Owls0325

!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

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1 minute ago, megared said:

 

I'm conflicted...just because he's the kind of guy you keep around as a leader.  He's on a very team friendly contract, for now. 

 

I could see a good defense wanting him, and letting him play out the rest of his contract.  You're not going to get a guy with his production, for the money he's getting paid, period.      

 

 

 

In a different situation I'd be in complete agreement with you. Kerrigan is exactly the kind of guy you want around. But he's also the kind of guy you want to find success. He is used to a lackluster environment here and could likely fetch a good haul in draft picks. It's win/win for both parties. 

 

He's a free agent after next season. This offseason is the time to move him if they're going to. He will be 32 years old at the end of his current contract. 

 

If you can acquire picks (yes, two, trading him 1:1 isn't that large of a help imo) at the end of this year it needs to be strongly considered.

 

 

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7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

In a different situation I'd be in complete agreement with you. Kerrigan is exactly the kind of guy you want around. But he's also the kind of guy you want to find success. He is used to a lackluster environment here and could likely fetch a good haul in draft picks. It's win/win for both parties. 

 

He's a free agent after next season. This offseason is the time to move him if they're going to. He will be 32 years old at the end of his current contract. 

 

If you can acquire picks (yes, two, trading him 1:1 isn't that large of a help imo) at the end of this year it needs to be strongly considered.

 

 

 

On your list, Kerrigan is the only guy I vacillate on.  But if they can get a first rounder for him, I'd do it.  I wonder though at his age whether they could get that much.  Maybe.

 

Norman, Reed, Trent to me are no brainers.  

 

Clear cap, get younger.   Rebuild.    Some within the national media are trashing Miami for what they are doing.  But among the Dolphin fans I talk to (which includes some within my own family) they've never felt more hopeful.  I do think Miami is going too extreme even for my taste.  I don't like trading young stud players but if I can get crazy hauls, what the heck. 

 

 

 

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Before Pats signed OT Caleb Benenoch, Texans hosted him. 49ers are hosting OT Sam Young today.... there's plenty of need for an All-Pro like TW.... The iron is blazing hot. (but we are stupid)

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9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

He's a free agent after next season. This offseason is the time to move him if they're going to. He will be 32 years old at the end of his current contract. 

 

If you can acquire picks (yes, two, trading him 1:1 isn't that large of a help imo) at the end of this year it needs to be strongly considered.

 

Agree.  I think it'll be very telling early in the offseason.  Either it gets done quickly and quietly, or it's not getting done. 

 

And I wouldn't blame him one bit for pushing for a big raise, considering this is probably his last big opportunity for a payday.  

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52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

By my count this is their 6th month dealing with this.  How much time do they need to process it?  I follow the Dolphins closely since i am in South Florida and Minkah pretty much just became an issue as for his discontent a few weeks ago.  They made a decision.  They acted and now likely have a top 10 pick for it.  It's not rocket science.   

 

I'd be very surprised if Trent's value stays the same in the off season.  If I were another team my interest would not be as high.  In the off season, you got Trent now going to be 32, only one year left on his contract and most importantly a draft that's potentially very rich at LT and FA in front of me, too.   

I don't disagree about trading him NOW..if you can. I just don't want to see him go for a 3rd round or worse. LT's are going down ..if you get a chance go for it..just don't get fleeced. If they knew TW was this adamant prior to the draft..yea..major screw up. I sure a heck don't know the facts here

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Just now, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

I don't disagree about trading him NOW..if you can. I just don't want to see him go for a 3rd round or worse. LT's are going down ..if you get a chance go for it..just don't get fleeced. If they knew TW was this adamant prior to the draft..yea..major screw up. I sure a heck don't know the facts here

 

OK, I am with you about not just dumping Trent for whatever.  But I genuinely think they can get a good haul for him.  Will see. 

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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

 

3) What Jets thing? You mean the fact that the Jets defense managed to keep the Browns close for the majority of the football game despite the fact that their offensive line may be the worst I've ever seen, were on their third string QB and they struggled to do anything?

Good point...that's very true. I should have considered that

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42 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

Wishful thinking.... I see us picking in the top 5. We have more talent, yes, but we are not coached well. It's going down quickly...

