Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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Posted (edited)

it was discussed previous, on why or why not should the front office speak on the matter.

 

I feel like by not addressing the rumors or claims made by Trent, Bruce and friends by inaction are validating Trent's allegations of ineptness by the medical team. There is just a time the leaders have to lead, so that the others can follow. Let some fans find comfort that the situation is being addressed, have a means of digesting the unworldly bizarre things we hear about out of Redskins Park.

 

Bruce could speak out and say that the medical profession can be complex and if there were any errors made with Trent he will address them head on, and apologize if any mistakes were made, promise to do our best in the future, and walk away from the podium.  Grab the bull by the horns, instead of just ignoring the problem and letting the issue stew inside everyone's mind, everyone forming their own opinions on every aspect of it, almost letting the base split into Trent vs Team camps.

 

Instead, all we heard was that we put in a waiver claim on a T. And failed, of course.  Good one, Bruce.  With no PR image left to defend, what's the point in bothering. You guys see my draft?

Edited by RandyHolt

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We all knew going into the season with Christian and Flowers as your backup OTs was a terrible plan. Now it looks like there is a possibility that it may destroy the season before it even begins.  

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I'd be ok if they bumped his deal out another year or two to give him some guaranteed money and some game based additional if he completed an entire season.  But what I wouldn't do is give him top lt in the game money.  Playing consistently only 12-13 games a season IMO automatically means he's not the top lt regardless of performance when on the field.

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4 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

**LT is a uniquely difficult position to find, especially a budding hall of Famer. Special value is assigned to these dudes.**

 

 

True or false, Offensive lineman overall last longer than WRs? Also, there primes are incredibly longer than fast twitch required positions. 

 

Positions in the trenches have high value for strength and size, this doesn’t decline in 30s, it actually increases and large part why big guys last longer than twitch related positions. Especially physical freaks like Trent Williams. 

 

Think Jason Peters! 

 

 

 

I get the point of extra risk is involved with signing older players, but hall of fame talents carry less risk losing abilities athletically, due to their initial ceiling being so high. 

 

Of course he’ll be on a decline in some ways athletically, this is true for any athlete at age 31, correct? My belief is his legs will be fine to play at a high level in his mid 30s. 

 

 

Why?

 

Joe Staley 34

Whitworth 37

Peters 37 

Duane Brown 33

 

Nate Solder— Not even in the same class as Williams signed a 4 year 62 million dollar deal at the age of 30.

 

**Also, let me know when WRs are getting paid like these big heavy Olineman in their mid 30s. Big dudes last longer. 

 

 

If they feel he’s the best player on the team—as players, coaches and FO staff have said at times, then YES, you work to make him happy!

 

You appear to not feel he’s playing at a high level and wont have value at age 34 or 35, that’s fine. 

 

 

I prefer the Skins manage dollars around their studs and I believe Trent is elite and will continue to be a special talent into his mid 30s, you don’t, cool. 

 

Elite Players have tilted the tables financially in the NFLs current market. Adapt. Let’s be clear, I was on the opposite side of paying Kirk, so it’s just opinion. 

 

**He’ll just have turned 33 when current deal is done. 

 

 

This is the reality is all I’m saying. Players don’t get wrapped up in other’s business. I get not liking it as a fan and in some situations I’m right there with this kind of fandom. I get it. 

 

LTs are difficult to find and are extra value in comparison to all other positions outside of QB and an elite pass rusher. 

So it seems o me that we began our conversation with you telling me my assessment lacked perspective because you felt i was not taking the individual player into account when making a statement about big guys over 30... and now we are to the point where you are comparing Trent to other over-30s ... while taking absolutely no stock in the individuals other than their age.

Of all of those guys, the only one with as consistent a track record of missing games as Williams is Brown. The rest of those names have track records of playing entire seasons over th last six years. Peters had a single season in which most was lost to a knee, in 2017. Other than that, 2 games. 

Solder missed a season to a knee, and has no other seasons in which he has missed more than one game (2 of them.) this does not compare.. except for age.


and sorry, but investing millions and unbalancing your cap because you can make a comparison to one player, Brown, is ridiculous.

 

It lacks perspective.

