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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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I'm going to start giving turorials on how to be mean and funny. Everyone else is bad at it.

 

The Skins are going to end up with the #2. Bruce is going to pull some insane trade that leaves the Skins with all kinds of picks. And it will all lead to a starting guard.

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I’m debating starting a draft strategy thread, but think it’s pretty narrow , and probably not worthy of its own discussion outside of this thread. However, presuming we end up at #2 in the draft, what would be your ideal strategy going forward?


Buyers Approach

A: Draft the #1 prospect, Chase Young

B: draft the bpa TE/FS in the 3rd

 

Sellers Approach

A: Trade the pick for a ransom  ( two 1sts + more depending on team)

B: Trade Kerrigan and Trent for a 1st, and two 3rds collectively 

C. Attempt to draft Wirfs and Jeudy/TE/OL in the 1st with draft capital

D. trade a 3rd for O.J. Howard and a 5th
E: bpa TE/WR in the 2/3 rounds

Edited by Skin'emAlive
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F: Watch Chase Young go to another team and be a perennial All-Pro monster while we get a couple of extra decent players. 

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16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

F: Watch Chase Young go to another team and be a perennial All-Pro monster while we get a couple of extra decent players. 

If Chase Young is as good as everyone says then we should just pick him and walk away.

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21 minutes ago, mistertim said:

F: Watch Chase Young go to another team and be a perennial All-Pro monster while we get a couple of extra decent players. 


It’s a tough call. One that Chicago is facing. They have an All pro in Mack, but because they used their draft capital on him, they couldn’t upgrade the OL. 
 

We have the opportunity to move an extremely valuable pick to upgrade multiple positions this year and next. We need an overhaul at the tackle and tight end positions. 

Edited by Skin'emAlive

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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:


It’s a tough call. One that Chicago is facing. They have an All pro in Mack, but because they used their draft capital on him, they couldn’t upgrade the OL.

 

It's not just that.  It's that Chicago also tied up a huge portion of the cap into Mack and gave up the draft capital.

 

Mack is an amazing player, and it's far too early to judge the trade.  It doesn't help that Trubisky just isn't mentally an NFL QB.

 

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You can’t ask guys like Allen, Trubisky, or Jackson to be who they aren’t. Baltimore built extensively around Jackson. Buffalo to a lesser extent. And due to the cost of Mack, Chicago hasn’t at all. They could have drafted a lineman in the 2nd, and kept theirs rbs for another season. Instead they spent it on Montgomery, who can’t find any rushing lanes. 

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2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

If Chase Young is as good as everyone says then we should just pick him and walk away.

 

Pretty much. IMO you don't get cute if a guy like that falls into your lap unless someone is willing to give you an absolutely ludicrous haul of picks. Even then I'd be hesitant and it would depend on how far down we'd be moving. I think Young is a superior prospect to Bosa and look what sort of impact Bosa has had in SF. 

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25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Pretty much. IMO you don't get cute if a guy like that falls into your lap unless someone is willing to give you an absolutely ludicrous haul of picks. Even then I'd be hesitant and it would depend on how far down we'd be moving. I think Young is a superior prospect to Bosa and look what sort of impact Bosa has had in SF. 

SF already had a plethora of defensive talent that they accumulated over the years. Plus they traded for Dee Ford. 

 

I just don't want to be in a position in three years where we have all out money tied up on the DL. We'll have to pay Allen, Payne, maybe Sweat and then Young? Rather work on depth and fill in as many holes as we can.

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17 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

SF already had a plethora of defensive talent that they accumulated over the years. Plus they traded for Dee Ford. 

 

I just don't want to be in a position in three years where we have all out money tied up on the DL. We'll have to pay Allen, Payne, maybe Sweat and then Young? Rather work on depth and fill in as many holes as we can.

 

I can understanding not wanting a ton of our money tied up in DL, but if there's one place to load up (besides OL) IMO that's the one. I'm also sick of not having any true superstar talent on our team. Our DL has some really good pieces in Allen, Ioan, and Payne (and maybe Sweat) but none of them are All-Pro level material. They make a really strong unit but they don't truly terrorize anyone. Imagine that unit with an honest to god stud like Chase Young.

