The Impeachment Thread

[wrilbo67]

43 minutes ago, Larry said:

Folks, 

 

Do y'all have any idea just how stupid y'all look, with constant speculation about Trump ignoring elections, third terms, and similar?  

 

Feels like the place has moved from "Fox News" level of conspiracy theories, into "QAnnon" level.  

 

The things that are actually happening are bad enough.   

 

 

I'm not ready to get down to that level yet, but remember our democracy is set on a certain set of norms regarding transition\distribution of power.  The senate has to confirm the results of an election, with the vice-president presiding.  Does anyone here remember Al Gore, despite all the vitriol of the 2000 election, sitting in the senate chamber and certifying his own defeat?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D00MmTuja8

 

(note that the rebuttals Gore is answering are coming from House of Reps congressmen, who are typically expected to be less diplomatic and more vocal- on both sides- with whatever they believe).

 

Meanwhile, Republicans in West Virginia, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and North Carolina, recently have:

 

• Impeached the Supreme Court in WV: https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2018/10/impeachment-west-virginias-supreme-court/574495/ (they specifically sat on the charges for months and waited till the day when a new court could be appointed by the Republican governor rather than voted upon by the people)
• Stripped an incoming Democratic governor of power in NC: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/north-carolinas-legislature-tried-strip-power-new-governor-will-states
• Stripped an incoming Democratic governor of power in WI: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/03/wisconsin-judge-walker-evers-power-grab.html
• Talked about impeaching PA Supreme Court justices for rejecting a gerrymandered congressional map: https://www.npr.org/2018/03/22/596172829/pennsylvania-chief-justice-criticizes-impeachment-moves

 

All of these things are unprecedented, as is refusing to even hear evidence in an impeachment trial, or refusing to even hold a confirmation hearing for a US Supreme Court nominee, but they all happened in the last *4* years.

 

Where are we left in a hypothetical situation where the US Senate refuses to confirm the results of the electoral college in December/January? Will the supreme court step in? Is it their place to?  How unrealistic is this situation given that I only have to go back to 2016 to cite all these items?

 

[Larry]

 

12 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

 I'd be willing to bet large sums of money that I can accurately forecast his response to losing. Everything he does is utterlly predictable.

 

31 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

You can bet on almost anything in Las Vegas. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Renegade7]

43 minutes ago, Larry said:

Folks, 

 

Do y'all have any idea just how stupid y'all look, with constant speculation about Trump ignoring elections, third terms, and similar?  

 

Feels like the place has moved from "Fox News" level of conspiracy theories, into "QAnnon" level.  

 

The things that are actually happening are bad enough.  

 

 

I dont believe it's stupid to ask these questions now that the senate is helping him find loopholes in the constitution and ignoring when he does break the law.  At this point isnt it obvious the GOP has been directly attacking democracy because it interferes with their ability to stay in power?

 

If you gonna say it's stupid, let's start with what actually enforces the peaceful transition of power.  Then we can talk about if they can or will do it, not they are supposed to so they will continue doing it.  Fine if you want to call it extreme, but the GOP isnt pretending they like democracy anymore because they dont have to.  I'm not sure Trumps base even cares how they get what they want as long as they get it.

 

It's so easy to say it will never happen here, easier then proving it.  All I ask is a plan for if they go this route, because if they dont dems will be caught flat footed running to the courts that hes already stacking in his favor.

[Bang]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Folks, 

 

Do y'all have any idea just how stupid y'all look, with constant speculation about Trump ignoring elections, third terms, and similar?  

 

Feels like the place has moved from "Fox News" level of conspiracy theories, into "QAnnon" level.  

 

The things that are actually happening are bad enough.  

 

Whatever.
if all of th crazy suppositions didn't keep coming out as true, then i'd guess i'd feel like i look stupid.

 

I keep telling you... when a threat is made, you better listen.

And trump has said how many times that a third term is something he thinks should / could / would happen?
at least six by my count. (This is six more times than we have ever heard it mentioned by any American President in my and your lifetime.) He has been laying the foundation into their brains. Their tiny little single track easily manipulated minds. 

 

It's like you've never seen any sort of history of authoritarians and dictators before. As if every warning of history is lost on you. As if the magnitude of the disinformation campaign is not real. 

Do you know how stupid THAT looks?


Hope I'm wrong. 

 

~Bang

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, Bang said:

 

It's like you've never seen any sort of history of authoritarians and dictators before. As if every warning of history is lost on you.
Do you know how stupid THAT looks?

