No Excuses

The Impeachment Thread

Impeachment  

190 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Donald Trump be impeached for obstruction of justice?



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12 hours ago, clietas said:

 

Rich people can be as cheap as anyone. 

My head chef told me that he read somewhere that trump won't throw away socks with holes in them. 

Now, people like me who find a way to re-purpose things will do something reasonable like use them for dustrags, to wash cars, etc. I can't imagine what people who don't dust do, just keep wearing them? 

Quick...somebody make a meme! 

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2 minutes ago, skinsmarydu said:

My head chef told me that he read somewhere that trump won't throw away socks with holes in them. 

Now, people like me who find a way to re-purpose things will do something reasonable like use them for dustrags, to wash cars, etc. I can't imagine what people who don't dust do, just keep wearing them? 

Quick...somebody make a meme! 

 

Sock puppet sex games?

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52 minutes ago, DoneMessedUp said:

 

 

 

"Oh, and buy my new upcoming book, guys!" as he hides behind the courts.

 

Coward. 

 

 

Add: Apparently Trump has officially trotted out the "Don't really know him" defense again for Sondland. It's more of a meme now than a defense, really.

 

In a Fox News interview he said “This guy, Sondland, hardly know him,” Trump said.

Edited by mistertim
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 a couple things

 

of course i get, and know the arguments pro and con, the political strategizing debate on how it might impact the election before the dems even started an inquiry and if it would be worth it even if they thought the actual events merited it constitutionally and ethically....imo, if you think impeachable activity is occurring, you're duty bound to proceed no matter if it cost you political capital even in more tumultuous and serious times where much is thought to be at stake

 

i think this is a proper case and the degree to which i loathe trumpworld---and at this point by rightful extension the gop as a whole---is very high so yeah, i hate the idea that doing what i see as the right thing, the necessary thing in this case, may cost the election in 2020....i actually don't think it will in the end, but that's when you're supposed to be the most steadfast in a principled stance if you think it's right---to do so even when it costs you dearly

 

also, "win or lose", imo this stuff that came out was very much worth getting into a historical record no matter what happens in the election....again, i'd say necessary for the future of the best version of a democracy we can get to...so to me, def worth it

 

 

now, per the events---no doubt in my mind trumpco did all they could to collude with rooskies in 2015-16 and the data shows it---i've read and studied the mueller report, and by itself there was enough there on two fronts to make a powerful case for impeachment, but also these current events by themselves are quite sufficient too imv....and the fact that this newest attempt for shady foreign assistance in trump's getting reelected is a "repeat" offense is a big deal and shows how it would be an ongoing pattern (duh) with this ****wad (don)

 

so i fully support the dems, their clowns and missteps in the process notwithstanding, in deciding to have done the inquiry, and would support the continuance of the process, based on the testimony and data i've seen to date, onto the senate no matter what kind of circus/outcome the gop may be able to dictate

 

 

moving on now to the gop and its defense of trump-----think about it....think about the guy, his cabinet of malevolent crooks, and many of the policies the gopers are defending to the point where they abandon any pretense of fidelity to fairness, justice, reason, truth, logic,  or even actual reality

 

defending this guy who everyone knew was an ignorant cowardly narcissist bully, a serial lying misogynist, a bigot/racist, a dumbass conspiracy nut, a crook, a philanderer, a suckass parent, and just a 100 % ****fest of a human being....and who now, as potus, puts kids in cages and installs a scum-sack like steve miller in power over human beings, and, well, just think of ALL the mindless abysmally awful ****ty things this guy has done.....and the gopers have, and are not just defending him, they are all-in on perpetuating  this historical level of diseased crap

 

i get their sick (to me)  mindset that getting biased judges in place, the traditional gop tax breaks for the wealthy done, and all the regs suspended that boosted certain industrial $$$$ at other costs is "worth it", and i also get that a big part of the fervent support is all about advancing the world of xtian whiteyland  as they're ultimate long-game priority (second only to padding their pockets with dollars or power that leads to more $$$ no matter how low you have to go to get there)

 

 

this is what the republican party is fighting so hard to hang onto

 

 

they should be utterly annihilated as an institution, though that's obviously highly unlikely...the very most i could hope for (and even it's a pipe dream) is that their influence, via all elections everywhere from now through  2020 forward, is dramatically crippled for a decade or so at minimum

 

 

assuming they don't get the voting machines rigged before they're ousted

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Considering how the GOP has basically abandoned any pretense of reality or defending anything based on its merits, as well as how they're increasingly indicating openly (or indirectly, via refusing to allow votes on vote security legislation in the Senate...thanks Moscow Mitch) that they're fine with our process being interfered with as long as it's in favor of "Their Guy", I wouldn't be especially surprised at straight up vote machine rigging now.

