BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, carex said: But Bruce doesn't actually have a stake in this so that doesn't work Oh but he does, it's personal. I just find it a bit wild, that after all this time and all these events, with how he's handled 2 high profile players, what the entire outside world feels about him and what he had to say himself at his presser the other day, that you can still find reasons to play contrarian on whether or not this dude is an absolute embarrassment. For someone who loves the Redskins so much, you should want better, so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 39 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: So stupid. Waiting until the off-season means he can't help teams now--less urgency when they can tell themselves they'll use FA and the draft to fix LT. Then, we either have to settle for future picks or the current years picks will have a fixed value already--no way to luck into a surprisingly high Browns pick, for example. The picks will be known and we'll get less now or settle for future assets. Ugh. I'm really not surprised anymore. It should be incredibly difficult go be this persistently stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Oh but he does, it's personal. I just find it a bit wild, that after all this time and all these events, with how he's handled 2 high profile players, what the entire outside world feels about him and what he had to say himself at his presser the other day, that you can still find reasons to play contrarian on whether or not this dude is an absolute embarrassment. For someone who loves the Redskins so much, you should want better, so much better. I do want better, but I don't pretend to know for sure what better looks like or that I'm inside other people's heads Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 36 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: Yeah if that's what they truly intend to do then my best guess is Bruce can sell it to Dan or whomever as a win win in the off season. Hey we punished Trent AND we got a draft pick. I bet they do get something back for Trent in the off season but it's unlikely to be what they can get now. The article I posted awhile back from Joel Corry has many similarities. Tampa was stinking that season. But Bruce remained firm anyway. Sounds like though Trent not saying a peep might be playing into Bruce's hands. McCardell purposely became a pain in the butt to get Jon Gruden to perhaps tell Bruce to get rid of the guy. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/agents-take-a-first-hand-look-at-redskins-gm-bruce-allen-handling-a-holdout-as-trent-williams-continues-to-sit/ ...The idea was to become a big enough distraction to force a trade. That's why we kept McCardell available to media outlets where he became increasingly more critical of Gruden and the Buccaneers organization in his numerous interviews. Our NFL sources indicated to us that a couple of teams were interested in acquiring McCardell early in the season but Allen wasn't open to moving him at that time. This only deepened the divide between the sides. Eventually, we found the right button to push. A former colleague of Gruden's in Oakland told me he hated confrontation. We had McCardell fly to Tampa about a week before the trading deadline for an impromptu meeting with Gruden where he was instructed to be extremely combative, which was out of character for him, because we thought that approach might help spur movement. We wanted Gruden to get a taste of what life might be like if a disgruntled McCardell came back. I can't say for certain but suspect the meeting between McCardell and Gruden prompted the trade. Gruden couldn't have been looking forward to an unhappy McCardell returning after getting fed up enough with Johnson the year before to send him home for the final few games of that season. The only issue here being that Jon Gruden had the power to force Bruce's hand, nobody in Washington has that kind of juice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, carex said: I do want better, but I don't pretend to know for sure what better looks like or that I'm inside other people's heads What I think is fair is that Bruce definitely doesn't do this stuff with the intent of not improving. I think he believes his tactics to be helpful for the franchise. They aren't. But I think he truly believes they are. Unless he's a super secret agent that was put into the Redskins organization to shed light on Snyder's ill advised moves by being his mouth piece and his ultimate goal is to transfer ownership to someone more competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetThePointsSoar Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 41 minutes ago, carex said: But Bruce doesn't actually have a stake in this so that doesn't work Can't. Tell. If. Serious..