 

Depth is necessary and it's great to have but so much of the time it seems that a bunch of our players are closer to "depth" guys than stars. It still sort of drives me bonkers that we passed on Derwin James for Payne. Don't get me wrong, I think Payne is a really solid player for us and a great cog in that line, but he isn't a superstar like James is (granted that James is hurt, but there's still no doubting that the guy is a stud). 

 

If we trade back and net some more picks we might get lucky and get a couple of good starters. But I'd personally rather have a force of nature like Young than a couple more "good" cogs in the machine. I was watching Young's cutups again over the weekend and he simply looks unstoppable on most snaps. His percent of pass rush snaps where he wins his match up is ridiculously high (I can't remember what it is off the top of my head but he's in astronomical territory). I'd just have a really hard time passing up on a guy who may almost immediately become a Garrett, Mack, Miller type of talent off the edge. 

Edited by mistertim
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14 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I can understanding not wanting a ton of our money tied up in DL, but if there's one place to load up (besides OL) IMO that's the one. I'm also sick of not having any true superstar talent on our team. Our DL has some really good pieces in Allen, Ioan, and Payne (and maybe Sweat) but none of them are All-Pro level material. They make a really strong unit but they don't truly terrorize anyone. Imagine that unit with an honest to god stud like Chase Young.

 

Depth is necessary and it's great to have but so much of the time it seems that a bunch of our players are closer to "depth" guys than stars. It still sort of drives me bonkers that we passed on Derwin James for Payne. Don't get me wrong, I think Payne is a really solid player for us and a great cog in that line, but he isn't a superstar like James is (granted that James is hurt, but there's still no doubting that the guy is a stud). 

 

If we trade back and net some more picks we might get lucky and get a couple of good starters. But I'd personally rather have a force of nature like Young than a couple more "good" cogs in the machine. I was watching Young's cutups again over the weekend and he simply looks unstoppable on most snaps. His percent of pass rush snaps where he wins his match up is ridiculously high (I can't remember what it is off the top of my head but he's in astronomical territory). I'd just have a really hard time passing up on a guy who may almost immediately become a Garrett, Mack, Miller type of talent off the edge. 

Would you rather Young or, say Okudah, Wirfs and say Henry Ruggs?

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8 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Would you rather Young or, say Okudah, Wirfs and say Henry Ruggs?

 

I think it would have to be Young or Okudah because IMO they'll both be top 5 picks. Okudah is a great DB prospect but IMO not quite in the arena of Chase Young as far as blue chip value and potential to be an All-Pro level guy. If we missed out on Young I'd be ok with Okudah without trading down but if we managed to trade down a spot or two, pick up a couple of picks (say we picked #3 overall, Tua or Burrow go 1st, Young goes 2nd and you have someone a spot or two behind who you is willing to give up some nice picks to make sure they get the other QB) and still get Okudah that would be a huge win for us.

 

As far as Tackles I'm not quite as high on this class as I was earlier in the CFB season. I had high hopes for Thomas but he hasn't impressed that much so far. He's very agile and athletic for a guy his size, good footwork, and he's very good in pass pro but he's more of a finesse player and can leave quite a bit to be desired in his run blocking. He just doesn't seem to have much of a nasty streak and doesn't look very strong at the point of attack...he tends to lunge a bit too often and can bend too much at the waist as well. I like him but IMO he's definitely not a top 3 guy. Maybe top 10 but still not sure about that. I like some of Wirfs game and I think he could be a decent get in the middle or lower first but I wouldn't take him before then. 

 

If we traded back a bit farther and managed to get a mid and late 1st round pick (let's say if the Phins trade us their second late 1st rounder and we move down a couple times from way up top) I'd be ok with Ruggs in the middle and Wirfs closer to the end of the 1st. But it would also depend on what other talent was available. I think Ruggs could be a great deep threat with his speed and Wirfs I believe will be a good but not great Tackle. But IMO neither of them will be near the level of player that Case Young will be. 

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4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think it would have to be Young or Okudah because IMO they'll both be top 5 picks. Okudah is a great DB prospect but IMO not quite in the arena of Chase Young as far as blue chip value and potential to be an All-Pro level guy. If we missed out on Young I'd be ok with Okudah without trading down but if we managed to trade down a spot or two, pick up a couple of picks (say we picked #3 overall, Tua or Burrow go 1st, Young goes 2nd and you have someone a spot or two behind who you is willing to give up some nice picks to make sure they get the other QB) and still get Okudah that would be a huge win for us.

