!!!!0mgz!!!! Trent Williams finally showed up

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said:

If you are using Sua Cravens as proof to corroborate whatever the hell you want to believe around Redskins park, I think you may be too far gone to save at this point. My Lordy. 

You’re right. It’s a well oiled machine over there.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

So, you're thinking that the Skins' med staff did NOT suggest he get a 2nd opinion?

I'm not thinking anything other than it makes absolutely no sense for Trent to be mad at the team to the extent he wants a bunch of guys fired, for suggesting he get a second opinion.  There has to be more to it than that.  

 

 

[TouchdownSkin]

16 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

You know what I find unbelievable? A mega-millionaire with access to any doctor in the world doesn’t get a second opinion on the lump on his head, regardless of what the team doctors told him.  

 

If i develop a lump on my head, I’m getting at least 2 opinions to make damn sure it’s nothing serious, and I don’t have 1/100th of Trent’s means. 

 

That’s what just boggles my mind. 

 

This!  He’s a big boy.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Since when Redskins' fans care about how other franchise deal with this kind of stuff?

1

 

Fans always seem to care about other franchises when it's used to show how dysfunctional the Redskins are.

[TradeTheBeal!]

19 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You’re right. It’s a well oiled machine over there.

 

Just wait until they open the Oncology Research Center!

[@DCGoldPants]

24 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not thinking anything other than it makes absolutely no sense for Trent to be mad at the team to the extent he wants a bunch of guys fired, for suggesting he get a second opinion.  There has to be more to it than that.  

 

 

 

To be fair, he also thought he should have been the highest paid tackle even with his suspensions. So, let's not pretend that he's always on the up and up either. Plenty of blame to share. This stinks of an adult who does not take ownership of his health, and when he got scared. He looked to be mad at anybody other than himself. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

53 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

ProFootballtalk exists for a reason.  I think everyone is well aware of the drama that exists everywhere.  

 

I just wonder if fans of other historically inept teams tend to make martyrs out of the whistleblowers like we do.  

1

 

Saying things like "Poor Redskins, always ending up with these crazy, greedy, malcontents," "But one must ask themselves, why this franchise is a magnet for axes to grind" and "For whatever reason, drama seems to follow this team" would seem to indicate that you feel these things are more specific to the Redskins than other teams, though.

 

To me, I don't ask myself why this happens to the Redskins...because I know why it does. It's because it happens to every team in the NFL. It's not a sign of dysfunction or ineptitude, it's a sign that this is a multi-billion dollar entertainment industry being run by all sorts of franchise owners with all sorts of business backgrounds and all levels of intelligence, stupidity, and greed...and filled with a lot of immature players who were made instant millionaires and who come into the league with a certain sense of entitlement, which is only made worse by all the "yes men," hangers-on, and unscrupulous people in their circles who want part of their money.

 

And I'm not sure what whistle has been blown here lol...we still don't know what exactly Trent's beef is so we don't know whether or not it's a valid one. If the Skins' medical staff did nothing wrong then there is no whistle TO blow...and whether fans want to believe it or not, that is absolutely a realistic possibility.

 

 

[NewCliche21]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Mike Jones this morning thinks this is mostly about money.  He admits though he hasn't heard from Trent or his agent and they are staying quiet.

 

I am not landing on a position until I know what happened but if its money i am not with Trent unless its purely about adding more guaranteed.   The idea that some say that he is annoyed about multiple things but can be bought off by more money -- I find that annoying.  If you are standing by principle then really stand by it.  If that's truly the case.

 

Hopefully this is over soon or Trent speaks.

 

About the bolded part, I'm not sure if I can agree there.  How many of us have legit grievances as fans that can be bought off with wins?  It's not the same thing, but everyone has a price for everything, principles be damned.  When we signed Foster, if we signed Hill, if we had taken a flier on Ray Rice, a whole bunch of people's opinions changed/would change.  Principles matter until they interfere with getting what you want.

I hate everything about what I just wrote, but I couldn't fault the man for ultimately just wanting to get paid for his job.  I wouldn't like it, but I couldn't fault him.

[Llevron]

Craven is probably a loon. Skins are probably handling injuries poorly and a generally mismanaged. Both can be true. 

 

****ed up part is nobody would pay Craven any attention if the NFL and Redskins weren't so bad at this kind of stuff so often that they lost the benefit of a doubt. But they are, so, here we go. 

[@DCGoldPants]

I heard on Kevin this Am, I think it was on a tweet from "Neil" who calls in a lot. 

 

Basically wondering if the reason Trent and his agent aren't speaking is because "what if the Skins can prove he's not telling the truth" would turn into giving them the leverage.

 

In short. Having his people talk off the record to beat reports is one thing, but making a statement like something around being told to get a 2nd opinion could blow up in his face.

 

So ready for culture improvement. So ready for more Jonathan Allen types. If that means moving on from talent players who can be headaches. I'm all for it. Steelers were smart to move on from Brown (and maybe Bell). The Patriots wouldn't deal with this. Guessing Green Bay also. 

