2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[kingdaddy]

18 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Cincy is taking Burrow. Lets take a step out of crazy land please.

I remember hearing an NFL GM that when you get the chance to pick that high you take the QB because of their career longevity, assuming of course that the guy is worthy of being the #1 pick. The thought being that QB's can play 15 years while most other positions avg about 1/2 of that. Guess we'll see what Cincy does. 

[PartyPosse]

2 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

I remember hearing an NFL GM that when you get the chance to pick that high you take the QB because of their career longevity, assuming of course that the guy is worthy of being the #1 pick. The thought being that QB's can play 15 years while most other positions avg about 1/2 of that. Guess we'll see what Cincy does. 

Here are the #1 overall QBs in the last 15 years. How many of them won a superbowl? How many of them were the best QB of their draft class?

 

Kyler Murray

Baker Mayfield

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton 

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

JaMarcus Russell

Alex Smith

[Skinsinparadise]

Judging by most national buzz, it’s borderline slam dunk that Cincy is taking Burrow. I am not worried. But heck even on the off chance they took Young, that’s fine too because we likely get a ransom for the pick. Hopefully, we end up with the 2nd pick, it will make a fun off season if so.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Judging by most national buzz, it’s borderline slam dunk that Cincy is taking Burrow. I am not worried. But heck even on the off chance they took Young, that’s fine too because we likely get a ransom for the pick. Hopefully, we end up with the 2nd pick, it will make a fun off season if so.

I just want Philly to win big next week because I want the second pick but the opportunity to knock Dallas out of the playoffs is so tempting. If Philly wins then it doesn't matter what we do.

[clskinsfan]

30 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

No they don't. They have the 33rd pick, the 65th, the 97th and something in the 120s. 

 

Unless they're giving up from future years that is not enough to move up into the mid-first and the team has waaaay too many holes to fill to take a risk on a non bluechip QB prospect.

 

I also expect Herbert to go top ten and both Fromm and Eason to return to school. 

 

And I dont think either of them go back to school. Going back isnt going to really improve their draft position next year as neither will be the number one QB next year either. And I like them both A LOT. I think all 5 of those guys end up starters in the league.

[Skin'emAlive]

12 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Here are the #1 overall QBs in the last 15 years. How many of them won a superbowl? How many of them were the best QB of their draft class?

 

Kyler Murray

Baker Mayfield

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton 

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

JaMarcus Russell

Alex Smith

2 of those guys made it to the Super Bowl, one a former mvp, one a possible mvp before retiring, one is about to hit the 5k passing mark, and those stats are bogus anyways because Tom Brady exists. 
 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I just want Philly to win big next week because I want the second pick but the opportunity to knock Dallas out of the playoffs is so tempting. If Philly wins then it doesn't matter what we do.

 

Wouldn't the Lions then get the pick unless they beat the Packers?

[mhd24]

Ideally, we want NYG to win.  For one, it makes them have a lower pick potentially.  For two, if Dallas is scoreboard watching, then they'll play to win even more.

[PartyPosse]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Wouldn't the Lions then get the pick unless they beat the Packers?

No because they have a tie. They would end up 3-12-1

1 minute ago, mhd24 said:

Ideally, we want NYG to win.  For one, it makes them have a lower pick potentially.  For two, if Dallas is scoreboard watching, then they'll play to win even more.

That's actually a good point. It would make Dan SOOOOO mad to see us lose by 40 to Dallas for the division win.

[xxprodigyxx]

24 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Here are the #1 overall QBs in the last 15 years. How many of them won a superbowl? How many of them were the best QB of their draft class?

 

Kyler Murray

Baker Mayfield

Jared Goff

Jameis Winston

Andrew Luck

Cam Newton 

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

JaMarcus Russell

Alex Smith

well, to be fair, at least 2 of them got their team to the superbowl and, i think two more took their teams to their conference championship.

 

edit: ooops, didn't see the response that basically said the same thing.

[PartyPosse]

10 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

2 of those guys made it to the Super Bowl, one a former mvp, one a possible mvp before retiring, one is about to hit the 5k passing mark, and those stats are bogus anyways because Tom Brady exists. 
 

Point being out of 10 first overalls that's all you've got. Mostly disappointments. 

 

Both of those who made the superbowl? They guys picked right behind him won one. Even Bradford, 5 of the following 6 players picked were all-pros. Only Stafford seems to be the only bonafide legitimate win. Andrew Luck some may say, but let's look at that 2012 draft. Russell Wilson. Nuff said.

2 minutes ago, xxprodigyxx said:

well, to be fair, at least 2 of them got their team to the superbowl and, i think two more took their teams to their conference championship.

 

edit: ooops, didn't see the response that basically said the same thing.

Check out my response to that defense.

[xxprodigyxx]

5 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Point being out of 10 first overalls that's all you've got. Mostly disappointments. 

