By Destino in ES Coverage

[clskinsfan]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

To each their own.  Not me as for taking stand.  We don't even know that Trent is wrong in his position let alone me getting fired up about taking a stand against him.  

Hold on a minute. Not wrong? HE SINGED THE CONTRACT. If you dont want to honor it. DONT SIGN IT.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, clskinsfan said:

Brother you are lucky to get 12 games out of the guy. Is he a beast when healthy? Yep. But healthy is not a word you use with Trent. And that has A LOT to do with his trade value.

 

It's rare for me to hear Garafalo, Breer, Laconfora, Schefter all agree on the same point.  And they all agree Trent is worth at least a first.   I get we have our own concerns and opinions about Trent.  But I put stock when national reporters who ride on their reputations flat out say that's what they are hearing.  Now they might all end up wrong but I'd put bets on Schefter's sources for example versus our own speculation about what the realities are. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The whole “take a stand” movement being pitched is an absolute fool’s errand.  That’s what you do when you are more stubborn and petty than you are smart and savvy.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Hold on a minute. Not wrong? HE SINGED THE CONTRACT. If you dont want to honor it. DONT SIGN IT.

 

You are presuming his beef with the FO and medical staff is not what's driving it.  That's what people who have talked to him are screaming that's driving Trent.  Yeah i get the Redskins FO are screaming its all about money.  I got no idea one way or another. 

 

But i am naturally assuming the FO is telling the truth and Trent's side is lying.  I got no idea.  And frankly I don't care one way or another.  I want to build a winning team and that starts with accruing picks.   I can care less about some stand from the FO about the culture they are setting -- I already think that battle is lost anyway regardless of what happens with Trent.  

Edited September 1 by Skinsinparadise

[dyst]

If a team gives you a 1st for Trent (you take it). At this point, if you can get a high 2nd (you take it). 

 

There is no point to bring him back if he doesn’t want to be here. 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

30 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Problem is that the closer we get to the deadline, the less time is left on his contract. Thats a huge bonus for any team trading for Trent. They could trade for an elite LT under contract, and dont have to negotiate for 2 years, where his value should be affordable. 

What makes you think TW would not hold out for a better contract with the new team...you think he'll just take a lateral with no cash?? Seeing how TW treated his current contract terms....I bet teams would be leery of him.

[clskinsfan]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are presuming his beef with the FO and medical staff is what's driving it.  That's what people who have talked to him are screaming that's driving Trent.  Yeah i get the Redskins FO are screaming its all about money.

 

But i am naturally assuming the FO is telling the truth and Trent's side is lying.  I got no idea.  And frankly I don't care one way or another.  I want to build a winning team and that starts with accruing picks.   I can care less about some stand about the FO about the culture they are setting -- I already that battle is lost anyway regardless of what happens with Trent.  

And that is fair. The one thing I will say is we are seeing a lot more of these guys decide to hold out with 2 years left on their contracts. At some point. You have to hold them to the commitment they made. Yes. the team can cut you you on a dime without any reason at all. But that is what the CBA allows. IMO. And MO means dick, If you sign a contract honor it or pound sand.

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

No guarantee the Texans wanted a broken down 30 year old LT that cant stay healthy.

 

 

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Why do we say it? Because it is true. Trent is a broken down 30 YO LT that cant stay healthy. People on here are nuts with the value they think he carries.

 

 

[clskinsfan]

Now you know why I have @Volsmet blocked. He CLAIMS to be this insider and drops posts like the garbage above. How about bringing some intelligence to the discussion. Trent is a broken down 30+YO left tackle that cant stay healthy. And no matter how many stupid memes or gifs you post it wont change that fact. By the way. You can respond owever you want. But I wont open it and look at it. Because I know whatever your response is will be worthless.

Edited September 1 by clskinsfan

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Or you go young and trade for Tunsil. Let him grow with the young team you have on offense. 

 

Well we don't have to pay Trent if that's what you're referring to. The only person that is taking money is Smith. Not much the Skins can do about that now. 

 

Or, you don’t know anything.

 

 

Just now, clskinsfan said:

Now you know why I have @Volsmet blocked. He CLAIMS to be this insider and drops posts like the garbage above. How about bringing some intelligence to the discussion. Trent is a broken down 30+YO left tackle that cant stay healthy. And no matter how many stupid memes or gifs you post it wont change that fact. By the way. You can respond owever you want. But I wont open it and look at it. Because I know whatever your response is will be worthless.

 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am not throwing in the towel on what they could pull for Trent but I'll put out there right now that Bruce has the potential to have a signature move here (and not in a good way) if Trent at this point isn't dealt for a haul.  