 

~Bang

 

This is what disturbs me probably more then anything else about this whole thing.  Some of this stuff we're seeing is f'n textbook, like someone is telling him how to do it.  I wonder who...

[Larry]

3 minutes ago, Bang said:

t's like you've never seen any sort of history of authoritarians and dictators before. As if every warning of history is lost on you. As if the magnitude of the disinformation campaign is not real. 

 

Yep.  I'm a Hitler denier.  

 

I mean, it couldn't possibly be that I'm a person who 

 

1)  Knows that Hitler was real.  AND

2)  Knows that not everyone is Hitler.  

[Bang]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

 

This is what disturbs me probably more then anything else about this whole thing.  Some of this stuff we're seeing is f'n textbook, like someone is telling him how to do it.  I wonder who...

the same guy who just disbanded his government and removed all pretense as to who is in charge forever. The world's largest criminal and strongman.
The first time i heard Trump mention it was after Xi did it upon his election in China. "This seems like something that would be a good idea here", is what i think he said.

 

~Bang

1 minute ago, Larry said:

 

Yep.  I'm a Hitler denier.  

 

I mean, it couldn't possibly be that I'm a person who 

 

1)  Knows that Hitler was real.  AND

2)  Knows that not everyone is Hitler.  

Well, that was TWA level deflection.

 

Congratulations.

 

~Bang

[Chachie]

1 hour ago, Larry said:

Folks, 

 

Do y'all have any idea just how stupid y'all look, with constant speculation about Trump ignoring elections, third terms, and similar?  

 

Feels like the place has moved from "Fox News" level of conspiracy theories, into "QAnnon" level.  

 

The things that are actually happening are bad enough.  

 

 

 

Who are you and what have you done with our friend Larry? This admin is one giant moving, morphing, manipulating conspiracy. 

[AJ*]

4 minutes ago, Bang said:

Whatever.
if all of th crazy suppositions didn't keep coming true, then i'd guess i'd feel like i look stupid.

 

I keep telling you... when a threat is made, you better listen.

And trump has said how many times that a third term is something he thinks should / could / would happen?
at least six by my count. (This is six more times than we have ever heard it mentioned by any American President in my and your lifetime.) He has been laying the foundation into their brains. Their tiny little single track manipulated minds.

 

It's like you've never seen any sort of history of authoritarians and dictators before. As if every warning of history is lost on you. As if the magnitude of the disinformation campaign is not real. 
Do you know how stupid THAT looks?

 

~Bang

 

Yep, I've been saying this for a while now. Trump conditions the public for whatever he eventually wants. First it seems outlandish but over time it goes from a joke/suggestion to actually trying to make it happen. And by the time Trump wants to make it happen the public has been conditioned to think..."well, it's not really as bad as it sounds" and they go on with their lives. That's how they got through the Mueller report. Trump always jumped ahead of it and he put his narrative out there first so by the time the information was official the public already in their "well, it's not so bad" mode. And when he continues to over-saturate the media with headline after headline he's basically conditioning the public to start ignoring whatever he's doing because by then it's just Trump being Trump.

[Larry]

4 minutes ago, Bang said:

Well, that was TWA level deflection.

 

It was an accurate rebuttal to your attack.  

 

You want high level intellectual discussion, don't accuse your opponent of denying that dictators have ever existed.  

 

[Chachie]

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Yep.  I'm a Hitler denier.  

 

I mean, it couldn't possibly be that I'm a person who 

 

1)  Knows that Hitler was real.  AND

2)  Knows that not everyone is Hitler.  

 

 

You're 100% correct. Donald Trump isn't biologically Adolph Hitler. 🙂

 

[Renegade7]

10 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

It was an accurate rebuttal to your attack.  

 

You want high level intellectual discussion, don't accuse your opponent of denying that dictators have ever existed.  

 

 

Not every dictator was Hitler.  Ironic, how much time was spent going over how technically those are or are not concentration camps on our southern border?

 

I noted what @AJ* brought up when I went to a rally, to a T that's what Trump does, suggesting stuff until he sees he has enough support for it then starts doing it.  We're talking following a pattern here, not making a Hollywood script.

[Larry]

2 minutes ago, Chachie said:

 

 

You're 100% correct. Donald Trump isn't biologically Adolph Hitler. 🙂

 

 

Technically, I said "Not everyone".  

[Chachie]

 

15 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Technically, I said "Not everyone".  