 

I mean...what else is there, really? If they can defend Their Guy welcoming Russian interference in our elections (with him recently saying he'd still probably accept it AGAIN in 2020) by simply denying it happened in direct contradiction of all available evidence, what's to stop them from simply allowing people to rig the machines and then saying "It didn't happen" again? Their followers will believe anything they say. 

Edited by mistertim
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if you want to see a nicely done easy-to-follow summation of the traitorous ass-klown chicanery of the republicans evolution of "defenses" for trump, try to find a video of jon avalon's "Reality Check" segment from this morning...i think it was on the cnn show new day first...well done piece

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Wouldn't mind seeing an evolution of their excuses for Trump firing the head of the FBI because he failed to promise to obstruct justice.  

 

I think the one they settled on was "Trump fired him because he was too mean to Hillary"?  

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I love how impeachment is portrayed as an unfair process when the President is aligned with 53% of his jurors and can have them over for lunch to lobby them to vote as a unit.

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The best/worst part about this whole Biden thing is that Trump didn't even care/want an actual investigation, he just wanted Zelensky to go on CNN and "announce an investigation" to me this is something along the lines of James Comey announcing a week (approx?) before the election that the FBI was re-opening the Hillary emails thing.  Nothing came of it, nothing criminal was found, it was nothing to be concerned with, but that didn't matter for the sake of the election.  Hillary's reputation took a hit regardless.

 

Trump knows very likely first hand how to use the media to his advantage and the power of just throwing things out there for the sake of muddying the waters.  He has been doing it for a long time.  The Bidens doing or not doing something wrong is 100% irrelevant to Trump's goal. He just wants the idea that maybe, perhaps, possibly there was something there because he knows right off the bat half the country will automatically assume the worst, and then the disinformation campaign following the announcement would go after the middle. 

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2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

The best/worst part about this whole Biden thing is that Trump didn't even care/want an actual investigation, he just wanted Zelensky to go on CNN and "announce an investigation" to me this is something along the lines of James Comey announcing a week (approx?) before the election that the FBI was re-opening the Hillary emails thing.  Nothing came of it, nothing criminal was found, it was nothing to be concerned with, but that didn't matter for the sake of the election.  Hillary's reputation took a hit regardless.

 

Trump knows very likely first hand how to use the media to his advantage and the power of just throwing things out there for the sake of muddying the waters.  He has been doing it for a long time.  The Bidens doing or not doing something wrong is 100% irrelevant to Trump's goal. He just wants the idea that maybe, perhaps, possibly there was something there because he knows right off the bat half the country will automatically assume the worst, and then the disinformation campaign following the announcement would go after the middle. 

 

Our media hasnt learned a thing from it either. Or, they have and they just dont care. Whichever. 

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15 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Our media hasnt learned a thing from it either. Or, they have and they just dont care. Whichever. 

 

2020 Election is going to be a ratings hit for all.  Nothing much else matters to corporate media.

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If they do rig it, what are we as citizen's gonna do about it? Probably nothing, until it gets even worse than now. And that's when the violence escalates, because what else can we do when there are no longer any peaceful options available or reliable mechanisms for democracy?

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2 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

2020 Election is going to be a ratings hit for all.  Nothing much else matters to corporate media.

 

Which is sad cause there is nothing we can really do to stop it. Cant legislate the problem away. Cant make people care. You would have to change society completely and even then the people at the top would do whatever they can to hold onto power and influence. 

 

Thats a human problem though I think, not a American one. I dont know how you fix it without destroying the whole thing (Hello Burnie) but you will never get people to actually want to destroy their entire society. Atleast not enough for it to happen non-violently. 

Just now, Fresh8686 said:

If they do rig it, what are we as citizen's gonna do about it? Probably nothing, until it gets even worse than now. 

 

We would have to be China before enough people rise up and do something about it. Cause once they start rigging elections outright there is nothing you can do democratically to solve the problem. 

 

I mean we are already there. They control media. tell people what to think. rig the vote in secret and then tell you the other side is cheating. We are already there we just dont know it yet. Trump has to be stopped or else it never will. And even then.......

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The problem right now is that even if they did rig it, half the country would either:

 

- Refuse to believe it

- Be fine with it because it was "their guy" that benefit from it 

- Ok, so he did it, but we should just get over it and let voters in 2024 decide

 

For the kind of protesting we are talking about, you need I'd say at least 70% of the country or at least 70% of actual voters to be in the streets and marching daily.  Getting that many people to agree on anything and take action is a tough thing. 

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i'm not as pessimistic on the outcome of rigging the vote as you guys are

 

mainly because trump and company are so amazingly stupid they'd probably rig it so he got 100% of the votes and it wouldn't really be a debate as to what happened. 

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5 minutes ago, tshile said:

i'm not as pessimistic on the outcome of rigging the vote as you guys are

 

mainly because trump and company are so amazingly stupid they'd probably rig it so he got 100% of the votes and it wouldn't really be a debate as to what happened. 