 

~Bang

 

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18 minutes ago, Bang said:

So it seems o me that we began our conversation with you telling me my assessment lacked perspective because you felt i was not taking the individual player into account when making a statement about big guys over 30... and now we are to the point where you are comparing Trent to other over-30s ... while taking absolutely no stock in the individuals other than their age.

Of all of those guys, the only one with as consistent a track record of missing games as Williams is Brown. The rest of those names have track records of playing entire seasons over th last six years. Peters had a single season in which most was lost to a knee, in 2017. Other than that, 2 games. 

Solder missed a season to a knee, and has no other seasons in which he has missed more than one game (2 of them.) this does not compare.. except for age.


and sorry, but investing millions and unbalancing your cap because you can make a comparison to one player, Brown, is ridiculous.

 

It lacks perspective.

 

~Bang

 

 

I agree with what you wrote here. He is going to 31 and has not played a full season since 2013. And finding a few anecdotal examples does not make the case. He is aging and has had injury histories. The team is right to be cautious. 

 

But in fairness you are making a few assumptions that may lack perspective also. 

 

1. We do not know what kind of contract he is looking for. He has $23.5M left on his current contract that is already built in but only about $2M is guaranteed. If you made it a 4 yr deal and made the next two guaranteed, that would be good for both him and the team without having any significant impact on the CAP. If he is looking for a huge payday, like a completely new deal with some $45M or $50M guaranteed, then I agree. But your reaction reads as if you know he wants a massive deal when we really do not know what the details are. 

 

2. You have stated you do not believe this has anything to do with the medical staff - I believe your exact comment was you "don't believe it for a minute". That's sounds pretty definitive to me. I find this counter to your normal level headed reasoning. You are saying that you cannot see any scenario where a guy that has been here for 10 yrs, given everything he has to the team, played injured, and had a lot of interaction with the medical staff finally saying enough is enough? And that he is just being selfish and greedy? Sorry, I just do not buy that. I believe it's somewhere in the middle. He has some major concerns about the medical staff and the only way to make the team pay attention is to make it about money. And for all we know he has been telling the team he has issues for months, maybe years and has now (meaning this recent off-season) had enough. 

 

But let's just for a minute say it's all about money. That is nothing more than a ploy to get more money. Isn't it possible that after this recent scare he became much more aware of his mortality and decided he needed to be a little more selfish to make sure he gets what his value is to the team? What better way to let them know than by doing at an inopportune time for the FO. Play hardball with the team. The team certainly would have no problem throwing him out like yesterdays trash if he were not so talented. It's a brutal business. The owners have no problem treating these guys like property. So the players should have no problem leveraging every advantage they have. 

 

And don't think the guys in the locker room are pissed at him either way. They are cheering him on. If it's about money it will help them. If it's about medical it will help them in the long run also. 

 

As a fan - yes it kind of sucks as the oline may be a problem - likely will be a problem. But still, who's fault is that? Trent has had injury issues for 5 yrs. How much longer were they going to wait? It's the same problem with this FO. They are just not forward enough thinking. A better organization may struggle a little but this type of power play by a major player would not potentially disrupt the entire season like this could. 

 

Either way, from what I have seen from both over the years, I am much more willing to give Trent the benefit of the doubt before the team. But still I would like to see the details. 

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44 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

And don't think the guys in the locker room are pissed at him either way. They are cheering him on. If it's about money it will help them. If it's about medical it will help them in the long run also. 

 

 

I really don't see how this would help his teammates in any way. As long as there is a salary cap, every dollar he wins in one someone else loses. And it certainly doesn't help his teammates when precedents get set that players don't honor their contractual obligations. Owners will simply become gunshy about offering longer term contracts and put the players on a bunch of one year prove-it deals.  If he was doing some sort of unselfish Robin Hooding for the benefit of all players, we'd be hearing more from him and his agent.

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1 minute ago, bowhunter said:

I really don't see how this would help his teammates in any way. As long as there is a salary cap, every dollar he wins in one someone else loses. And it certainly doesn't help his teammates when precedents get set that players don't honor their contractual obligations. Owners will simply become gunshy about offering longer term contracts and put the players on a bunch of one year prove-it deals.  If he was doing some sort of unselfish Robin Hooding for the benefit of all players, we'd be hearing more from him and his agent.


No one said anything about some altruistic Robin Hood thing. That's just an exaggeration to try and make some point against one that is not being made. You decide to jump to some extreme meaning of a very minor part of the entire comment. It's not at all what I was saying. But I will clarify. 

