Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

He has been paid 52.5 million of his 66 million contract already. Or almost 80% of the total deal he signed. In other words He is scheduled to make about 10% per year of his original contract over the next 2 years. His contract guaranteed him 30 million. He has received almost double that number to this point. 

 

Contract History

Team Contract Type Status Year Signed Yrs Total APY Guarantees Amount Earned % Earned Effective APY
Redskins Drafted Renegotiated 2010 6 $60,000,000 $10,000,000 $26,380,500 $45,902,471 76.5% $9,180,494
Redskins Extension Active 2015 5 $66,000,000 $13,200,000 $30,000,000 $52,489,890 79.5% $13,122,473

 

I am not trying to be an ass here but I am really just not following you.

 

With the response above I am not sure what point you are trying to make becasue it does not support either statement you made. But let's talk about the numbers first. The reason it says about 80% of his extension is that they moved 25% of his previous contract into the extension. He only made 76% of his original contract. That's why they owe him $24M over the next two years. So overall he has made about 78% of his contract - and still has $24M owed him. 

 

But again, what point are you trying to make? He has not received most of his contract money already. He still has $24M due to him. So they could cut him tomorrow and he would lose $24M and there is nothing he can do about it. He will not still receive most of his money due if he is cut. He loses all but $1.7M owed by contract., And his CAP hit is not demonstrably different than his salaries. So neither statement is accurate. 

 

You also did not address the example of the team signing contracts with players and then releasing them with much of their money owed canceled, which they could also do with Trent. Why is it wrong for him to protect himself? Again, if the contract were fully guarantee and he was looking for more money right now, I would be less sympathetic. But the teams have no problem playing hard ball. Why should he not do what's best for himself?  

 

This not directly specifically at you. Just working off the post: 

 

All of you pissed at him, put yourself in his place for just a minute. You have been injured off and on for the last 5 yrs yet given your heart and soul to the team for 10. You have $24M left on your contract but it's not guaranteed. They could cut you and you would get virtually nothing. You just had a major health scare where you at least thought your career might be over. You saw an opportunity to make sure your contract is guaranteed and possibly get a bit more money because the team left themselves open. Would you honestly say, ah WTF, they are good guys. I will just let it ride and hope! 

 

Is this a calculated move to pressure the team and catch them at their most vulnerable? Most likely. But if you were in the same situation would you do the same if you could? Yes, you absolutely would and should! 

 

In the end the players are jut a commodity to the teams. The team does not give a flying ass **** about them once they are not useful anymore (especially this team. talk to ex-players - I have. And it's not pretty.) And forever teams have had all the leverage. Players are trying to even things out. I for one, say get what you can! 

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55 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am not trying to be an ass here but I am really just not following you.

 

With the response above I am not sure what point you are trying to make becasue it does not support either statement you made. But let's talk about the numbers first. The reason it says about 80% of his extension is that they moved 25% of his previous contract into the extension. He only made 76% of his original contract. That's why they owe him $24M over the next two years. So overall he has made about 78% of his contract - and still has $24M owed him. 

 

But again, what point are you trying to make? He has not received most of his contract money already. He still has $24M due to him. So they could cut him tomorrow and he would lose $24M and there is nothing he can do about it. He will not still receive most of his money due if he is cut. He loses all but $1.7M owed by contract., And his CAP hit is not demonstrably different than his salaries. So neither statement is accurate. 

 

You also did not address the example of the team signing contracts with players and then releasing them with much of their money owed canceled, which they could also do with Trent. Why is it wrong for him to protect himself? Again, if the contract were fully guarantee and he was looking for more money right now, I would be less sympathetic. But the teams have no problem playing hard ball. Why should he not do what's best for himself?  

 

This not directly specifically at you. Just working off the post: 

 

All of you pissed at him, put yourself in his place for just a minute. You have been injured off and on for the last 5 yrs yet given your heart and soul to the team for 10. You have $24M left on your contract but it's not guaranteed. They could cut you and you would get virtually nothing. You just had a major health scare where you at least thought your career might be over. You saw an opportunity to make sure your contract is guaranteed and possibly get a bit more money because the team left themselves open. Would you honestly say, ah WTF, they are good guys. I will just let it ride and hope! 

