Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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2 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I don’t think it’s Snyder.  I think Snyder is just incompetent, and Bruce is basically brain washing him so Bruce can do what he wants. 

But that approach costs him 2 years and MILLIONS of dollars.  Tens of millions of dollars.

 

The same commonalities ruining this team have existed in some form or another under different players, coaches, GMs, etc. 

 

In this case I'd expect the owner to be involved in some way.  I don't think NY traded Beckham, or the Jags dealt Ramsey without buy in from ownership.  Knowing that, if Snyder made it clear he wanted to trade him, Allen would have no choice.  The reason he's survived as long as he has, is that he does exactly what Snyder wants.  

 

Allen takes the public hits...and the reason he sounds so clueless in front of the press is that he knows it's indefensible.  I think the only reason he gave an impassioned defense of the culture, is because that falls under his purview.  

 

Do you think Snyder did not sign off on getting Alex Smith?  Could you imagine the conversation, telling Snyder you just guaranteed Smith $55 M?  Lol

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6 hours ago, megared said:

Do you think Snyder did not sign off on getting Alex Smith?  Could you imagine the conversation, telling Snyder you just guaranteed Smith $55 M?  Lol

 

Allen does make a move without Dan's blessing, including a bowel movement.

 

This organization is the poster child in how to not run an NFL franchise.

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52 minutes ago, FrFan said:
Trent not being trade now reference.
 

 

Ok, there are still those that support how they are handling the Trent W. situation - or at have been. Honest question, how does this help the Redskins? What end game does this provide? The only thing I see is Bruce proving he is the boss - which when you have to do that you have lost all respect anyway. 

 

I see no positive result the comes out of waiting until next off season to trade him, and trade him now. I don;t need players back. I actually want draft picks. But either way, someone please help me understand how this is a positive fro the team - short or long term for that matter.

 

Again I mean this as an honest question - I do not see it at all but am willing to listen to other positions. 

Edited by goskins10
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I agree it’s a bad move but if I took a leap into Bruce’s logic it would be they get to punish Trent AND they’d get a pick in the off season so it’s a win win.

 

Plus in the off season he could say this was the same offer or worse than they got during the season and no one could prove otherwise.

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I believe each week we are accruing salary cap space for next year that williams doesnt show up but im not 100% sure im not a “cap specialist” like our beloved bruce allen....

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I agree it’s a bad move but if I took a leap into Bruce’s logic it would be they get to punish Trent AND they’d get a pick in the off season so it’s a win win.

 

Plus in the off season he could say this was the same offer or worse than they got during the season and no one could prove otherwise.

 

I appreciate that answer and my response is more likely to be aligned with what you believe so not killing the messenger here: 

 

The problem with that is punishing a player like that is cutting off your nose despite your face. As I said before it's a petty approach. Yes they will likely lie and say they got the same thing - but why? To what end? What not get it now when teams are desperate? 

 

And beyond that, you fired Jay. OK, this should be a sign of a new direction. Why not capitalize on that and trade TW. It's a like they have no understanding that trading him now would be a win for them in the fans eyes. 

4 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

I believe each week we are accruing salary cap space for next year that williams doesnt show up but im not 100% sure im not a “cap specialist” like our beloved bruce allen....

 

If you trade him and his contract you get that CAP back. Any trade would include the other team picking up at least part of the remaining contract. And they owe him the guaranteed money anyway. Or they could say that was the same as the fines. So there is no real gain for the team by waiting. They can accomplish the same thing with the trade. 

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2 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Ok, there are still those that support how they are handling the Trent W. situation - or at have been. Honest question, how does this help the Redskins? What end game does this provide? The only thing I see is Bruce proving he is the boss - which when you have to do that you have lost all respect anyway. 

 

I see no positive result the comes out of waiting until next off season to trade him, and trade him now. I don;t need players back. I actually want draft picks. But either way, someone please help me understand how this is a positive fro the team - short or long term for that matter.

 

Again I mean this as an honest question - I do not see it at all but am willing to listen to other positions. 

