2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise Playing Devil’s advocate, Ron is saying we’re not going to trade down just to trade down, but...

Wills or Thomas (for example) are guys that could come in and play at a really high level for 10 years.  Of course, saying prospect D has to be as good as prospect A... not sure that’s realistic in terms of finding a prospect as good as Chase.  Now, is he talking tiers of players?  Or exact matching grades?  I don’t know.  
 

I’d add that the ‘I have an idea of what we’ll do at 2’ could possibly include more than one scenario.  He could feel like they would entertain a trade up offer from the Lions and Dolphins, but not the Jags (because he doesn’t know who would be available at that point)... even though the likelihood is that they don’t offer enough to be worth losing Young.  
 

I’m almost certain they don’t trade back, but I do have a slight tinge of doubt in that certainty because of our left tackle situation.  An even slighter doubt because of Simmons and Ron and Del Rio being ex-linebackers.  
 

 

Tangentially, if they did trade the pick, post-draft I wonder who they’d look to extend between Anderson and Kerrigan?  Or maybe they let them duke it out and see how things play out over the course of the season.  

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree if he said it in that way but he also added some editorial.  Why bother with adding statements like this if the plan is to trade down?  “If Player A is going to play for you for 10 years and Player D may not, then did you really get value or did you just get a whole bunch of picks?” “That’s what I believe we need — we need a guy that’s going to come in and really change our football team.”Rivera said.

I could see Simmons falling into that category as our pick at #5 or #6. The risk is him not being available having already been picked. 

5 hours ago, ClaytoAli said:

Fluff and bluff.

indeed. Don’t discount us taking Tua just yet then.

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

Tangentially, if they did trade the pick, post-draft I wonder who they’d look to extend between Anderson and Kerrigan?  Or maybe they let them duke it out and see how things play out over the course of the season

I find it odd that Kerrigan hasn’t had his contract sorted. Make you wonder. Also got Yan on the trade market too. Interesting option for us.

 

Also agree re LT options. And Rivera badly wants a second rounder IMO.

[Est.1974]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll give you this if they actually trade back, I'll give you kudos because just about everyone is reading the tea leaves the opposite. 😀   So it would mean you've read into something that just about everyone continues to miss.  That includes every beat guy who covers the team and most of the national guys, too.  They pretty much all relentlessly say don't expect to see a trade down.

Rivera referenced picking top 5. Then he said player A and player D.....clearly player A being at #2 and B#3 and C#4 and D#5...how about them tea leaves 

 

 

[redskinsrmylyfe]

7 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Rivera referenced picking top 5. Then he said player A and player D.....clearly player A being at #2 and B#3 and C#4 and D#5...how about them tea leaves 

 

 

I caught that player A and D comment! He said it flat out you gotta get a impact player. So the question is do you believe Simmons and Okudha are impact players? If so then we have to consider trading down knowing that you are guaranteed one of those two and if they're both gone then that means Chase young is still there and we hit the lotto!

[kingdaddy]

19 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I find it odd that Kerrigan hasn’t had his contract sorted. Make you wonder. Also got Yan on the trade market too. Interesting option for us.

 

Also agree re LT options. And Rivera badly wants a second rounder IMO.

This is why I don't rule out a trade out of #2.....it does seem as though RR wants another high pick in the first two rounds. He talked about there being "so many things to consider"......that makes me wonder if he is truly lock solid on staying put at 2.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I find it odd that Kerrigan hasn’t had his contract sorted. Make you wonder. Also got Yan on the trade market too. Interesting option for us.

 

Also agree re LT options. And Rivera badly wants a second rounder IMO.

On one hand, I understand because they probably want to see how things go - with the draft, if/how much age has affected Kerrigan, how the scheme change works for him, and how Anderson performs (as well as Sweat maybe).  They also have some leeway (and leverage) since Kerrigan has talked about doing what it takes to stay in DC.  
 