 

Is he doing this as some unselfish act of kindness? Of course not. He is looking out for himself. What I was saying is that there is likely a secondary benefit and that most other players are not mad at him. Not everyone will like it but most will, or at least should. All players are rooting for others to get what they can as it does have at least some what of a trickle down effect. Will it help them tremendously? Of course not. But it will not hurt them either and again, it will likely have some secondary long term benefits. The CAP is going up every year. Every time a player gets more money it helps them all to varying degrees.

 

And as I said before - that was only one part of this. There is also the medical staff concerns - which is what I was much more referring to when I said it would benefit the players. If there is truly a problem and he can get them to make positive changes it will only help the other players. Again, is this some altruistic effort? of course not. He is and should be looking out for himself. But it could very easily have a positive impact for other players. 

 

The bold? Players have been asking for deals to be redone forever, and many have gotten them redone. This is not some new thing that Trent just decided to do. Also, teams have been ****ing players over since the time they started paying them. This changes nothing in a bad way for the players. If anything it gets them closer to fully guaranteed contracts like baseball and basketball. 

 

Just to be clear, I made no statements declaring Trent is doing this out of some sort of sense of responsibility other than to look out for his best interests. You jumped to th conclusion to try and make some point that was not there. My point is and has been, he has every right to do so and if there are truly issues with the medical staff the team deserves everything they get. In fact I agreed with someone else who said this was quite calculated to have maximum impact. I for one have no problem with that. 

 

I really do not understand how people can defend the team and have so much animosity to the players who actually make plays while the teams are so hard core when dealing with players salaries. The players need to look out for themselves. The teams have no problem with kicking them to the curb the minute they are not useful. So the players need yto get what they can when they have the leverage. 

 

Last but not least, if the team had been smart about this, they would not be here anyway. They chose not to address the LT position in a meaningful way other than a 3rd draft pick last yr that also was injured. Once they decide to Nseke go (which I agreed with BTW), they should have done something more this off season to address T. So they left themselves open and Trent is making them pay. And that's assuming he is just doing this for more money- which I do not believe is the full motivation here. 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with what you wrote here. He is going to 31 and has not played a full season since 2013. And finding a few anecdotal examples does not make the case. He is aging and has had injury histories. The team is right to be cautious. 

 

But in fairness you are making a few assumptions that may lack perspective also. 

 

1. We do not know what kind of contract he is looking for. He has $23.5M left on his current contract that is already built in but only about $2M is guaranteed. If you made it a 4 yr deal and made the next two guaranteed, that would be good for both him and the team without having any significant impact on the CAP. If he is looking for a huge payday, like a completely new deal with some $45M or $50M guaranteed, then I agree. But your reaction reads as if you know he wants a massive deal when we really do not know what the details are. 

 

2. You have stated you do not believe this has anything to do with the medical staff - I believe your exact comment was you "don't believe it for a minute". That's sounds pretty definitive to me. I find this counter to your normal level headed reasoning. You are saying that you cannot see any scenario where a guy that has been here for 10 yrs, given everything he has to the team, played injured, and had a lot of interaction with the medical staff finally saying enough is enough? And that he is just being selfish and greedy? Sorry, I just do not buy that. I believe it's somewhere in the middle. He has some major concerns about the medical staff and the only way to make the team pay attention is to make it about money. And for all we know he has been telling the team he has issues for months, maybe years and has now (meaning this recent off-season) had enough. 

 

But let's just for a minute say it's all about money. That is nothing more than a ploy to get more money. Isn't it possible that after this recent scare he became much more aware of his mortality and decided he needed to be a little more selfish to make sure he gets what his value is to the team? What better way to let them know than by doing at an inopportune time for the FO. Play hardball with the team. The team certainly would have no problem throwing him out like yesterdays trash if he were not so talented. It's a brutal business. The owners have no problem treating these guys like property. So the players should have no problem leveraging every advantage they have. 

 

And don't think the guys in the locker room are pissed at him either way. They are cheering him on. If it's about money it will help them. If it's about medical it will help them in the long run also. 

