zskins

2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

Recommended Posts

Interesting tweet below. Ramsey played most of his career with an incredible front 7. This is another example of why you take the Edge rusher (Young) over the CB (Okudah) every time if they are at a similar talent level.  Not that Young isn’t a better talent than Okudah any way, but this just makes it even harder for me to justify a trade down if we have a chance to take Young. 

 

 

 

It’s a similar situation, but in reverse, with the Minkah Fitzpatrick trade. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Interesting tweet below. Ramsey played most of his career with an incredible front 7. This is another example of why you take the Edge rusher (Young) over the CB (Okudah) every time if they are at a similar talent level.  Not that Young isn’t a better talent than Okudah any way, but this just makes it even harder for me to justify a trade down if we have a chance to take Young. 

 

 

It mirrors our experience with Josh Norman in some ways.  I think it goes to show you that DB is a lot like OL in that the unit has to play on a string to be successful. 

 

If you give up the farm to get a stud LT but the rest of your OL is trash, then your OL is still going to be trash.  It can only be as strong as its weakest link.  This is even more true for a secondary.

 

One corner, no matter how good, can not fix a secondary.  And when breakdowns start happening they tend to snowball all over the field because the DBs lose confidence in where they're supposed to be and start trying to adjust to problems on the fly and they start losing their assignments.  It's the position that requires the biggest stable IMO.  I believe you need at least seven truly good defensive backs to run a good secondary in the modern NFL.  And the best secondaries, like Green Bay's, have DBs who can move into each of the roles so that they can constantly keep their rotation flowing.

 

Given that it's the biggest platoon position group, trading down for multiple late firsts and getting Trevon Diggs and Jaylon Johnson >>>>> staying put in the top five and drafting Jeff Okudah.  It's not close IMO.

 

Position value/dynamics aside, I think that the biggest problem with the Ramsey trade is that no team should ever give up multiple first round picks for any non QB, especially players on second contracts.  It's too much to invest in a non-QB, and too much for a player in the second half of his 20s.  I think doing a similar trade for Khalil Mack has hurt the Bears and massively benefited the Raiders.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hoping we put in a waiver claim for 1st round bust (so far) Vernon Hargreaves who was cut by the Bucs today... could help going forward with a change of scenery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

Ah ok, I doubt it will scare anybody off since it was a loan from a non-agent and he paid it back I think.

 

Yeah I seriously doubt it will scare anyone off. He got a loan from a friend to bring his girlfriend to a game and paid the loan back. Did he technically break the rules? Possibly. But (assuming it's true) that's about as milquetoast an NCAA rule violation as I've ever heard, and I've never read anything negative about his character or any other off the field issues. If we want Chase we'll need to be in the top 3. Maybe even top 2. He's hands down the best player in the draft.

 

Edited by mistertim
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Hoping we put in a waiver claim for 1st round bust (so far) Vernon Hargreaves who was cut by the Bucs today... could help going forward with a change of scenery.

 

Hard pass.  Statistically, 1st round corners of Hargreaves stature always bust.  He's short with short arms.  Add in a lack of recovery speed/burst and it's an uphill battle for him.  Now some safeties his size have had success.  I don't know if Tampa ever tried him out there.  But I also think I'd rather roll with Apke and see if he can't develop further, than roll with Hargreaves and see if he'll stop sucking with a position switch.

 

Apke costs $745K this year, and he's still under a million for 2020 and 2021.

Hargreaves costs $4.5M this year and $9.6M next year.

 

We've got some awkward contracts on our roster, we've also got Alex Smith's injury guarantee hampering cap decisions.  To put it simply, the team can't afford to gamble on a longshot.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched the Washington-Oregon State game to see Trey Adams after he made PFF's team of the week.  I was reasonably pleased considering I hadn't really liked what I'd seen from him to this point.  He had a nice seal block that ended up helping to spring a long touchdown run in the third quarter, to help break the game open.  I also only noticed him getting beat once in pass pro.  Got fooled by an unusual outside-in move.  He did get away with a pretty blatant hold on a long throw that ended up being an incompletion, so it didn't really effect the outcome of the play that much.

 

He is what he is.  A competent starting caliber zone scheme tackle who should be steady in the right scheme and capable of protecting the left side against most match ups.  He's not going to be a good fit for a power running team and he's not going to be able to do a lot of different things for you in the run game, and he's going to struggle against real edge speed.  He's not a dominant player at all and he doesn't play to the whistle in the ground game, but he generally gets his job done.  With his ability level and his injury history, he's a second round talent.  But he'll probably go in the first because of positional demand.  He's better than Garrett Bolles and Kolton Miller were.