 

Both of those who made the superbowl? They guys picked right behind him won one. Even Bradford, 5 of the following 6 players picked were all-pros. Only Stafford seems to be the only bonafide legitimate win. Andrew Luck some may say, but let's look at that 2012 draft. Russell Wilson. Nuff said.

Check out my response to that defense.

my only additional comment would be that listing kyler murray and baker mayfield as part of your evidence is a bit unfair. Teams picking at the #1 spot are dumpster fires and one to two years is not a long enough of a timeline to fairly judge them...even if it is the cards and the browns.  Other than that, I'd say there is only one clear cut bust. I'd also say the phenomenon of the #1 pick being a disappointment is not only limited to QBs, though not as common.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

So is Chase Young the real deal, be all end all DE/OLB? Slam Dunk or still doubts? Serious question I don’t know enough outside of the stats.

[Skin'emAlive]

2 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Point being out of 10 first overalls that's all you've got. Mostly disappointments. 

 

Both of those who made the superbowl? They guys picked right behind him won one. Even Bradford, 5 of the following 6 players picked were all-pros. Only Stafford seems to be the only bonafide legitimate win. Andrew Luck some may say, but let's look at that 2012 draft. Russell Wilson. Nuff said.

Check out my response to that defense.

Rating a qb on superbowls or Super Bowl appearances is not a good standard. Only 2 guys make it there per year. Tom Brady has been to 9 of them himself. The difference between a Patrick Ramsey and a Matt Stafford is huge. When you pick a qb no.1 overall, you are getting a guy that can come in and run the show from the beginning. He’s the most important guy in the field, and having a number 1 pick assured you of the ability to get the right one. 
 

Russ is my favorite qb in the game. But that team was built around the Legion. 
 

1. Kyler Murray : bonified starter 

2. Baker Mayfield : starter

3. Jared Goff : took the Rams to the SB

4. Winston : 5k passing is no joke. 
5. Andrew Luck : possible mvp

6. Cam Newton : mvp and Super Bowl 

7. Sam Bradford : 100 injuries $500 mil

8. Matt Stafford : solid starter but injuries...

9. Jamarcus Russel : bust

10. Alex Smith : took the 49ers to the SB

 

only Jamarcus Was a bust. 
 

 

[xxprodigyxx]

6 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Rating a qb on superbowls or Super Bowl appearances is not a good standard. Only 2 guys make it there per year. Tom Brady has been to 9 of them himself. The difference between a Patrick Ramsey and a Matt Stafford is huge. When you pick a qb no.1 overall, you are getting a guy that can come in and run the show from the beginning. He’s the most important guy in the field, and having a number 1 pick assured you of the ability to get the right one. 
 

Russ is my favorite qb in the game. But that team was built around the Legion. 
 

1. Kyler Murray : bonified starter 

2. Baker Mayfield : starter

3. Jared Goff : took the Rams to the SB

4. Winston : 5k passing is no joke. 
5. Andrew Luck : possible mvp

6. Cam Newton : mvp and Super Bowl 

7. Sam Bradford : 100 injuries $500 mil

8. Matt Stafford : solid starter but injuries...

9. Jamarcus Russel : bust

10. Alex Smith : took the 49ers to the SB

 

only Jamarcus Was a bust. 
 

 

you are making me look like a puppet account

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Rating a qb on superbowls or Super Bowl appearances is not a good standard

At the end of the day that’s the only standard that matters. People would take Eli Manning and his subpar career statistically than they would Dan Marino. 5K yards means squat nowadays. At the end of the day the goal is to win it all. If you’re a bad team drafting first overall, not only do you kit have the players but chances are you don’t necessarily have the right system in place. 

[skinny21]

42 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

At the end of the day that’s the only standard that matters. People would take Eli Manning and his subpar career statistically than they would Dan Marino. 5K yards means squat nowadays. At the end of the day the goal is to win it all. If you’re a bad team drafting first overall, not only do you kit have the players but chances are you don’t necessarily have the right system in place. 

I actually think you have a point, but I find it quite ironic you reference Eli Manning considering he was the number one qb taken that year...

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

5 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Crushing it? I wouldn't say that. We've drafted some decent to good players but we have zero difference makers(well McLaurin might be). When was the last time Allen or Payne had a 3 sack game or multiple forced fumbles? Guice has talent but can't stay healthy. The list goes on.

 

Yeah if some team offers something ridiculous like 3 1st rounders you take it, but that's not happening. Keep it simple, take Chase Young, build your defense around him, and crush opposing QBs for the next decade.

 

No difference makers, but we've been getting a bunch of 'B' level players.  I've always liked the thought that if you have 22 B level players on your team, you're winning the Super Bowl every year with competent coaching.