 

As a fan - yes it kind of sucks as the oline may be a problem - likely will be a problem. But still, who's fault is that? Trent has had injury issues for 5 yrs. How much longer were they going to wait? It's the same problem with this FO. They are just not forward enough thinking. A better organization may struggle a little but this type of power play by a major player would not potentially disrupt the entire season like this could. 

 

Either way, from what I have seen from both over the years, I am much more willing to give Trent the benefit of the doubt before the team. But still I would like to see the details. 

"Level headed" :D we talking about the same me here?
And no, i don't buy the medical staff angle, i think it's a combination of some half truth, maybe a factor, and Jason laCanfora has suggested it is bigger.. Wit33 was right on this when he said to me earlier on in our conversation that a lot of what we're basing off of is conjecture.

But, I tend to fall back on the word od deion, and several others..  when they say it ain't the money, it's the money.

How much he wants, IF he wants more money.. either way, the timing stinks, and IMO is timed to specifically cause a panic, while leaving time before training camp to get the deal completed.

 

As to some other points.. if a player in the NFL has an issue with the training staff doing patch up so he can play...  maybe they should recognize that is what they do, and have always done.  If he has an issue with playing hurt, he's done it enough that he could have been fed up much sooner. i don't think he was forced to play when he didn't want to. It's one of the things that have endeared him o us. We (could) count on him for as much as he could give.


BUT, as i read a few pages back in the thread. this medical staff issue (if it is) apparently stems from them mis-diagnosing his malignant growth as "NFL players all get bumps on their heads"..   i am at a loss for words.

1. they are a sports team training staff, not oncologists or any other sort of specialist that should or would be able to treat or even test for malignant tumors. (Maybe someone knows different on this? Are they qualified in this area?)

2. because their jobs are to handle sprains, bones, ligaments, and to prep players to play, they shouldn't even be expected to be the player's personal physicians beyond their football related health.

3..  this was February..   and we find out of his discontent at minicamp 4 months later... when it can be demonstrated thru the inadequate backups just how bad it could be without Trent.

4. I don't know why people expect me to be OK with a guy playing hardball at this juncture of an offseason in which we could be making strides towards being better all around. It's like being OK with a guy who robs a bank because the door is open. it's bad form, it harms the team, and in a sense it is a betrayal. 

 

As to benefits of the doubt... a contract stick up is a contract stick up is a contract stick up. Until i see otherwise, that is what i think it is. 

According to rumors, since it isn't about the money, he won't take any extension with more money to stay here. According to what i've read, it's about principal.

So if he does accept more..   then **** him twice, as far as I'm concerned. Because then deion's ords are true again. "when they say it isn't about the money, it's about the money".

And using threats to our rookie, to the future of the franchise to corner them into giving him more.. I'm supposed to respect that, be happy with it?
 

Not likely. I don't like liars, for one, and especially since that would indicate that he is using the team's faith and trust that they placed IN HIM against them.

Yeah, no respect for that.

How to lose fans after a Hall of Fame career in one easy step.

 

~Bang

Edited by Bang
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The honoring of a contract is a two way street. How much would the FO love to no longer honor Alex Smiths contract?? In that situation, we would have a ton of money free to pay for some significant OL upgrades. I love big Trent for the demeanor, ability, and leadership he provides for the team. He willingly signed a very lucrative deal, and the NFL is truly a business.  Lets be honest here, it's not like he's being vastly underpaid either. I think the vast majority of us here would be supportive if he was paid a lower tier salary.

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1 hour ago, bowhunter said:

The honoring of a contract is a two way street. How much would the FO love to no longer honor Alex Smiths contract?? In that situation, we would have a ton of money free to pay for some significant OL upgrades. I love big Trent for the demeanor, ability, and leadership he provides for the team. He willingly signed a very lucrative deal, and the NFL is truly a business.  Lets be honest here, it's not like he's being vastly underpaid either. I think the vast majority of us here would be supportive if he was paid a lower tier salary.

 

Just want to point that the team absolutely does not have to honor Smith’s contract.  We could cut him and void the deal today.

 

We are going to honor it this year to avoid a $42M dead cap hit.

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1 hour ago, Bang said:

"Level headed" :D we talking about the same me here?

I may have to rethink this... Lol  JK

 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:


And no, i don't buy the medical staff angle, i think it's a combination of some half truth, maybe a factor, and Jason laCanfora has suggested it is bigger.. Wit33 was right on this when he said to me earlier on in our conversation that a lot of what we're basing off of is conjecture.