 

I want to root for the franchise who is loaded with work-hard character guys who aren't "when healthy" types. Give me a roster of healthy blue collar lunchpail types who are smart and know what they are supposed to be doing.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

There is more drama with the Redskins than with other teams. Yes, drama is not exclusive to the Redskins. Yes, every team deals with drama to some degree.

 

The Redskins have more of it (with a good chunk being self-inflicted) and handle it worse than other organizations.

 

Edit: This Trent Williams situation is pretty typical of standard drama that teams deal with across the league so I’m somewhat off topic on the thread... in totality, we are a poorly run organization though.

[Veryoldschool]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch_Fz2Np-Z4

[Califan007 The Constipated]

5 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

There is more drama with the Redskins than with other teams.

 

 

How do you quantify that, though?...I think most of us base it off of how it feels and little else.

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

How do you quantify that, though?...I think most of us base it off of how it feels and little else.

 

Name change thing sticks out. No other squads with that. 

 

Though the Patriots have Craft and the Colts have the one drug addict 

 

dunno man lol

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Name change thing sticks out. No other squads with that. 

 

Though the Patriots have Craft and the Colts have the one drug addict 

 

dunno man lol

 

 

lol...yeah, it would be difficult to measure the different dramas that surface around the league each year. 

 

And don't forget the Colts' assistant coach having his house shot up with 80 rounds of ammo.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

About the bolded part, I'm not sure if I can agree there.  How many of us have legit grievances as fans that can be bought off with wins?  It's not the same thing, but everyone has a price for everything, principles be damned.  When we signed Foster, if we signed Hill, if we had taken a flier on Ray Rice, a whole bunch of people's opinions changed/would change.  Principles matter until they interfere with getting what you want.

I hate everything about what I just wrote, but I couldn't fault the man for ultimately just wanting to get paid for his job.  I wouldn't like it, but I couldn't fault him.

 

I think though that's a little different.  

 

Trent I believe has already made about 80 million in his career give or take.  He was drafted before the rookie contracts kicked in so he's been making good money from day 1.  His last contract made him the highest paid LT in the league at the time.  My point is if he wants more money, then just run with that angle IMO.   If it's all about principle as some say, then ride that.  I don't see how both points cross sect.   I can't see how he can both say he's standing on principle but he'd let go of said principle if they'd splash him more cash.   Otherwise isn't the point being made that you have some high minded principles but you can overlook all these principles if given more cash.  If so then how high minded are your principles?

 

I get your point that people can be high minded but then can cheat on that front if it serves their purposes.  I agree.  But if this narrative is true about Trent then I think that takes this point to a new strata because they are baking the principles into the discussion of money. 

 

I think a Foster analogy would be something like the FO condemns Foster's actions and say they are reprehensible but they are willing to overlook them if Foster is willing to sign on the cheap.  And if Foster wants a lot of money, they will go back to condemning him.  That would be bizarre.  And to me that would be analogous to Trent being just about principle but will overlook them if he gets a fat contract.  But again I don't know if any of that is true.  I am just saying that narrative turns me off if it is true. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

27 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

How do you quantify that, though?...I think most of us base it off of how it feels and little else.

I mean, I’d be willing to go tit for tat. Somebody pick a team and start listing examples. I bet I can come up with significantly more from the Redskins.

[NewCliche21]

18 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think though that's a little different.  

 

Trent I believe has already made about 80 million in his career give or take.  He was drafted before the rookie contracts kicked in so he's been making good money from day 1.  His last contract made him the highest paid LT in the league at the time.  My point is if he wants more money, then just run with that angle IMO.   If it's all about principle as some say, then ride that.  I don't see how both points cross sect.   I can't see how he can both say he's standing on principle but he'd let go of said principle if they'd splash him more cash.   Otherwise isn't the point being made that you have some high minded principles but you can overlook all these principles if given more cash.  If so then how high minded are your principles?

 

I get your point that people can be high minded but then can cheat on that front if it serves their purposes.  I agree.  But if this narrative is true about Trent then I think that takes this point to a new strata because they are baking the principles into the discussion of money. 

 

I think a Foster analogy would be something like the FO condemns Foster's actions and say they are reprehensible but they are willing to overlook them if Foster is willing to sign on the cheap.  And if Foster wants a lot of money, they will go back to condemning him.  That would be bizarre.  And to me that would be analogous to Trent being just about principle but will overlook them if he gets a fat contract.  But again I don't know if any of that is true.  I am just saying that narrative turns me off if it is true. 

 

The Foster analogy wasn't articulated correctly, my fault.  I was strictly speaking from a fan's perspective, about how any and all grievances can be remedied by some victories (look, I rhymed).

I'm 100% with you on the philosophical/morality end of it, I just think the reality is that $80,000,000 is still less than $80,000,000.01.  I hate that it wins, but it does.

I'm still holding my tongue after overreacting to begin with.  We'll see in 2020 what happened 2019, or at least how it's spun.