 

This game as a whole was pretty bad.  It's clear that both teams are scuffling in the Dog Days portion of a disappointing season.  For the people who put on some Dwayne Haskins cutups in September and thought they were seeing bad quarterbacking, I suggest they watch this game to learn what quarterbacking from guys who are on the borderline of getting NFL looks actually looks like.  Eason and Luton are two of the better QBs in CFB this year, and they were just lousy.  Eason wasn't seeing the field well at all despite clean protection and a productive ground game and Luton couldn't manage the pressure or deliver the ball on time at all.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PFF's Latest Top 100 Prospect Board

 

2020 NFL Draft: PFF Top 100 Big Board Update

 

1. QB JOE BURROW, LSU

2. QB TUA TAGOVAILOA, ALABAMA

3. EDGE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE

4. WR JERRY JEUDY, ALABAMA

5. CB JEFFREY OKUDAH, OHIO STATE

6. WR CEEDEE LAMB, OKLAHOMA

7. OT ANDREW THOMAS, GEORGIA

8. LB ISAIAH SIMMONS, CLEMSON

9. OL TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA

10. EDGE A.J. EPENESA, IOWA

11. KRISTIAN FULTON, LSU

12. OT ALEX LEATHERWOOD, ALABAMA

13. WR LAVISKA SHENAULT, COLORADO

14. QB JUSTIN HERBERT, OREGON

15. EDGE CURTIS WEAVER, BOISE STATE

16. S GRANT DELPIT, LSU

17. CB C.J. HENDERSON, FLORIDA

18. DI DERRICK BROWN, AUBURN

19. CB TREVON DIGGS, ALABAMA

20. CB BRYCE HALL, VIRGINIA

21. DI JAVON KINLAW, SOUTH CAROLINA

22. EDGE JULIAN OKWARA, NOTRE DAME

23. WR HENRY RUGGS, ALABAMA

24. DI MARVIN WILSON, FLORIDA STATE

25. WR TEE HIGGINS, CLEMSON

26. S ASHTYN DAVIS, CALIFORNIA

27. OT JOSH JONES, HOUSTON

28. WR JALEN REAGOR, TCU

29. OL NETANE MUTI, FRESNO STATE

30. CB CAMERON DANTZLER, MISSISSIPPI STATE

31. WR TYLER JOHNSON, MINNESOTA

32. OT JEDRICK WILLS JR., ALABAMA

 

The rest is at the link: https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2020-nfl-draft-pff-top-100-big-board-update

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Shame. I wanted to see Chase break the single season sack record in a single game.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, zskins said:

SI Mock Draft 

 

2. Washington Redskins: Andrew Thomas, OT, Georgia

 

Kill me.  I've changed my tune on OL worth and value in general.  Positional value isn't as high as I once thought.  I'm not talking about OT vs IOL.  I'm talking about OT (or OL in general) as an elite, blue-chip, team-changing, position.  And it's not that.  You can't even say premier LT's guard the blindside either.  Statistically, QB's fumble just as often from sacks from behind as they do from the front.  You can move an elite pass rusher around to attack the RT, if the LT is amazing.  Most teams stick their best pass rushers over against the RT anyways.

 

We had one of the most talented LT's in the league, who made 7 pro-bowls in a row.  Yet if the LG beside him screwed up it didn't matter if Trent Williams dominated on that play.  One elite player can only elevate the OL by so much.  You need a minimum level of quality across all 5 spots.

 

Patriots have a great OL coach, a routinely good OL, yet don't spend much money or draft capital on that position.  Their highest paid player is Shaq Mason at an average of 9 million a year.  Below that is Marcus Cannon.  We're talking about Morgan Moses level of contracts here, not Trent or Scherff.

 

They've had good OL and let them walk.  Overpaying for 1 spot when all 5 matter seems to be something they do not do.  Recently they've let two starting OT's and their main backup OT walk:

 

OT Trent Brown, 16.5 million a year, he's helped fix Oakland's OL issues

OT Nate Solder, 15.4 million a year, he's been mediocre.

OT Cameron Fleming, 2.5 million a year, backup swing tackle for Cowboys (was that as well for Patriots)

 

Here's how the Patriots rank in OL spending in the NFL:

2014 - 28th

2015 - 16th

2016 - 10th

2017 - 23rd

2018 - 29th

2019 - 29th

Projected 2020 - 25th

 

During that time frame, they've spent Three 6th rounders, Five 4th rounders, Three 3rd rounders, and One 1st rounder on OL.  No 2nd rounders.

