Canadian Hog Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 "After the score was 20-0 we were forced to throw. In the first half we run the ball 2 to 1 more then passing." - JBOOMA This still doesn't explain why we came out on our opening possession in the second half with a reverse for minus 1 yards, followed by two incompletions. Spurrier's playcalling was seriously flawed yesterday, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 I think we are the only team in the NFL that the fans expect the best out of our backups starting[/Quote]This wasn't true as of last night but it is now. 45-7????? :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 15, 2003 Author Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by Demoralized Canadian Hog "After the score was 20-0 we were forced to throw. In the first half we run the ball 2 to 1 more then passing." - JBOOMA This still doesn't explain why we came out on our opening possession in the second half with a reverse for minus 1 yards, followed by two incompletions. Spurrier's playcalling was seriously flawed yesterday, sorry. That was just a way to get Coles the ball, maybe it was a bad call but it also could have been a big gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 yeah JBOOMA, I understand that they wanted to get the ball in Coles hands. But it seems like way too often this season, we are forced to get the ball in LC's hands through a reverse or WR screen. Can we not somehow find a way to throw him the ball in space? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bubba9497 Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by Demoralized Canadian Hog "After the score was 20-0 we were forced to throw. In the first half we run the ball 2 to 1 more then passing." - JBOOMA This still doesn't explain why we came out on our opening possession in the second half with a reverse for minus 1 yards, followed by two incompletions. Spurrier's playcalling was seriously flawed yesterday, sorry. Dallas had stacked the line to stop the run. Roy Williams lined up on the line of scrimmage the whole second half. from 12 minutes in the second quarter we had no runs of longer than 5 yards (only 2) in the second half none of more than 3 yards We couldn't make a 3rd & 1, running the ball You have to take what the defense gives you. Unfortunatly Hasselback couldn't hit the broadside of a barn yesterday. When you are down by two scores or more in the second half, and the other team is grinding out the clock because the DL can stop the run. You suggest running the ball on long 8-9 minutes drives to score 3 TDs? The offense gave the Cowboys this game, 6 turnovers, unable to make first downs, or complete passes..... had nothing to do with game planning or play calling. It was a lack of execution. If you had watched the same game by two other teams (with no loyalities too, or hatred for) No one would have said the game was lost because of the coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Actually, in the first half we called 13 pass plays and 17 run plays. But the details don't really matter. Sorry, when CBS Sportsline's healdine reads Cowboys blank Redskins for first time in 32 years there are no excuses. Is this the worst team we've feilded against the Cowboys in 32 years? Is that what you are saying jbooma? Then I'm sure you predicted such a lop-sided game last week. I'm sure you bashed Kiper for picking us to win, right? In 'The Man' contest, I picked us to lose 24-10. I didn't expect a miracle here. I knew we were hurting and the Cowboys were primed to bounce back and crush us. But there is a world of difference between 24-10 and 27-0. One result can be excused with injuries, an inexperienced coaching staff, bad QB play, the weather ... whatever. There is no excuse for the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted December 15, 2003 Author Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by Henry Is that what you are saying jbooma? Then I'm sure you predicted such a lop-sided game last week. I'm sure you bashed Kiper for picking us to win, right? I thought if we could hold onto the ball and Tim played decent we had a chance. Well we know how that turned out. When you give the ball to the other team which is a better team 6 times you deserve to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauldeluxe Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Yesterday's game (and the other Dallas game) are the perfect illustration of the difference between a coach like Parsells and a coach like Spurrier. Spurrier said that our game plan was built around our expectation that the Cowboys would blitz us like they did last time. And guess what, Parsells didn't blitz us. He's too smart for that. And Spurrier had no back-up plan. The man was outcoached, plain and simple. He said so himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD_washingtonredskins Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Jbooma's initial post is probably one of the biggest problems this team has. We have 7 or 8 players that make up the majority of our talent. Then we try to supplement those couple of players with a bunch of guys that would have to overachieve for us to get our expected results. I have no clue how to do this, but it would be best to have a bunch of players with about the same talent playing with one another. That would be better for the cap and for performance IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian Hog Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 When you are down by two scores or more in the second half, and the other team is grinding out the clock because the DL can stop the run. You suggest running the ball on long 8-9 minutes drives to score 3 TDs? - BUBBA9497 Bubba.....I see what you are saying, but let's remember that at 14-0 with a full half of football still to play, there is no reason to stop running the football. Especially when you are getting the ball first in the second half. Due to our insistence on throwing the football, in crap conditions I might add, we started out the second half with a brilliant 3 and out. The last thing that we needed. Now I'm not saying this