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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Isn’t this supposed to be a good year for tackles?

 

TBH it's actually pretty disappointing.

 

I didn't really like Walker Little before he got hurt, and was not impressed at all by what I saw in Trey Adams.  Chase Young straight up smoked his ass and it was an alarming preview of what's in store for him at the next level.  He did not look like he even belonged on the same field with him and he's supposed to be a top 16 pick?

 

Alaric Jackson has been playing hurt I think.  This hasn't been a good season for the Iowa OL.

 

And more than anything, Wirfs and Thomas aren't as good as I'd hoped they would be.  They're lungers with sketchy hands and much weaker run blockers than pass blockers.  And the nasty isn't always there with them, particularly Thomas.  Wirfs has a contact balance issue and I think both of them are playing behind what they're seeing with their eyes this year.  Too many snaps where they're just not in sync.  Their pass protections can be flat out gorgeous, and I see the flashes of why people have been thinking top ten with them.  Their movement skills are so, so good and they have prototype builds.  But I think both could really use another year of school before jumping to the NFL.  I want to see them put it all together on the field and have really complete performances before I feel OK with taking them early in the first.  But I also understand that you have to pick up the phone when the NFL comes calling.

 

It just makes me really uneasy about them.  The bust potential is high with those two.  The rest of the guys I've seen aren't first round caliber.  Throckmorton has been the only consistently clean Senior and he's not a first round caliber talent.  Day two guy who gets the job done, not a special player at the position.  The top sophomores have been head and shoulders better than the juniors and seniors IMO.

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1 hour ago, Fresh8686 said:

I need to watch more of Cosmi, he's so athletic, but hopefully will gain some more anchor strength as he develops. I've just watched him a bit against LSU. He held up well for the most part against guys like Chaison or whatever. Didn't see him get beaten by much, other than a bullrush in the 2nd quarter which was just a pressure and not a sack. He lunges a bit at the iine and needs to keep his head up, but I love his attitude and this was only the second game of the year. 

Oregon will be even more fun to watch next year if the younger Sewell commits to play for them.

 

I think Oregon is in the running to get another 5 star linebacker too, but I don't keep up with the recruiting very much.  They're going to have some horses on D next season I think.  Too bad they're losing so many guys on the offensive side of the ball.

 

I loved what I saw from Cosmi in that LSU game.  I think he had a couple of holds (which may have been borderline) but other than that he was an animal.  They didn't get anything from Chaison when he was on Cosmi's side.  Move him over the RT and stunt him and he started going off.  He's a very good and underrated prospect in his own right and he's given the SEC tackles problems.

 

After that game I went back and watched some of Cosmi's play from his freshman season when he was on the right side.  He wasn't bad, but the jump he made from that season to this one was HUGE.  He is improving at a very rapid pace and he's already one of the best tackles in the country IMO.  It's a complete skillset with him, the pass pro is very strong and the move and cut blocking are excellent.  And the attitude/play style is ideal.  A lot of the Big 12 guys get shook by the aggressiveness and talent of the good SEC guys when they play each other.  Not Cosmi.  He was the blood thirsty tone setter in that trench battle.  I love him.

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On 10/29/2019 at 11:20 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If it bothers anyone I'll take it off.

 

Reason I put it here is we are talking about the roster and upgrades here in a more geeky way than others do in other threads.  So I find it relevant from time to time to post.

 

I like that you post those.  Helps us see where our roster is at, and also gives us broader context seeing the constituent parts of how other teams are performing.  I don't always pay much attention to other teams.  I watch a ton of college games and I watch the Redskins and I try and watch the prime time NFL games just to kind of keep up with the stuff the league is running, but the general NFL viewing takes a back seat to the college and Redskins viewing.

 

One thing I notice from your chart is that Cody Ford should have gone back to Oklahoma for this season.  That is my exact fear with Thomas and Wirfs this season.  They're faster than Ford was though.

 

I see their DL is playing well, but what's going on with Ed Oliver?  Is he not playing many snaps?

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8 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

One thing I notice from your chart is that Cody Ford should have gone back to Oklahoma for this season.  That is my exact fear with Thomas and Wirfs this season.  They're faster than Ford was though.

 

I see their DL is playing well, but what's going on with Ed Oliver?  Is he not playing many snaps?


At least a 50% chance Wirfs returns, he loves college, I’d be surprised if he declared.

 

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7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

At least a 50% chance Wirfs returns, he loves college, I’d be surprised if he declared. 