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss_Hogg Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 This is actually pretty smart of the Bruce Allen Dan Snyder brain trust. Why trade a player for picks when they suck at drafting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 We're decent a drafting, we just suck at coaching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 @carex It just fits a pattern of behavior with him though... lowballing players, dealings with Scott and LaFemina, the Kirk situation, trading Fuller, the way we acquired Smith, player extensions, acquiring injury prone players and then using injuries as an excuse for losses, and more (much more). Rumors of ego driven issues, reports from those who’ve had dealings with or inside info on those dealings with Allen; it all paints a picture. I do think that @KDawg is right in that he’s trying to improve the team, but the pattern also points to a guy that lets his desire for job security interfere with team dealings. Bottom line for me is that I just can’t trust the guy. Even if he were to step back into the Team President role (solely) and hire a good GM, I can’t trust that he will let that guy make all of the football/personnel decisions, nor can I trust that he won’t backstab the guy for power/personality reasons. Allen hasn’t been all bad, he’s done a number of good things for the team - drafting dlinemen, acquiring additional draft picks, not signing old FAs (and being fairly judicious with FA in general), etc. But his role, his personality, and the structural hierarchy has meant that many business decisions are made poorly and we lack a cohesive plan for marrying players to scheme (among other things). To wrap it back into the current situation, Allen may well pull something off in terms of dealing Trent. It’s quite possible we’ll all be happy with the outcome. I just can’t hold my breath about it given his ego (refusing to let Williams ‘bully’ him), list of unintelligent moves, and need to ‘win’ the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hazel-Ra Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, skinny21 said: @carex It just fits a pattern of behavior with him though... lowballing players, dealings with Scott and LaFemina, the Kirk situation, trading Fuller, the way we acquired Smith, player extensions, acquiring injury prone players and then using injuries as an excuse for losses, and more (much more). Rumors of ego driven issues, reports from those who’ve had dealings with or inside info on those dealings with Allen; it all paints a picture. I do think that @KDawg is right in that he’s trying to improve the team, but the pattern also points to a guy that lets his desire for job security interfere with team dealings. Bottom line for me is that I just can’t trust the guy. Even if he were to step back into the Team President role (solely) and hire a good GM, I can’t trust that he will let that guy make all of the football/personnel decisions, nor can I trust that he won’t backstab the guy for power/personality reasons. Allen hasn’t been all bad, he’s done a number of good things for the team - drafting dlinemen, acquiring additional draft picks, not signing old FAs (and being fairly judicious with FA in general), etc. But his role, his personality, and the structural hierarchy has meant that many business decisions are made poorly and we lack a cohesive plan for marrying players to scheme (among other things). To wrap it back into the current situation, Allen may well pull something off in terms of dealing Trent. It’s quite possible we’ll all be happy with the outcome. I just can’t hold my breath about it given his ego (refusing to let Williams ‘bully’ him), list of unintelligent moves, and need to ‘win’ the deal. I see merit in your view. He seems like he has the mental tools but can be sabotaged by his own ego. The Cousins and Williams situations went from being (in his mind) a team issue to a struggle between Player vs Bruce Allen... and this is a guy who grew up hearing "Losing is Dying" every day of his youth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, skinny21 said: @carex It just fits a pattern of behavior with him though... lowballing players, dealings with Scott and LaFemina, the Kirk situation, trading Fuller, the way we acquired Smith, player extensions, acquiring injury prone players and then using injuries as an excuse for losses, and more (much more). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 hours ago, bakedtater1 said: Another receiver?..a te with concussions and a 1st that will be used on a coach no one wants here.. way to go bruce!! Got to generally agree here, a first and third back out for Tomlin would be my guess....if it were proven true at all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFi Skins Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 sending TW away for a haul or at least a 1st rounder and then re-signing Scherff would do a lot of good for this place. We know TW isn't coming back and we need Scherff going forward. While we're at it, send Norman packing and possibly Kerrigan. Release Jordan Reed with an injury designation... We need to be active sellers right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 If Njoku is supposed to be part of the deal, he's hurt right now. He'll have to get a physical and he'd fail it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shkspr Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 But isn't that how we find all our starting tight ends? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndorf25 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 30 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said: We're decent a drafting, we just suck at coaching... The talent has been decent with the recent drafts--as another poster mentioned, the team has done a poor job of scheming up how to properly use that talent. You can blame the coaching sure, but it is also the FO's responsibility to identify talent that will also fit the scheme that the coaches run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyKillerz Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If Njoku is supposed to be part of the deal, he's hurt right now. He'll have to get a physical and he'd fail it. Does TW even pass a physical? Both teams will likely have to make new deals for the players- hopefully its true and thats what we are waiting on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Mr. Sinister said: It should be incredibly difficult go be this persistently stupid Well stupidity is kind of like a car with a dead battery. Once you get rolling, it’s easy to keep it going. And if you get it going down a hill... it’s difficult to overstate the momentum of runaway stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 24 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: If Njoku is supposed to be part of the deal, he's hurt right now. He'll have to get a physical and he'd fail it. This was bothering me yesterday. I didn't know if it was the type of situation where he was technically ready to go now but had already been put on IR (to possibly return later, but it's not that time yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 9 minutes ago, Wyndorf25 said: The talent has been decent with the recent drafts--as another poster mentioned, the team has done a poor job of scheming up how to properly use that talent. You can blame the coaching sure, but it is also the FO's responsibility to identify talent that will also fit the scheme that the coaches run. That can end up biting you in the ass when you don't have a coach who has established himself strong enough to guarantee he'll be around for a while, though.. Because you can end up using 2-3 straight drafts getting players to fit a specific scheme and then fire the coach. you'd either have to hire a new coach with a similar scheme or start tossing players that don't fit the new coach's scheme and start restocking all over again. Full disclosure: I'm still pissed off that we got rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Candidate because Trung fit Spurrier's scheme better lol 😡... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Espn breaking news.... Joe Maddon? No one cares where Joe Maddon is, what a tease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaper Skins Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Id rather get a Browns player from their secondary than a TE. We won't be running Gruden's offense next season anyway so who knows what sort of role the TE will have going forward. CB takes care of the Norman problem and we can look for TEs in free agency/ draft next offseason that fit what the new HC wants to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 11 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Higgins would be the perfect complement to McLaurin. Njoku would be the seam-buster that Reed once was. I just can't believe we would get those guys along with a 1st and 3rd. That would put their entire passing offense on Mayfield, OBJ, and Landry. Callaway isn't reliable. Dealing away young explosive receiving weapons Njoku and Higgins while gaining a LT for your young QB just seems like treading water, potentially. Not sure how true this is. I'm actually wondering how wrong the reporting is. What if we offered our 1st, 3rd and Williams for Njoku and Higgins. Now that sounds like the kind of deal that would leave me completely infuriated. Not sure if you picked up on this, but I think the Redskins as an organization are just trying to punk me every chance they get. So 260 pages later and we might be close to killing this thread. I feel it's an appropriate time to shift into 'we are waiting' gifs. Here's my initial contribution: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Califan007 said: That can end up biting you in the ass when you don't have a coach who has established himself strong enough to guarantee he'll be around for a while, though.. Because you can end up using 2-3 straight drafts getting players to fit a specific scheme and then fire the coach. you'd either have to hire a new coach with a similar scheme or start tossing players that don't fit the new coach's scheme and start restocking all over again. Full disclosure: I'm still pissed off that we got rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Candidate because Trung fit Spurrier's scheme better lol 😡... This is very true of course. I think it needs to be a mix of things to solve this problem. One, you can’t/shouldn’t bring in a coach who’s scheme is based on power running to a team with a zone blocking line (like we did with Gruden I believe), you should avoid a bringing in ball control type coach to a team with a gunslinger of a qb. A defensive coach that relies on long, physical corners shouldn’t be hired to a team with a smaller, quicker secondary. Personnel fit has to be a consideration. Two, players can be traded, upgraded from (with guys that are a better fit), etc., or coaches may have run or been around different schemes and be able to adapt to their players. Don’t think this FO/owner have had much success marrying the different elements of personnel to coaches (and vice versa). Just in recent history: RGIII and Smith for Gruden, Gruden brought in to a zone blocking line, losing (and not adequately replacing) Fuller and Breeland for Manusky, not adequately replacing Garçon/Jackson/Cousins for Gruden, AP not fitting for Gruden’s offense, sticking Gruden with Haskins (and soon with a new coach)*, etc. *Haskins actually may have been a good fit for Gruden down the road, we’ll never know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Whats the significance of 13 days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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