 

I'd say 2017 netted us 2 'B's in Jon Allen and Chase Roullier.  And if we're optimistic, 3 'C's in Moreau, Sprinkle, and Nicholson.  Although of those 3, it's looking like Moreau is the only one that can move up to a 'B'.

2018 netted us 1 'A' in Guice (but injuries make it not count), 1 'B' in Payne, and 3 'C's in Settle, Shaun Dion-Hamilton, and Geron Christian.  Of those last 3, I'd say Settle and Christian have a chance to move up to 'B'.

2019 netted us...well it's too early to say, but the only guy who looks to clearly be in a tier is McLaurin as an 'A'.  We do have 7 'C's that I'm counting though (who could move up to 'B' or fall off to 'D' and be benched).

 

Chase Young profiles as an 'A'.  If we can get lucky and land some more 'C's or a 'B' in 2020 draft, then we're rolling.  This is a big IF, but assuming rare health and Haskins continued progression, the team could be extremely good.

 

22 starters.  2 A's, 3 B's, and 13 C's from last 3 drafts.  If Haskins becomes a B and Chase Young is the A everyone thinks.  That's a team loaded with talent on rookie contracts.  When the Eagles won the Super Bowl, there defense had (imo) 2 A's, 3 B's, and that's it for above average to great talent.  They had that and a whole lot of DL and Edge depth used well, and C level players that were schemed to their strengths used in limited rotations that let them outplay their talent level.

 

Let's say Young is an A.  Dunbar played like an A.  Collins, Allen, Payne, and Ioannidis are B's.  That leaves Reuben Foster, Cole Holcomb, SDH, Sweat, Moreau, Moreland, and Nicholson as C guys.  With quality coaching, that's a good defense.

[CowboyKillerz]

Pretty solid math... Although this team is frequently MUCH better on paper then in real life! I think Young is an impact player for sure- but a GOOD to GREAT DC is likely more impactful- especially if we add Chase on top of that. The DCs in DC have been criminally bad as of late

[PartyPosse]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I actually think you have a point, but I find it quite ironic you reference Eli Manning considering he was the number one qb taken that year...

 

 

Yeah but he was traded so he’s disqualified lol.

[UKskins]

Add a good DC, Chase Young and Reuben Foster to the underperforming but undoubtedly talented Defense and we could really get rolling.

[Skinsinparadise]

It would be nice

 

 

 

[dballer]

9 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

So is Chase Young the real deal, be all end all DE/OLB? Slam Dunk or still doubts? Serious question I don’t know enough outside of the stats.

 

[Koolblue13]

21 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

This one is easy. Lose to Dallas, and select Chase Young. Sometimes, you really dont need to over think it. Yesterday they were calling Ryan Anderson our best pass rusher. I almost laughed when they said it, but then I couldnt confirm or deny he was wrong. Clearly Sweat is a faster/longer version of Kerrigan. Seems his best and possibly only as of right now pass rush move is the bull rush. And just like Kerrigan, he would be much better utilized with a hand in the dirt in a 4-3 defense rather than an outside contain lb in a 3-4.

 

I really like the progression ive seen out of the offense and Haskins. Perhaps sticking with KO at offensive playcaller is not a bad idea after all. Bring in a defensive headcoach who has the fire and the creativeness to succeed in this league. IMO the choice is simple:

 

1. FIRE Manusky/Allen!

2. Promote Kyle Allen to GM

3. Move Alex Smith from active roster to FO

4. Retain KO as offensive coordinator

5. Hire Rex Ryan as head coach / retain Rob Ryan as defensive coach

6. Switch from base 3-4 to base 4-3 defense.

7. Move Kerrigan to Baltimore for a 3rd if possible.

8. After Allen is fired, test the waters on a Trent Williams extension. IF that fails, trade for OJ Howard and a 3rd, or something equivalent.

9. Sign the best FA TE on the market.( Hunter Henry)

10. Resign Sherf at 13-14m per

11. Cut Norman and Reed

12. Resign/Extend Tress Way, Nate Orchard, Steve Sims, Case Keenum, Quinton Dunbar

13. Sign FA db to pair with Dunbar

 

If Callahan is ok going back to OL, then thats fine. Otherwise, he can go.

 

Nicholson | Collins

Dunbar | ?

Anderson | Foster/Holcomb | Sweat

Young | Allen | Payne | Ion

I love almost everything you said. I'd dump Nicholson and I just cant understand how hes on the roster. 

 

I dont want the Ryan's, but that's not the worst idea. Smith I'd think QB coach/assistant OC. 

 

Otherwise, Howard, Hunter, etc, I'm with you 100%.

[KDawg]

Part of our issue here is we don’t know who will be doing the drafting. I assume that, even with a new GM (if it happens), the current scouting staff will be in charge of the draft with the GM making changes to the board to fit his ideas and then make changes post draft. But even that could become an issue.