 

My vote is for him to go back.  I believe many of his issues are technique driven and that he can get better with his hands and he can play with a higher level of focus, balance, and consistency.  When I listen to his interviews, I know he knows what needs to be done in game.  But I don't think it's all coming together for him yet.  I think he can get there next year and have the game slow down for him and he can demonstrate his superiority on the field in a much palpable and consistent manner.

 

Also that Iowa offense is kind of funky and poorly quarterbacked.  Everything is out of sync.  They have a chance to be better next year.

 

If Wirfs does go back, can you believe how athletic that tackle group is going to be next season?  I want to trade Trent for a 2021 first.

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1 minute ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

My vote is for him to go back.  I believe many of his issues are technique driven and that he can get better with his hands and he can play with a higher level of focus, balance, and consistency.  When I listen to his interviews, I know he knows what needs to be done in game.  But I don't think it's all coming together for him yet.  I think he can get there next year and have the game slow down for him and he can demonstrate his superiority on the field in a much palpable and consistent manner.

 

Also that Iowa offense is kind of funky and poorly quarterbacked.  Everything is out of sync.  They have a chance to be better next year.

 

If Wirfs does go back, can you believe how athletic that tackle group is going to be next season?  I want to trade Trent for a 2021 first.


If Wirfs returns ... that 2021 class is insanity, some people think Isaiah Wilson has the most talent if any OT in the country, the class will be ridiculous. I’m almost always in favor of getting a later #1, I’m a patient human, let the others keep their immediate gratification & we will be preparing for world domination. 
 


 

 

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Speaking with Fran Duffy on the 'Journey to the Draft' podcast, SB Nation's Geoff Schwartz compared Oregon senior T Calvin Throckmorton to former Washington T Kaleb McGary due to a similar position versatility.

Schwartz noted that McGary "kind of climbed up draft boards late" due to his versatility (McGary ultimately landed as a Day 1 pick with the Falcons). The analyst described the 6-foot-6, 318-pounder as a "big, physical kid" who is "very bright." Throckmorton could play tackle, guard or (in a pinch) center at the next level. Crucial for his stock and standing, Throckmorton has recovered in full from the dislocated ankle he sustained in bowl action last winter and shown no issues on the health front during the current campaign.

Oct 30, 2019, 4:35 PM ET
  •  

Speaking with Fran Duffy on the 'Journey to the Draft' podcast, Pro Football Network's Tony Pauline said that Oregon sophomore T Penei Sewell has been "unbelievable."

"I don't think I've ever seen a guy [who] people already assume will be the best tackle in the draft a year before it happens," Pauline said of the 6-foot-6, 325-pound Sewell, who will not be eligible to declare until after the 2020 season. Earlier this month, PFF's Cam Mellor tagged Sewell as the second-best non-offensive-skill-player in CFB (OSU's Chase Young is Mellor's pick as the best). Barring injury or an unexpected stalling in his development, Sewell could well land as a top-10 pick two springs from now.

Oct 30, 2019, 3:24 PM ET
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31 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

 

 

It's been awhile but I've been on Wallace before myself, putting up monster numbers.   Be nice to have an extra first rounder or to have a 2nd round pick in this draft -- the receivers I bet in the 32-45 range are going to be first round caliber in the typical draft

 

 

 

 

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1. EDGE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE

Last Week: 3rd

Young makes his debut at No. 1 but not his debut on our Heisman list as he’s reached at high as No. 2 and been on our Heisman radar for six weeks now after making his debut after Week 3. The new leader in the clubhouse put forth yet another dominant game against Wisconsin in Week 9 except this game was a bit different. He finished with the highest grade we’ve ever given to an edge defender at the college level in a single game at least 25 snaps. He’s crushing records on a game-by-game basis and putting forth the best season we’ve ever seen from a player on either side of the ball in our time of grading football at any level. Young is winning over 32% of his pass-rushing snaps this season and is on pace to not only break that record but our single-season grade mark for overall and pass-rushing. He is special and deserves all the recognition the national media can give him.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/college-football-pff-heisman-watch-after-week-9

TANK FOR CHASE!

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I'm all about not drafting OL in Round 1 this year, and that's before I read Steve's take on OT group.  I think it shouldn't be too hard to have a decent OL next season with what we've got, re-sign some.  Would give us a year to see where Geron Christian is at, now that he's actually healthy enough to practice, grow, and get a stronger anchor.  If he pans out, we probably need an OT anyways as we'll want to move on from Morgan Moses contract.  His Cap Hit in 2021 would be 9.65 million.