 

Agreed - it's all conjecture. But again I lean towards the guy who has been pretty much a stand-up guy from day one bs the FO that has anything but stand-up from day one of dan's ownership. But to each thier own. None of us know. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

But, I tend to fall back on the word od deion, and several others..  when they say it ain't the money, it's the money.

How much he wants, IF he wants more money.. either way, the timing stinks, and IMO is timed to specifically cause a panic, while leaving time before training camp to get the deal completed.

 

I agree this was the decision and process. The difference is I do not have a problem with it. But much of that is because I believe that this not just about money. That does nto mean money will not make it go away. But i do think there is a medical staff component to this. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

 

As to some other points.. if a player in the NFL has an issue with the training staff doing patch up so he can play...  maybe they should recognize that is what they do, and have always done.  If he has an issue with playing hurt, he's done it enough that he could have been fed up much sooner. i don't think he was forced to play when he didn't want to. It's one of the things that have endeared him o us. We (could) count on him for as much as he could give.

 

 

I don't think he was forced to play when he didn't want to either. I do get being in the moment and something not bothering you but then when you have time to think about, you get pissed. And I seriously doubt it jsut this one incident. I expect we will find out it was a build up over time. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

BUT, as i read a few pages back in the thread. this medical staff issue (if it is) apparently stems from them mis-diagnosing his malignant growth as "NFL players all get bumps on their heads"..   i am at a loss for words.

1. they are a sports team training staff, not oncologists or any other sort of specialist that should or would be able to treat or even test for malignant tumors. (Maybe someone knows different on this? Are they qualified in this area?)

2. because their jobs are to handle sprains, bones, ligaments, and to prep players to play, they shouldn't even be expected to be the player's personal physicians beyond their football related health.

3..  this was February..   and we find out of his discontent at minicamp 4 months later... when it can be demonstrated thru the inadequate backups just how bad it could be without Trent.

4. I don't know why people expect me to be OK with a guy playing hardball at this juncture of an offseason in which we could be making strides towards being better all around. It's like being OK with a guy who robs a bank because the door is open. it's bad form, it harms the team, and in a sense it is a betrayal. 

 

He definitely could have and probably should have gone to another doctor. They should have sent him to another doctor. And maybe they did and he ignoring them. If so, that's on him. 

 

So you have a problem with him playing hard ball. Do you have a problem with the team playing hardball with players? When they release them with years left on their contracts? Don't they play hard ball all the time? They release people all the time with years left on contracts. That's not including the contracts we don;t hear about where the tam says they can take a cut in salary or they will not be on  the team anymore.  It's a business. And these guys have to treat like a business and use whatever leverage they have. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

 

As to benefits of the doubt... a contract stick up is a contract stick up is a contract stick up. Until i see otherwise, that is what i think it is. 

According to rumors, since it isn't about the money, he won't take any extension with more money to stay here. According to what i've read, it's about principal.

So if he does accept more..   then **** him twice, as far as I'm concerned. Because then deion's ords are true again. "when they say it isn't about the money, it's about the money".

 

Same things as above. Is it Ok for the team to play hardball with the players? if you are equally outraged by that then fair enough. But it can;t go just one way. Also, and this is something no one seems to want to respond to, would the team be held up if they had done more to be ready for a LT that will be 31 and not played a full season since 2013? Shouldn't they have planned better in case he is truly lost for a season due to injury? Teams play hard ball all the time so it's only fair the players do the same. I have no problem with it. 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

And using threats to our rookie, to the future of the franchise to corner them into giving him more.. I'm supposed to respect that, be happy with it?
 

 

This is a bit overly dramatic. First of all, Trent can;t force them to lay Haskins. And they should not play him unless he is truly ready. Him being ready means he can handle the oline not being awesome. It happens all the time. That is on the coaches not on Trent. He makes no personnel decisions. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bang said:

Not likely. I don't like liars, for one, and especially since that would indicate that he is using the team's faith and trust that they placed IN HIM against them.

Yeah, no respect for that.

How to lose fans after a Hall of Fame career in one easy step.

 

~Bang

 

So again, the team could cut him tomorrow and it would cost them almost nothing and he would be out in the could. So they only placed a little faith in him. If they placed a lot of faith in him, they would have guaranteed the entire contract, which is what they should do anyway. Then i could see being pissed a little more because then it has to be about more money. Right now he in only guaranteed about $2M. 

