zskins

2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

Recommended Posts

We could really use a shutdown Corner as well. It seems everyone is in on Tackle, WR or pass rusher. But I wouldnt be pissed about trading back a couple of spots and taking Okudah or Fulton towards the bottom of the top ten if they are there. The other major position of need is TE and I started going through those guys this week. Unfortunately it doesnt look like a great TE draft to me. I like Okwuegbunam, Breeland and Brycen Hopkins. But I would not reach for any of those guys and I dont know that any of them will be there in round 3. Maybe Breeland?

Edited by clskinsfan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have a ton of cap space opening up this offseason. Hunter Henry should be available. We should make a move for him. If not him, trade for OJ or Hurst. TE’s take 2 years to develop, so I think if you are looking for a playmaker in this draft, wr should be a higher priority. Haskins has shown that he has a real skill set within an up tempo offense, and he is able to extend the play by moving in the pocket.  

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If we are in a position to trade down (ie, presuming Chase is gone and we find a trade partner) even with the top receiver and top tackle on the board... I’m doing it.  

 

I don’t think it’s been talked about much here, but in that trade down scenario, I’m looking to try to add a high 2021 pick (like say a 1st next year and 1st-4th this year).  I want to improve this offseason, but I also want to be looking to the future (we’re really not that close Bruce).  
 

@clskinsfan - yeah, corner is a big one, IMO.  In terms of the draft, it’s pretty much tied with receiver (after OT) for me.  Dunbar is a FA after this year and the rest are pretty much unproven (even if there’s some potential).  
I’ve mentioned that TE and corner are the two spots I’m looking at in FA, but I wouldn’t mind looking at the draft instead and saving the money to re-sign/extend our own (this year and down the line).  We tend to get wrapped up in the short term.  

Edited by skinny21
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it me.   Or does Isaiah Simmons of Clemson.  kind of remind you of Sean Taylor.  Just sayin. 

 

Go watch the tape.  He has to be a consideration in top five.   Replace Montae.

 

I dare to say you will reminisce watching him.

 

Karma.

Edited by Newera
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Here's latest PFF breakdowns.  I know some in the media crowned Wes Martin for last Sunday, seems like PFF wasn't as impressed.

He came into the game with a 44 rating or something. I don't know what his grade was for the Eagles game but considering he is now overall rated as average, I guess the game rating was not too bad.

6 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Every time I watch Alabama for one of their 47 day one and day two draft picks, Najee Harris is the one who jumps off the screen.  I absolutely love this kid.  I don't understand why everyone has apparently decided he's a third or fourth round pick.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I truly believe this kid is a stud and a first round talent.  He should be celebrated as one of the premier offensive skill players in the class.

I don't get that either. Every time I watched Bama (just couple of times) he was the most electrifying player besides Smith. I think he goes higher than anticipated but if we could get him in the third or fourth I'd be stoked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 12/16/2019 at 1:28 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Just watched a cutup on Youtube of every Haskins play.  [<-- Link] Specifically looking at Wes Martin.  Not much in the way of run blocking snaps there, but Wes looks legit.  He did have some issues against Brandon Graham, #55, but he was basically lock down against Fletcher Cox.  Not many Edge guys are in the mold of Graham, Suggs, Justin Tuck, Joey Bosa, etc.  Fantastic leverage, first step burst to power, that can slide inside and do that in a phone booth on passing downs.  Aaron Donald is the epitome of that first step explosion, get under the pads and then drive them back, and I imagine Wes Martin would not look good against Donald.  But Martin looked great in pass protection outside of the Graham matchups.

 

I don't think the Giants have anyone on their roster who can do that, so if Scherff misses another game, I'm expecting Martin to be solid in pass protection.

 

One play I want to highlight.  Go to 9:35 in the above linked cutup.  Most OL would just push them way wide of the pocket once you have the speed rush sealed off.  But Martin keeps driving his guy so there's absolutely no way he can make a play, or work back into the play if Haskins started pulling an Aaron Rodgers/Russell Wilson/etc and danced around back there buying time.

