RandyHolt Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 If road fan attendance is ANY measure of winning off the field, we are in last place. Does anyone know a stadium more overrun than ours? I heard Bruce was also voted worst GM. It sounds like someone is gunning for a promotion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: That sounds great when you put it like that, but one of the hardest parts of being a good GM in the NFL, is aligning all the pieces that work together at the same time. It's more than just drafting good players, it's about foresight and effectively managing resources. Bruce has never shown the ability to do that in his life. Yeah. Hes done well drafting and not blowing picks. But our draft pick retention is not great. So from that resource perspective, there is work to be done. From financial recourses… jury is still out IMO. Yes, we have more $$ dedicated to the offense than any team and on paper there isn't a ton to show for that amount of money. But who could have saw Alex Smith's injury. (Whether he should have got that contract is a different conversation, but everyone can admit what Bruce was trying to do). But we have not been in cap hell like we were with Vinny. Hell, green bay's GM was probably one of the worst. But if you get that QB, you can mask a lot of that. Lets hope the rookie is that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said: We're in a position where Jay really needs to win to keep his job, the defense is built, and we've got an exciting young QB prospect. Jay is the biggest loser in all of this. I really like the guy and think he is a great leader of men. Not sure if he can cut it with the gameplans anymore. But he really knows how to navigate the leadership role and I'd like him to stick around. Hopefully the FO takes that into consideration like Philadelphia did with Brett Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said: People forget how much Mara ****ed us. We had no ability to fill out the OL, and Griff lasted 3 quarters of a season before his career ended. The hardest part of being a GM is finding the qb. The next hardest is not putting him out there until you have the pieces around him that can keep him up. Its why most terrible franchises never find success, and the best franchises seem to be able to seemlessly transition to the next guy. You gotta take a measured approach to this. YES!!!! And I think are approach has been measured. We just have a lot riding on Haskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 14 minutes ago, hatchetwound said: Hypothetical question: Lets say we did a 3 way trade like I laid out below. And pretend the draft picks we receive are the same no matter which of those two teams involved. Would you rather have Team X be Seattle or Eagles. On one hand, we get our picks and now Clowny in the division, so Seattle would be my kneejerk reaction. I wouldn't care either way. I am not in love with Clowney but I think he's good. The Eagles are stacked and well run. They do well with their draft picks. But they also often do well with trades and FA. Roseman >>>>>>> Bruce. Since I don't see this team in the same conversation with the Eagles, what they do and what they don't do doesn't really concern me. I am not as bleak as the national prognosticators about this team but I do think alas they are on the money that its the Eagles-Dallas in one tier and us and the Giants on the other tier. This could change next year perhaps if Haskins emerges but for now I don't sweat the Eagles. Now if Wentz got hurt again my opinion would change -- I am not rooting for him or any player to get hurt but just saying I don't think they overcome him going down that easily now that Foles is gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 20 minutes ago, hatchetwound said: But our draft pick retention is not great. So from that resource perspective, there is work to be done. It's more than just draft pick retention though. Everything has to align from a timing standpoint. Rookie deals don't last forever. It requires a long term plan and the ability to shake and move when things don't go according to plan. There is so much more to it than simply draft, draft, draft good players. 20 minutes ago, hatchetwound said: From financial recourses… jury is still out IMO. Yes, we have more $$ dedicated to the offense than any team and on paper there isn't a ton to show for that amount of money. But who could have saw Alex Smith's injury. (Whether he should have got that contract is a different conversation, but everyone can admit what Bruce was trying to do). But we have not been in cap hell like we were with Vinny. With or without the Alex Smith injury, that was an absolutely awful move made in an effort to try and make folks forget about Kirk walking for nothing. We may not be in cap hell, but we certainly aren't in cap heaven. The results of the Cerrato regime really aren't far apart than the current one. Take Alex out of the equation and look at where most of the salary cap on this team is going. We are paying or have paid a premium for less than premium performance. Kirk's 2nd franchise tag, Alex Smith, Josh Norman, Jordan Reed, Morgan Moses, Paul Richardson, and the list goes on. I'm not saying all these guys are terrible, but they all signed rather large deals for what the team has gotten out of them. That's simply not the type of resource management that leads to winning Super Bowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: I wouldn't care either way. I am not in love with Clowney but I think he's good. The Eagles are stacked and well run. They do well with their draft picks. But they also often do well with trades and FA. Roseman >>>>>>> Bruce. Since I don't see this team in the same conversation with the Eagles, what they do and what they don't do doesn't really concern me. I am not as bleak as the national prognosticators about