!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[JoggingGod]

3 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Draft a LT in the 1st next year. Pretty simple

 

Trent is aging and gets hurt a lot now. They need to draft a LT. 

Sure but Haskins needs the reps with or without Trent. Sack rate is half on the QB anyways.

 

https://thebiglead.com/2018/10/19/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat/

[Peregrine]

The issue isnt really with letting Ty go, its with making no real attempt in recent years to address the left side of the Offensive line, that we have known needed to be done.  Instead, year in and year out we draft a RB instead of a top LT or LG.

That and not treating your pro-bowl LT like a valued human.  

If Williams wont play this season, any real front office would realize the season is lost, trade him, immediately cut Norman and Reed, and roll over the extra cap this season to next season.

[desertbeagle85]

42 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Sure but Haskins needs the reps with or without Trent. Sack rate is half on the QB anyways.

 

https://thebiglead.com/2018/10/19/sacks-are-a-quarterback-stat/

 

Sack rate is probably half on the QB when you have a LT. I bet those numbers aren't the same when you don't have one. Mahomes didn't take any reps his 1st. So Haskins doesn't need the reps. 

[JoggingGod]

24 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Sack rate is probably half on the QB when you have a LT. I bet those numbers aren't the same when you don't have one. Mahomes didn't take any reps his 1st. So Haskins doesn't need the reps. 

Yes he does because he has less experience. He needs to go through hardships as a QB to be better prepared and on track for his second. Enough with the boomer mentality.

[@DCGoldPants]

 

With either Trent or somebody really stepping up and proving it for a chunk of the season. That's the only way I put Haskins out there year 1. Reps are important. But if that's practice reps and staying healthy. Patience should be valued here. Don't need him getting Patrick Ramsey'd

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, Peregrine said:

The issue isnt really with letting Ty go, its with making no real attempt in recent years to address the left side of the Offensive line, that we have known needed to be done.  Instead, year in and year out we draft a RB instead of a top LT or LG.

That and not treating your pro-bowl LT like a valued human.  

If Williams wont play this season, any real front office would realize the season is lost, trade him, immediately cut Norman and Reed, and roll over the extra cap this season to next season.

I agree about LG but I don't know if that's the case with tackle. Trent, while missing games hasn't gone down with any major injuries to the point where he missed a season. We drafted Geron as a raw project with time to learn behind Trent and Ty was a more than capable tackle on both ends. I don't really know how much you need to spend on backing up the one player who is considered top 5 at his position and the best on your team. There are or were too many holes on this team to spend high picks on a back-up because you sense the end is near. Hindsight it 20/20 so it's easy to say what we should have done prior to Trent's dispute but at the same time I didn't feel comfortable with who the top shelf LT draftees were, especially with all the other holes we had to fill. 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

real question is why trent is being so passive aggressive.... 

[Jericho]

3 hours ago, Peregrine said:

The issue isnt really with letting Ty go, its with making no real attempt in recent years to address the left side of the Offensive line, that we have known needed to be done.  Instead, year in and year out we draft a RB instead of a top LT or LG.

That and not treating your pro-bowl LT like a valued human.  

If Williams wont play this season, any real front office would realize the season is lost, trade him, immediately cut Norman and Reed, and roll over the extra cap this season to next season.

 

Seems weird to say this when the team just spent a 3rd round pick on a tackle last year and a 4th on a guard this year. There might not be a team in the league that has spent less draft capital on running backs ever, with Guice being one of the highest drafted RBs in team history as a late 2nd rounder.

[Peregrine]

53 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

Seems weird to say this when the team just spent a 3rd round pick on a tackle last year and a 4th on a guard this year. There might not be a team in the league that has spent less draft capital on running backs ever, with Guice being one of the highest drafted RBs in team history as a late 2nd rounder.