It is foolish from two main perspectives.  First and foremost is the got to win now proposition which is why Dorsey keeps calling.  It is called job security for coaches and GM's/ That window obviously shuts the further the season goes on.  Then in the upcoming draft in particular you have some excellent LT's coming out in the first round and of course the Brown's will choose a LT  There are in fact some excellent LT's projected to go first round like Sewell, Adams.  I am not as up on it as others but the fact that i know these two guys names is rare for me. Plus if you research there are at least another four or five other decent ones.  So the upcoming draft is loaded is my main point here.

 

What would be the positive point? None.  I think we are in a rinse and repeat situation for next season where the Skins will get even less.  So I say Williams sits out, some team has a guy go down and the proposal comes again to our Illustrious FO bozo's and now they have to pull the trigger. But they get substantially less then they would now because Trent will have been out of football for close to a year and half. 

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A few things, that may be part of Bruce’s mindset:

 

1) the fines. The team is making money on the fines. They don’t pay out his salary while he’s holding out. They don’t owe him bonuses. Each time they fine him they are making money. This is a big reason, in my opinion. 
 

2) they think that this is an example setter. Trent did a ****ty thing by waiting until after the big FA wave and the draft was over to announce his intentions. Bruce and Dan felt slighted and likely actually “hurt” by this. Bruce/Dan are showing that they aren’t going to stand for this “behavior”.

 

3) the plan I laid out above. I strongly believe that unless a huge deal comes across they plan on Trent showing up for the later part of the season. And that coincides with Haskins starting. From there they will either move Trent or Hope he decides he likes the new direction and stays, or they’ll do the same thing they did this season. 

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I’ve seen some folks defend his stance because of the precedent it sets for other players and agents.  That’s a rather sad and pathetic stance to have to take, because you know your culture is awful and others will want to skip town as well.  But I do agree with those that believe this is part of his reasoning.  The other part being there is a pattern here of Bruce wanting to show guys who the boss is, unfortunately that only works when players and agents respect you.  For a guy like Bruce it just further turns people off.
 

If I’m Dorsey, what I intend to offer only lessens the closer we get to the deadline.  Because if I’m him, I both need and want Trent now more than later. 

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Normal, which is the operative word here,  professional organizations do not operate like this.  

 

Case in point is Jalen Ramsey.  One of the best in the game, wants to be traded from the Jaguars.  He acted like an ass but the organization did the right thing for the team and was forward thinking and got a deal that was best for the organization under the circumstances.   That is what professional, normal teams do.

 

So while Trent did what he did and has his reasons you have to be thinking what is best for the team. Joe Gibbs used to tell guys, in effect, you don't want to be here come see me and we will move you along. 

 

So this is my biggest smh moment for this year.  The Kirk Cousins debacle was the last one.

 

The longer this goes on, and yes okay made your damn point, it is so unprofessional and lacking any concern for the development of this team to make a point, that even analysts are laughing at you about right now.  There is no logic. It is pure grease ball, Danny bitter, and Brucifer lackey scheming again.

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Thank you for the thoughtful response. My response are below. Again, my goal was an open discussion. So hopefully my responses come off that way. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

A few things, that may be part of Bruce’s mindset:

 

1) the fines. The team is making money on the fines. They don’t pay out his salary while he’s holding out. They don’t owe him bonuses. Each time they fine him they are making money. This is a big reason, in my opinion. 

 

I get this and have thought about it. Any trade could include language that the new team picks up the remaining contract. The fines are not that much in comparison and they only owe him about $3M in guarantees. So if you trade him you trade his contract so it comes off your books. So you only owe the guarantees and with him missing games, again that can all be handled in any contract. In fact, a new team would likely renegotiate a new contract - or at least an extension and you could make your part of that agreement that Trent signs a new agreement voiding the one here. So if they are doing this to me it would be more a superficial response because all the same financial gains could be made trading him. 

 

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

2) they think that this is an example setter. Trent did a ****ty thing by waiting until after the big FA wave and the draft was over to announce his intentions. Bruce and Dan felt slighted and likely actually “hurt” by this. Bruce/Dan are showing that they aren’t going to stand for this “behavior”.