 

Is this a calculated move to pressure the team and catch them at their most vulnerable? Most likely. But if you were in the same situation would you do the same if you could? Yes, you absolutely would and should! 

 

In the end the players are jut a commodity to the teams. The team does not give a flying ass **** about them once they are not useful anymore (especially this team. talk to ex-players - I have. And it's not pretty.) And forever teams have had all the leverage. Players are trying to even things out. I for one, say get what you can! 

youre asking guys that would give their left nut to play any position for the skins that just pays the rent. Give me a few million to do it and Ill be fishing the rest of my life

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Posted (edited)

@goskins10 The point I am trying to make is that Williams has made almost 100 million dollars here. If he didnt like the terms of the contract he should not have signed it in the first place. If his contract was up great. Get all you can get. The numbers I posted are accurate. He has been paid 98 million of the 126 million in his two contracts. He has been a great player when healthy. Unfortunately staying healthy is not one of his strong suits. Add on a suspension for weed and his age and you have a player who hasnt played a full season in 6 years. Then that player has the gall to ask for more money with two years left on his deal? It is pathetic. And he isnt worth another dime IMO.

Edited by clskinsfan
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On 6/7/2019 at 12:25 AM, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

What the **** is wrong with you

 Trent is a hypocrite  its all about ZERO GUARANTEED $$$$$ FOR THE NEXT 2 SEASONS!!! NO ONE can blame medical staff & Trent should not hide injuries as well!

24 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

@goskins10 The point I am trying to make is that Williams has made almost 100 million dollars here. If he didnt like the terms of the contract he should not have signed it in the first place. If his contract was up great. Get all you can get. The numbers I posted are accurate. He has been paid 98 million of the 126 million in his two contracts. He has been a great player when healthy. Unfortunately staying healthy is not one of his strong suits. Add on a suspension for weed and his age and you have a player who hasnt played a full season in 6 years. Then that player has the gall to ask for more money with two years left on his deal? It is pathetic. And he isnt worth another dime IMO.

WELL F.....ING SAID!!!

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Trent should be a man and put an end to all of this nonsense, it has become clear this is strictly about money. He should just come out and say that like so many other players have done but instead he uses the medical staff as an excuse and it creates another circus that only exists in his world (What a great leader LOL). Something I would have hoped Trent wouldn't want to do just because of money. It is pretty pathetic behavior and I think for that if he doesn't want to play on his agreed upon contract then adios. And now we have fans sticking up for this behavior pretty sad. Maybe it is time to allow the young leaders to take over and send a message. On top of it all we haven't won with him in how long?HTTR!!!

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27 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

@goskins10 The point I am trying to make is that Williams has made almost 100 million dollars here. If he didnt like the terms of the contract he should not have signed it in the first place. If his contract was up great. Get all you can get. The numbers I posted are accurate. He has been paid 98 million of the 126 million in his two contracts. He has been a great player when healthy. Unfortunately staying healthy is not one of his strong suits. Add on a suspension for weed and his age and you have a player who hasnt played a full season in 6 years. Then that player has the gall to ask for more money with two years left on his deal? It is pathetic. And he isnt worth another dime IMO.

 

I did not say the numbers were inaccurate. I said your statements around them were inaccurate. You that he would still get his money in bonuses even if he were to be cut. That is not true. He is currently owed $24M left. If he were to be cut he would lose all but $1.7M. You also said the CAP number and his salary are very much different. That also is not accurate and I demonstrated why. 

 

What I don't understand is that it's totally Ok for the teams to end contracts early but the players are **** if they dare ask for renegotiations. Again, they still owe him $24M but could change that without him being able to do anything about it.

 

We still do not know exactly what he wants or what the issue is. Yet many have already decided that he is a POS and the team is what? Completely innocent? This team? This FO?