 

This really comes down to what is the real issue and what does he really want. I am looking forward to hearing all the details so we can stop the conjecture. Until then honestly not going to be too pissed at either Trent or the team actually - although I tend to lean towards believing Trent. But that's just me. Need to see the facts before committing. 

 

I did find it interesting that Bruce's statement - quoted out of context in here at ES several times - was the he had talked to Trent, knew what the truth was and was letting that conversation stay between them. That just tells me there is more to this than a few $ but that they have an open line of communication and are working things out. Admittedly it's still just conjecture. But that's what I got out of it. 

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Posted (edited)

As to hardball.. it all depends on the situation.

 I am not blanket anything, players should (never) do this,  teams should (never) do that.

it's all individual situations, not every player is the same.

and IF this is a situation of a stick up because of a lack of quality depth, i'll be plenty pissed. Bad form.

And IF he is trying to angle more money for other reasoning, i'd have to see how much because I believe his best years are in his rear-view.

 

A player like LeVeon bell playing hardball..  hey, he's one of the best, so he took his chance and the Steelers didn't accept. I had no problem with either move by either side in something like that.

I wanted the team to sign Cousins,, didn't like their stance.

But, i also tend to believe that no matter what opinion i may have of any of these situations, i don't / can't know every fact involved, and as time has gone by, i've come to believe Kirk is about Kirk, and what he did get paid is too high. I think we've come out of it OK.

 

I also am with you on Bruce's statement. Folks are quick to kill him, but both camps have said mum. So, i'll hold up til i see what is actually going on, and how it all works out.. because now this afternoon i am reading things that suggest that they had known he wouldn't report and that a negotiation was lready ongoing.

so, i m officially now moving into the camp of "Who knows"

 

~Bang

 

 

 

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4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with what you wrote here. He is going to 31 and has not played a full season since 2013. And finding a few anecdotal examples does not make the case. He is aging and has had injury histories. The team is right to be cautious. 

 

As you know, there’s only 31 other LTs to draw from, historically there’s been many as well that play into their mid 30s. I chose to pull from extreme ends of the spectrum of age, Williams is set to turn 31. 

 

**4 guys out of 31 doesn’t seem anecdotal, does it? Mind you, this was 4 guys 34 and above, more exist in their early 30s. LTs are much like great QBs, their staying power is different from other positions. 

 

I hear ya though, Williams carries extra risk and you’d have to be on side of having elite play for 12-14 games on average as having value moving forward.

 

Subjectivity is supreme on this topic. 

 

Quote

 

But in fairness you are making a few assumptions that may lack perspective also. 

 

1. We do not know what kind of contract he is looking for. He has $23.5M left on his current contract that is already built in but only about $2M is guaranteed. If you made it a 4 yr deal and made the next two guaranteed, that would be good for both him and the team without having any significant impact on the CAP. If he is looking for a huge payday, like a completely new deal with some $45M or $50M guaranteed, then I agree. But your reaction reads as if you know he wants a massive deal when we really do not know what the details are. 

 

Agree 100%. 

 

Quote

 

 

 It's the same problem with this FO. They are just not forward enough thinking. A better organization may struggle a little but this type of power play by a major player would not potentially disrupt the entire season like this could. 

 

This right here. No way the FO shouldn’t of been pro active involving the clear consensus best player on your roster. Unless Williams smacked them in the face late with seriousness of his demands. 

 

With that said, time still remains before training camp to get it sorted out.  Though, a bogus trade resulting in a bum starting at LT will not suffice. 

 

Quote

 

Either way, from what I have seen from both over the years, I am much more willing to give Trent the benefit of the doubt before the team. But still I would like to see the details. 

 

I’ve chosen to leave alone the medical stuff, due to unknowns related. 

 

Makes sense, him experiencing a medical scare not related to football and looking at his contract realizing the Skins could release him and he’d lose out on 20 plus million. 

