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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


zCommander

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People keep using Sean Taylor as a comp for Simmons and I don't think it’s a good one. Simmons may be a little taller/longer/faster. Sean was 6’3” and 230 but also has those super long arms. He put up a 4.51 which is solid for a player that size, but not crazy. Beyond that, I don’t think they are similar prospects. Sean may have been the Chase Young of his draft class.  
 

Simmons has 4 career collegiate interceptions. Sean Taylor had 10 in his last year of college. TEN. Show me a video of Simmons hitting a WR so ferociously that he windmills in the air. I’ll wait to see Simmons single cover a Randy Moss caliber receiver down the field and later have that receiver call Simmons the best competition he ever played against. Sean Taylor was a pure FS with preternatural instincts for the position and a super explosive hitter with the in game temperament of a Lawrence Taylor.  
 

Simmons is a great prospect, but if I’d compare him to a previous player, it might be Derrick Brooks on steroids. Or Brian Urlacher. Plug Simmons in at OLB in a 4-3 and he might have a HOF career in the mold of those guys. But he’s not going to hit and cover and intercept like Sean Taylor and he’s just not the same caliber prospect. 
 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1742045

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It's amazing. I'm looking back at the draft class of 2004 and it's insane how many HOF or near HOF were drafted. Manning, Fitzgerald, Rivers, Taylor, DeAngelo Hall, Big Ben, Vilma, Wilfork, Steven Jackson. Outside of Robert Gallery and Reggie Williams and MAYBE Udeze, the rest of the top 20 were solid picks.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

It's amazing. I'm looking back at the draft class of 2004 and it's insane how many HOF or near HOF were drafted. Manning, Fitzgerald, Rivers, Taylor, DeAngelo Hall, Big Ben, Vilma, Wilfork, Steven Jackson. Outside of Robert Gallery and Reggie Williams and MAYBE Udeze, the rest of the top 20 were solid picks.

 

Yeah, 2004, 2007, and 2011 were all ridiculous.

 

2007:

Calvin Johnson

Joe Thomas

Adrian Peterson

Patrick Willis

Marshawn Lynch

Darrelle Revis

Marshal Yanda

Lawrence Timmons

Michael Griffin

Joe Staley

Ryan Kalil

Eric Weddle

 

2011:

Cam Newton

Von Miller

JJ Watt

Patrick Peterson

Julio Jones

Tyron Smith

Richard Sherman

A.J. Green

Jason Kelce

Ryan Kerrigan

Cameron Jordan

Aldon Smith

Robert Quinn

Mark Ingram

Mike Pouncey

Marcel Dareus

Cameron Heyward

Justin Houston

DeMarco Murray

Jurrell Casey

Chris Harris Jr (UDFA)

Doug Baldwin (UDFA)

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25 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Based on the way the 49ers DL is playing right now, Young really does look like a perfect complement to what we have.....

 

I think its funny how some on twitter are saying Saleh is outfoxing Stefanski.  Their point is they are both vying for the Browns HC spot so this shows the superiority of one over another. 

 

The thing is if you got FOUR D lineman who can create havoc, good luck stopping that.  It's hard for a D coordinator to screw that up.

 

So yeah that's part of my months long man crush on Chase Young.  Chase Young on the left, Sweat on the right or vice versa.  Ionnaidis, Allen, Payne up the middle.  Maybe Kerrigan stays and subs and plays inside on some passing downs.  That's a sick D line.

 

I don't think its a coincidence that Sherman is having a late career resurgence and is PFF's top rated corner.  A killer pass rush makes everyone better. 

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3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

People keep using Sean Taylor as a comp for Simmons and I don't think it’s a good one. Simmons may be a little taller/longer/faster. Sean was 6’3” and 230 but also has those super long arms. He put up a 4.51 which is solid for a player that size, but not crazy. Beyond that, I don’t think they are similar prospects. Sean may have been the Chase Young of his draft class.  
 

Simmons has 4 career collegiate interceptions. Sean Taylor had 10 in his last year of college. TEN. Show me a video of Simmons hitting a WR so ferociously that he windmills in the air. I’ll wait to see Simmons single cover a Randy Moss caliber receiver down the field and later have that receiver call Simmons the best competition he ever played against. Sean Taylor was a pure FS with preternatural instincts for the position and a super explosive hitter with the in game temperament of a Lawrence Taylor.  
 