 

This is not going anywhere. We will have to agree to disagree. 

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I did not say the numbers were inaccurate. I said your statements around them were inaccurate. You that he would still get his money in bonuses even if he were to be cut. That is not true. He is currently owed $24M left. If he were to be cut he would lose all but $1.7M. You also said the CAP number and his salary are very much different. That also is not accurate and I demonstrated why. 

 

What I don't understand is that it's totally Ok for the teams to end contracts early but the players are **** if they dare ask for renegotiations. Again, they still owe him $24M but could change that without him being able to do anything about it.

 

We still do not know exactly what he wants or what the issue is. Yet many have already decided that he is a POS and the team is what? Completely innocent? This team? This FO?

 

This is not going anywhere. We will have to agree to disagree. 

Bottom line Trent signed that deal it's on him & his agent. What kind of leader creates a circus like this? A real leader just says I WANT TO BE PAID, unfortunately Trent has not.........Fans cry when FO sign bad deals but when they work deals to favor the organization they cry as well......HYPOCRITICAL 

Edited by hailmary

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I think funny is timing of his announcement he waited till after free agency and draft to ensure they cant find a replacement he is purely after more money doesn’t want go anywhere other wise would asked for release before free agency

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6 minutes ago, hailmary said:

Bottom line Trent signed that deal it's on him & his agent. What kind of leader creates a circus like this? A real leader just says I WANT TO BE PAID, unfortunately Trent has not.........Fans cry when FO sign bad deals but when they work deals to favor the organization they cry as well......HYPOCRITICAL 

 

So where is the indignation when the team terminates a players contract with years left on it? It goes both ways. Teams signed the contracts they terminate early. And you are wasting all this energy being pissed off and you don't actually know what he wants. It's becoming clear that Trent told the team some time ago there was an issue. So regardless of when the fans found out, the team seems to have known already.

 

I am absolutely done here. How about we wait till we find out exactly what is going on before deciding the best player on the team is a total POS because he dared look out for himself and his family, something every single person here would do. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, cober said:

I think funny is timing of his announcement he waited till after free agency and draft to ensure they cant find a replacement he is purely after more money doesn’t want go anywhere other wise would asked for release before free agency

 

What announcement?  Are you referring to the fact he didn't show up for mandatory team activities?  Should he have done that before there were any?

 

I keep reading this, and the question that I have for everyone who is mad about the timing of this is... When did he inform the team he did not plan to report?  

 

If you don't know the answer to that question, then you don't have an informed opinion on his timing on an announcement that has not even happened.

Edited by Nerm
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1 hour ago, Nerm said:

 

What announcement?  Are you referring to the fact he didn't show up for mandatory team activities?  Should he have done that before there were any?

 

I keep reading this, and the question that I have for everyone who is mad about the timing of this is... When did he inform the team he did not plan to report?  

 

If you don't know the answer to that question, then you don't have an informed opinion on his timing on an announcement that has not even happened.

No one knows but you’d be fooling yourself if you don’t think they would have perhaps made a stronger push to keep Ty here if they knew Williams was going to pull this ****. I honestly don’t think Trent informed the team early on based on how the offseason had gone. I don’t think they would have traded up back into the first for a DE had they known. Or if they had made that move there was a plethora of top notch talent still on the board including Cody Ford, Jawaan Taylor,  Greg Little and Mcgary.

 

If he has a grudge against the medical staff or his own agent for the contract he signed, he’s still under contract be the left tackle of the Washington Redskins. He signed that deal, no one else did. He got all his guaranteed money. It’s a dick move that really shows he doesn’t care all that much about the team.

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, cober said:

I think funny is timing of his announcement he waited till after free agency and draft to ensure they cant find a replacement he is purely after more money doesn’t want go anywhere other wise would asked for release before free agency

 

I'm not convinced it was all about money. By the same token if he had done this before free agency he would have an opportunity to earn much more and a longer contract. At this point in time his options are limited and probably looking at a 1 year deal if he is released (which is not going to happen).  

