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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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2 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

I’m taking a really long look at Isaiah Simmons with our first rounder.

 

I love that kid, but he's exactly the kind of player we don't draft.  When's the last time we were forward looking?  Especially on defense.  We have a ton of money invested in Landon Collins and we envision him as this stud overhang player even though he's not as good as we seem to think he is.  And we also seem completely content with Holcomb and Hamilton and I think we've got plans for Reuben Foster.

 

I am almost 100% positive we won't draft Simmons.  We're going to continue to run a very conventional defense and live and die with smallish box thumpers like the Bama guys and Holcomb and maintain very regimented roles for them and our edge rushers.  We're not going to be pioneering a hybrid overhang defender/edge rusher with a monstrously built player who is out there ****ing terrifying opponents and making defensive coaches rethink what an edge defender can be.

 

And left tackle is our comfort blanket position where we have a legacy.  We don't feel safe without a stud player there.  It's going to be a left tackle in the first round of some sort.  Probably Andrew Thomas if he's on the board.  It's a completely uncontroversial decision that will draw zero criticism from anyone.  He's been given a top five blessing by the draftnik community and someone is going to pick him in the top five.

 

I still get the feeling Lamb/Jeudy/Simmons/Okudah/Brown are better than him though, and that he's not going to be BPA when we pick him.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

I think the tackles and Najee Harris and Jeudy will all go pro.  I think Ruggs should consider it but that he might stay.  I get a feeling that Tua is going to stay too.

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2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I love that kid, but he's exactly the kind of player we don't draft.  When's the last time we were forward looking?  Especially on defense.  We have a ton of money invested in Landon Collins and we envision him as this stud overhang player even though he's not as good as we seem to think he is.  And we also seem completely content with Holcomb and Hamilton and I think we've got plans for Reuben Foster.

 

I am almost 100% positive we won't draft Simmons.  We're going to continue to run a very conventional defense and live and die with smallish box thumpers like the Bama guys and Holcomb and maintain very regimented roles for them and our edge rushers.  We're not going to be pioneering a hybrid overhang defender/edge rusher with a monstrously built player who is out there ****ing terrifying opponents and making defensive coaches rethink what an edge defender can be.

 

 

Man I agree with you. We are going to start seeing the rise of these LJ types. I think the players are starting to be there, but the "old guy club" coaching hasn't really embraced it. It's going to change. Not that LJ's are everywhere, but they're getting more common. I was listening to the game and someone made a great point. The normal thing to do defensively is put a spy on the mobile QB and his only job is to shadow the QB, but if the QB is a good amount faster than the defender, all it does is eliminate a defensive player. It's definitely the way the NFL is going to go. There's a reason the LJ is probably the best QB this year without even considering his ground game numbers.

 

Simmons is the answer to LJ.

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8 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Man I agree with you. We are going to start seeing the rise of these LJ types. I think the players are starting to be there, but the "old guy club" coaching hasn't really embraced it. It's going to change. Not that LJ's are everywhere, but they're getting more common. I was listening to the game and someone made a great point. The normal thing to do defensively is put a spy on the mobile QB and his only job is to shadow the QB, but if the QB is a good amount faster than the defender, all it does is eliminate a defensive player. It's definitely the way the NFL is going to go. There's a reason the LJ is probably the best QB this year without even considering his ground game numbers.

  

Simmons is the answer to LJ.

 

I think he's more than a spy, I think he's a straight up edge player & slot DB hybrid.  To me he's how you recompress the field against the spread and simultaneously supplement your pass rush.  All of the best overhang defenders in the NFL are built like safeties: Derwin James, Jamal Adams, Harrison Smith, etc.  Even a full grown Kam Chancellor wasn't like Simmons, and he was effectively the size of a WILL.  Heavy edge duty isn't realistic or sustainable for them.  Simmons is probably out there playing at almost the same size that Montez Sweat was last season at Mississippi State.  Match ups with tight ends are wins for him.  He's going to be able to play force at the line and routinely rush from 7 and 9 alignments like a speedy edge player as well as give you all of the traditional blitzing and box/alley duty of a regular overhang player.  A six or seven sack season is an anomalous and great year for a player like Jamal Adams or Derwin James.  That will be a routine season for Simmons.  And he's faster than Travis Etienne.  He's able to do stuff like run with wide receivers in island coverages and bail to deep zones following A gap blitz fakes, you can't exploit him by lining up little players on him.

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49 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think he's more than a spy, I think he's a straight up edge player & slot DB hybrid.  To me he's how you recompress the field against the spread and simultaneously supplement your pass rush.  All of the best overhang defenders in the NFL are built like safeties: Derwin James, Jamal Adams, Harrison Smith, etc.  Even a full grown Kam Chancellor wasn't like Simmons, and he was effectively the size of a WILL.  Heavy edge duty isn't realistic or sustainable for them.  Simmons is probably out there playing at almost the same size that Montez Sweat was last season at Mississippi State.  Match ups with tight ends are wins for him.  He's going to be able to play force at the line and routinely rush from 7 and 9 alignments like a speedy edge player as well as give you all of the traditional blitzing and box/alley duty of a regular overhang player.  A six or seven sack season is an anomalous and great year for a player like Jamal Adams or Derwin James.  That will be a routine season for Simmons.  And he's faster than Travis Etienne.  He's able to do stuff like run with wide receivers in island coverages and bail to deep zones following A gap blitz fakes, you can't exploit him by lining up little players on him.