 

we're coached the same way we were last year and the year before and the year before.  Everyone predicted the bottom would fall out and it never did

41 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So teams won't care that he's a year older, has just one year left on his contract and that the draft then is likely special at the same position?   And they also got FA to fix that position, too.

 

I like Trent as much as anyone.  But I am not trading a first rounder for a 32 year old in the off season with all that's available.  Now, if i am a coach in a win now or else season or I think he could be the missing piece for the SB, I'd trade a first and change for Trent right now.  But not in the off season when there are potentially a bounty of other fish in the sea.  I mean maybe i'd give up a 2nd for Trent then but not a first. 

 

To me the difference between now and next off season is night and day.  If Trent was 26 and had 3 years left in his contract, I'd feel differently.    

 

I don't believe he's coming back for six games

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12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

On your list, Kerrigan is the only guy I vacillate on.  But if they can get a first rounder for him, I'd do it.  I wonder though at his age whether they could get that much.  Maybe.

 

Norman, Reed, Trent to me are no brainers.  

 

Clear cap, get younger.   Rebuild.    Some within the national media are trashing Miami for what they are doing.  But among the Dolphin fans I talk to (which includes some within my own family) they've never felt more hopeful.  I do think Miami is going too extreme even for my taste.  I don't like trading young stud players but if I can get crazy hauls, what the heck. 

 

 

 

 

Will be fascinating when Tua pulls an Eli Manning and refuses to play for Dolphins. 

 

Tanking in the NFL isnt the same as the NBA. Grown men not on guaranteed contracts being put in position to look bad on tape. No good. 

 

Dolphins didn’t want to trade Minkah he forced his way out of a potentially historically bad situation. This is part of the backlash of openly tanking. 

 

I lean towards it not working, but remain open minded to NFL tanking. Will be fascinating to watch it unfold over the next two to three years. 

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2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

 

I don't believe he's coming back for six games

 

I think he's coming back eventually and if he doesn't it makes the FO play here even more pathetic IMO.  But playing with the even crazier scenario, like I said even if its Trent with 2 years left on his contract at 32 in this off season with the other options available for multiple teams -- his trade value IMO won't be the same as right now.  

 

 I know guys like Trent do not grow on trees but I think his age, contract, and other options available are very relevant to his market value -- and I'd feel almost the same way if its 1 versus 2 years on the contract.  But man I'd really be upset if the dude didn't play the whole season and this stand off played out where both sides lose.  The way you are laying it out.   Yuck.  I don't think that happens though.  i am guessing the FO eventually gets what they want and that is Trent plays -- only question is when.  Will see. 

 

 

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precisely why I think it's a good idea to do a draft lottery in the NFL.... for competitive advantage...

 

Sucks when you may need to 'win and in' for playoffs against a good team and then the other team plays a tanking team and gets your spot in the playoffs. Pros and Cons to both but I'd prefer the draft lottery.

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6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I lean towards it not working, but remain open minded to NFL tanking. Will be fascinating to watch it unfold over the next two to three years.  

 

It's a scorched earth, scattershot method of building that causes collateral damage and gets the architects fired.

 

It's also unnecessary in the NFL.  The best teams usually pick late in drafts and they stay good.  The depth of talent in an NFL draft is a thousand times deeper than in the NBA draft.  The rate of attrition is so much worse too.  And coaching is so much more critical to NFL success than NBA success, and tanking undermines coaching.

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7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Will be fascinating when Tua pulls an Eli Manning and refuses to play for Dolphins. 

 

Tanking in the NFL isnt the same as the NBA. Grown men not on guaranteed contracts being put in position to look bad on tape. No good. 

 

Dolphins didn’t want to trade Minkah he forced his way out of a potentially historically bad situation. This is part of the backlash of openly tanking. 

 

I lean towards it not working, but remain open minded to NFL tanking. Will be fascinating to watch it unfold over the next two to three years. 

 

that's exactly what I was thinking.  It's honestly amazing a tanking team would have any top quality players at all.  You're risking injuries for guys not even trying, your performance is being watched by whoever will sign your next contract.  Your talent is being insulted by your bosses.  Plus to tank in the NFL with it's much shorter season you have to begin almost at the beginning, unlike in say the NBA where you can be 2/3s of the year in before you need to. 