 

Edited by Darrell Green Fan

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Posted (edited)

I think some may overlook what a cancer scare may do to a person. Football is damaging enough on ones body as it is. We are merely mortal suddenly is a thing to some that go through life as physical specimens.

 

Kirk took a stand against the NFL for their sham non guaranteed contracts and you can bet Trent's non guaranteed salary that he took full notice. Trent knows if he had cancer, the team could have cut him and he would have gotten nothing, oh it wasn't cancer haha sorry we didn't get a biopsy in August, now get to work. In his mind, he is likely thinking "why the hell should I show up, since they downplayed that ****ing thing growing on my ****ing head for all those months. 

 

I can see why he is bent. He knew he can push through all the nagging injuries taking their toll on him, and earn his full salary.  Cancer is a whole another level.

 

Sure, a lack of a guaranteed contract is likely at the root of this holdout (and many other players soon to be disgruntled IMO) but fumbling the cancer scare is what drove him to this. Kirk should have been his agent in 2015, if he wanted to avoid all this.  Kirk probably convinced him to holdout, in a final **** you to Bruce and Dan for their ineptness during his time here.

 

**** cancer. And Trent is joining Kirk in saying **** non guaranteed contracts.  Maybe the villains here, are the agents. Making a ****ing killing getting pre filled out forms signed, and POORLY representing their clients. Players trust the agents, and obviously should not.  Just like they shouldn't trust financial advisors looting them with poor advise to boot. Never a bad time to invest all your money in my friends mansions.   I will take my 10% off the top at signing after a drunk golf outing with Boooooce, i love you man thank you very much.

Edited by RandyHolt
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Ok, just my morning coffee-fueled 2c worth, I admit that I don't really know jack**** about what is happening behind the scenes here but as ever, since it is the Skins, everybody has to go into immediate methhead overdose panic at even the suggestion of....well, anything. Guice gets a papercut? BRUCE BUYS THE WRONG KIND OF PAPER! THE BASTID! Rain washes out practice? Goddam it Snyder didn't pay his weather tax again! There is this chronic underlying strain of jumping to contusions, instantly going for the painful explanation for damn near anything.

 

Trent has been a great player for us, on and off the field, and I am not going to be the one to kick him overboard. The FO knows his value unless they are so stupid they might forget to breathe in their sleep, so this will get resolved without any of the signature hair pulling and teeth gnashing that the fanbase has come to be defined by.

 

Sheeesh

 

I honestly wonder sometimes how many fans are cutting themselves in between postings.

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30 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Kirk took a stand against the NFL for their sham non guaranteed contracts and you can bet Trent's non guaranteed salary that he took full notice.

 

 

You act like the NFL is the only league with non-guaranteed contracts. As far as I know, no league requires guaranteed contracts. It's something negotiated on each contract between player and team. It's true the NFL has less guaranteed money per contract than any other sport (though the NBA has seen a significant rise in the last decade of non-guaranteed money, though I'd say more for cap purposes). But its also true the NFL has more injuries and the shortest careers of any league. If teams were mandated to give guaranteed contracts (something I never expect to see happen), players would get a lot shorter deals. Basically whatever guaranteed money the player gets would be the contract, more or less. This isn't an NFL thing (like the evil NFL cracking down on the poor players), just more of a reality thing.

 

As to some of the other comments in the thread, if this is about money (I've seen no specific statements from either Trent or his agent) than Trent is doing what many NFL players do. Trying to leverage the team into a better deal. Does Trent really have leverage though? Many people in this thread seem to think so, but I'm not so sure. Most NFL teams tend to fold in these situations, but if the Redskins did nothing, Trent has no choice but to play or not get paid. And if he doesn't play, I believe his contract may toll anyway (the general idea is he needs to play or at least not be holding out for at least six or more regular season games). So Trent could hold out and report for 6 games each of the next two years. But he'd get less than half the money he's due and he'd be a 32 year old free agent. Or he can play it out and get everything due and be a free agent. The big leverage he has is if the Redskins need Williams now. But, generally speaking, this only works if you're really competing in the next two years. And while I'm sure many in the front office think the team is doing fine, the general consensus seems to be the Redskins won't be very good in 2019 (current betting odds 6.5 wins). So there's less of a need to make "win now" type moves.