Seems weird to say that, when the team just spent 5 years in a row drafting a RB before drafting an offensive linemen.  In that time, they have drafted 4 RBs in the first 4 rounds, and have invested more in the RB position than any other team.  They are also one of the lower teams in the league in draft capital spent on linemen in the first 2, or first 3 rounds of the draft.

[Malapropismic Depository]

4 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

real question is why trent is being so passive aggressive.... 

 

You think he should use the fist instead of the palms ?

 

 

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, Jericho said:

 

Seems weird to say this when the team just spent a 3rd round pick on a tackle last year and a 4th on a guard this year. There might not be a team in the league that has spent less draft capital on running backs ever, with Guice being one of the highest drafted RBs in team history as a late 2nd rounder.

Well Guice was touted as a first but some bogus crap at the combine dropped his stock. Love was also touted as a first rounder if it weren’t for the injury. I’d much rather take my chances on low risk high reward backs than waste a first on basically the same thing.

[Conn]

5 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

real question is why trent is being so passive aggressive.... 

 

What is passive-aggressive about communicating with the team through your agent and following through on your threat to hold out? Would you prefer he hold pressers while doing situps in his driveway like T.O.? Put out a video on twitter where he punches a scarecrow that looks like Bruce Allen? What exactly would be a non-passive-aggressive way to go about this in your opinion? 

[RandyHolt]

It's petty but think Bruce and Jay saying they expected Trent to show up seemed... I dunno, shallow.  It's ok to talk honestly about your best player that has no intention of showing up in what will be a media crazed topic going forward no matter how they spin it.  It just kind of kicks off the media season with deception. Jay is usually honest so he will be crying at the podium sooner than later. Of course, we won't hear another peep from Bruce until senior day 2020, when he does an interview with a tiny local radio station from Vine Grove Kentucky.

 

Trent's Possible Demand(s)

Guarantee his Existing Contract

Contract Extension

Pay Raise

Replace team doctor(s)

Trade Me

Cut Geron

 

My best guess at his stance: No more medical risks will be taken by Trent without a guaranteed contract. If that won't happen, then he is happy to sit out. If he does, than that is the ultimate proof that it is not about mo money

 

No more dirty unkempt helmets and inevitable additional injuries until his existing contract is guaranteed.  Trent is obviously bent and this could be more about other issues he has with the team (fumbling Kirk being a big one IMO), and the med issue is the straw that broke the camels back.  Dare I think if he was buds with Marion Foster, that his cut on the eve of camp does not help our situation. 

 

If this is going to be resolved I see a 3 year fully guaranteed contract with slight raise. 

[Jericho]

8 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Seems weird to say that, when the team just spent 5 years in a row drafting a RB before drafting an offensive linemen.  In that time, they have drafted 4 RBs in the first 4 rounds, and have invested more in the RB position than any other team.  They are also one of the lower teams in the league in draft capital spent on linemen in the first 2, or first 3 rounds of the draft.

 

Not really. While it is true the team has used one pick on a running back each of the last five years, the team has spent a 2nd, a 3rd, two 4ths, and a 7th rounder on running backs. I'd point out both the 2nd and 3rd round picks were right at the bottom of the round (Matt Jones was pick 96, Derrius Guice was pick 59). It's important in terms of valuing the picks. If you look at the draft value chart (which I concede there are different draft charts and all are imperfect), the combined value of the 5 picks was basically the same as using a high second round pick.

 

The Redskins also didn't pick a RB before an OL every year, as their first round pick in 2015 was Brandon Scherff. Scherff alone was far more draft capital on offensive line than all the running backs combined. But about a factor of three. But Arie Kouandjio was taken 17 picks after Matt Jones, Geron Christian was taken 15 picks after Derrius Guice, and Wes Martin was taken 19 picks after Bryce Love. Given where these guys were taken in the draft, the difference in 20 picks or less is pretty small in terms of draft capital.