Ok, I just typed up an ‘on the other hand’, but then deleted it because 1) none of it precludes them re-signing him next year, and 2) they already said they wouldn’t entertain extending Dunbar because they don’t know him (and that should apply to everyone).  

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, skinny21 said:

On one hand, I understand because they probably want to see how things go - with the draft, if/how much age has affected Kerrigan, how the scheme change works for him, and how Anderson performs (as well as Sweat maybe).  They also have some leeway (and leverage) since Kerrigan has talked about doing what it takes to stay in DC.  
 

Ok, I just typed up an ‘on the other hand’, but then deleted it because 1) none of it precludes them re-signing him next year, and 2) they already said they wouldn’t entertain extending Dunbar because they don’t know him (and that should apply to everyone).  

talk was we were meeting Kerrigans agent at the combine. I mean, no way he sticks around on that money this year. I can’t see it anyway.

 

for me, too many threads still hanging loose at LB, CB, TE, WR, LT to make sticking at #2 for Young a given cert.

[Skinsinparadise]

I'll double down that IMO it leaves a lot to the imagination if the conclusion is Rivera is giving big hints they they are trading down. 😀

 

People at Redskins Park did leak to Keim apparently what their intentions are before FA.  Because what Keim said and what would happen pretty much went down to a tee.  But this time Keim was purposely fooled and he was leaked the opposite of their intention for the draft?  Ditto a ton of other reporters including national ones. 

 

A team can make a trade with the Redskins right now.  There is no reason to be coy about it. If there are trade offers you want to be loud about it if anything in order to solicit competition for the spot.  So Rivera and that team are waiting for draft day or whenever to make the trade just because?  Or conversely Rivera hasn't made a deal with said team but it so confident that he will that he is already counting on it as it going down?  And miraculously this trade offer on the table or even just mere interest and talks about it -- haven't been leaked?

 

Rivera has never traded down but this time he will?  Rivera not known for being cagy but instead being brutally honest but this time he's playing games?

 

Let's even run with they love Simmons.  How do they know he's going to be there at 5?  Rivera said there are just three high impact players.  How do we know those players aren't Young, Brown (who I doubt they'd take because of their depth at DT) and Simmons?  Or heck maybe he means one of the QBs?  My point is he flat out is saying there aren't a lot of fish in the sea early on that attracts him.

 

And why add the line that takes a shot at the notion of trading down with the "just get a whole bunch of picks" line,  If I am hinting to the Redskins fans to brace for a trade down, I am not taking a shot at the idea simultaneously by giving the downside to it with the "did you just get a whole bunch of picks line"  I am not giving fuel in my own point for why a trade down would be bad.   

 

I'd be purely boosting the notion and saying something like its a tough call, you can get potentially a great player and depending on a trade you can also a great player and add to the depth of the team.  I wouldn't spell out the downside of doing it if my intention is to actually do it. 

 

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/apr/7/ron-rivera-doesnt-sound-interested-trading-back/

 

"Rivera said there are just a “few” prospects in this year’s class that qualify as high-impact players."

 

The Redskins, of course, are in the prime position to take Chase Young, the Ohio State pass rusher and Maryland native largely considered to be a generational defensive line talent. Rivera didn’t name Young on his call, but his comments do nothing to dispel a rumor from Bleacher Report that the Redskins would need to have a “major change” in their thinking to not pick the 20-year-old.

 

"then did you really get value or did you just get a whole bunch of picks?” Rivera said."

[KDawg]

@Skinsinparadise

I think you nailed the three he refers to. 
 

And I agree. If he thinks there’s only 3 of them, then trading back is a dangerous proposition.

[Going Commando]

Been watching Isaiah Wilson the past two days.  Shocking athlete at his size.  Ghastly technical skill and football IQ.  Terrible feet and he has absolutely no art as a blocker.  It's either he beats you to the spot and buries you or you take his big ass for a ride to the ball.  He's a fascinating raw talent and I'm wondering what could have possessed him to come out this offseason.  If he goes back to school, gets better, moves over to the left side, and puts up a good individual season, then he's a potential top ten pick next year.