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Now there’s a tweet that says this whole thing was a hoax and that the skins were already working on a deal or something before this whole thing got started....? I dont know what to believe anymore 😂😂😂

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3 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Now there’s a tweet that says this whole thing was a hoax and that the skins were already working on a deal or something before this whole thing got started....? I dont know what to believe anymore 😂😂😂

I was just getting caught up and I get to this post... Screw this.

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14 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

You act like the NFL is the only league with non-guaranteed contracts. As far as I know, no league requires guaranteed contracts. It's something negotiated on each contract between player and team. It's true the NFL has less guaranteed money per contract than any other sport (though the NBA has seen a significant rise in the last decade of non-guaranteed money, though I'd say more for cap purposes). But its also true the NFL has more injuries and the shortest careers of any league. If teams were mandated to give guaranteed contracts (something I never expect to see happen), players would get a lot shorter deals. Basically whatever guaranteed money the player gets would be the contract, more or less. This isn't an NFL thing (like the evil NFL cracking down on the poor players), just more of a reality thing.

 

I do not see a problem with this happening. They already get shorter contracts for their security but the team controls them for a longer period of time. Why not let the market dictate? I do think would have to be some CAP allowances. The NFL could go to soft CAPs instead of the hard CAP system now. But either way, signing players for the term you actually plan to pay them would make things better overall. Would some teams get caught in some bad contracts? Sure. But they do that now.  The second sentence bolded is already the way it is. 

 

I agree 100% fully guaranteed contracts with the CAP system is not tenable. But that does not mean it can't be changed. If the players and owners were smart they would address this in the next CBA and cut off the impending contract/players issue. It's likely part of why the players are already preparing to not play foot for at least a year. 

 

14 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

As to some of the other comments in the thread, if this is about money (I've seen no specific statements from either Trent or his agent) than Trent is doing what many NFL players do. Trying to leverage the team into a better deal. Does Trent really have leverage though? Many people in this thread seem to think so, but I'm not so sure. Most NFL teams tend to fold in these situations, but if the Redskins did nothing, Trent has no choice but to play or not get paid. And if he doesn't play, I believe his contract may toll anyway (the general idea is he needs to play or at least not be holding out for at least six or more regular season games). So Trent could hold out and report for 6 games each of the next two years. But he'd get less than half the money he's due and he'd be a 32 year old free agent. Or he can play it out and get everything due and be a free agent. The big leverage he has is if the Redskins need Williams now. But, generally speaking, this only works if you're really competing in the next two years. And while I'm sure many in the front office think the team is doing fine, the general consensus seems to be the Redskins won't be very good in 2019 (current betting odds 6.5 wins). So there's less of a need to make "win now" type moves.

 

I basically agree here that he does not have as much leverage as some may think. But he does have some leverage, and it's not insignificant. If he is asking for something reasonable - guarantee the last two yrs and with a commitment to have an outside group evaluate the medical staff (I think they already have this in process, but not 100% certain,) then do it and we all move on. If he is asking for a huge raise - some kind of 5 yr, $80M contract with $50M in guarantees - I am with you. Call his bluff. Will he really sit out? Even for 10 games? It's in both the teams and Trent's interest to work this out. I think they will. It may linger into training camp but I think they work it out and everyone kisses and makes up. But I tend to be optimistic. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Now there’s a tweet that says this whole thing was a hoax and that the skins were already working on a deal or something before this whole thing got started....? I dont know what to believe anymore 😂😂😂

 

Yea, Bruce implied this already. He said he talked to Trent, knew the truth but was keeping his conversation between the two of them private. I believe in the end many people are going to regret the extreme positions they took as the reality is going to be somewhere in the middle. But I could be wrong.  Would not be the first time. 

 

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Posted (edited)

This back and forth over who we should be upset for in contract disputes is ridiculous. 