Now I understand how my wife feels when she watches Hallmark movies in December. Reading these positives about Martin gives me the warm and fuzzies, it is what I have been waiting to see! 

 

With Scherff on the IR Wes is going to get his chances to get plenty of playing time and increase that PFF rating

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

We have a ton of cap space opening up this offseason. Hunter Henry should be available. We should make a move for him. If not him, trade for OJ or Hurst. TE’s take 2 years to develop, so I think if you are looking for a playmaker in this draft, wr should be a higher priority. 

 

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am a pure BPA guy within reason.  So I am not looking at positions first but more about players.  Yet, I might make an exception for LT.  Your OL point is what's in that Breer article I posted.  Yeah agree there is a bigger demand for LT.  For me it depends on what else they do and how they evaluate the depth at both positions.  Typically the run happens earlier on tackle.  So intellectually I agree with your point.  But the emotion in me finds both Jeudy and Lamb very attractive.  I've seen them both play live.  I'll probably go see Jeudy again in this upcoming bowl game.  I think they are both going to be stars.  So if Kyle falls in love with either player and takes them and has a plan B at tackle -- no complaints from me.

 

I hope they do CB in FA.  Bryon Jones?  Dallas is supposedly going to let him go because of all the other contracts they got to deal with.  We might have 50 million or so in cap space and if they can't address a key need in FA then what's the point of building cap space?  That's how I look at it.

Perfect scenario would be for the Redskins to resign Flowers or Scherff and have Martin playing well,then bringing in a couple of good FA's to feel needs at TE, LT, and/or CB to allow more of a BPA draft.Then they could look more seriously at WR's early, or a Simmons or go edge, DB, OL where ever!  Would love Henry and Jones!

 

The issue I have with putting much thought into FA is who will be representing the Redskins at GM, HC or the coordinators. Also what avenue will whoever is in charge wish to go with schemes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He pops for me too.  To me he looks like a poor's man Derrius Guice.  He has a good stiff arm, feisty runner.  I say poor man's version not as a shot but because to me Guice is more explosive and even more physical but Harris plays in a similar manner IMO.   He has good balance, shifty, quick cuts.  I'd say what intrigues me the most about him is his hands.  He has good hands. so he's a complete back.  I haven't paid attention to his pass blocking but I'd presume Saban preaches that in all their RBs.   

 

His pass blocking can be explosive.  He has a lot of natural power and he can hit hard.  Can make a blitzer think twice about coming through next time.

 

I see a LeVeon Bell clone.  Same absurdly well put together build.  Same dancey, upright style.  Same effortless tackle-breaking style.  Same patience and ability to set up creases with these little micro-jump cuts before charging through them.  Same wide receiver caliber hands and body control.  Same fearlessness and palpable creativity.  That fearlessness stands out among a group of Alabama skill players that are skinny fast guys.  Defensive guys will chop down those talented receivers and they take hits that are just brutal some times.  But I can tell that Harris is never scared out there on the field, probably because he knows the defenders are always going to take the worst of their collisions.

 

The game of football just looks incredibly easy for him.  He's special and I think he's going to end up being one of the best players in the class.  I think he's better than Josh Jacobs was and I'm banging the table for him this year.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put this on the FA thread but for those interested, these are PFF best players for the year per position. 

 

NFC

Quarterbacks (3)

Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints (93.7), Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks (92.0) & Kirk Cousins, Minnesota Vikings (86.1)

 

Running Backs (3)

Christian McCaffrey, Carolina Panthers (87.4), Aaron Jones, Green Bay Packers (85.3) & Dalvin Cook, Minnesota Vikings (81.4)

 

Fullback (1)

Kyle Juszczyk, San Francisco 49ers (71.8)

 

Wide Receivers (4)

Chris Godwin, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (90.7), Michael Thomas, New Orleans Saints (89.9), Julio Jones, Atlanta Falcons (90.1) & Amari Cooper, Dallas Cowboys (87.1)