 

Tanking is basically a giant "**** you, you worthless trash" to all your players and you're saying it to a lot more players than you do in other leagues

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19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Will be fascinating when Tua pulls an Eli Manning and refuses to play for Dolphins. 

 

Eli is a wild exception.  I think almost no chance it happens based on what I've read about Tua which is quite a bit because my son follows Alabama.  But I admit for pure entertainment purposes, I'd be very amused if it happened.

 

Tua has a boy scout type of personality, big family, cool guy.  I think if anything he'd enjoy that Miami likely gives him one of his stud receivers, too.  They are likely in prime position to not only take Tua but also Ruggs, Jeudy, or Smith.  They can likely get his LT for him, too.   Him being a Hawaii guy, i think he'd like South Florida. 

 

 

19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

Tanking in the NFL isnt the same as the NBA. Grown men not on guaranteed contracts being put in position to look bad on tape. No good. 

 

I agree.  But there is a happy medium to it.  I've flat out said I wouldn't go as bananas at it as the Dolphins are doing.  but do i think they will benefit over the long term for doing this.  Yes.  If Chris Grier lives up to his reputation as to how he handles the draft.

 

There is a reason why teams pay up the nose if they want to trade up into the top 10.  It's why the Falcons traded up for Julio Jones.  And plenty of other examples. Yeah it doesn't guarantee anything but it does increase the likelihood you are getting a star.   2 of the Cowboys essential players were top 5 picks.  Where would the Eagles be without Wentz?  The only dude worthwhile for the Giants is Barkley.  Arguably the top 2 players in Dan's era:  Trent and Sean Taylor were high draft picks.

 

Yes, it's not basketball where one player period can change a franchise aside from a top QB.  But I'd much rather have multiple #1 picks.  I'd like my chance to hit a home run much more with a top 5 pick then picking 15-20.    It's not about guarantees but playing the odds. 

 

19 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Dolphins didn’t want to trade Minkah he forced his way out of a potentially historically bad situation. This is part of the backlash of openly tanking. 

 

 

The main plot according to him was he wasn't happy that he didn't have a defined role week to week and wasn't assured that would change.  The tanking didn't help either.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

 

Trade them both...I'd unload anything that can bring back a pick at this point. You might be able to give Penn to a team in extreme win-now mode and Williams to a team who wants someone for multiple years. 

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48 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Clear cap, get younger.   Rebuild.    Some within the national media are trashing Miami for what they are doing.  But among the Dolphin fans I talk to (which includes some within my own family) they've never felt more hopeful.  I do think Miami is going too extreme even for my taste.  I don't like trading young stud players but if I can get crazy hauls, what the heck. 

 

Well, Sashi Brown was fired (from the Browns), but based on his moves Cleveland has grabbed a lot of the national media and actually look like they have a bright future. 

 

Moneyball is a real thing and to some extent it can apply to all team sports.

 

I just don't think Snyder would go 1-2 seasons of tanking. It's not that he minds losing, but rather that merchandise sales slump in those times. 

 

As much as we are not happy with the on field product, Snyder has a very profitable business. IMHO his primary goal is that profit piece. I should say, this is consistent for many owners. Look at Dean Spanos and the Chargers. His late father, Alex Spanos, was a real estate guy in California who bought the Chargers for $72M back in 1984. As a money maker he only knows the Chargers. They had a loyal fan base and a local government who wanted to keep them, but California couldn't afford a new stadium outright. Was moving the team to LA a football move? No. It was a quick way for the Chargers to be worth an extra billion dollars. 

 

Dean Spanos is about as hated by Charger fans as the Redskins base hates Snyder. It's not because they are bad people, but rather are running a business and we just buy they product. 

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16 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Trade them both...I'd unload anything that can bring back a pick at this point. You might be able to give Penn to a team in extreme win-now mode and Williams to a team who wants someone for multiple years. 

 

That's not a bad idea.

 

I'd also trade Kerrigan right now. Has a few years left on his deal. He stays healthy, gets his sacks, but otherwise isn't a game-changer. Bet opposite a better OLB and with better coaching, he could be good on a good team.

