PleaseBlitz Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 10 hours ago, NoCalMike said: If the Supreme Court is going to agree to hear the case, and in affect involve themselves in this process, they should at least agree to fast track all of this immediately as to not have these decision held up, hanging on a case that isn't going to be heard for months. I heard an interesting legal theory. Chief Justice Roberts will preside over the Senate “trial.” He could potentially rule on certain things, like if people like McGahn & Bolton can/must testify, on the spot. Effectively cut through all of the legal process. I’ll see if anyone has written about it. Edit: here we go https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/472179-dems-eye-taking-fight-over-mcgahn-testimony-to-impeachment-trial Quote Legal experts say the fight over whether White House counsel Don McGahn must testify under subpoena before Congress could be settled at the Senate impeachment trial before it finishes its path through the courts. A federal judge on Monday ruled against the Trump administration, deciding that McGahn must comply with a House Judiciary Committee subpoena seeking his testimony. The ruling is being appealed, but Democrats could look to secure testimony from McGahn and other key witnesses directly at the Senate trial, where Chief Justice John Roberts would preside, experts said. There, Roberts would have a key role in deciding questions about admitting evidence before the case even gets to the Supreme Court. “It is more likely than not that the witness testimony sought from key players like McGahn and [former national security adviser] John Bolton will only be secured, if at all, in a Senate trial,” said Brad Moss, a national security lawyer. “Last night’s ruling would certainly provide Chief Justice Roberts with a firmer foundational footing to compel the testimony.” House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff (D-Calif.) opened the door to this scenario during an interview Sunday on CNN. “I think there's certainly merit to the idea that we may get a quicker ruling from a chief justice in a Senate trial, if it ever came to that, than we would get by going months and months on end litigating the matter,” he said. “There's no guarantee of that, but I think that it's entirely possible.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsmarydu Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 I was okay with Roberts because he upheld the ACA. But we don't know what he's gonna do now. Will he rule by the law or just say "**** it, I want in on this 'above the law' **** too!" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Roberts will rule by the law. And it will not matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 48 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said: I heard an interesting legal theory. Chief Justice Roberts will preside over the Senate “trial.” He could potentially rule on certain things, like if people like McGahn & Bolton can/must testify, on the spot. Effectively cut through all of the legal process. I’ll see if anyone has written about it. Edit: here we go https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/472179-dems-eye-taking-fight-over-mcgahn-testimony-to-impeachment-trial Unfortunately, it's pretty much guaranteed than any Senate trial will not so much as mention any witnesses against Trump. (Other than to push conspiracy theories about them.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Just now, Larry said: Unfortunately, it's pretty much guaranteed than any Senate trial will not so much as mention any witnesses against Trump. (Other than to push conspiracy theories about them.) Republicans got to call witnesses in the House. They just ended up being disasters for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted November 28, 2019 Share Posted November 28, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 The President ****posting after watching Fox and Friends will be in the history books/movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 fwiw to the interested rep. zoe lofgren (-ca) is the only member of congress to have worked on all three potus impeachment proceedings, and did significant work in at least two of them...on her gov page (below) there is a link to the pdf file i'm putting in this post in case you'd rather read it there than open the pdf even just scanning it is informative on a couple levels, and just reading some of it thoroughly is worthwhile imo....not counting appendices, there's about 20 pages, the whole thing is not too hard or long a read....i say all this independent of the fact that's it's coming from a dem pov (link yo rep's gov page) https://lofgren.house.gov/ (direct link to pdf on rep's site) https://ia801902.us.archive.org/14/items/constitutional_grounds_for_presidential_impeachment_-_house_judiciary_comm_staff_report_february_1974/constitutional_grounds_for_presidential_impeachment_-_house_judiciary_comm_staff_report_february_1974.pdf pdf below constitutional_grounds_for_presidential_impeachment.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Impeachment is going to end up being a failure. We all know he was never going to be removed because the GOP politicians simply do not care. The only hope was impacting the electorate and unfortunately, it looks like that is going to fail as well. Turns out Americans are some mindless mother****ers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 it seems fairly clear that dem leadership is not looking at judging this process a win or loss by how the final impeachment vote will go, even while they might be allowing for some sort of successful hail mary play by wrap-up along with the idea that most of them believe that this is something that should simply be done as a matter of right v wrong and go through the process however it turns out, their political strategy piece is more around gathering and organizing what they see as a wealth of condemning material and expediting the process so it's done as close to a full year in advance of the election as possible, believing it will all make for very useful additional (all those clips) campaign fodder on top of all the typical focus on "breakfast table" issues as we get closer and closer to having a dem nominee and then move into the post convention phase i think it's a good plan...i lived through two of the previous impeachments and it took a long time for some of the "against" people to come around...these days are diff, and there won't be any kind of big percentage that "eventually comes around", but it might be bigger (if still comparatively small) than many think 6-7 months from now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Goalposts moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Under the current circumstances of my client being guilty and me having no real defense and half the country and an entire political party not caring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 11 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said: Impeachment is going to end up being a failure. We all know he was never going to be removed because the GOP politicians simply do not care. The only hope was impacting the electorate and unfortunately, it looks like that is going to fail as well. Turns out