 

Basically any team that has taken a first round pick on a running back in the last 5 years has spent more draft capital than the Redskins at the position. This list would include: St. Louis, San Diego, Jacksonville, Dallas, Carolina, NY Giants, Seattle, New England, and Oakland. Plus there are a number of teams using decent 2nd round picks that cumulatively beat out the Redskins, such as Tennessee, Minnesota, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, and Detroit. At that point we're basically at half the league without combing through every teams' picks.

 

[SkinsGuy]

49 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Trent's Possible Demand(s)

Guarantee his Existing Contract

Contract Extension

Pay Raise

Replace team doctor(s)

Trade Me

Cut Geron

 

I don't really buy the "Geron" thing.

 

I just don't see an established, 7-time pro bowler feeling threatened a 3rd round project.

 

I don't know about the medical issue, but I can totally see all the contract/money ones.

 

What's the possibility that Williams just doesn't want to go through the rigors of the offseason OTAs/training camp/preseason?

 

I think Trent was kinda known as a lazy player in college. I remember Kiper saying TW would really have to apply himself if he wanted to succeed in the NFL.

 

He certainly has done that. But, now that he has gotten older, are his lazy tendencies coming back out?

 

He certainly wouldn't be the first older veteran to sit out training camp/preseason to avoid the work.

[RandyHolt]

1 hour ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

I don't really buy the "Geron" thing.

 

I just don't see an established, 7-time pro bowler feeling threatened a 3rd round project.

 

I don't know about the medical issue, but I can totally see all the contract/money ones.

 

What's the possibility that Williams just doesn't want to go through the rigors of the offseason OTAs/training camp/preseason?

 

I think Trent was kinda known as a lazy player in college. I remember Kiper saying TW would really have to apply himself if he wanted to succeed in the NFL.

 

He certainly has done that. But, now that he has gotten older, are his lazy tendencies coming back out?

 

He certainly wouldn't be the first older veteran to sit out training camp/preseason to avoid the work.

 

Nice rebuttal.  Know that I added the Geron thing as a joke, as no player has ever held out and demanded a raw project backup that got fork-lifted in his first game, injured in his 2nd, be cut. But I did read here someone said he was miffed at the pick, and I don't think it was a random poster. It may have added to the list of irks brewing inside being a marque player stuck in an elite dysfunctional organization. 

 

Yeah there's a fair chance Trent is just skipping camp, but I don't see the benefit of announcing it weeks in advance.  It wouldn't be the first time a player found a way to skip camp. Dare I think it could benefit him to sit out (coming off what, 3 injuries?). Being in the same offense... sure offset by needing work with a new guard.

 

Trent must have applied himself to become an elite LT, so we should dismiss Kipes concerns there. An older player we see as lazy... he knows his body best. Aging suuuucks and football expedites it.  We put our trust in the players to be their best phyiscally for it benefits them the most.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

16 hours ago, drowland said:

 

The answer is Bruce didn't want to look like a dog for letting Cousins walk and having nothing in place at QB so they jumped way ahead of the free agency period and went full in on trading for Smith.  I don't think I've seen a trade agreed on that early after a season and before the SB was even played.  There was no telling where Keenum would have wanted to sign in FA.  If you were Keenum would you go with Elway or Bruce?  I think most QBs would rather deal with Elway.

 

Exactly...the key to your assessment is that we made moves with only a 1- to 2-year window in mind. We need to stop doing that or we will struggle to ever do better than an occasional bubble-up 9- or 10-win season. 

[theTruthTeller]

10 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

...Trent must have applied himself to become an elite LT, so we should dismiss Kipes concerns there. An older player we see as lazy... he knows his body best. Aging suuuucks and football expedites it.  We put our trust in the players to be their best phyiscally for it benefits them the most.

I fully understand that Trent is at the end of his career and he wants to leverage his current status as a top LT to pick up a season or two at a decent salary.  I also understand that players Trent's age don't see the need to take more pounding in training camp, especially when they won't be playing in preseason games.

 

What I don't understand is why he is not at training camp.  He wasn't going to be practicing anyway.  Trent can get what he wants without embarrassing the team in public.