 

As far as Tackles I'm not quite as high on this class as I was earlier in the CFB season. I had high hopes for Thomas but he hasn't impressed that much so far. He's very agile and athletic for a guy his size, good footwork, and he's very good in pass pro but he's more of a finesse player and can leave quite a bit to be desired in his run blocking. He just doesn't seem to have much of a nasty streak and doesn't look very strong at the point of attack...he tends to lunge a bit too often and can bend too much at the waist as well. I like him but IMO he's definitely not a top 3 guy. Maybe top 10 but still not sure about that. I like some of Wirfs game and I think he could be a decent get in the middle or lower first but I wouldn't take him before then. 

 

If we traded back a bit farther and managed to get a mid and late 1st round pick (let's say if the Phins trade us their second late 1st rounder and we move down a couple times from way up top) I'd be ok with Ruggs in the middle and Wirfs closer to the end of the 1st. But it would also depend on what other talent was available. I think Ruggs could be a great deep threat with his speed and Wirfs I believe will be a good but not great Tackle. But IMO neither of them will be near the level of player that Case Young will be. 

I meant between Chase and all three of Okudah, Wirfs and Ruggs because if we trade down we'll likely get an additional first and second.

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4 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I meant between Chase and all three of Okudah, Wirfs and Ruggs because if we trade down we'll likely get an additional first and second.

 

Not sure how that would work outside of Miami swapping their top 1st rounder with us along with giving up their other 2 later 1st rounders that they got from Pitt and Houston. I have a hard time seeing them giving up that much. If they did, and I had to choose between Young and Okudah + Wirfs + Ruggs it would be a tough one. I think both Ruggs and Wirfs are going to be 1st rounders so I don't see them lasting until the 2nd but it's always possible that one of them could fall so if we swapped with the Phins, they gave us one of their other 1sts as well as their high 2nd it could happen. 

 

Gotta be honest, I'd still be tempted to say no and take Young anyway. It would be a very tough call but a prospect that damn good really just doesn't come along very often. It would be sort of like passing on Calvin Johnson for a few other lesser players. 

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8 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure how that would work outside of Miami swapping their top 1st rounder with us along with giving up their other 2 later 1st rounders that they got from Pitt and Houston. I have a hard time seeing them giving up that much. If they did, and I had to choose between Young and Okudah + Wirfs + Ruggs it would be a tough one. I think both Ruggs and Wirfs are going to be 1st rounders so I don't see them lasting until the 2nd but it's always possible that one of them could fall so if we swapped with the Phins, they gave us one of their other 1sts as well as their high 2nd it could happen. 

 

Gotta be honest, I'd still be tempted to say no and take Young anyway. It would be a very tough call but a prospect that damn good really just doesn't come along very often. It would be sort of like passing on Calvin Johnson for a few other lesser players. 

I think Ruggs is that one receiver that drops mid to late 2nd or even third. He'll be the third Bama WR that drops after the breakout game that Smith had and Jeudy being consensus top 5.  There's always a receiver that kills the combine like Guidry or Pittman. It's a deep receiving group with the afformentioned bama trio along with Lamb, Higgins, Shenault, Reagor and Jefferson. Wirfs could go either way as well in terms of where in the first or even early second. That's the only compelling argument for Young for me. The drop off after him at DE is massive. No other position is close to that gap. 

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1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

I just don't want to be in a position in three years where we have all out money tied up on the DL. We'll have to pay Allen, Payne, maybe Sweat and then Young? Rather work on depth and fill in as many holes as we can.

You trade them before you have to resign them. But we’re too stupid for that. Just like we’re too stupid to not trade aging talented players to competing teams, too stupid to get rid of continually injured players, and too stupid to wait for a new coach to draft his qb.

 

i think we’ll overdraft a tackle to remedy the Trent issue. It just fits Bruce’s ego.

 

But Qb is going 1,2 this year imo and we can very much capitalize on the trade fever if we land either.  

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2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I can understanding not wanting a ton of our money tied up in DL, but if there's one place to load up (besides OL) IMO that's the one. I'm also sick of not having any true superstar talent on our team. Our DL has some really good pieces in Allen, Ioan, and Payne (and maybe Sweat) but none of them are All-Pro level material. They make a really strong unit but they don't truly terrorize anyone. Imagine that unit with an honest to god stud like Chase Young.