lost us the football game (we were in trouble long before that), but at least keep the ball in Rock's hands. He had over 60 yards midway through the second quarter. It wasn't that bad an idea to keep running considering Hasselbeck's inability to throw yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by speedwagon20 Jbooma's initial post is probably one of the biggest problems this team has. We have 7 or 8 players that make up the majority of our talent. Then we try to supplement those couple of players with a bunch of guys that would have to overachieve for us to get our expected results. I have no clue how to do this, but it would be best to have a bunch of players with about the same talent playing with one another. That would be better for the cap and for performance IMO. We have problems all over the place. One of the things that I would hope would be realized by some posters on this board after watching yesterday is how serious a deficiency it is to have LBs who are not performing comparable to the amount they are touted, paired with safeties who are fairly inconsistent- and I would say tend to play poorly more than well. Compare that to the safeties of other teams in the leage- Dawkins, Woodson, Williams, and look at the play of those defenses- look at the impact those players are making- do you think that is ALL scheme (some, yes, but all- I don't think so)? And we pick up Taylor Jacobs in the draft. I wasn't a big Mike Doss fan, but I wanted to see that they recognized a big problem and fixed it- Bowen and Ohalete are actually (in my opinion) improvement over what we've had in the past, but there is still a big problem there if you ask me. It doesn't help that our 7 or 8 have not been playing to their potential this year, due to injury or other issues. BTW, our coach does have issues- I think that, as others have pointed out I believe- no one is blameless when a game like yesterday's is played. I was pretty ashamed of our fans yesterday as well. Why do so many Redskin fans sell their tickets to opposing team fans ? I assume that is what is happening given our long waiting list... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by Demoralized Canadian Hog When you are down by two scores or more in the second half, and the other team is grinding out the clock because the DL can stop the run. You suggest running the ball on long 8-9 minutes drives to score 3 TDs? - BUBBA9497 Bubba.....I see what you are saying, but let's remember that at 14-0 with a full half of football still to play, there is no reason to stop running the football. Especially when you are getting the ball first in the second half. Due to our insistence on throwing the football, in crap conditions I might add, we started out the second half with a brilliant 3 and out. The last thing that we needed. Now I'm not saying this lost us the football game (we were in trouble long before that), but at least keep the ball in Rock's hands. He had over 60 yards midway through the second quarter. It wasn't that bad an idea to keep running considering Hasselbeck's inability to throw yesterday. I think you picked THE drive that I too would use to criticize Spurrier today. In the game thread, I posted that the opening drive of the second half would be extremely important. We had surrendered... 4 TOs in the first half I think... and were only down by 14. You open the second half with a positive drive, and even if you punt, you try to pin them back a bit and take away some positives about what works. Instead, the team loses yardage and punts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Jbooma, One of the things you said in this thread that do I agree with is how momentum is so important. The Skins were building some momentum in the second quarter running Rock and making some stops on defense. We got the ball in the second quarter and ran rock 3 plays in a row for a first down. You could see that we were getting great blocks from the oline and the Pukes were having a tough time stopping us. So after this crucial first down, what does Steve do? That's right, pitch it around some. Within a few plays we had given the ball back to Dallas and it was over. It was raining friggin sideways, our qb is as green as grass, we're running it well, and SOS throws on first. That just isn't smart any way you slice it. That incompletion on first and 10 was a total momentum killer. Sure, Steve didn't throw the pics, but he put Tim in position to throw them. In those kind of conditions, you keep running it until the other team stops you period. If the other team walks up the safeties, then you have a better chance of making some completions. Also, I think it's maybe a little unfair to be to hard on Morton for the muffed punt. That was a booming punt in a driving rain. You could tell he couldn't see the ball, it hit him on the facemask. SOS's trademark all year has been blowing calls right when we're starting to get some momentum going. He is totally predictable and has zero flow to his playcalling. The best call he made all day, and maybe all season, was the fake punt. Now that was a nice play.:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by GSF Jbooma, One of the things you said in this thread that do I agree with is how momentum is so important. The Skins were building some momentum in the second quarter running Rock and making some stops on defense. We got the ball in the second quarter and ran rock 3 plays in a row for a first down. You could see that we were getting great blocks from the oline and the Pukes were having a tough time stopping us. So after this crucial first down, what does Steve do? That's right, pitch it around some. Within a few plays we had given the ball back to Dallas and it was over. It was raining friggin sideways, our qb is as green as grass, we're running it well, and SOS throws on first. That just isn't smart any way you slice it. That incompletion on first and 10 was a total momentum killer. Sure, Steve didn't throw the pics, but he put Tim in position to throw them. In those kind of conditions, you keep running it until the other team stops you period. If the other team walks up the