[RandyHolt]

8 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

I fully understand that Trent is at the end of his career and he wants to leverage his current status as a top LT to pick up a season or two at a decent salary.  I also understand that players Trent's age don't see the need to take more pounding in training camp, especially when they won't be playing in preseason games.

 

What I don't understand is why he is not at training camp.  He wasn't going to be practicing anyway.  Trent can get what he wants without embarrassing the team in public.

 

It is for that reason, that I think its not about MORE money. It's more about wanting guaranteed money, or, he truly has a beef with team - just my personal theory. He seems a bit of a bird of a different feather. Didn't he make all his fellow OL vegan?  It's not often we see players slap another after a game.

 

Another theory of mine is that he and Kirk were tight. If true Kirk taking a stand for moar guaranteed money may have influenced him. Lastly, Trent likely wants a superbowl. In his mind letting Kirk slip away makes him bitter, specifically towards Bruce, as he goes back to square 1 with no bowl ready QB.

 

Again these are all just my theories. Sadly we may have lots of time to hash through them all before this gets resolved. Pun unintended.

[skinsfan93]

Is Trent a vital player to the team? Sure. Is he irreplaceable? No. 

 

Yes Trent is a top tier tackle in the game and one of my fav players but it’s all about next man up. Gerron or Flowers will need to step it up and if they don’t then hopefully there’s a plan B. I for one am not happy the disruption this causes on preseason and hopefully it doesn’t take much for him to come to camp. 

 

Cmon Trent get your ass to camp!

[Unbias]

4 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said:

I fully understand that Trent is at the end of his career and he wants to leverage his current status as a top LT to pick up a season or two at a decent salary.  I also understand that players Trent's age don't see the need to take more pounding in training camp, especially when they won't be playing in preseason games.

 

What I don't understand is why he is not at training camp.  He wasn't going to be practicing anyway.  Trent can get what he wants without embarrassing the team in public.

 

Well it appears his side and Allen talked and Allen knows where he stands (per Allen). From those discussions I'm assuming Trent's side is not happy with the progress, so they are using whatever leverage they have. 

 

I don't think this really embarrasses the team much. It is just the business side of the sport. What would hurt is if the two sides cannot come to an agreement and he's not on the roster. As injured and expensive as he's been there's a massive drop off in the LT position. Having play the Giants twice a year it's comical thinking Flowers might be our starting LT if Trent isn't there. 

[Alexa]

We need to trade him. He doesn't want to be here.  If he doesn't play for us it's going to be a long year on offense. But jeez don't put Flowers out there. The guy isn't an NFL player. Why are they messing around with such a poor player?  What a joke.. 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

It is for that reason, that I think its not about MORE money. It's more about wanting guaranteed money, or, he truly has a beef with team - just my personal theory. He seems a bit of a bird of a different feather. Didn't he make all his fellow OL vegan?  It's not often we see players slap another after a game.

 

Hoping it’s more guaranteed money wanted, but attempting to leverage his situation like former Steeler players wouldn’t surprise me. Yuck!

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Another theory of mine is that he and Kirk were tight. If true Kirk taking a stand for moar guaranteed money may have influenced him. Lastly, Trent likely wants a superbowl. In his mind letting Kirk slip away makes him bitter, specifically towards Bruce, as he goes back to square 1 with no bowl ready QB.

 

A reeeeeeaaach to say the least. Williams seems to be cut from a much different cloth. From outsider perspective. Lol

 

Not sure Kirk had any friends on roster. Another reeeeeeaaach on my part.

 

 

[Hooper]

Could be Trent just knows this is a dumpster fire of an organization and is sick of being a good soldier. Can't really blame him. Ten years in, I'm sure he wants to know what it's like to play for a well-run franchise. I mean, is that too much to ask?

[evmiii]

Trents level of participation at camp would be extremely limited at best.  If he is quasi staying in shape it will all be OK.  RELAX, the sky is not falling.