Americans are some mindless mother****ers. Of course they failed. Only the diehard partisans really care. Those against Trump, will use the failure to remove Trump; to motivate themselves. Those for Trump, will the failure as proof that Trump is innocent and the deep state, etc... was engaging in a coup to remove him. The general public really doesn't care and probably would rather they talk about the issues. If Trump needs to be gone, then we can vote him out in 2020; they will say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: The general public really doesn't care and probably would rather they talk about the issues. The general public is a bunch of dip****s then. This IS the issue. The GOP and it’s propaganda machine is the greatest threat facing our country today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 The White House announced today that they will block any evidence, testimony, or presence in the impeachment. And instead directed all personnel to get out there and announce that impeachment is clearly completely partisan (because they aren't participating), and unconstitutional (because the grand jury doesn't have a defense lawyer, which the WH is refusing to allow to attend). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Kennedy is the first one I think is legit crazy. The others im sure know exactly what they are doing. But Kennedy looks like hes got more and a few screws lose in that clip above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, Larry said: The White House announced today that they will block any evidence, testimony, or presence in the impeachment. And instead directed all personnel to get out there and announce that impeachment is clearly completely partisan (because they aren't participating), and unconstitutional (because the grand jury doesn't have a defense lawyer, which the WH is refusing to allow to attend). Come on man, isn't that would any rationally thinking innocent person would do? 3 minutes ago, Llevron said: Kennedy is the first one I think is legit crazy. The others im sure know exactly what they are doing. But Kennedy looks like hes got more and a few screws lose in that clip above The more I hear Kennedy talk, not to mention see him on the TV, the more he reminds of the stereotypical matriarchal grandfather member of the family that everyone dreads having to socialize with during the holidays. The family member that you can get through the dinner with if he juuuuust doesn't bring uo politics, but you know he will. Either that or "Drunk Uncle" from SNL's weekend update (Bobby Moynihan). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PleaseBlitz Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Summed up nicely in the Post. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/12/02/nadler-calls-trumps-bluff/ Quote When the House Intelligence Committee held depositions of key witnesses, President Trump’s lawyers cried: “Unfair! Secret hearings!” In fact, a slew of Republicans had the right to ask questions, though some chose not to attend. When the hearings moved to a public phase, the White House hollered: “Unfair! Trump’s lawyer isn’t present!” When the House Judiciary Committee, chaired by Rep. Jerrold Nadler (D-N.Y.), invited Trump’s lawyers to attend, the response was: “Unfair! We’re not coming!” What is unfair is that Trump and his lawyers have given up any semblance of fidelity to facts, have smeared distinguished witnesses, attempted to intimidate the whistleblower (and put his or her safety in jeopardy), hurled baseless accusations at House Democrats investigating presidential wrongdoing and, worst of all, obstructed Congress by refusing to produce documents and blocking critical witnesses from testifying. On Sunday, Pat A. Cipollone, the White House counsel, sent Nadler a letter declining to show up for the Wednesday hearing but reserving the right to participate later on. The New York Times wrote: “The refusal to send lawyers Wednesday continues a pattern of stonewalling by Mr. Trump, who has sought to block witnesses and documents, as he and his allies call the proceedings ‘deranged’ and a ‘witch hunt.’” There is no mystery as to what is going on here. Trump has no facts to put forth and no valid constitutional argument that bribery (specifically mentioned in the Constitution) and obstruction fail to meet the standard for impeachment. (As the Lawfare blog puts it, “There is every reason to believe that the drafters of the Constitution had in mind a scope that easily encompasses Trump’s conduct. ... The transcript [of the July 25 call] makes clear that Trump tied together the request for a personal favor with the delivery of military aid. But even if he had not made such a direct connection, this sort of corrupt use of public office to obtain a private benefit fits squarely within the definition of bribery when the Constitution was written.”) Instead, Trump (like Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu) plays the same card that every corrupt authoritarian does in these situations: He attacks the investigators as corrupt and unfair. “Republicans battling the potential impeachment of President Trump have flitted among a multitude of shifting — and, at times, contradictory — defenses and deflections as they seek to cast doubt on a narrative supported by mounting evidence: that Trump subverted U.S. foreign policy to further his personal aims by pressuring Ukraine to launch politically motivated investigations, using hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid as leverage,” The Post reported last month. “While those attacks — at least 22, according to a Washington Post tally — have done little to undermine the core allegations under investigation in the House, they have been remarkably successful in one respect: keeping congressional Republicans united against impeachment as the GOP casts the probe as partisan.” Republicans remain united not because truth, the Constitution or fairness are on Trump’s side. They are on his side because they have chosen to put blind tribalism above their constitutional obligations. Republicans think they have a captive base insulated by Fox News (the equivalent of Pravda) and by the allegedly more sophisticated conservative pundits who cannot stand up to the mob, for fear of losing readership, speaking fees, access and political relevance in the Trump era. Whatever procedural requests Democrats grant will be dismissed as insufficient. There is no process that will meet Trump’s definition of “fairness,” because any limitation on his conduct and any criticism are by definition unfair in his narcissistic, self-deluded view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCB Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Strong piece from Bob Bauer today, too. We all know that Republicans aren't actually interested in the Founders or any actual political principles, but it's still worth pointing out their historical ignorance as often as possible. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/02/opinion/trump-impeachment.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooked Crack Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 It's almost pornographic the way they slurp Trump up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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