 

This is my fear of why they are doing this. To me this could not be a worse reason. First, and this is my opinion - I do not see it as a "****ty" thing in terms of timing. It's business. They play hardball all the time. This is not directed at you - it amazes me how many people support teams (all sorts) playing hard ball with players but when players do it back it's some kind of betrayal. I just do not see that. Both sides get to play hardball. 

 

As for sending a message - not immediately trading him sends that message and while I would do that because as I said before I think that's kind of cut your nose off despite your face thing - I get it. Ok, make him decide to sit out and lose paychecks. Basically calling his bluff. But now it is hurting the team You could right now have access to the resources he could bring to either use to build next year but also this year. Include a player in the trade - someone who fills a hole and get draft picks. A teak like Clev has draft picks and players that could at least fill a hole.  

 

So for me, I see this as the most likely reason and the worst reason there is. It's just petty and childish. They need to put their big boy pants and do what's right for the team not their stupid egos. 

 

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

3) the plan I laid out above. I strongly believe that unless a huge deal comes across they plan on Trent showing up for the later part of the season. And that coincides with Haskins starting. From there they will either move Trent or Hope he decides he likes the new direction and stays, or they’ll do the same thing they did this season. 

 

This is the only reason that makes almost a little sense. That maybe they have been telling him behind the scenes we will be making some moves that we think you will like. We still want you as a Redskin so that is why we are not trading you. We hope you change your mind and join us. If you still feel the same at the end of the season, then we will work towards a more mutual end. 

 

But that gives them way to much credit.  I guess we will see. It will all come out when it's done. In the meantime. I still thinks it is a monumentally stupid thing to not move him. 

 

Again, thanks for the well thought out response. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, FrFan said:

 

Browns also said price too steep..so which is it. If all they are offering is a 3rd..hell no..wait till March. Up the pick..then lets talk..maybe

 

 

Edited by The Hangman- C_Hanburger
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Ya no ****..if all they have been offering is a sack of nuts(allen should be sucking lol)than no wonder why the trade didnt happen...yes i agree trent is an aging vet but hes worth alot more than a 3rd

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9 hours ago, megared said:

 

All indications are that's what is going to happen.  Why would he not report, if he still has a desire to play football?  This is a means to his end, which is getting off the team.  He's certainly under no expectation to do the team any favors.  When he comes back, he'll in essence be playing for free, with all of the fines he's accrued.  Knowing the pettiness of this front office, I wouldn't  be surprised in the least if they tried to recoup some of his bonus...

 

I woiuld say no indications are that he will show up for the last six games.  Because he'll be as easy to trade if not easier sitting out the full year leaving both years on his contract.  And if he were to show up, play six games, not get traded, holdout and play six games for free agency he'd have shown himself to be a pretty unique asshole in the history of the NFL.  Plus of course next year is the final year of the CBA so doing things for the purpose of doing something in 2021 is pretty presumptive

13 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Have we found a motive to Bruce's actions yet?

 

to show the other ownerss they're not caving in to players in the approach to negotiations?

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1 minute ago, carex said:

 

I woiuld say no indications are that he will show up for the last six games.  Because he'll be as easy to trade if not easier sitting out the full year leaving both years on his contract.  And if he were to show up, play six games, not get traded, holdout and play six games for free agency he'd have shown himself to be a pretty unique asshole in the history of the NFL.  Plus of course next year is the final year of the CBA so doing things for the purpose of doing something in 2021 is pretty presumptive

 

to show the other ownerss they're not caving in to players in the approach to negotiations?

 

Trent is showing up. He wants more money. Play 6 games, get down to your contract year. 

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7 minutes ago, carex said:

Because he'll be as easy to trade if not easier sitting out the full year leaving both years on his contract.  And if he were to show up, play six games, not get traded, holdout and play six games for free agency he'd have shown himself to be a pretty unique asshole in the history of the NFL.  Plus of course next year is the final year of the CBA so doing things for the purpose of doing something in 2021 is pretty presumptive

 

So he'd delay another payday, for a year, in order to somehow retain value for the Redskins' benefit?  Otherwise he's the bad guy?  

 

The FO had all offseason to rectify this.  The fact that they aren't even seriously considering offers at this point is an indictment on themselves, not Trent.  