 

I read on Athletic that Foster Moreau has been one of the best rookie TE's in all-around ability.  I believe this forum was fairly high on him, I remember being upset we didn't take him in the 4th.  Hoping Bryce Love pans out, but I think I'd rather have a hyper athletic all-around TE.

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35 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I read on Athletic that Foster Moreau has been one of the best rookie TE's in all-around ability.  I believe this forum was fairly high on him, I remember being upset we didn't take him in the 4th.  Hoping Bryce Love pans out, but I think I'd rather have a hyper athletic all-around TE.

 

Count me in as one of those.

 

Also agree about OT at this stage, if Bruce was trying to trade/bring in a playmaker I see WR/CB high on the agenda. 

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001071592/article/nfl-rookie-rankings-nick-bosa-leads-top-25-at-midseason-mark

 

NFL rookie rankings: Nick Bosa leads top 25 at midseason mark

 
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  • 2012_Jeremiah-65x90.jpg
  • By Daniel Jeremiah
  • NFL Media analyst
  • Published: Oct. 31, 2019 at 12:11 p.m.
  • Updated: Oct. 31, 2019 at 02:16 p.m.
  •  
 
 

 

 

With the 2019 NFL regular season at its midpoint, former NFL scout Daniel Jeremiah has reviewed his notes from the first half of the season to rank the top 25 rookies in the league today.

NOTE: Arrows reflect changes from the first-quarter rookie rankings.

 

RANK

1

Nick Bosa

 

 

Team: San Francisco 49ers | Position: Edge rusher

Bosa has already emerged as the best pure power rusher in the NFL. He's the leading contender for Defensive Rookie of the Year and is also very much in the discussion for Defensive Player of the Year.

 

 

RANK 2

Gardner Minshew

 

 

Team: Jacksonville Jaguars | Position: QB

Minshew has clearly been the top passer in this year's rookie class. He's made plays in the structure of the offense and he's proven to be a dangerous improvisor.

 

 

RANK

3

 

Josh Allen

 

Team: Jacksonville Jaguars | Position: Edge rusher

Allen was a steal for the Jaguars at No. 7 overall. He is tied with Bosa for the sack lead among rookies and he's been consistently disruptive every week.

 

 

RANK

4

Josh Jacobs

 

Team: Oakland Raiders | Position: RB

The top running back in this draft class, Jacobs has brought a physical dimension to the Raiders' offense. Look for him to be more involved in the passing game in the second half of the season.

 

 

RANK

5

 

Devin Bush

1 

 

Team: Pittsburgh Steelers | Position: LB

Bush is a sideline-to-sideline 'backer who's made impact plays on the football. He's given the Steelers a much-needed playmaker at the second level of their defense.

 

 

RANK 6

Kyler Murray

1 

 

Team: Arizona Cardinals | Position: QB

Murray has made steady improvement and he's catching up to the speed of the pro game. He doesn't have much talent in front of him, but he's found a way to make the Cardinals a competitive team.

 

 

RANK

7

 

Daniel Jones

 

 

Team: New York Giants | Position: QB

The sixth overall pick is coming off his best performance of the season, and he's more than justified the Giants' faith in him. He does need to clean up some fumble issues but otherwise he's been excellent.

 

 

RANK

8

 

Brian Burns

 

 

Team: Carolina Panthers | Position: Edge rusher

Burns is a blur off the edge, and the Panthers pass rush is one of the most improved units in the entire league. I love his effort and tenacity.

 

 

RANK

9

 

Terry McLaurin

2 

 

Team: Washington Redskins | Position: WR

Washington has been miserable in the first half of the season, but McLaurin has been a bright spot. He has elite speed and his route running savvy jumps off the screen.

 

 

RANK

10

 

Elgton Jenkins

2 

 

Team: Green Bay Packers | Position: OG

The Packers offensive line is much improved from last year and Jenkins deserves his share of credit for the boost. He's been the most consistent rookie offensive lineman this season.

 

 

RANK

11

 

Darnell Savage

9 

 

Team: Green Bay Packers | Position: S

Savage has a beautiful blend of speed, instincts and toughness. He has missed a couple games due to injury and his absence was noticeable in the backend of the Packers secondary.

 

 

RANK

12

D.K. Metcalf

5 

 

Team: Seattle Seahawks | Position: WR

Metcalf is still a work in progress, but he's produced several chunk plays and he's proven to be a worthy red-zone target for Russell Wilson.