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on the trade front, I think I just thought of an appropriate one.  To Buffalo for Ty and a first rounder

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2 minutes ago, carex said:

on the trade front, I think I just thought of an appropriate one.  To Buffalo for Ty and a first rounder

 

I am sorry but here is no way they give up a player and a 1st rd draft pick for an aging LT with an injury history - especially if he truly is asking for a trade. They would be lucky to get Ty and a 4th or 5th rd pick. Without Ty maybe they give a 2nd. But I don't really think they will trade him. He is under contract. He would have to sit out. They can force his hand. 

 

On a side note - the Bills are starting to look like the Buffalo NY Redskins: 

Trent Murphy

Ty Nseke

Andre Roberts

Lorenzo Alexander

Spencer Long 

 

So on second thought maybe they want Trent more than I am giving credit...  🙂  

 

 

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Too many wild "sources say" articles/tweets on this to know what to think.

 

If it's money, then Trent has the Skins over a barrel and knows it. It's business. He'd be stupid not to use his leverage. They'd cut him in a heartbeat if they wanted.

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On 6/6/2019 at 1:34 PM, Darc Requiem said:

My position is simple. If you are going to complain about players holding out, you need to complain about players getting cut while under contract. If you don't complain about both, you are being a hypocrite.

 

Not true. Players cut still received the majority of their money through bonuses. For example. Trents cap hit is no where near what he will actually be paid this season. And that is the rub. He wants more money THIS year. Again IMO dont sign the damn contract if you are not going to honor it. You dont see these players ****ing when they get that nice 25-30 million dollar signing bonus up front do you?

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6 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not true. Players cut still received the majority of their money through bonuses. For example. Trents cap hit is no where near what he will actually be paid this season. And that is the rub. He wants more money THIS year. Again IMO dont sign the damn contract if you are not going to honor it. You dont see these players ****ing when they get that nice 25-30 million dollar signing bonus up front do you?

 

Trent is (maybe) threatening not to play if he doesn't get more money or a trade. The Redskins have every right to call his bluff, if they want, and not pay him if he sits out.

 

As a fan, I want him on the field this season. His business dealings with the team are his, not mine. It'd be like taking it personally how much a famous actor or musician makes. Not my concern.

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17 minutes ago, profusion said:

 

Trent is (maybe) threatening not to play if he doesn't get more money or a trade. The Redskins have every right to call his bluff, if they want, and not pay him if he sits out.

 

As a fan, I want him on the field this season. His business dealings with the team are his, not mine. It'd be like taking it personally how much a famous actor or musician makes. Not my concern.

 

Famous actors and musicians honor their contracts for that money.

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I haven't visited this thread in a few days, the last page or two is talking about contract/money.......so did new info come out that this is actually back to being about Trent wanting more money/a new contract?

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38 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Not true. Players cut still received the majority of their money through bonuses. For example. Trents cap hit is no where near what he will actually be paid this season. And that is the rub. He wants more money THIS year. Again IMO dont sign the damn contract if you are not going to honor it. You dont see these players ****ing when they get that nice 25-30 million dollar signing bonus up front do you?

 

Ok, normally I can follow you pretty well but this time either I am just not seeing what you are saying or you may be mistaken. 

 

When players get cut they do not get any money that is not guaranteed. And I am not following you on the - when they get cut they still get the majority of their money. That is generally not true and most definitely not true for Trent. His contract is below. It's from overthecap.com. They tend to be pretty reliable.

 

His salary owed is $11M this year and $12.5M for next for $23.5M plus $250k each year for game bonuses for a total of $24M. However, if he gets cut tomorrow, he is only owed about $1.7M. He loses $22.3M and has no recourse for that money, outside signing with another team. Which given the timing is also bad for him just like it's bad for the team. 

 

As for the CAP hits being different - Yes, he received an $8.5M signing bonus in 2015 and an additional $10M in 2016 - this is how they have the interesting prorating. It also includes some from his original contract. So his CAPs hits are roughly $14.7/yr for a total of approx $29.4M - this is just $5.4M different than the salary owed. 

 

So unless there is something I am really missing, I do not see how he gets most of his $24M left on his contract in bonuses. I see him losing $22M.

 

As for Trent's CAP hit being nowhere near his salary - I am not sure which way you are going. If you are saying his CAP is much lower than his salary because he already got his bonus, that is not true. In fact his his CAP hit is definitely higher than his salary. If you are saying the CAP is much higher - that is also not true but at least closer. It is $3.5M higher this yr and $1.9M higher next year. I do not see that as nowhere close or much higher. In relative terms it's not much difference. 