 

And Trent has played this as well as can be expected.  Not one public word of disparagement.  All of the selfish athlete stereotypes fall apart when you accept that the situation isn't about a new contract, and he can't be considered a distraction, when he's said or done nothing publicly.  

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57 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

yes i agree trent is an aging vet but hes worth alot more than a 3rd

 

Not sure about that.  Just because the Texans did what they did, doesn't define the market. 

 

Plus in this upcoming draft, there's plenty of opportunity to get 4 years of rights to a younger, healthier, cheaper guy that *could be* as good one day.  

 

If you were one of the other ~10 teams that needs a LT, and your team is bad enough to have a pick near the top of draft--would you draft a rookie, or trade that pick for Trent?  Keep in mind you have to probably give Trent at least a 3 year deal, at top of the market salary.      

 

The biggest opportunity we had was catching one of those teams in season while they were desperate for help.  Once the season's over, that urgency will be gone.  The market will shrink...and the FO will have to take what it can get.  

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8 minutes ago, megared said:

 

Not sure about that.  Just because the Texans did what they did, doesn't define the market. 

 

Plus in this upcoming draft, there's plenty of opportunity to get 4 years of rights to a younger, healthier, cheaper guy that *could be* as good one day.  

 

If you were one of the other ~10 teams that needs a LT, and your team is bad enough to have a pick near the top of draft--would you draft a rookie, or trade that pick for Trent?  Keep in mind you have to probably give Trent at least a 3 year deal, at top of the market salary.      

 

The biggest opportunity we had was catching one of those teams in season while they were desperate for help.  Once the season's over, that urgency will be gone.  The market will shrink...and the FO will have to take what it can get.  

Good points here i agree

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Wish there was an insider that Trent Williams trusted who could tell us what he is really thinking right now.  He has made his millions so maybe he is using

this time to heal up from all his injuries.   Wondering if he still believes he made the right decision not to play this year.   Wonder if he feels like he let down

his teammates or not.   Wonder when he finally does leave this team if he will hold his own press conference or just leave without saying much at all to the press.

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Assuming he is not going to report, my understanding is we get to roll over a portion or all of this years cap money to next year, so perhaps (again assuming he does not pull the dick move and report for six weeks) he would hold greater trade value if a team can get him for two years under his current contract and we would roll more money into next year, I wonder if that is some of the thinking??  Am I off base?   

 

Bruce is still the biggest asshat in the world and botched this immensely, but playing with the cards we currently have is waiting potentially the best strat?

 

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7 minutes ago, ggarriso said:

Assuming he is not going to report, my understanding is we get to roll over a portion or all of this years cap money to next year, so perhaps (again assuming he does not pull the dick move and report for six weeks) he would hold greater trade value if a team can get him for two years under his current contract and we would roll more money into next year, I wonder if that is some of the thinking??  Am I off base?   

 

Bruce is still the biggest asshat in the world and botched this immensely, but playing with the cards we currently have is waiting potentially the best strat?

 

 

no, I think that's happening.  Plus we're fining him, or we fined him as long as we could so we're probably getting back more than his contract cost for this year

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1 hour ago, megared said:

 

Not sure about that.  Just because the Texans did what they did, doesn't define the market. 

 

Plus in this upcoming draft, there's plenty of opportunity to get 4 years of rights to a younger, healthier, cheaper guy that *could be* as good one day.  

 

If you were one of the other ~10 teams that needs a LT, and your team is bad enough to have a pick near the top of draft--would you draft a rookie, or trade that pick for Trent?  Keep in mind you have to probably give Trent at least a 3 year deal, at top of the market salary.      

 

The biggest opportunity we had was catching one of those teams in season while they were desperate for help.  Once the season's over, that urgency will be gone.  The market will shrink...and the FO will have to take what it can get.  

 

30% rule for next year's "Final league year" means there's  a hard limit on how much of a raise he can get.

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4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Again I mean this as an honest question - I do not see it at all but am willing to listen to other positions. 

When I see what the Texans gave to the Fins for Tunsil :rolleyes: couldn't we have reached a deal with them ?

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