Simmons is a great prospect, but if I’d compare him to a previous player, it might be Derrick Brooks on steroids. Or Brian Urlacher. Plug Simmons in at OLB in a 4-3 and he might have a HOF career in the mold of those guys. But he’s not going to hit and cover and intercept like Sean Taylor and he’s just not the same caliber prospect. 
 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=1742045

Pretty sure it was just me one time making the observation, not a comparison. Simmons is the same weight and a half inch taller, but faster at pretty much everything. Hes played mostly LB, so comparing interceptions doesn't make sense. I know Taylor is always a sore topic around here.

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41 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wouldn’t trade him, I’m just curious. What do you think you could get for Terry McLaurin if you traded him for a pick in this year’s draft?

Don’t know what we could get, but it wouldn’t be enough.  Even if you got a top 6 pick (to ensure you could replace him with Jeudy or Lamb) you’d want to add another high pick - one that gives you a chance at a starter (1st-3rd rounder), and you still wouldn’t know if it’s a good deal...


Of course, I thought Fuller was one of the few guys I wouldn’t consider trading - young, on his rookie contract, coming off an excellent year - and we pulled the trigger.  So who knows.  
 

By the by, have I mentioned how happy I am that Bruce Allen is gone?

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7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

By the by, have I mentioned how happy I am that Bruce Allen is gone?

 

One day in the future, as demo crews are prepping some part of Ashburn for an addition, some worker is going to knock through a wall and discover a stash of Coors Light left behind by Bruce. Think of "one froggy evening," only this will be "once in Brucetime."

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6 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 I think the comparison is almost purely in terms of build/athleticism - the freaky combo of size, speed and to some extent versatility.  

 

Simmons is a lot bigger than Taylor was.  Taylor was a king-sized DB who could play as smaller linebacker at 6'2 and 230.  Simmons has the frame to play defensive end.  I think he's going to end up measuring close to the same size that Montez played at in 2018, before he got really big for the NFL.  My guess is 6044 and 240 with 35 inch arms.

 

Sean was a classic head-hunting safety.  Simmons is something new.  He's basically the version of Jabrill Peppers/Devin Bush/Derwin James/Jamal Adams that's full-sized.  I don't think there's been a true overhang defender with edge defender size before.  It makes him a potent supplemental pass rusher and force player as well as the answer to neutralizing spread offense space.  Some team is going to get an amazing defensive weapon out of him, but I would be surprised if that team is us.  We seem to love Landon Collins and Ryan Anderson and I think we are going to give Reuben Foster another go.

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8 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Simmons is a great prospect, but if I’d compare him to a previous player, it might be Derrick Brooks on steroids. Or Brian Urlacher. Plug Simmons in at OLB in a 4-3 and he might have a HOF career in the mold of those guys. But he’s not going to hit and cover and intercept like Sean Taylor and he’s just not the same caliber prospect. 

 

Simmons can generate pretty hard contact because of how high his play strength is and how much mass he can bring to the fight and how fast he can close, but he's not the ferocious player that Sean was.  He likes to chop you down, not hit through you.  He doesn't have that anger in him that Sean did.  He can make plays further off his frame though, he's significantly bigger than Sean was.  It's probably a difference of like 2 or 3 inches of height and probably close to 25 pounds of good weight.  Simmons can walk around at 230 shredded.  Sean was sloppy at that weight.  And I think Simmons has a chance to measure with the longest arms of any of the defenders in this year's class.

 

Simmons is super instinctive too.  You'll see a lot of instances in his cut ups of him being the one who doesn't get fooled and rallying to the ball first.  He's better at finding the ball than his teammates.  And he has a knack for starring in Clemson's biggest games when they needed someone to step up and lead, like against Syracuse, UNC, South Carolina, and the CFP games.  That's usually a proof of good instincts.  Aggression and confidence too.  Necessary traits for starring at the next level.  He's led his college team to back to back NC games and killed an Alabama team that was supposed to be one of the greatest college teams ever.  I think he's as good a prospect as Sean was.

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Since Ron Ron and JDR are both former linebackers and our current strength is on the DL, I wonder if they would consider a trade down to get Simmons + the extra draft picks over Young. Our LB's are not stellar and we haven't had a great one in forever. Not saying I would do it just wondering if anyone thinks Skins brass would consider it given the situation. Is Simmons that good to warrant consideration of such a move? Asking the draft guys, idk..thanks!