 

Tight Ends (2)

George Kittle, San Francisco 49ers (94.3) & Tyler Higbee, Los Angeles Rams (83.0)

 

Offensive Tackles (3)

Lane Johnson, Philadelphia Eagles (88.8), Ryan Ramczyk, New Orleans Saints (88.3) & La’el Collins, Dallas Cowboys (84.3)

 

Guards (3)

Brandon Brooks, Philadephia Eagles (92.7), Zack Martin, Dallas Cowboys (89.2) & Brandon Scherff, Washington Redskins (75.0)

 

Centers (2)

Jason Kelce, Philadelphia Eagles (77.4) & Frank Ragnow, Detroit Lions (76.0)

 

Edge Defenders (4)

Danielle Hunter, Minnesota Vikings (89.6), Arik Armstead, San Francisco 49ers (88.8), Jadeveon Clowney, Seattle Seahawks (88.8) & Nick Bosa, San Francisco 49ers (88.7)

 

Interior Defensive Linemen (4)

Aaron Donald, Los Angeles Rams (93.5), Grady Jarrett, Atlanta Falcons (89.7), Fletcher Cox, Philadelphia Eagles (87.3) & Vita Vea, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (78.2)

 

 Linebackers (3)

Eric Kendricks, Minnesota Vikings (90.7), Demario Davis, New Orleans Saints (89.9) & Lavonte David, Tampa Bay Buccaneers (89.4)

 

Cornerbacks (4)

Quinton Dunbar, Washington Redskins (87.6), Richard Sherman, San Francisco 49ers (86.6), Shaquill Griffin, Seattle Seahawks (81.8) & Troy Hill, Los Angeles Rams (76.4)

 

Safeties (3)

Marcus Williams, New Orleans Saints (90.1), Anthony Harris, Minnesota Vikings (87.0) & Harrison Smith, Minnesota Vikings (85.2)

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pffs-2020-nfl-pro-bowl-rosters

25 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

His pass blocking can be explosive.  He has a lot of natural power and he can hit hard.  Can make a blitzer think twice about coming through next time.

 

I see a LeVeon Bell clone.  Same absurdly well put together build.  Same dancey, upright style.  Same effortless tackle-breaking style.  Same patience and ability to set up creases with these little micro-jump cuts before charging through them.  Same wide receiver caliber hands and body control. 

 

I guess I have to pay more attention because when I do he doesn't seem to dance around as much as Bell, he struck more of a deliberate runner.   I agree with the hands component, that's what I mentioned it.  Guice to me has really good hands too, he just wasn't utilized much on that front at LSU.  I didn't realize Harris was 6 "2, he looked shorter to me when I am watching him.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I also think both players are tone setter types that I think the offense would feed off of.  

 

I see what you mean about tone-setting, but I've been going back through Jeudy's cut ups and there are some scary hits in it.  I'll give him credit for his toughness and for the fact that he doesn't make business decisions out there on the field, but he gets hit hard.  He doesn't have the spider sense for avoiding the bad hit and it looks like he consistently plays with a strength disadvantage that puts blood in the water for those safeties and linebackers.  In other words he fights for yardage in ways and in situations that get him lit up.  I don't think he feels out where the second defender is and how he's coming in.  And I don't think he always plays fast at the point of contact.  There are a lot of plays where he's not really moving when he catches it, and it's like he gets so open that the defenders are hauling ass so hard to close the gap that their momentum naturally transitions into crushing hits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I see what you mean about tone-setting, but I've been going back through Jeudy's cut ups and there are some scary hits in it.  I'll give him credit for his toughness and for the fact that he doesn't make business decisions out there on the field, but he gets hit hard.  He doesn't have the spider sense for avoiding the bad hit and it looks like he consistently plays with a strength disadvantage that puts blood in the water for those safeties and linebackers.  In other words he fights for yardage in ways and in situations that get him lit up.  I don't think he feels out where the second defender is and how he's coming in.  And I don't think he always plays fast at the point of contact.  There are a lot of plays where he's not really moving when he catches it, and it's like he gets so open that the defenders are hauling ass so hard to close the gap that their momentum naturally transitions into crushing hits.