 

 

RANK

13

 

Dexter Lawrence

NA

 

Team: New York Giants | Position: DT

The 342-pounder is more than just a space eater up front for the Giants. He uses his quickness to be disruptive against the pass and has outstanding lateral range against the run.

 

 

RANK

14

 

Dalton Risner

1 

 

Team: Denver Broncos | Position: OG

Risner has been the Broncos most consistent lineman this season. He's shown solid awareness and has held up well in pass pro.

 

 

RANK

15

 

A.J. Brown

1 

 

Team: Tennessee Titans | Position: WR

Brown is a physical specimen and he's been outstanding after the catch. I believe the Titans have one of the most underrated WR duos in Brown and Corey Davis.

 

 

RANK

16

 

Miles Sanders

4 

 

Team: Philadelphia Eagles | Position: RB

Sanders is starting to get more involved in the Philly offense and he's making a big difference. He has outstanding burst and he's a weapon in the passing game.

 

 

RANK

17

 

T.J. Hockenson

12 

 

Team: Detroit Lions | Position: TE

Hockenson hasn't had the production I was anticipating, but he's still valuable in the run game. I expect him to takeoff in the second half of the year.

 

 

RANK

18

 

Mecole Hardman

4 

 

Team: Kansas City Chiefs | Position: WR

The speedy wideout fits beautifully in the Chiefs' system and he's helped them overcome some early-season injuries at the position.

 

 

RANK

19

 

Erik McCoy

4 

 

Team: New Orleans Saints | Position: C

McCoy, the first of back-to-back centers on this list, has been a reliable starter for the Saints this season. He can move people in the run game and he's firm in pass protection.

 

 

RANK

20

 

Garrett Bradbury

NA

 

Team: Minnesota Vikings | Position: C

Bradbury struggled in pass pro early in the season but he quickly improved. He's always been excellent in the run game with his ability to reach and cutoff defensive tackles.

 

 

RANK

21

 

Marquise Brown

11 

 

Team: Baltimore Ravens | Position: WR

Brown has missed some time due to an ankle injury but he was electric earlier in the season. If he can return to full health, he'll quickly climb back up this list.

 

 

RANK

22

 

Chase Winovich

8 

 

Team: New England Patriots | Position: DL

Winovich doesn't start for the Patriots but he's contributed some key sacks for the league's top defense. He is slippery off the edge and he's got a knack for finishing.

 

 

RANK

23

 

Maxx Crosby

NA

 

Team: Oakland Raiders | Position: Edge rusher

Crosby has been the hidden gem in the Raiders draft class. He is long and athletic, which has helped him emerge as Oakland's best edge-rush presence.

 

 

RANK

24

 

Cole Holcomb

NA

 

Team: Washington Redskins | Position: LB

Holcomb has been a tackling machine for the Redskins. I love his aggressiveness to fill the hole inside and he's got plenty of speed to make plays outside the tackle box.

 

 

RANK

25

 

Quincy Williams

NA

 

Team: Jacksonville Jaguars | Position: LB

Williams was having an exceptional year up until a Week 5 meeting with Christian McCaffrey and Co. that did not end well for the rookie linebacker. The Murray State product has missed time with a hamstring injury, but should continue making splash plays as a result of his incredible speed and range when he returns.

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On 10/31/2019 at 2:02 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I'm all about not drafting OL in Round 1 this year, and that's before I read Steve's take on OT group.  I think it shouldn't be too hard to have a decent OL next season with what we've got, re-sign some.  Would give us a year to see where Geron Christian is at, now that he's actually healthy enough to practice, grow, and get a stronger anchor.  If he pans out, we probably need an OT anyways as we'll want to move on from Morgan Moses contract.  His Cap Hit in 2021 would be 9.65 million.

 

I read on Athletic that Foster Moreau has been one of the best rookie TE's in all-around ability.  I believe this forum was fairly high on him, I remember being upset we didn't take him in the 4th.  Hoping Bryce Love pans out, but I think I'd rather have a hyper athletic all-around TE.

This years top OT's went from looking like a great group to iffy. I seriously watched Wirfs for the first time last week and was disappointed in his movement skills but love his instincts. Steve's info pushed me a little further from Thomas which SUCKS.

 

The Skins may need to settle on stabilizing the interior through current players and the draft. Then come up with a top TE that both helps the OT's blocking and is an offensive weapon. They should have tried to handle this lastr year or in trading TW. 