 

Out of the $66M contract extension he signed in 2015, only $41.5M was guaranteed ($30M at signing, $11.25M) as an injury guarantee if he was still with the team in 2017. So the bottom line is the team could cut him now and not pay him $22.3M of the contract they signed with him. He would get only the remaining $1.7M that is guaranteed. 

 

Teams let players go with salary on them all the time - all the time. Just look at the players the team is paying dead money to. Here is a short recap: 

 

image.png.6f58ae01913b8b8917ab1975308cb7d4.png

 

Zach Brown - Signed a 3 yr $21M contract in 2018 - received $5.75M or 27%. Team canceled $15.25M. 

Stacy Mcgee -  Signed a 5 yr $25M contract in 2017 - received $10.375M or 41.5%. Team canceled $14.625M

DJ Swearinger - Signed a 3 yr $13M contract in 2017 - received $8.8M or 65.4%. Team canceled $4.2M

Orlando Scandrick - Signed 2 yr $7M contract in 2018 - received $1M or 14%. Team canceled $6M

 

So, should the team have honored those contracts? They signed them? If the team did not want to honor their contracts, then why do they sign them? They released the guys because the contracts were not fully guaranteed like most other major sports. The NFL needs to get to fully guaranteed contracts.

 

For years the teams have had all the leverage. The players are making a change. In effect they signed Trent to a 3 yr extension with teams options for 2 yrs and **** what Trent wants. He has a chance to make sure he gets paid and he is doing it. Each time this happens they will get closer to fully guaranteed contracts. People may not like what he did, but Kirk pushed that envelope and played the game very well. He has a 3 yr fully guaranteed contract. So he gets all his money and gets to decide where he ants to go at the end of it. Once they do that will put teams and players on more of an even playing field. 

 

So I for one have no problem with Trent flexing his muscles here unless he is being crazy like wanting a 5 to 6 yr contract extension for >$15M/yr. But if does want that, if I am the Redskins I call his bluff. Will he let $11M sit on the table? If he does, will he let another $12.5M sit next yr and be out of football 2 yrs? I doubt it. 

 

For the record, if his contract were fully guaranteed and he was complaining about wanting more, I would be less sympathetic. A small part of me would understand but the timing would be bull**** if he was already guaranteed $23.5M over the next 2 yrs. But just $1.7M for arguably the best LT in football? That's BS. So let him get his money - if it's just about money. I still believe there is at least a small, but probably bigger medical staff issue involved. But we need to see the facts first.  

 

image.png.777dbce8017f6df0086d8fb75fa3164c.png 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, NoCalMike said:

I haven't visited this thread in a few days, the last page or two is talking about contract/money.......so did new info come out that this is actually back to being about Trent wanting more money/a new contract?

its clearly about $. like others have said, if he didn't want to be here he wouldn't have waited to the last minute....its clear, last minute = more $ in this scenario. will he really sit for a few mil difference?

Edited by Gibbit

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37 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Ok, normally I can follow you pretty well but this time either I am just not seeing what you are saying or you may be mistaken. 

 

When players get cut they do not get any money that is not guaranteed. And I am not following you on the - when they get cut they still get the majority of their money. That is generally not true and most definitely not true for Trent. His contract is below. It's from overthecap.com. They tend to be pretty reliable.

 

His salary owed is $11M this year and $12.5M for next for $23.5M plus $250k each year for game bonuses for a total of $24M. However, if he gets cut tomorrow, he is only owed about $1.7M. He loses $22.3M and has no recourse for that money, outside signing with another team. Which given the timing is also bad for him just like it's bad for the team. 

 

 

 

 

He has been paid 52.5 million of his 66 million contract already. Or almost 80% of the total deal he signed. In other words He is scheduled to make about 10% per year of his original contract over the next 2 years. His contract guaranteed him 30 million. He has received almost double that number to this point. 

 

Contract History

Team Contract Type Status Year Signed Yrs Total APY Guarantees Amount Earned % Earned Effective APY
Redskins Drafted Renegotiated 2010 6 $60,000,000 $10,000,000 $26,380,500 $45,902,471 76.5% $9,180,494
Redskins Extension Active 2015 5 $66,000,000 $13,200,000 $30,000,000 $52,489,890 79.5% $13,122,473

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