safeties, then you have a better chance of making some completions. Also, I think it's maybe a little unfair to be to hard on Morton for the muffed punt. That was a booming punt in a driving rain. You could tell he couldn't see the ball, it hit him on the facemask. SOS's trademark all year has been blowing calls right when we're starting to get some momentum going. He is totally predictable and has zero flow to his playcalling. The best call he made all day, and maybe all season, was the fake punt. Now that was a nice play.:doh: FYI, Sonny said that the pick Tim threw on the one ok drive we had (although it took a fake punt to get it there, I believe) was done on an audible. Why you audible to that type of pass in those conditions in that situation, I don't know. Terrible idea by Tim if Sonny is correct. Whatever the case, they still could get out of the mess in the second half, which of course they completely failed to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSF Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by SkinsNumberOne FYI, Sonny said that the pick Tim threw on the one ok drive we had (although it took a fake punt to get it there, I believe) was done on an audible. Why you audible to that type of pass in those conditions in that situation, I don't know. Terrible idea by Tim if Sonny is correct. Whatever the case, they still could get out of the mess in the second half, which of course they completely failed to do. Thanks for the info. The audible for the pic was on the fade to Coles. Serious duck. That play hasn't been a good one for Tim. I'm pretty sure that was the only audible into a pass in the whole game. You didn't really think we had a chance to come back form 14 in the second half did you? In those playing conditions against the Pukes pass D? I'm not saying we would have won had Spurrier ran it on that first and 10, but we would have had a much better chance. That was a game changing play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TC4 Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 We are like starved animals feeding on each other here :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsNumberOne Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Originally posted by GSF Thanks for the info. The audible for the pic was on the fade to Coles. Serious duck. That play hasn't been a good one for Tim. I'm pretty sure that was the only audible into a pass in the whole game. You didn't really think we had a chance to come back form 14 in the second half did you? In those playing conditions against the Pukes pass D? I'm not saying we would have won had Spurrier ran it on that first and 10, but we would have had a much better chance. That was a game changing play. In retrospect, we would not win yesterday in the second half. Yesterday - and I'm not going to bother going through the possible causes - Tim played terribly. Playcalling, preparation, weather, whatever- Tim was having a bad day. The Cowboys pass defense was less responsible for that, I think. The Cowboys pass defense has given them problems for the past month, in particular Mario Edwards. But, going into the second half, I felt we would have a chance to win. The opening drive of the second half, it was our ball, and we have come back after looking pathetic in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
codeorama Posted December 15, 2003 Share Posted December 15, 2003 Jbooma, I totally agree with your premise about lacking talent. I'm not sure how anyone could argue that our D line or our saftey's are talented, or our RB's, or TE's, or How our Rookie O linemen are talented, or our 2 "rookie" qb's. Coles, Thomas and co are new to the team. I'm not even sure our talented players are "team" players, at least not all of them. Lets' face it, the media didn't expect very much out of the Skins this year, yet they look to pounce on Spurrier for not making winners out of the guys we have. I'm expecting the playoffs next year, if not, Spurrier will be gone. Simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyGator Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Jbooma, Are we twins separated at birth or are you just another Gator homer? Excellent original post. Many of the talented players on this team have major attitude problems. I have watched the Giants closely as well for several years. You don't get nearly that sense with them. Parcells is my favorite NFL coach. Spurrier is my favorite coach. I think if Spurrier had equal decent talent at all positions on offense, he would do well in the NFL. He had very few superstars on offense at Florida. His best player in 11 years IMO was Fred Taylor in terms of NFL talent (and Fred had off field issues and injuries then too). His offensive lines were better at pass protection than run blocking. His major flaw IMO is his loyalty to assistants. If Snyder persuades him to make good changes in the offseason and get a GM, we'll hit the playoffs in 2004. No doubt! The Giants have struggled with Tiki Barber, Amani Toomer, Ike Hilliard, Kerry Collins and Jeremy Shockey over the last two years. Talent and chemistry on offense like theirs took time to develop. Fassel's original offenses were very predictable. He was liked though by the players (maybe too much) and they went to a Super Bowl after a few years. The Giants have developed talent at every skill position on offense and a good OL coach. We have talent at WR and green talent at QB. Barber and co. didn't win overnight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redblazer00 Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I never wanted to bring Spurrier back but if he is here next year I will still sit thought the mess. It's getting harder and harder to watch the games I get so high on expectations in the off season only to see Spurrier call some of the worst offensive games. Our defense even with the lesser of big name guys has been much better despite there numbers imagine if they didn't have to live on the football field every sunday due to the offensive impatence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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