 

Wondering....Is there any chance Moses can play G and become the swing OT if needed? If so he could be worth extending to reduce his cap hit. Otherwise He needs to go. It then might be int heir best interest to extend Flowers soon. and make a Scherff decision. The concern I have is what ability the Redskins will have to draw FA interest due to all of the blunders the FO has produced even prior to the TW issues.

Edited by DWinzit
added last paragraph

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On 10/31/2019 at 10:09 AM, volsmet said:

There is probably a better term for pursuing Chase. 🤨

Disgrace for Chase...

Dung for Young!

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On 10/30/2019 at 2:27 PM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

TBH it's actually pretty disappointing.

 

I didn't really like Walker Little before he got hurt, and was not impressed at all by what I saw in Trey Adams.  Chase Young straight up smoked his ass and it was an alarming preview of what's in store for him at the next level.  He did not look like he even belonged on the same field with him and he's supposed to be a top 16 pick?

 

Alaric Jackson has been playing hurt I think.  This hasn't been a good season for the Iowa OL.

 

And more than anything, Wirfs and Thomas aren't as good as I'd hoped they would be.  They're lungers with sketchy hands and much weaker run blockers than pass blockers.  And the nasty isn't always there with them, particularly Thomas.  Wirfs has a contact balance issue and I think both of them are playing behind what they're seeing with their eyes this year.  Too many snaps where they're just not in sync.  Their pass protections can be flat out gorgeous, and I see the flashes of why people have been thinking top ten with them.  Their movement skills are so, so good and they have prototype builds.  But I think both could really use another year of school before jumping to the NFL.  I want to see them put it all together on the field and have really complete performances before I feel OK with taking them early in the first.  But I also understand that you have to pick up the phone when the NFL comes calling.

 

It just makes me really uneasy about them.  The bust potential is high with those two.  The rest of the guys I've seen aren't first round caliber.  Throckmorton has been the only consistently clean Senior and he's not a first round caliber talent.  Day two guy who gets the job done, not a special player at the position.  The top sophomores have been head and shoulders better than the juniors and seniors IMO.

 

I actually like Thomas a lot. But I agree he is going to need some work at LT. He was better last year for Georgia when on the right side. We will see how the rest of the year goes for him. I really like Calvin Throckmorton. But he might be a better fit inside in the NFL. But agree with most of what you say. I dont see a whole lot of top 20 OL players in this draft. The draft is REALLY deep at QB, WR and edge though. Which makes sense since Bruce's dumb ass filled all of those in last years draft.

 

Edit: Haha. I see Volsmet stole my Throckmorton thunder just a couple posts after yours. Like that player A LOT.

 

If we arent going to go QB at number 2 or 3, or wherever we end up, I wouldnt mind going CB in all honesty. We need one. And there are some really good ones in this draft as well. Bryce Hall is number one on my list so far. Followed by Adebo than Fulton. But still tons of time for all of them to make more plays this season.

 

Edited by clskinsfan
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With McLaurin and Holcomb up on that list (partially circumstance with Cole, but he’s really grabbed that spot), last draft is looking pretty good, regardless of how things go with Haskins.  
Harmon and Love could be substantial contributors going forward, Martin may well be a starter next year, and Moreland and Brailford have some potential for providing depth.  Sweat’s progress will be interesting to see - plenty of time for him really come on (as a pass rusher in particular) and a new DC could help this.  
 

Glad to see my guys Savage and Winovich up there :)

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Does it make sense to use decision making in the red zone as a tool to help project a qb’s ability to make that jump to game speed in the nfl (and maybe to a lesser extent other positions)?

 

Space is tighter, things are faster and my instinct is that how a guy handles that, how much complexity, how much spontaneity, they can manage in order to make a play seems like something that would predict success or failure at nfl game speed. Do they keep their head and execute or do they panic or tunnel vision onto their first read?

 

I'm not saying to only look at this or make it the prime determining factor, but I’m wondering if it makes sense to be a part of the mixture when it comes to evaluation?

 

 

Edited by Fresh8686
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It matters Fresh.  It's a glimpse at the player's instincts and field vision as you say.  Pre snap reading too.  You can really see a guy's playmaking ability shine when it's scoring time and he consistently comes through and demonstrates superiority.

 

But a lot of that also comes down to his weapons too.  If he's got Calvin Johnson to throw to you factor that in.

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