 

The bottom line is that when a player holds out he is not honoring the contract he signed but when a team releases a player they are.

 

When a contract is signed there are a certain level of guarantees and that is the real contract and something the team CANNOT get out of, the rest is something you to think long and hard about before signing and apparently that's what Trent didn't do long enough. 

 

If teams could just dump contracts Alex Smith would be officially retired right now.

 

Edited by redskinss

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32 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

You act like the NFL is the only league with non-guaranteed contracts....

 

Good post

 

As far as leverage, who needs what more. Does Trent need 13M, or do we need a LT to protect our shiny new QB?

 

If Trent forgoes 13M, you know what he gets? One less year of physical pounding on his lets call it somewhat fragile aging body. Time to heal up, and return for his final year and give his all to play for his NEXT contract.  He may actually come out net positive financially, if his next contract is higher from getting healthier.  It is not a lose lose for Trent in the least.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Good post

 

As far as leverage, who needs what more. Does Trent need 13M, or do we need a LT to protect our shiny new QB?

 

If Trent forgoes 13M, you know what he gets? One less year of physical pounding on his lets call it somewhat fragile aging body. Time to heal up, and return for his final year and give his all to play for his NEXT contract.  He may actually come out net positive financially, if his next contract is higher from getting healthier.  It is not a lose lose for Trent in the least.

If the skins were willing to play this year without Trent then they have all the leverage.

He'd have to sit out two years and forfeit 28 million in salary to pull it off.

No way in hell at 33 years old after sitting out two years does trent Williams not only get a top level contract but also enough to offset the loss of 28 million in salary. 

 

If he decides it's more about resting his body than money then we could be screwed, but if its strictly about money  Trent has very little leverage beyond the Redskins just straight up caving in to his demands before this season starts.

Edited by redskinss
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4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

This back and forth over who we should be upset for in contract disputes is ridiculous. 

 

The bottom line is that when a player holds out he is not honoring the contract he signed but when a team releases a player they are.

 

When a contract is signed there are a certain level of guarantees and that is the real contract and something the team CANNOT get out of the rest is something you to think long and hard about before signing and apparently that's what trent didn't do long enough. 

 

If teams could just dump contracts Alex Smith would be officially retired right now.

 

 

This is an over simplification and ignores that just because things have always done a certain way they should stay that way. 

 

You are right, the contract as written provides the team the ability to legally release a player before the contract is over. Players are in the process of attempting to changing that since the current system gives teams too much control. But that is not going to happen immediately. It takes time and people pushing the envelope. 

 

 

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Just now, goskins10 said:

 

This is an over simplification and ignores that just because things have always done a certain way they should stay that way. 

 

You are right, the contract as written provides the team the ability to legally release a player before the contract is over. Players are in the process of attempting to changing that since the current system gives teams too much control. But that is not going to happen immediately. It takes time and people pushing the envelope. 

 

 

That's true and something that should be done at the bargaining table not on an individual basis.

 

Its one of the reasons players are trying to tie contracts to the cap.

 

I don't get upset if a player without a contract tries to get more than he's worth that's something they should all try and I wont be pissed at the players if there's a work stoppage because that's what they need to do to fix these problems but I dont usually empathize with a players current contract because they knew (or at least should have) what they were signing..

 

Rookie contracts are a different story for me, they got screwed so bad in the new CBA that I do feel bad for some of those guys at times when they grossly outplay their contracts.

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8 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Rookie contracts are a different story for me, they got screwed so bad in the new CBA that I do feel bad for some of those guys at times when they grossly outplay their contracts.

 

I can get on board with this part for sure. Putting rookies on a scale is pure robbery to them. I am actually shocked they havent teamed up and sued over it in all honesty. The league basically colluded to keep rookie salaries low. On top of that if you are a first rounder the team gets a 5th year option on you. Now that 5th year is more in line with what a fair salary should be. But considering the average NFL career is 3 seasons. It basically prevents the vast majority of them from ever testing the market and finding out what they are really worth.

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