 

He is such an overwhelmingly good athlete that he's an intriguing upside pick at 66.  But even buying low like that, I have pretty strong concerns about him ever realizing his potential.  @volsmet has talked about how good the Georgia OL coach is, Wilson shouldn't be this bad at technique and recognition that should be pretty fundamental to his position and level of competition after two years of starting.  Especially for a five star blue chipper on an NFL track.  He looks like a High Schooler getting his ass kicked by college players in that Texas bowl game film.  I would be afraid of getting the next Ereck Flowers with him, and I would feel a lot better about picking such a massive project if we still had Callahan coaching the OL.  His floor is really low.

[Est.1974]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Rivera has never traded down but this time he will?  Rivera not known for being cagy but instead being brutally honest but this time he's playing games?

 

Let's even run with they love Simmons.  How do they know he's going to be there at 5?  Rivera said there are just three high impact players.  How do we know those players aren't Young, Brown (who I doubt they'd take because of their depth at DT) and Simmons?  Or heck maybe he means one of the QBs?  My point is he flat out is saying there aren't a lot of fish in the sea early on that attracts him.

I don’t think Rivera is being cagey, I think he’s being quite honest. Agree on there not being many fish, that’s why dropping past 5/6

isn’t an option. Sticking at #2 brings the smart money, maybe that’s why I’m not so sure 

 

Lots of moving parts at the top of this draft, should be an interesting couple of weeks.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

I don’t think Rivera is being cagey, I think he’s being quite honest. Agree on there not being many fish, that’s why dropping past 5/6

isn’t an option. Sticking at #2 brings the smart money, maybe that’s why I’m not so sure 

 

Lots of moving parts at the top of this draft, should be an interesting couple of weeks.

 

 

His most direct answer on this happened months ago when he said more or less he has a price for his #2 pick but doesn't expect any team to meet it.  The consistent smoke around the #2 pick from what I observed plays off of that point, they are very likely to stay at #2, if the Dolphins or whomever throws like the RG3 type of trade at them, they'd trade down.  But they don't expect an offer like that coming.

 

So my take has been, it really depends if the Dolphins are absolutely in love with Tua and are willing to throw crazy draft capital to get him.  By most indications that's not happening.  But if somehow that changes and the Dolphins are playing it coy then a trade down could happen.  The thing is for me is the Redskins have no reason to play it coy.  It's been brewing for weeks down here in South Florida that the Dolphins are smitten with Joe Burrow and they are willing to trade the moon for him.  that story has gone national.  Why would they be comfortable disclosing that but have some strong love for Tua and would trade the moon for him too but that is being kept under wraps just because?

 

Part of the reason why at least at this moment I see it as unlikely is I follow the sports news in South Florida almost as much as DC and for this all to be secretly going on -- then there are a lot of people being fooled.  And I'd add there is no reason to do it secretly.  The Redskins in particular would benefit from leaking the idea that the Dolphins have shown significant interest in a deal.  Because ideally you'd want to do what the Rams did in 2012 -- pit the Redskins and Browns against each other. 

 

For me to buy that a trade down is likely and that's what Rivera was trying to tell us this week, I'd also have to believe that they have an enticing trade already on the table.  You never know.  But if so, that should leak then any day.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Been watching Isaiah Wilson the past two days.  Shocking athlete at his size.  Ghastly technical skill and football IQ.  Terrible feet and he has absolutely no art as a blocker.  It's either he beats you to the spot and buries you or you take his big ass for a ride to the ball.  He's a fascinating raw talent and I'm wondering what could have possessed him to come out this offseason.  If he goes back to school, gets better, moves over to the left side, and puts up a good individual season, then he's a potential top ten pick next year.