 

@volsmet is very connected as to personnel, he has a number of relatives in the business.  So when he said the Texans and Bruce talked trade but they were put off by Bruce's manner/social skills -- I believe it. 

 

Not to mention, making demands only to rebuff those who meet, and exceed, them. 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

I respect you Skinsinparadise. But I have Volsmet blocked for a reason. He TELLS YOU he is connected but I have yet to see ANYTHING that tells me that is the truth.

 

You have me blocked while searching for that evidence. You may need an iq injection.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

And that is fair. The one thing I will say is we are seeing a lot more of these guys decide to hold out with 2 years left on their contracts. At some point. You have to hold them to the commitment they made. Yes. the team can cut you you on a dime without any reason at all. But that is what the CBA allows. IMO. And MO means dick, If you sign a contract honor it or pound sand.

 

I am with you about honoring a contract but I am not 100% sure that this is all that's going on.  It might be.   I'll simplify my thinking to bring it home.

 

A.  The only thing I think this FO does well is draft good college players.  Fortunately that's an important thing to do well.

 

B.  I don't think a Dan-Bruce run FO will ever have a good culture.  It's just not IMO how they roll.  So even if they have moments, it will be squandered away in short order with something else.    So banking on a good culture from the FO is something that I don't even think about it because I don't think it's possible. 

 

C.  So give Kyle Smith as many shots at the draft as possible to get good college players.  It's our only hope IMO.

 

This team doesn't roll as for obtaining high picks for veterans in the draft.  Anyone would likely admit here, if we saw on twitter that we got a haul like what the Dolphins did -- we'd be so floored and amazed and elated that we wouldn't know what do with ourselves.  In part because its soooo not Redskins like.  At best, we get late round picks for our failing players from time to time.  But heck just getting a 3rd rounder for a veteran is a pipe dream let alone a first and change.  (aside from comp picks which are in effect really 4th rounders because they are at the end of the 3rd round).

 

Changing this as a way of doing business is to me a big culture change in itself.  Part of the Dan losing culture IMO is about always operating like they are close to success.  The Dolphins in the last 4 years had almost the identical record to ours.  Their take of it was enough is enough -- mediocrity stinks so lets reset aggressively.  Dan never does that.  And I don't think its an accident that we are the only team in the NFL who hasn't won more than 10 games in the last 20 years plus.  

 

So even if the point is culture change.  I see trading Trent for major assets as a much bigger deal on that front than making a point to him. 

 

Edited September 1 by Skinsinparadise

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Anyone who thinks the Texans offered that for Trent is delusional. Tunsil is far younger and the deal included Kenny Stills.

 

Unless those people saw the exact trade, Miami asked for, posted on this forum, months before espn insiders shared it with you.

 

What are the odds of that, though.

 

 

2 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

and the deal included Kenny Stills.

 

I will admit, I’m surprised he was available.

 

[bakedtater1]

Simmer down yall..more people blocking other people then trent has been blocking defenders in a year

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

And you and Jogging may be right. Maybe the offer for Trent was less. Maybe it was a first and a third. Maybe we could have juiced that to a second with Doctson or maybe not.

 

Still, Williams was the lobster and Tusil is a good crab. Even if it was less it would have been a great haul for us. If it was equal or superior then it really was GM negligence. Chances are, we never will know.

 

Tunsil isn’t particularly good at football.

 

[clskinsfan]

3 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Simmer down yall..more people blocking other people then trent has been blocking defenders in a year

 

Or 4-6 games the past five years?

[CjSuAvE22]

2 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Or you go young and trade for Tunsil. Let him grow with the young team you have on offense. 

 

Well we don't have to pay Trent if that's what you're referring to. The only person that is taking money is Smith. Not much the Skins can do about that now. 

Yeah but oaying him isnt the issue who cares if we dont have to pay him how does him not showing up affect our salary cap situation?

[volsmet]

59 minutes ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

 

I think you're just as guilty at knowing nothing. You don't even know if the Texans contacted the Skins. 

 

Not that literacy is everything, but it’s something, and clearly, you have nothing.

 

 

55 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

How do you know they called at all? 

 

 

53 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Personally if Trent stays healthy, he will be better than Tunsil probably at least until he's 45.  

 

[volsmet]

54 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

We can say screw you.

 

The art of negotiation 101 — is in session.

54 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

And that has A LOT to do with his trade value.

 

This guy.

54 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

Hold on a minute. Not wrong? HE SINGED THE CONTRACT. If you dont want to honor it. DONT SIGN IT.