this team but I do think alas they are on the money that its the Eagles-Dallas in one tier and us and the Giants on the other tier. This could change next year perhaps if Haskins emerges but for now I don't sweat the Eagles. Now if Wentz got hurt again opinion might change -- I am not rooting for him or any player to get hurt but just saying I don't think they overcome him going down that easily. That's kind of why I like the idea of taking their picks. They look good now, but that is about to change. They are already up against the cap and now have less room to maneuver now that they signed their broken down ginger QB to a mega deal. So they can't hit FA for talent. Lets take their picks and hurt them long term Plus lets not pretend their GM is some master negotiater. He is riding the reputation he built with his 2017 FA class. But he has had a LOT of misses as well. Literally everyone in his 2018 FA class was bust to just average. Nagta… worthless. Mike Wallace.... lasted two games. Trade a 3rd for golden tate? The only "good" pick up, really, average, was Bennett. And was he better than what they let go? No. And he wastes picks like Vinny. 5 in 2018 (2nd fewest in nfl). 5 in 2019 (fewest in nfl). So is he bad? No. But people treat him like NFL royalty and really, he is just a bit better than average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I'm convinced Trent is using DHall to speak to the public. No other reason to keep talking to this dude when he goes running to a microphone everytime to tell folks what you just said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, justice98 said: I'm convinced Trent is using DHall to speak to the public. No other reason to keep talking to this dude when he goes running to a microphone everytime to tell folks what you just said. Always have a fall guy. Cris Carter taught him well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, hatchetwound said: That's kind of why I like the idea of taking their picks. They look good now, but that is about to change. They are already up against the cap and now have less room to maneuver now that they signed their broken down ginger QB to a mega deal. So they can't hit FA for talent. Lets take their picks and hurt them long term Plus lets not pretend their GM is some master negotiater. He is riding the reputation he built with his 2017 FA class. But he has had a LOT of misses as well. Literally everyone in his 2018 FA class was bust to just average. Nagta… worthless. Mike Wallace.... lasted two games. Trade a 3rd for golden tate? The only "good" pick up, really, average, was Bennett. And was he better than what they let go? No. And he wastes picks like Vinny. 5 in 2018 (2nd fewest in nfl). 5 in 2019 (fewest in nfl). So is he bad? No. But people treat him like NFL royalty and really, he is just a bit better than average. I've made this point many times on the GM thread so I'll do the short version here. Parcells likes say the best Gm's bat 50-50. I wouldn't go that far but no doubt that all GMs have plenty of misses. John Schneider, who many say is the best GM in the game, had 2 drafts that were outright bad. Chris Ballard who is now celebrated for turning around the Colts roster, got off to a rough start doing it. On and on. For Roseman, getting a first round pick and change for Bradford and inching his way up the draft to get Wentz were great moves. Assuming Wentz stays healthy. Heck Nick Foles they got for a ham sandwich and they still got the same compensation for him that we got for Kirk. They've been able to maneuver the cap to keep some of their key players and do so proactively: L. Johnson, Ertz, F. Cox They have built via the draft and acquisitions a stout O line and D line. Heck one of the hyped rookies of this off season is Andre Dillard who is looking like a stud O lineman. If I recall Gil Brandt said recently this is the most talented roster in the whole NFL. I'd presume the dude is doing something right. The Eagles record during his tenure (7 years) 4 playoff seasons, just 2 losing seasons, multiple division winners and a SB -- can you imagine if we had that here? Does he have misses? Sure. They all do. Like I said some GMs have outright full bad off seasons but the bottom line IMO is how does the whole pie add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchetwound Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 We did. With Gibbs 1.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, hatchetwound said: We did. With Gibbs 1.0 Sure, I lived through it. But alas that was long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I watched the Bruce interview, I don't remember him saying Trent would show up to Redskins park next week, is this just crafty wordplay by Trent? He could have told D Hall "I'm not playing for this team this year or ever". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 16 minutes ago, justice98 said: I'm convinced Trent is using DHall to speak to the public. No other reason to keep talking to this dude when he goes running to a microphone everytime to tell folks what you just said. By the sounds of it, Trent blows off calls and text messages from reporters. But he seems to willing to talk to some ex teammates. Adrian, Santana and D. Hall all mentioned talking to him directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Trent will have a preference as to which team he wants to play for in 2019 and you can guarantee Bruce knows that. Trent and Bruce many not blink, it all may well rest with the third party/other team to buckle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said: 1. He is under contract for 2 more years. Trent would be destroying his reputation by sitting those 2 years and any future contract negotiations will be 1 year hired-gun deals. ( see Ndamukong Suh). Except Trent is one joint away from being out for a year. He has no leverage at all right now. The redskins