 

Now I'm not saying we should replicate that, I'm not against drafting OL later in the 1st round.  But I'm saying spending the 2nd overall pick in the draft on an OT doesn't make sense from a team building perspective.  Especially when Chase Young is an option.

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Now I'm not saying we should replicate that, I'm not against drafting OL later in the 1st round.  But I'm saying spending the 2nd overall pick in the draft on an OT doesn't make sense from a team building perspective.  Especially when Chase Young is an option.

 

While I agree with the overall sentiment that elite OT's aren't as valuable as they used to be, I disagree with using the Patriots as an example.  The GOAT QB - who usually knows the intricacies of the defensive formation a given team is running against him better than a majority of the defenders do - covers for a lot of the talent deficiency on that OL, and has done so consistently.  Now, Scarnecchia (Patriots OL coach) has a lot to do with that as well, as the Patriots learned to their detriment in 2015, the season after they let Scarnecchia go and Von and Demarcus abused their OL all game in the AFCCG, which knocked the Patriots out of the playoffs.  They gave him his job back ASAP that offseason.  But I think the point still stands that the Patriots model can hardly be used as convincing evidence due to the powerful big brother they have covering their backs in Brady.

 

To further that point, if you take a look at adjusted sack rankings here through week 10, you'll see that the teams with the highest adjusted sack rates are led by bottom-half-of-the-league and/or rookie QBs: the bottom 10, in order are TEN, NYJ, MIA, DEN, WAS, ARI, NYG, CHI, TB, CAR.  I doubt those OL's would be so low if Tom Brady was their QB.

 

But like I said, I agree with the overall sentiment.  One great player on the OL can only do so much, unlike what one great player on the DL can do.  If we have a chance to draft Young and turn that down by reaching for a worse player at a less premium position, that might be the last straw for me as a fan of this franchise.

Edited by HTTRDynasty
  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

But like I said, I agree with the overall sentiment.  One great player on the OL can only do so much, unlike what one great player on the DL can do.  If we have a chance to draft Young and turn that down by reaching for a worse player at a less premium position, that might be the last straw for me as a fan of this franchise.

 

Fair enough, good point.  (Only quoting part of your post)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, zskins said:

SI Mock Draft 

 

2. Washington Redskins: Andrew Thomas, OT, Georgia

If we did that especially if Young was still available I would probably find the nearest bridge to jump off. This is the Redskins so this prediction wouldn't surprise me at all if it happened.  

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, DazedSkinsfan said:

If we did that especially if Young was still available I would probably find the nearest bridge to jump off. This is the Redskins so this prediction wouldn't surprise me at all if it happened.  

 

If we took Andrew Thomas, who IMO isn't close to an elite or top 5 talent, over a generational pass rushing talent in Chase Young at #2 overall, I would have to take some time to strongly consider whether I should drink a bottle of vodka to drown my sorrows in booze for a while or a bottle of antifreeze to just end it all quickly. 

 

But it would absolutely be a Redskins thing to do. Reach for need and pass on a far superior talent. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been watching Oregon a lot this year.  They're dominating with that offensive line.  Small runningbacks with mediocre playmaking ability, a shaky QB, and a middling group of receivers.  But they've been putting up 35-40 PPG and beating up good fronts with great OL play.  Last year the Patriots won the Superbowl on the strength of great OL play and a lockdown secondary.

 

The position group is highly valuable.  It takes a significant commitment of team building resources to build overwhelming capacity on your OL, and it's hard to keep the band together for season after season.

 

You've got to find a ton of value to build a great OL.  I think that argues for trading down and compiling assets.  Getting good great coaches to make something out of high upside projects.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Been watching Oregon a lot this year.  They're dominating with that offensive line.  Small runningbacks with mediocre playmaking ability, a shaky QB, and a middling group of receivers.  But they've been putting up 35-40 PPG and beating up good fronts with great OL play.  Last year the Patriots won the Superbowl on the strength of great OL play and a lockdown secondary.

 

The position group is highly valuable.  It takes a significant commitment of team building resources to build overwhelming capacity on your OL, and it's hard to keep the band together for season after season.

 

You've got to find a ton of value to build a great OL.  I think that argues for trading down and compiling assets.  Getting good great coaches to make something out of high upside projects.

Thockmorton is a stud

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

97 PFF score is insane.  We are lucky to get a player in the low 80s on this team from time to time. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I don't understand is how before the season started everyone said hands down Tua is an all world can't miss talent and now that he lost 1 game playing on a bad leg every mock draft being released has Burrow as the number 1 pick.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.