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1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Since Ron Ron and JDR are both former linebackers and our current strength is on the DL, I wonder if they would consider a trade down to get Simmons + the extra draft picks over Young. Our LB's are not stellar and we haven't had a great one in forever. Not saying I would do it just wondering if anyone thinks Skins brass would consider it given the situation. Is Simmons that good to warrant consideration of such a move? Asking the draft guys, idk..thanks!


as some point Rivera will want a Kuechly equivalent on the defence. It might be a case of not being able to fix everything in one offseason on the defensive side of the ball, but we need impact Edge, stud LB, and a serious upgrade at FS. Jury is out at CB for me, would love to see some of the younger player progress to fill that void.

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6 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Since Ron Ron and JDR are both former linebackers and our current strength is on the DL, I wonder if they would consider a trade down to get Simmons + the extra draft picks over Young. Our LB's are not stellar and we haven't had a great one in forever. Not saying I would do it just wondering if anyone thinks Skins brass would consider it given the situation. Is Simmons that good to warrant consideration of such a move? Asking the draft guys, idk..thanks!


I love Simmons as a prospect. I think he is more generational at his position than Young is.

 

Ive made that clear.

 

But...

 

Im not sure how you pass on Chase Young. 

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With the taylor/simmons comparison its mostly about the build and athleticism.  It is hard to have that tall rangy body and still have elite bend and agility.  Even though they play different positions and have a different skill set, when both of those guys bend at the hips and make plays they look very similar.

 

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8 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

Since Ron Ron and JDR are both former linebackers and our current strength is on the DL, I wonder if they would consider a trade down to get Simmons + the extra draft picks over Young. Our LB's are not stellar and we haven't had a great one in forever. Not saying I would do it just wondering if anyone thinks Skins brass would consider it given the situation. Is Simmons that good to warrant consideration of such a move? Asking the draft guys, idk..thanks!

I asked this same question earlier.  If they did go this route though, I’d hope it’s because Del Rio sees a way to make use of that versatility.  If he (and/or Rivera) just want to add a stud linebacker to play a traditional LB role, then I think they’ll have made a big mistake in passing on Young.  
 

If the latter scenario is the case, getting Detroit’s 2nd or future 1st (maybe a later pick as well?) would ease that sting/mistake a bit... if we land a contributor/starter.   
 

I don’t see DR using Simmons to the best of his abilities based off what little I know, but I could be wrong... especially if his time out of football has opened his eyes to some things.  

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I would be disappointed if they pick a WR in rounds 1-4.   I think this group is set for starters.  Harmon is underrated as a potential number 2.  Looking at his play this year, he is exactly what we need here.  Size, physicality, good hands, good blocker, good routes, young and hungry.   They are all young and hungry at the starting spots, and they are all gamers.  The top 3 guys can all make big catches in big spots.  They could be one of the best ever tandems in washington.  let them grow and learn together, they want to be great.  They might even take haskins along for the ride ;)

 

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On 1/8/2020 at 9:37 AM, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

Did anyone else already post this? He looks good but not elite. Has some hands, speed, length and size. I don't know anything about him as a blocker. Looks like he might go before our pick in the 3rd. 

 

TE aint worth the time this year. It's a bad class. I'd be trying to trade a pick for one of the interesting young ones from '17-'19 classes, there's a ton of them of interest, but I know that aint gonna happen. We'll probably sign a FA. 

 

Bear in mind, about 95% of the time, even w/the elite guys, TE's don't produce in counting stats terms till year 3, so drafting a rookie TE to be a part of the passing game should've been done years ago, we just drafted a bust that we all knew was gonna be a bust, in Sprinkle (to be fair, he's a classic in line guy who catches 20 balls a year if he's an every down starter, he's not a total waste, he's just not good and it was obvious he had zero chance to become a Kittle/Kelce type player, or even a diet version (Mark Andrews, for instance, was considered by many the top TE in the '18 class a year out, but he got passed by several guys. Ended up being a steal after the Ravens were idiots and wasted a top 20 pick on an ancient overage prospect in Hayden Hurst (many here liked him, never understood that AT ALL). 