 

 

 

So what would you do with him?  Schematically.   I love the idea of adding a guy like this, because he is the type of player that offensive coordinators and qbs need to always figure out where he is at all times.  

 

I admit i have not watched him closely, so i ask you, how are his ball skills?  

Edited by OVCChairman

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Which offense would you pick (every rating is how the player compares to others at his position):

 

QB:  8th best in League

RB:  42th best in League

WR1:  59th best in League

WR2:  62nd best in League

WR3:    95th best in league

TE: 46 best in League

LT:  5th best in League

LG: 10th best in leaue

Center:  11th best in League

RG:  14 best in League

RT:   7th best in League

 

or  

 

QB:  36th best in League

RB:  5th best in League

WR1:  5th best in League

WR2:  30th best in League

WR3:    43th best in league

TE: 7th best in League

LT:  28th best in League

LG: 23th best in leaue

Center:  19th best in League

RG:  30th best in League

RT:   18th best in League

 

The first offense has a solid QB and O-Line, but is weak at RB, WR, and TE.  The second team solid at RB, WR, and TE.  I would definitely take the first team as I think offenses are built around QB and O-Line and the skill position are the difference between a good and great offense.  I feel like we already have a good WR on the team in McLaurin.  We need a LT.  I admit Jeudy is probably a better player than Thomas, but I would Thomas over Jeudy.

 

On defense, so much depends on scheme, but I am more inclined than on offense to pick the best player available.  That said I would still factor in need so a replace for Kerrigan and Norman would be defensive draft priorities, but I would be interested in picking Simmons if we had around the 10th pick and offense didn't need the pick a lot more.  Plus our defense has more young decent personnel already which gives you the luxury of going after the best player more.

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52 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

 

So what would you do with him?  Schematically.   I love the idea of adding a guy like this, because he is the type of player that offensive coordinators and qbs need to always figure out where he is at all times.  

 

I admit i have not watched him closely, so i ask you, how are his ball skills?  

 

I'd play him the way Clemson does.  Mostly overhang safety and WILL but his role would depend on the package and change regularly.  One thing I would make sure to do is design pass packages where he's playing the edge as a rusher and a slot corner.  I don't want them to be able to tell if he's going to be playing bump and run or blitzing.  In general I'd want him blitzing and playing downhill quite a bit instead of spending all day in coverage because I want him hitting people.  I would use Hamilton and Collins in zones with a safety deep to fill gaps in the coverage so you're basically looking at pass personnel with three safeties and a coverage Mike.  You can also play with three down linemen and generate edge pressure with Simmons with that kind of second level personnel so you can get the extra corner or linebacker on the field.  That's the beauty of Simmons.  You get everything from edge rusher to slot corner to Will to overhang safety to deep safety in one guy.  

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I actually hope this ends up true.  I just think right now he's on a highway straight to the NY Giants.  And I am not excited about adding to their legacy of elite rushers they've had in their history.  I also think as perfect as Young would be for our D line, he would be equally perfect for the Giants D line.  The Giants already have one really good pass rusher.  And Lawrence has arguably been borderline elite up the middle.  I think their D tackles with Lawrence, Tomlinson and BJ Hill rivals our rotation.  You give them a killer pass rusher and then their D line IMO is one of the best in the league.  Or said differently, if you add Young to their D line, it's better than ours IMO. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Chase Young saw who was sitting at 2&3 and noped out.

 

:ols:

Edited by KDawg
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1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Chase Young saw who was sitting at 2&3 and noped out.

 

:ols:

pretty ridiculous considering there will always be a bad team at 2 and 3.  

 

Him choosing to stay in school could make it more difficult to land Jeudy, if that's who the Skins wanted.  I think they need to trade down and pick up a bunch of good picks.  We need more than just one great player.

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32 minutes ago, SkinsFanMania said:

 

 

Him choosing to stay in school could make it more difficult to land Jeudy, if that's who the Skins wanted.  I think they need to trade down and pick up a bunch of good picks.  We need more than just one great player.

 

I bet the Giants go Thomas or Wirfs or Wills or trade down from #2 versus taking Jeudy if Chase doesn't enter the draft.  Giants have really good guards but lousy tackles so a tackle I think is where they go.   Especially if Gettleman is still there since he's a build the trenches kind of guy.

 

But frankly I wouldn't care if they took Jeudy.  I like Jeudy but I'd take Lamb over him or at the least the two players IMO are close enough.  Yet, I don't think we'd go receiver either.  I think both the Giants and Redskins go for a tackle if Young is gone.   Similar to the Trent-Okung dynamic in 2010.

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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18 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I love that kid, but he's exactly the kind of player we don't draft.  When's the last time we were forward looking?  Especially on defense.  We have a ton of money invested in Landon Collins and we envision him as this stud overhang player even though he's not as good as we seem to think he is.  And we also seem completely content with Holcomb and Hamilton and I think we've got plans for Reuben Foster.