[Mooka]

9 hours ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

For me it still comes back to Trent being hurt a lot, and spending so much time away from the team, but not taking ownership of his health. You'd think in Texas he was getting the full James Harrison treatment.

 

He's an adult and veteran in the league while being paid very well. If that were me, I'd go through everything with the team docs to be compliant with the CBA, and then get a 2nd opinion on everything and anything. Especially when the team has to pay for it. Not doing that seems stupid.

 

This sounds like some armchair QBing.

 

For example, the team has to pay for it.

 

Is that true? You can, by policy, seek your own treatment/doctors in the NFL but i doubt their insurance has to pay for it or covers everything.

 

Tons of players complain about the out of pocket medical costs of playing in the NFL and end up bankrupt from painkiller addictions and other things when they leave football due to insufficient insurance.

 

And 2nd opinion on everything is simply not possible. There aint enough time or doctors available.

 

Trent's real injury file is probably 30 pages long.

[Skinsinparadise]

18 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

The Foster analogy wasn't articulated correctly, my fault.  I was strictly speaking from a fan's perspective, about how any and all grievances can be remedied by some victories (look, I rhymed).

I'm 100% with you on the philosophical/morality end of it, I just think the reality is that $80,000,000 is still less than $80,000,000.01.  I hate that it wins, but it does.

I'm still holding my tongue after overreacting to begin with.  We'll see in 2020 what happened 2019, or at least how it's spun.

 

Ok I follow.  Yeah from my point of view (as a fan) as to Trent am not really angry if he wants more money or whatever.  I just have no sympathy for his position if that's his angle.  

 

I want to trade Trent.  And it has nothing to do with any of this stuff.  I want to rebuild some more.  So in this case, the drama doesn't bug me much because I am perfectly fine with what some see as worse case scenario which would be trading him. 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

 

1

2 minutes ago, Mooka said:

 

 

 

For example, the team has to pay for it.

 

Is that true? You can, by policy, seek your own treatment/doctors in the NFL but i doubt their insurance has to pay for it or covers everything.

 

 

 

https://cba.whitfield.football/article-39-players-rights-to-medical-care-and-treatment/
 

Quote

 

Section 4. Player’s Right to a Second Medical Opinion: A player will have the opportunity to obtain a second medical opinion. As a condition of the Club’s responsibility for the costs of medical services rendered by the physician furnishing the second opinion, such physician must be board-certified in his field of medical expertise; in addition,

the player must consult with the Club physician in advance concerning the other physician; and (b) the Club physician must be furnished promptly with a report concerning the diagnosis, examination and course of treatment recommended by the other physician. A player shall have the right to follow the reasonable medical advice given to him by his second opinion physician with respect to diagnosis of injury, surgical and treatment decisions, and rehabilitation and treatment protocol, but only after consulting with the club physician and giving due consideration to his recommendations.

Section 5. Player’s Right to a Surgeon of His Choice: A player will have the right to choose the surgeon who will perform surgery provided that: (a) the player will consult unless impossible (e.g., emergency surgery) with the Club physician as to his recommendation regarding the need for, the timing of and who should perform the surgery; (b) the player will give due consideration to the Club physician’s recommendations; and (c) the surgeon selected by the player shall be board-certified in his field of medical expertise. Any such surgery will be at Club expense; provided, however, that the Club, the Club physician, trainers and any other representative of the Club will not be responsible for or incur any liability (other than the cost of the surgery) for or relating to the adequacy or competency of such surgery or other related medical services rendered in connection with such surgery.

 

 

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

I don't have a clue what the issues are with Trent Williams but it's not at all surprising that a Redskins team captain is holding out, that's how the Redskins roll.  The Redskins are the drama queens of the NFL under Snyder no contest.  Other teams have had issues but nothing like the ongoing dysfunction in DC.  The Redskins are more like a reality TV show than a football franchise under Snyder.  They manage to screw up just about everything that goes well for them including recently pissing off their talented choirboy QB so much he wouldn't sign at any price.   That said, Snyder is a big success in his mind because the value of the franchise has quadrupled during his 20 years. 

 

 

[RabidFan]

If they are playing hardball with Trent, I'm not opposed to it.  If they are planning on trading him as he is pulling a Champ Bailey "i want out" scenario, then do it but wait till get as much as possible.  As preseason goes on, needs from all teams will increase and the value could go up.  

 

Once he is traded or damn close to it, they need to have a written much higher offer (than given before) to Scherff as he has kept quiet and worked every day.  Sounds like Martin is coming along at LG so having youth in the interior OL for years to come would be great.  

[HardcoreZorn]

I still think Trent may be doing us a favor as some others have alluded to. The real window if there is one will be opening 2020 at the earliest. Trents contract will be up the following year anyway. Get really good value before it’s too late and go into the draft next year looking for WR/OL early. Those guys will be part of the run, Trent likely won’t. 

[sempre_victrix]

Trade him for the first good offer we get.  I wish we could trade his ungrateful butt to Miami or Jacksonville, but I'll take whatever offer looks good.