 

Yeah I can see Jeudy ending up more injury prone.  Lamb to me is distinctly better in the open field than Jeudy.   Jeudy might be faster but he seems caught more than Lamb.  The kicker for me is while Lamb makes acrobatic catches and has insane hands -- Jeudy can have his share of drops.  I think Jeudy will be a really good player.  But I'd put money that Lamb ends up better. 

 

As for catching passes in the open field and going to the house, Ruggs might be the best bet among the Alabama receivers.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i just don't want to pick a receiver with our first pick.  The unit could  be upgraded with the pick but I feel we have too many needs on the O-Line and in the secondary to justify using a top 10 pick on a receiver even they are the best player available.

 

I would not feel obligated to take any receivers this draft though if there is one you really like in the fifth or seventh round go for it.  I feel like feeling like you have to take 1 in the 4th or 5th round is not a good idea because we already have a lot of young depth at that position.   To me you only take a receiver if you think its a potential upgrade to the unit (somebody who might be able to beat out Harmon).   There very well might be guys who meet that critieria in rounds 4 or 5, but we don't need young depth there.

 

Of course, what happens in free agency will partially determine what our biggest needs are in the draft.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

7 Alabama players including 3 WRs. 

8 WRs total....

 

thats crazy

 

 

I've seen 8 to 9 Alabama players being drafted in the first round in other mock drafts.  On a quick side note, Saban should win the National Championship every year, because every year he trots out a semi-pro football team.  Especially when the vast majority of his non-conference games are against teams most of us didn't know even had a football program. 

 

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming...my apologies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@philibusters - I generally agree with your stance above, but I feel like 1) Richardson, Quinn and perhaps Cams Sims are replaceable, 2) we could always use more ST players, 3) with the depth of this receiver class, it’s possible to get a good one in the mid rounds, and finally 4) (related to #1) having talented depth would be helpful (imagine McLaurin getting injured... it would totally change our perception of our wr corp).  
Again, in general, I agree in that I don’t want to force a pick.... I just wouldn’t assume the unit is ‘fine’.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I guess I have to pay more attention because when I do he doesn't seem to dance around as much as Bell, he struck more of a deliberate runner.   I agree with the hands component, that's what I mentioned it.  Guice to me has really good hands too, he just wasn't utilized much on that front at LSU.  I didn't realize Harris was 6 "2, he looked shorter to me when I am watching him.

 

He's got quality start-stop ability for a big-bodied power runner.  He likes to do these little hesitation steps into contact points so he can hit with his shoulders.  Those things are weapons.  That's why I think defenders play like they're the hunted rather than the hunters with him.  And that kind of physical superiority can translate to stardom IMO.

 

These plays demonstrate what I mean about the way he approaches contact from defenders.  Look at how he runs over Delpit on this play:

 

giphy.gif

 

It's like the safety is a fly to him:

 

giphy.gif

 

These plays are just bullying:

 

giphy.gif

 

giphy.gif

 

He gets Patrick Queen on this one:

 

giphy.gif

 

There's another one I'm searching for but can't find where he's in the air in the process of getting tackled by the first defender and he still manages to deliver a blow to the second tackler with that shoulder.  It's just like God.  There is nothing easy about hitting him.

 

It would be demoralizing to get Guice off the field only to have this monster come trotting over into the huddle.  That's a hard day's work for a defense.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@stevemcqueen1 What round are they anticipating this bruiser goes in?  I'd definitely take a look at him in the 3rd (or second if we can get one from a trade).  Wouldn't want to draft him with a first - that might create a bit of headache with Guice, who balked at the drafting of Bryce Love in the fourth last year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Every time I watch Alabama for one of their 47 day one and day two draft picks, Najee Harris is the one who jumps off the screen.  I absolutely love this kid.  I don't understand why everyone has apparently decided he's a third or fourth round pick.  Maybe I'm crazy, but I truly believe this kid is a stud and a first round talent.  He should be celebrated as one of the premier offensive skill players in the class.