have it all. Trent has made it clear through his proxies that money won't pose a problem to him because he already has a lot stashed away, and therefore doesn't mind missing time and paychecks. If he's truly sick of the team and is willing to give up money, what leverage do we have over him? We have a cancer in this team: This whole Trent Williams situation. We are provided two options to solve it: 1. Cut it out and somehow actually manage to profit from it, or..... 2. Refuse to cut out the cancer and let it grow because it feels good to "stand up to" cancer. Even on the small chance he comes back here and plays, he's still going to be examined by everyone under a microscope by people who want to know if he's in it 100%. If he's not in it 100%, that's going to be noticed in the locker room, and it will fester. All for the sake of keeping leverage over someone who seemingly doesn't care whether we have leverage or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 20 minutes ago, justice98 said: I'm convinced Trent is using DHall to speak to the public. No other reason to keep talking to this dude when he goes running to a microphone everytime to tell folks what you just said. Agreed. He must know the conversations will get aired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Allen's remarks were enough to spark a new podcast episode from Hall, a former Redskins safety, with his 'Hail to the Podcast' co-host Erin Hawksworth. They began the episode by playing the Allen comments above and responding with their own personal insights into the situation. "We're hearing from Trent's side of things, rumors I heard coming out of Redskins Park that he was possibly gonna show up next week," said Hawksworth. '"And then we hear this from Bruce Allen. What's your takeaway from this?" "I heard those same reports, Erin, and I was kinda like, 'Wow. He's gonna show up, Trent?' Let me know," replied Hall. "I had to text him: 'Hey bro, let me know before you show up so I can report it first.' And so I reached out to him, and he's like, 'There's zero chance I'll be in that building next week.' "And so I hear from some whispers that he might show up, and then I talk to him and he's like, 'Nah, I'm not showing up. We haven't talked. We haven't addressed the issues.'" "And so, it's kinda like at what point do you, as the Washington Redskins organization, say, 'Hey look. We gotta get something for this guy.' You know what I mean?" Hall continued. "That's the fine line. You hear Bruce say, 'Look. I know Trent's gonna play football and it's gonna be with us.' I don't know. I don't know how they get to that point. You know what I mean, Erin?" Hawksworth noted she's observed Williams isn't the biggest fan of Allen, which seems be in conflict with Allen claiming Williams will play football again for the Redskins. Hall took exception with her characterization of Williams and Allen's relationship. "Hey, Erin. I don't know if I'd agree with Trent isn't Bruce's biggest fan, because I know firsthand that those guys talk a lot, or I know they talked a lot before this situation came up," he said. "Trent was always a guy in Bruce's office, and Trent aspires to be in the front office at some point in his career as well." "He kinda has those same aspirations I do, because I think I and he feels like we know what it takes to kinda put a winning formula together," he continued. "And so I know Trent is constantly talking to Bruce before this situation came up, so I do want to clarify that part of it." https://thefandc.radio.com/deangelo-hall-zero-chance-trent-williams-returns-next-week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Ok, so Hawksworth and Russell have heard rumors that the team was saying Trent was coming back next week which now makes this a new story that can get some more clicks. Gotcha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Kind of weird how much failure surrounds this team under Bruce and yet he still has a job. Just so odd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 So Trent told Hall he hasn't even talked to Bruce. So it's just like the Cousins negotiations where we erroneously think we've put our best foot forward and just wait it out...that is going to fail hard. Again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 6 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: So Trent told Hall he hasn't even talked to Bruce. So it's just like the Cousins negotiations where we erroneously think we've put our best foot forward and just wait it out...that is going to fail hard. Again. I think there are several notable differences between the Cousins situation. I agree they can’t afford to get next to nothing for a valuable asset, I also don’t want Bruce to just settle for a late first when we should and will be able to get more just because he’s getting antsy about repeating a Cousins mistake. It’s a different situation with different circumstances. In the end I think he’s moved, and I think we’ll appreciate not just jumping at a second or whatever and calling it a day. But I’ll be right there with you if he just rots on our bench and never recoup anything for him. Long way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idaho fan Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Trent, Zeke, Gordon, Clowny... all unique situations but it seems like big name hold outs is becoming more common. Has there been a year with this many big names holding out? Wonder if next year we will see more than this year. Thinking owners are getting nervous and are probably hoping these teams put their foot down especially on players with two years left on their contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Mike Jones was just on, he said checking around that Trent hasn't budged from his position and neither have the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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