 

If I may, stop jerking off so near your caps lock, it gets stuck.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

MMQ

They finally internalized that sense of urgency and acquired the second best offensive tackle (theoretically) on the market (Trent Williams remains in Washington). 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/08/31/houston-texans-laremy-tunsil-kenny-stills-jadeveon-clowney-bill-obrien?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com&__twitter_impression=true

 

https://www.profootballnetwork.com/laremy-tunsil-traded/

Pro Football Network learned earlier that despite what Miami told Tunsil’s agent Jimmy Sexton, the Dolphins soured on him. Evidently, he was lackadaisical and consistently lacked urgency. Not playing Tunsil in preseason games was a pre-cursor to this outcome, according to some league sources.

As reported earlier this week by our very own Matthew Cannata and later confirmed by NFL Draftinsider Tony Pauline, Tunsil was one of the many players the Dolphins have dangling as trade bait.

 

 

 

 

 

[wit33]

4 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

How do you know that? We haven't dealt him for anything yet, who knows where the value would land. Especially without the Texans in the game.

 

True.

 

We won’t know until we know. Tunsil deals provides a little behind the scenes look at LT value. From what I’ve heard, he’s solid, but not spectacular. 

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Maybe.  Luck would be the key variable one way or another.  

 

This is totally slanted lol

 

FO can’t do right with this logic. 

Edited September 1 by wit33

[Califan007]

2 hours ago, desertbeagle85 said:

 

Which makes Bruce a complete moron when it comes to this. You always pickup the phone. 

 

OF course they picked up the phone...how else are you gonna tell anyone you're not interested in trading Williams? lol...

[Skinsinparadise]

24 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

 

We won’t know until we know. Tunsil deals provides a little behind the scenes look at LT value. From what I’ve heard, he’s solid, but not spectacular. 

 

This is totally slanted lol

 

FO can’t do right with this logic. 

 

I get you often want to defend the FO when challenged but I think you are over read some of my posts on that front.  How does me saying waiting until the trade deadline will require some luck for it to pay off have anything to do with FO can't do right no matter what? 

 

It's pretty basic logic i think.  If they gamble and it works -- then nice job.  If they don't -- then it was a poor risk.  Holding off until the trade deadline to trade Trent IMO assumes more risk which can either add or decrease the payoff.   Whomever acquires Trent will get significantly less of Trent versus acquiring him now.   A desperate team might be ok with that and give up the same capital for 9 games of Trent versus 16.  But it doesn't sound outlandish to me that a team might not be willing to give up the same.  Would i pay the same price for a half a pizza versus a whole pizza?  I guess if I were starving I would otherwise i wouldn't.  I can't predict that in advance.  

 

So I am not going to pat them on the back in advance for waiting until the deadline if that's how they rolled.  I'd judge based on how it went down.  If i put $500 on the table playing craps in Vegas versus $50 -- I am not going to congratulate myself in advance for putting down more money unless the risk actually paid off.  Whether its a good move or bad move would be based on the results.   Unless your question is straight out would I wait until the trade deadline to trade him versus trade him earlier.  I'd trade him earlier. 

 

 

Edited September 1 by Skinsinparadise

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Changing this as a way of doing business is to me a big culture change in itself.  Part of the Dan losing culture IMO is about always operating like they are close to success.  The Dolphins in the last 4 years had almost the identical record to ours.  Their take of it was enough is enough -- mediocrity stinks so lets reset aggressively.  Dan never does that.  And I don't think its an accident that we are the only team in the NFL who hasn't won more than 10 games in the last 20 years plus.  

 

So even if the point is culture change.  I see trading Trent for major assets as a much bigger deal on that front than making a point to him. 

 

 

The culture angle is so true. I don’t think the Skins have a shot at having a great culture. It will unfortunately have to come from an elite QB (though, I thought Alex had the chance to have a strong impact as an average QB, but his intangibles are elite) or group of defensive players (maybe this group— hopefully). 

 

Unfortunately, when relying on players it will be much more fleeting. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

The culture angle is so true. I don’t think the Skins have a shot at having a great culture. It will unfortunately have to come from an elite QB (though, I thought Alex had the chance to have a strong impact as an average QB, but his intangibles are elite) or group of defensive players (maybe this group— hopefully). 

 

Unfortunately, when relying on players it will be much more fleeting. 

 

Alex is a great guy but IMO not a great QB.  But if you have a great QB, I think it can override a bad culture and for that matter holes on a roster.  So to me right now it all rides on Haskins -- hopefully he's the goods.   

Edited September 1 by Skinsinparadise