At times, it's hard to know just how good Alabama players are because they play with so much talent around them.  In those highlights of Harris, the blocking and general offensive execution sticks out to me more.  Harris is constantly running down hill.  He looks like a man running against boys.  His level of elusiveness will probably be the determining factor on how high he is drafted.  Elusiveness is generally not required when running behind an Alabama offensive line.  We can plainly see that he is great at catching the football, however, and the NFL loves RBs who can do that.

 

I suspect the NFL combine will be where he plans on showcasing his quickness, agility, elusiveness, etc.  NFL scouts are probably as excited as he is to see what he can do.  Depending on how he performs could be the difference between being draft anywhere from the first to the third round.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Running back is a position where I would only use a first round pick if I really felt a player was special (like a once in every 3 years special).  More so than any other position, I think there are lots of guys capable of being solid starters.

 

For offensive tackles there are 64 starters in the league but you may have a situation where there are about 40 guys capable of being solid starters (or better) and another 60 or 70 of being serviceable starters.  At RB i feel like there are 32 starters, but probably 50 to 60 capable of being solid starters and another 80 to 90 of being serviceable starters.   So if you see a special player go for it, but finding capable running backs is easier than some of the other positions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Working within 4 actions and 1 "assumption" (Cap Rollover) in order of likeliness:

 

Current 2020 Cap Space: $33.9 million ... $94.1 Million 2021

Cap Rollover from 2019: $12.5 million

Total Cap into 2020: $46.6 million ...

 

1. Cut Norman - 2020 Cap goes to $58.83 Million ... 2021 Cap stays at $94.1 Million

2. Cut Reed - 2020 Cap goes to $67.38 Million ... 2021 Cap goes to $103.1 Million

3. Trade Trent - 2020 Cap goes to $80.1 Million ... 2021 Cap stays at $103.1 Million

4. Cut Alex Smith - 2020 Cap goes to $69.33 Million ... 2021 Cap goes to $127.55 Million

 

Option 4 isn't necessarily a given but if Smith transitions into the FO, and we have $80m in cap space through those first 3 moves, it would be a logical time to dump his salary.

 

That's a lot of cash. Of course 2020 FA and re-sign and draft moves will change the 2021 numbers, but there is very little long-term money on the books, which is good news for re-signing the young guys that will be coming due during that time-frame. But our Cap situation is actually quite good long-term with or without Smith.

 

*Edit: I know this isn't the FA thread, but I think it's good context to understand where our resources can go in the off-season.

Edited by JamesMadisonSkins
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welp, Jones is starting this weekend.  Facing Eli would have been a guaranteed L.  Now it's more like 50-50.  Tanking 101 by the Giants.

 

I'm resigning myself to ending up with the 5th overall pick at best.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Welp, Jones is starting this weekend.  Facing Eli would have been a guaranteed L.  Now it's more like 50-50.  Tanking 101 by the Giants.

 

I'm resigning myself to ending up with the 5th overall pick at best.

This should be in the prediction thread.  If you put it there, I will definitely leave a comment, because this is good to know. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

This should be in the prediction thread.  If you put it there, I will definitely leave a comment, because this is good to know. 

 

Maybe.  It affects our opportunities regarding future draft prospects, so I put it here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Look at how he runs over Delpit on this play:

From what I've read, that's a common theme with Delpit.  He can't tackle.

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

It would be demoralizing to get Guice off the field only to have this monster come trotting over into the huddle.  That's a hard day's work for a defense.

 

Giants back in the late 00's.  The behemoth known as Brandon Jacobs added with Derrick Ward and Ahmad Bradshaw.  That was just a backfield you did not want to face.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.