a stat that Penn has 16 holding calls in 12 years.  And avoids penalties in general.  Far fewer penalties than Trent, in general..  

 

And no, I'm not suggesting he's better than Trent.  Before you knuckleheads start arguing with me.  lol

 

This is not an insignificant reference, @justice98. Penn is well-respected among the striped shirts. Trent's antics and the words he has for the officials have gotten old. They watch and respond more critically.

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Any scouting reports on how Penn was moving last year or recent injury history? 

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If anyone thinks us signing two tackles that no one else in the league wanted is keeping Trent up at nights, then they are pretty naive.  He knew full well that the team is capable of signing backups off the street and considered that when he decided to hold out.  That isnt a surprise to anyone and it doesnt change anything, and absolutely nothing hes going to do from here on out will be influenced by that.

 

And if he holds out the whole year, then its pretty obvious money doesnt even factor into his decision making.

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So for those that are still thinking it's about the money: 

 

June 5th - Jason La Canfora reports that Trent has demanded to be released/traded and that the reason was largely medical - Not regarded as a 'fact'.

June 7th - Bruce Allen only says that he knows what the truth is with Trent.

July 28th - Deangelo Hall says Trent Williams holdout is not about money and wants the training staff fired.

July 30th - Ian Rapoport discussed Penn signing that he wanted a starting gig and that the situation is based on something medical and the solution includes more money. 

 

We have multiple people saying things that align with a medical mishandling (according to Trent's side). 

 

We know something is up. Holdouts don't happen for no reason. We also have multiple people giving us info and the Skins are making moves (signing Robinson and now Penn). 

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1 hour ago, The Sean and Laron show said:

Looks like some fans are taking for granted  our 19 year run of top 5 LT play. LT is the only position that’s been locked down since we drafted Chris Samuels in 2000. 

 

I've been of the contention that LT has the greatest run at a position in the history of the franchise.  The last 35-40 years have seen Jacoby, Lachey, Samuels, and Trent for the vast majority. 

 

There was only that mid-late 90s dry period between Lachey and Samuels where it was almost a different guy every year.

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4 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

I am just wondering if this is more than just about money - but it might not be team associated. I am just wondering if it is related to the lump he had removed but maybe it was more of a health scare than has been reported - because when it was first talked about it seemed fairly damn serious ... then it became nothing. But if it was cancer, i have no idea on Williams family history with cancer, i have no idea how serious they thought this might do - and yes Williams faces the fear of life changing injury every time he steps on the field but to be in your mid 30s a millionaire multiple times over in the twighlight of your career and then suddenly the big C is in your life, I can see how this changes peoples life priorities - and maybe, just maybe the reason he isn't in camp is related more to his personal motivation just in general... 

 

Its just a thought  

This is what I've thought all along. Its like people are saying "just return to work since it wasn't cancer".  This could be a major life scare. This is a dude who hadn't had surgery until before last year. Now he has a cancer scare - in his head. Lets not forget the other head issues with the nfl - concussions, etc. It really wouldn't surprise me if the guy is contemplating retirement. We've seen a number of high profile players retire early when they realize that the juice of playing another season isn't worth the risk of having life long risks. The cancer thing may be nothing in terms of actual physical risk, but mentally it could be a weight that put a lot of things in perspective. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Peregrine said:

If anyone thinks us signing two tackles that no one else in the league wanted is keeping Trent up at nights, then they are pretty naive.  He knew full well that the team is capable of signing backups off the street and considered that when he decided to hold out.  That isnt a surprise to anyone and it doesnt change anything, and absolutely nothing hes going to do from here on out will be influenced by that.

 

And if he holds out the whole year, then its pretty obvious money doesnt even factor into his decision making.

Penn isn't hot garbage, he's a 3-time pro bowler most recently in 2017, he just got injured early in the 2018 season and the Raiders didn't want to sign a long term deal with him.

 

I  think his age is why he hasn't been signed, if he were 31 he wouldn't be available right now and would be starting for someone. 

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Any scouting reports on how Penn was moving last year or recent injury history? 

He made the pro bowl in 2016 and 2017, got hurt in 2018 after 4 games (groin) and that was it, the Raiders decided not to sign him after moving him to RT because they spent a 1st rd pick on a LT last year.

 

I remember him being a mixed bag in Tampa.

Edited by JSSkinz
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