 

Depth is necessary and it's great to have but so much of the time it seems that a bunch of our players are closer to "depth" guys than stars. It still sort of drives me bonkers that we passed on Derwin James for Payne. Don't get me wrong, I think Payne is a really solid player for us and a great cog in that line, but he isn't a superstar like James is (granted that James is hurt, but there's still no doubting that the guy is a stud). 

 

If we trade back and net some more picks we might get lucky and get a couple of good starters. But I'd personally rather have a force of nature like Young than a couple more "good" cogs in the machine. I was watching Young's cutups again over the weekend and he simply looks unstoppable on most snaps. His percent of pass rush snaps where he wins his match up is ridiculously high (I can't remember what it is off the top of my head but he's in astronomical territory). I'd just have a really hard time passing up on a guy who may almost immediately become a Garrett, Mack, Miller type of talent off the edge. 


This is exactly the foundational question we very may well find ourselves asking. Which is more important to the long term success of the franchise? 
 

1. Bringing in a potential all pro DE to a line that already has a huge investment and will inevitably need to be broken up at some point due to salary? But in the process hoping our mid round picks at the OL and TE positions are the answer for Haskins. 
 

2. Flipping that pick for multiple picks with the goal of surrounding our young qb and rbs with quality talent at the expense of passing on a potential all pro DE. 
 

This question would be a no brainer if we had traded Trent to Houston when the opportunity came knocking...

Edited by Skin'emAlive
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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

This question would be a no brainer if we had traded Trent to Houston when the opportunity came knocking

That to me is the killer. If had made that trade or really any trade where we got back a first (Cleveland’s would have looked mighty good right now) i would have no problem drafting Chase and maybe taking that first and getting a couple of seconds. Now we have a malcontent LT that won’t ever play for us and no second.

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Best case scenario: we pick #2 and a QB needy team is at #4 and offers us a bounty to move up. We slide down to 4 and take Chase Young.

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4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Best case scenario: we pick #2 and a QB needy team is at #4 and offers us a bounty to move up. We slide down to 4 and take Chase Young.

 

How does that work? Won't whoever is picking at #3 take Chase before our turn?

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4 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Best case scenario: we pick #2 and a QB needy team is at #4 and offers us a bounty to move up. We slide down to 4 and take Chase Young.

 

No way Young is dropping to 4.  We need to stay in the top 3 if we want a chance at drafting him. 

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1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

How does that work? Won't whoever is picking at #3 take Chase before our turn?

I mean I'm hoping the situation with Chase at OSU right now scares some teams from the top off.

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1 minute ago, Warhead36 said:

I mean I'm hoping the situation with Chase at OSU right now scares some teams from the top off.

 

Ah ok, I doubt it will scare anybody off since it was a loan from a non-agent and he paid it back I think.

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If a team can work an extension with Williams, I’d think we have a good chance at a late 1st or a later 2nd and maybe another pick (from a contender that needs a tackle and isn’t enamored with this OT class), but I could be way off base.

 

Free Agency needs to be factored in as well.  Not sure what this FA class will look like, but we should have plenty of money to play with.  If we can sign a starting caliber corner, picking Chase makes a lot more sense to me.  I’d still be concerned about our oline and an additional weapon (or 2) for Haskins though...  Re-signing Scherff might be a no-brainer given the above.  

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11 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

SF already had a plethora of defensive talent that they accumulated over the years. Plus they traded for Dee Ford. 

 

I just don't want to be in a position in three years where we have all out money tied up on the DL. We'll have to pay Allen, Payne, maybe Sweat and then Young? Rather work on depth and fill in as many holes as we can.

Maybe it would make sense to trade one or two of our d-linemen on draft day and take the pick to grab a legit safety to go with Collins? For instance, if we deal Kerrigan, Trent and possibly Ionaiddis we could then take Chase Young and either a safety in the 1st round or, more likely a left tackle. 

Boy, linemen were dropping like flies this weekend, the Chiefs and Rams notable got pounded. I could easily see Andy Reid giving us a package of picks for Trent and Kerrigan on draft day. Both of these two would really help the Chiefs. 

We have great youth and potential on our d-line, no need to keep Kerrigan at his age. 

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