 

And we all know how well it works out when there's really no debate about what happened  

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11 minutes ago, tshile said:

i'm not as pessimistic on the outcome of rigging the vote as you guys are

 

mainly because trump and company are so amazingly stupid they'd probably rig it so he got 100% of the votes and it wouldn't really be a debate as to what happened. 

 

I mean, does any rational thinking person think there is a debate what happened after watching the impeachment hearings?

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Also, just to add to the general commentary of possible outcomes... the thing that gets me... is that the GOP leadership is being so incredibly dumb.

 

Putting aside issues of ethics, duty, patriotism, maturity, etc that you would normally want assigned to the leadership of 1 of the 2 major political parties... and just thinking strategically... it would be, in my opinion, an immense benefit for the GOP to let the impeach wrap up quickly. Send it to the Senate and have a speedy trial, and oust Trump. Let Pence take over, and be the head of the 2020 ticket. They could fill the VP role temporarily, and pick someone that sparks the base for the ticket.

 

My understanding is that the GOP faithful actually like Pence, other than he's got no charisma nor does he really shine in the spotlight, but he'd have 4 years of VP experience and a well known name at this point.

 

Getting this over with quickly would allow them to escape before Pence is implicated (although they dropped his name in testimony the other day...) and it would give them the all of 2020 to revamp their ticket.

 

Their current route at best has them fighting a huge uphill battle with Trump for 2020. At best. If you believe the polling then "up hill battle" is putting it mildly, and the realistic result is a bloodbath for the GOP all the way down to state-wide elections.

 

Cutting bait from Trump would give them immense upside.

 

The the GOP is doing from a purely strategic standpoint seems laughably stupid... They're spending an immense amount of political capital to protect a guy that's not even competent at pushing their agenda, and is likely to cost them across the board.

4 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

I mean, does any rational thinking person think there is a debate what happened after watching the impeachment hearings?

Does it matter when we know somewhere around 80% of the population is some horrific combination of irrational, uneducated, incredibly partisan?

 

You have to smack them in the face with the truth like a dog with a rolled up news paper that just **** on your floor. Anything less is likely to be ineffective.

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5 minutes ago, tshile said:

Also, just to add to the general commentary of possible outcomes... the thing that gets me... is that the GOP leadership is being so incredibly dumb.

 

Putting aside issues of ethics, duty, patriotism, maturity, etc that you would normally want assigned to the leadership of 1 of the 2 major political parties... and just thinking strategically... it would be, in my opinion, an immense benefit for the GOP to let the impeach wrap up quickly. Send it to the Senate and have a speedy trial, and oust Trump. Let Pence take over, and be the head of the 2020 ticket. They could fill the VP role temporarily, and pick someone that sparks the base for the ticket.

 

My understanding is that the GOP faithful actually like Pence, other than he's got no charisma nor does he really shine in the spotlight, but he'd have 4 years of VP experience and a well known name at this point.

 

Getting this over with quickly would allow them to escape before Pence is implicated (although they dropped his name in testimony the other day...) and it would give them the all of 2020 to revamp their ticket.

 

Their current route at best has them fighting a huge uphill battle with Trump for 2020. At best. If you believe the polling then "up hill battle" is putting it mildly, and the realistic result is a bloodbath for the GOP all the way down to state-wide elections.

 

Cutting bait from Trump would give them immense upside.

 

The the GOP is doing from a purely strategic standpoint seems laughably stupid... They're spending an immense amount of political capital to protect a guy that's not even competent at pushing their agenda, and is likely to cost them across the board.

 

Yeah, it's been surprising to me for years, the lengths the GOP are willing to go, to avoid just replacing Trump with Pence.  

 

I mean, I could see them going this low, if it was a question of Trump, or President Pelosi.  But to avoid Pence?  

 

Abd OK, maybe it's too late to put Pence in there and have him win 2020.  (Probably would have been better to ditch Trump one year in, and let Pence run as the incumbent who's been in office 3 years.)  But even if they lose the WH, I would think that having Pence at the top of the ticket helps them more, down ticket, than Trump does.  

 

And that's even before you factor in the fact that they wouldn't have spent the last three years openly obstructing justice, themselves.  

 

. . . . 

 

But, we're operating in a world where the voters know what Trump, and the entire GOP, have been doing for three years.  

 

I'm pretty sure that the Republicans on the hill are completely confident that they can make all this go away within 2 years or so.  

 

They did it with W.  

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They also all know Trump aint going down without taking every last person he can with him. And he has enough support with their base to do it. I guarantee he has enough on some of these folks to implicate them in crimes as well. 

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Just now, Llevron said:

They also all know Trump aint going down without taking every last person he can with him. And he has enough support with their base to do it. I guarantee he has enough on some of these folks to implicate them in crimes as well. 

 

That's how the mob works. You have the receipts on your allies so they don't flip on you without hurting themselves.

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