 

If Miami isn't going to get dinged for this scorched earth tanking, the Skins shouldn't for a little moving guys.


Wait.....Mara. He'll for sure have Goodell dock us picks and camp room while leaving Miami alone.  

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23 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Trade them both...I'd unload anything that can bring back a pick at this point. You might be able to give Penn to a team in extreme win-now mode and Williams to a team who wants someone for multiple years. 

Now you're talkin!!!

We are in the rarest of positions to have to very good left tackles. Trade Penn to New England and Trent to SF....get a 1st and 3rd from San Fran and a 2nd from New England. 

Throw Christian in as starting left tackle....

in the draft grab the best left tackle and right tackle in the first round then grab guards in the other rounds. 

With all the cap money grab linebackers and safety help. Let Landon pick who he wants to play with back there.

 And finally, grab an Andy Reid assistant to turn Haskins into another Mahomes....Chiefs OC should be our next head coach unless O'Connell is just that good. But we need to make Haskins great, top priority.

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1 hour ago, carex said:

 

we're coached the same way we were last year and the year before and the year before.  Everyone predicted the bottom would fall out and it never did

 

I don't believe he's coming back for six games

Depends on perspective, I guess. 

 

The only reason people say the bottom didn’t fall out last year was because of injuries. 

 

The bottom did fall fall out especially on defense. The defense was relatively intact with the exception of Jimoh. They folded, crashed, and looked about as sturdy as a rubber band used to hold back an avalanche. 

 

I think Jay threw in the towel after Colt got hurt. 

 

The year before that the defense also also fell apart at the end of the year. So did Kirk and the offense. The bottom fell out when they needed one win to get into the playoffs in their last five games and got slaughtered by everyone including a Giants team that had folded up its season months earlier. 

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I could get behind trading Kerrigan but not sure what we can realistically get for him. Elite edge rushers are a premium like LTs but he isn't an elite edge rusher. He's a good one who tends to disappear for long stretches and then gets his sacks in bursts. He'll also be 32 at the beginning of next season. I can't really see anyone giving up a 1st for him at all...maybe a 2nd. Though in a draft as deep as next year's there will likely be tons of first round talent in the 2nd round so it wouldn't be bad. 

 

Trading Penn...what in the world would that get us? Dude has played pretty well for us so far but he'll be 37 years old next season. Maybe a 3rd or 4th? I'd rather he just stayed here for the season and help us not get our QB murdered. Then we can move Trent (hopefully) and draft their replacement in the 1st next year in an absolutely loaded draft. 

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12 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Depends on perspective, I guess. 

 

The only reason people say the bottom didn’t fall out last year was because of injuries. 

 

The bottom did fall fall out especially on defense. The defense was relatively intact with the exception of Jimoh. They folded, crashed, and looked about as sturdy as a rubber band used to hold back an avalanche. 

 

I think Jay threw in the towel after Colt got hurt. 

 

The year before that the defense also also fell apart at the end of the year. So did Kirk and the offense. The bottom fell out when they needed one win to get into the playoffs in their last five games and got slaughtered by everyone including a Giants team that had folded up its season months earlier. 

 

people don't say the bottom fell out last year because we finished 7-9 and that's not close to the bottom falling out

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2 hours ago, carex said:

 

we're coached the same way we were last year and the year before and the year before.  Everyone predicted the bottom would fall out and it never did

 

I don't believe he's coming back for six games

After starting 5-2, we went 2-7 on the back 9, losing those games by a staggering 225-135!!! If that isn’t the bottom falling out of a season, I have no idea what is. That’s a collapse of Zornian proportions. 

 

And the defense has picked up where it left off down the stretch last year, despite adding talent (a first round pick, and a marquee FA safety). 

Edited by Stormy
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2 minutes ago, Stormy said:

After starting 5-2, we went 2-7 on the back 9, losing those games by a staggering 225-116!!! If that isn’t the bottom falling out of a season, I have no idea what is. That’s a collapse of Zornian proportions. 

 

we're talking about two different things.  Because we got onto this subject by talk of tanking and draft position.  The bottom falling out during a season isn't enough to get you near the top of the draft. 

 

It's the bottom falling out between seasons that makes the difference

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