 

On the positive side, I had no idea we stole Caleb Wilson off the Cardinals practice squad. Guy had sneaky as hell upside, under some metrics over at rotoviz, he came out of their screener as the third/fourth best TE in the '19 class. Outstanding his final year at UCLA after a nondescript start. Hentges could also be one of those Will Dissly finds, where the athleticism is nothing special, but he just finds a way to be productive. 

 

 

 

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On 1/9/2020 at 6:55 AM, TheMalcolmConnection said:

 

Collins as a "free" first round pick for Dallas STILL chaps the hell out of my ass. :(

 

So you too are a part of the, "Screaming my ----ing head off" crew of redskins fans who utterly lost their ---- after he dropped entirely out of the draft because he just happened to date someone in years past who ended up getting killed? The police went out of their way to clear him w/the NFL, repeatedly stating they needed him for background (as in, do you know people who might have known her after you guys were done), GM's still ran like school girls for the exits as that top 10-15 prospect fell out of the draft entirely.

 

Needless to say, I found all of that beyond infuriating. For all the frustration Tunsil had to deal with, what happened to Collins was about 50,000x worse. Cowboys, so gd lucky, and for once, not stupid. 

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On 1/9/2020 at 2:13 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

That is compelling, and does look like an OT.  I also hope they go OT instead of Simmons (or Okudah).

 

Is he going off raw yards per game?  That's a misleading statistic, since teams run to protect a lead in the 2nd half of games.  By DVOA the top rushing teams were:

 

1) Ravens - yes

2) Cardinals - nope

3) Cowboys - nope

4) Packers - yes

5) Titans - yes

6) Seahawks - yes

7) Panthers - nope

8 ) Colts - nope

9) Browns - nope

10) Eagles - yes

 

That's a pretty even split for the Top 10.  5 made it and 5 didn't.  Even if you say just the Top 4 teams, then 2 made it and 2 didn't.  However if you go by passing efficiency, then the Top 4 teams all made the playoffs.  Ravens, Chiefs, Saints, and Seahawks.

 

In homage to Dan Snyder's poorly delivered Thanksgiving joke.  I'm thankful that when Gettleman talked about hiring some "computer folks", it seems he's talking about stuff he doesn't understand.  It also means he doesn't get statistics, doesn't get situational football, and hasn't changed the stats he's used since he came into the league.  No wonder Tisch and Mara hired him, he's old fashioned.

 

Also makes me think Tisch and Mara likely screwed up with their head coaching hire, choosing someone, anyone, from the Patriots that wouldn't interfere with their power structure (like Josh McDaniels would).  We all know Landon Collins is just a wee bit overpaid.  Disregarding the contract, I'm happy he's here.  But I still can't believe a Giants owner, specifically Tisch, intervened and cancelled a Landon Collins trade at the deadline last year.

 

Gettleman is a raging moron. That he stayed in place (and the horrific hire's he and the cowboys made) gives us essentially a mulligan for a year or two until they figure out their mistakes. Gettleman and the Giants are kind of paint by #'s drafters. Big college's, big names, basic positional targeting, not looking for value, not using analytics, they're idiots. My guess is, a massive reach for the OT to make it three mega reaches in three years. I don't think we should lock in the target though, who knows what OT they'd prefer. But at this point, it seems clear they want to get help for the OL. Only question is if they do that in FA or the draft. If they do it in FA, that's an unfortunate sign they may not screw up the pick. 

 

 

 

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On 1/11/2020 at 2:23 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yeah, 2004, 2007, and 2011 were all ridiculous.

 

2007:

Calvin Johnson

Joe Thomas

Adrian Peterson

Patrick Willis

Marshawn Lynch

Darrelle Revis

Marshal Yanda

Lawrence Timmons

Michael Griffin

Joe Staley

Ryan Kalil

Eric Weddle

 

2011:

Cam Newton

Von Miller

JJ Watt

Patrick Peterson

Julio Jones

Tyron Smith

Richard Sherman

A.J. Green

Jason Kelce

Ryan Kerrigan

Cameron Jordan

Aldon Smith

Robert Quinn

Mark Ingram

Mike Pouncey

Marcel Dareus

Cameron Heyward

Justin Houston

DeMarco Murray

Jurrell Casey

Chris Harris Jr (UDFA)

Doug Baldwin (UDFA)

I loved Udeze. My big plan back then was to trade back w/the Patriots and take Udeze and Wilfork with our picks. Woulda gone 1/2. Udeze struggled early on and had to retire early due to Leukemia. 

 

 

 

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