 

 

I know. You seem grumpy so I want you to know I was just being cheeky. However, as long as I was able to inject the concept of "biological Hitlers" into the conversation....

 

 

[Larry]

Just now, Chachie said:

You seem grumpy so I want you to know I was just being cheeky.

 

I could kinda tell.    

 

(That's why I decided a joke response was appropriate.)  

[Bang]

37 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

It was an accurate rebuttal to your attack.  

 

You want high level intellectual discussion, don't accuse your opponent of denying that dictators have ever existed.  

 

No, it wasn't.

And i never accused you of that. Taste your own medicine.

What i just quoted above that you said is a complete fallacy, I never said that. You did, and tried to do your usual sneer down the nose.  i didn't start this discussion by opening the parlay by suggesting folks who keep seeing these signs look stupid. That was you.

 

Did you rebut the FACT that Trump keeps mentioning his third term?
no. You said "hitler" and then some self gratuitous bull****.

Did you rebut the FACT that the next step down the path keeps happening? 
no. You said "hitler" and then some self gratuitous bull****.
Did you rebut the FACT that his mob gives him everything he wants and not only accepts every single twist of logic that is used to explain it, but parrots it time after time after time? That their backing of him just grows in strength every single time? 
no. You said "hitler" and then some self gratuitous bull****.

by the by,, that IS what Hitler did. Since he's the guy everyone models these things after.. may as well see it from that perspective. Realize that Hitler did NOT spend his entire rise to power killing people and starting wars.. His time as chancellor and the war was the END of his reign.  He spent 20 years manipulating everything he could until the ranks of governance were handed to him by a tired old washed up Hindenburg who was trotted out to do the honors because he was the figurehead the peasantry worshiped. he didn't need that. But he did it to cement it in people's minds that HE was the state. Manipulation.
But well before then his thugs had overtaken the Reichstag and they acted just like the GOP does within it's halls. Lockstep, ignoring the rule of law, blocking and shouting down every attempt at sanity.  Back then it wasn't so subtle.. they beat people into voting for them. Now our elections are rigged, and our GOP leadership rejects every single attempt there is to try to safeguard the process. Every time any bill is passed to try to secure our elections, McConnell has blocked it. Every time. And we keep hearing in practically every place that has had an election that the machines become compromised very easily. (Are these lies?)

Back then they sent people into crowds at opposition rallies to start fights and demonize them. Now they do it through massive media attacks, outright lies that once disproven do not matter, because the mob has already accepted it.
These things are happening NOW.

 

Besides, anyone with eyes and even a slight knowledge of history would never compare him to the Hitler of this scenario. That guy sits in Moscow. Trump isn't smart enough or strong enough to do that. He's the Mussolini in this play. The toady who clears the path, who puffs up and is used by the actual strongman behind it all, and will eventually be discarded when his use is up.

ALL i'm saying is the worst we never expected keeps happening. Over and over.
He has said what he intends numerous times. He has planted the seeds. 
All I am doing is listening to what he says, and watching him dismantle and discredit every agency that is designed to protect us from these things.

 

Hope I'm wrong.

 

Don't talk down to me. Because it REALLY makes you look stupid. 

 

~Bang

 

 

[visionary]

I thought everyone would be discussing the new move from the Dept of Injustice.....

[Renegade7]

Comparing Trump to Mussolini instead of Hitler does help bring this conversation closer to where it needs to be.  I get where @Larry is coming from being careful with that comparison even if I dont agree how he articulated it.

 

But the note that a lot of Hilter is remembered for occurred after he got the unquestioned power cannot be understated.  Trump isnt the mastermind he was, but he doesnt need to be.

[visionary]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bearrock]

2 minutes ago, visionary said:

I thought everyone would be discussing the new move from the Dept of Injustice.....

 

Thinking about how sad the current state of the republic is where such abomination barely registers with the people....

[Chachie]

14 minutes ago, Bang said:

ALL i'm saying is the worst we never expected keeps happening. Over and over.
He has said what he intends numerous times. He has planted the seeds. 
All I am doing is listening to what he says, and watching him dismantle and discredit every agency that is designed to protect us from these things.

 

 

~Bang

 

 

 

 

Here he is just last night literally pushing people at his rally to subvert the voting in the NH primary...

 

 

[Renegade7]

2 minutes ago, visionary said:

I thought everyone would be discussing the new move from the Dept of Injustice.....