 

I am almost 100% positive we won't draft Simmons.  We're going to continue to run a very conventional defense and live and die with smallish box thumpers like the Bama guys and Holcomb and maintain very regimented roles for them and our edge rushers.  We're not going to be pioneering a hybrid overhang defender/edge rusher with a monstrously built player who is out there ****ing terrifying opponents and making defensive coaches rethink what an edge defender can be.

 

And left tackle is our comfort blanket position where we have a legacy.  We don't feel safe without a stud player there.  It's going to be a left tackle in the first round of some sort.  Probably Andrew Thomas if he's on the board.  It's a completely uncontroversial decision that will draw zero criticism from anyone.  He's been given a top five blessing by the draftnik community and someone is going to pick him in the top five.

 

I still get the feeling Lamb/Jeudy/Simmons/Okudah/Brown are better than him though, and that he's not going to be BPA when we pick him.

If Bruce Allen stays, we are going tackle 100%. I called this months ago. its an ego thing and tackle is also a need and won’t be much of a reach.

 

i 100% agree with your post and it is a shame that we are not forward thinking enough to build a defense around a player like Simmons. 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

So the Giants are going to take Chase and Thomas away from us. I hate them so much.

 

If the Giants got Chase I'd be devastated. But Thomas isn't in any way a top 5 pick. In a good LT class he'd probably barely be a 1st rounder IMO. Having payed more attention to him after some on here mentioned his shortcomings and watching youtube videos I see those same shortcomings. I think he'll be a decent NFL LT but not special and you really want special with a top 5 pick. I'd be ok with trading down and maybe taking him with a top 15 pick if he's still there.

Edited by mistertim
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11 hours ago, SkinsFanMania said:

pretty ridiculous considering there will always be a bad team at 2 and 3.  

 

Him choosing to stay in school could make it more difficult to land Jeudy, if that's who the Skins wanted.  I think they need to trade down and pick up a bunch of good picks.  We need more than just one great player.

But not always a badly run team. 2 out of the first 3 are horribly run.  Maybe if Young absolutely knew he would not be going to either the Bengals or Redskins he would be more likely to enter the draft. (if a player is that adamant about avoiding certain teams he should just tell them not to draft him and that he won't play for them if they do).

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

If the Giants got Chase I'd be devastated. But Thomas isn't in any way a top 5 pick. In a good LT class he'd probably barely be a 1st rounder IMO. Having payed more attention to him after some on here mentioned his shortcomings and watching youtube videos I see those same shortcomings. I think he'll be a decent NFL LT but not special and you really want special with a top 5 pick. I'd be ok with trading down and maybe taking him with a top 15 pick if he's still there.

It's why I'd take Jeudy over Thomas. Thomas is good - Jeudy is elite.

Edited by nonniey

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Could be way off base on this line of thinking, but I wonder if a new CBA for the 2021 season will have an impact on rookie contracts. Not back to the levels of years gone by, but say there was likely to be decent increase in the rookie pay scale, or that the parameters of the deals may change, like renegotiate after 3 years instead of 4 years.

 

Perhaps a player like Young returning to college in 2020 would have some financial background to the decision?

 

No idea, just a randomn thought.

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Cooley on a podcast gave his prescription to improve the team.

 

He wants Chase Young.  He said he's the closest thing he's seen to Lamar Jackson but on defense in that he impact almost every play.

 

He thinks they need a LT, one marquee receiver, TE.  On defense not much -- mainly just a shut down corner. 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

So the Giants are going to take Chase and Thomas away from us. I hate them so much.

 

Hopefully Eli goes out on a high note and delivers some dubs

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41 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Hopefully Eli goes out on a high note and delivers some dubs

I hope he lights it up big time. Go gnats

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54 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley on a podcast gave his prescription to improve the team.

 

He wants Chase Young.  He said he's the closest thing he's seen to Lamar Jackson but on defense in that he impact almost every play.

 

He thinks they need a LT, one marquee receiver, TE.  On defense not much -- mainly just a shut down corner. 

 

 

I agree with Cooley on everything except the Chase thing. I just do not see him as the next LT. I saw him do nothing in two games against college left tackles so how is he going to do against NFL tackles. They moved him from side to side and still no pressure and he was not double teamed. He is no Clowney IMO. We def need a pass catching tight end and another receiver. Shut Down corners are always a priority so are good Left tackles but I am not impressed with Chase. 

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28 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

I agree with Cooley on everything except the Chase thing. I just do not see him as the next LT. I saw him do nothing in two games against college left tackles so how is he going to do against NFL tackles. They moved him from side to side and still no pressure and he was not double teamed. He is no Clowney IMO. We def need a pass catching tight end and another receiver. Shut Down corners are always a priority so are good Left tackles but I am not impressed with Chase. 

 

He was doubled teamed plenty when I paid attention.   I hope the Giants see Young the same way as you.  I suspect though he's their guy if they can take him. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He was doubled teamed plenty when I paid attention.   I hope the Giants see Young the same way as you.  I suspect though he's their guy if they can take him. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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