 

The Roger Stone thing?  Man, good point, and such the MO if this administration that are so busy trying to keep up that stuff that would dominate the news is jus another day that ends with a Y.  I guess that means he isnt being pardon, thatd be worse if Trump started one after the other pardoning his associates.  It's still bad, should be terrible but not because of context of it possibly being worse?

[Bang]

40 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Comparing Trump to Mussolini instead of Hitler does help bring this conversation closer to where it needs to be.  I get where @Larry is coming from being careful with that comparison even if I dont agree how he articulated it.

 

But the note that a lot of Hilter is remembered for occurred after he got the unquestioned power cannot be understated.  Trump isnt the mastermind he was, but he doesnt need to be.

Well, let me be clear, I am not comparing this to Hitler.
Not just because Trump isn't smart enough, but because times are different, end games are different. 
But..  one could argue that cutting Medicaid, destroying social security, eroding public education,  much of the degradation of agencies and plans that are in the interest of public good we have seen cast MANY people in the role of the Jews, not necessarily to be exterminated, but used and used and used for generations as another resource to be plundered until exhausted.

The world's wealth is already distributed to the very few, while we not only fight over the scraps, but think the scraps we get are good. Compared to them, even a 'rich' person is poor, and the poor look down and hate the poorer, and are conditioned to blame them for all the problems being created by those above their heads actually pulling the strings. Hungry people are reviled.

Power, unchecked power and an ignorant population willing to just allow it and take whatever is handed to them seems to me to be the goal for now.

This isn't necessarily fascism we see rising, more like a Criminal empire.. and criminals need victims to exploit.
I liken trump more to the mob boss who poisons everyone's kids with the drugs his thugs deal on the corners, but they love him because he gives them a turkey at Thanksgiving.

This rise isn't under the guise of "lebensraum" colonialism and empire building..  it's more along the lines of "everyone get in line, do what your told, accept what your given, but don't realize you are doing what you're told and getting the crumbs" and for good measure... destroy anyone who points at it and says "hey,, look at THIS!". ("Bread and Circuses" is a concept that LONG predates Hitler, and was used to the same basic effect.)

The power becomes concentrated, and never given back.
And as it certainly appears as if our marauding the planet's resources are beginning now to take the tolls that have been warned, they will survive, while we...well, so what if a couple billion of us die of plagues and natural disasters? So what if our living space is contracted by rising seas? (So what if we all shoot each other?)
there's isn't, and if they continue, we will be too weak and dumbed-down to do anything about it.. content to exist at the whim of the masters.

But, if we here in the US are goaded into civil war, (over say,, a president who refuses to leave when voted out..  or takes a 3rd, 4th, or 5th term), that all plays into Putin's favor anyway. He is at the top of this pyramid. He is the Don, regardless of what our Donald may think. Trump is a pawn. he wants to be a king, and so is the talk of the third term and trying like hell to consolidate his power. But he is a puppet, and his desires to be king are part of his marionette's dance.. his ego is part of the plan woven into the strings above his head.

The world's powers that may ever be strong enough to stop this are being systematically wedged apart, and the people are happily arguing themselves into war within... without even noticing the true danger. Even though it is right out there in the open.

 

~Bang

[mcsluggo]

27 minutes ago, visionary said:

I thought everyone would be discussing the new move from the Dept of Injustice.....

 

which one????   there are so many putrid choices....

 

the choice to formally adopt Rudy G's investigation, and place the seal of approval on it?

 

 

the choice to climb on their knees and drop their pants for trump after he whined about the recommended sentence for one of his flying monkeys?   https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/justice-dept-to-reduce-sentencing-recommendation-for-trump-associate-roger-stone-official-says-after-president-calls-it-unfair/2020/02/11/ad81fd36-4cf0-11ea-bf44-f5043eb3918a_story.html

 

 

there are just toooo many choices

 

[Llevron]

8 minutes ago, mcsluggo said:

the choice to climb on their knees and drop their pants for trump after he whined about the recommended sentence for one of his flying monkeys?   https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/justice-dept-to-reduce-sentencing-recommendation-for-trump-associate-roger-stone-official-says-after-president-calls-it-unfair/2020/02/11/ad81fd36-4cf0-11ea-bf44-f5043eb3918a_story.html

 

Asked conservative work roomie about it and he said he didnt have an opinion on it cause it doesnt matter. Says Stone will do time anyway and that he doesnt really see what he did as wrong. Told him, well he lied in court and to the FBI and he said "Yea everybody does that"