 

He is such an overwhelmingly good athlete that he's an intriguing upside pick at 66.  But even buying low like that, I have pretty strong concerns about him ever realizing his potential.  @volsmet has talked about how good the Georgia OL coach is, Wilson shouldn't be this bad at technique and recognition that should be pretty fundamental to his position and level of competition after two years of starting.  Especially for a five star blue chipper on an NFL track.  He looks like a High Schooler getting his ass kicked by college players in that Texas bowl game film.  I would be afraid of getting the next Ereck Flowers with him, and I would feel a lot better about picking such a massive project if we still had Callahan coaching the OL.  His floor is really low.

 

Wilson IMO is more of a specimen than Flowers.   He has longer arms.  Bigger hands.  His timed speed more impressive considering he's a bigger guy than Flowers.  But more on point, Flowers was picked top ten.  If we are talking really about any OT in the early 3rd, there has to be some projection naturally.  A polished LT isn't dropping down that far.  So the risk-reward IMO is night and day from Flowers.   I get that's not your point about the comparison.  But my point is you are going to get some rawness especially at that spot in the third round.    I am not taking Wilson in the first round let alone top 10 albeit Jeremiah says some teams value him as a first rounder. 

 

From what I observed, he locks into his blocks well, mauls guys both in the run and passing game.   His hands are so strong that sometimes he just pushes guys and they fall back a few yards.  His footwork as I've mentioned and you do here too is his issue.  He needs to improve his footwork and doesn't have quick feet.  I think some speed rushers can give the dude issues.  There is a feistiness and meanness to how he plays that appeals to me.  If anything he can be overaggressive especially on the 2nd level and miss his target.  He definitely needs some work but a dude with that type of talent and almost perfect dimensions for LT -- I think is worth the risk.   There aren't too many tackles in this draft with 35" plus arms, Wilson is one of the rare ones who has it.   His speed is identical to Andrew Thomas and his 10 time is better than him.   

 

In short, I think you got plenty of clay to work with coupled with a player who plays with the right attitude IMO. 

 

Among the 2nd tier types I'd take Niang and Cleveland over Wilson both of whom are more polished.  But I'd easily take Wilson over the next tier of tackles: Peart, Bartch, Wanogho, etc

[volsmet]

Few things frustrate me more than the UGA offensive line.

[Riggo#44]

On 4/6/2020 at 5:28 PM, KDawg said:

 

I don't think it does. I don't think Haskins, Haskins' agent or the people who put together the draft party are privy to the Skins draft plans. Nor do I think the Skins brass is concerned about what kind of party the Skins public relations group is putting on.

 

I don't think we go Tua because I don't think he's going to be the pick there. I think it's Young or a drop back kind of scenario at this point. But, I've been wrong once before. 

 

God this would be Peak Bruce Allen, wouldn't it? Invite Haskins to a draft party and then draft his replacement? We're above that now....right? RIGHT?!

[Koolblue13]

5 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

God this would be Peak Bruce Allen, wouldn't it? Invite Haskins to a draft party and then draft his replacement? We're above that now....right? RIGHT?!

Last year that would have offered me absolutely zero relief inviting all of them, but it's totally different now with this FO/HC staff. They would never draft his replacement like that.

 

*we already traded for him. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He is such an overwhelmingly good athlete that he's an intriguing upside pick at 66.  But even buying low like that, I have pretty strong concerns about him ever realizing his potential. .

Isn't this a fairly similar profile to Geron Christian? I remember liking Christian before the draft (but didn't think we would go OT) ... his knock was he came out a year too early ... was a great athlete but very raw. Many said he would have been a 1st rounder the next year if he went back for one more year at Louisville.

 

I am intrigued by Wilson. If he or Niang is there at #66 I would be happy with either one. But Wilson strikes me as a guy that needs to improve for a year or two before beign relied upon to start. And we see how that went with Christian.

[volsmet]

 

 

[KDawg]

I actually like that one, vols.

 

I think Brown is one of the superstars in this draft class. Seeing him go 3 makes a lot of sense. Been watching more of the top end talent in the draft lately and I think Brown is the best player in this draft. I'd actually put him and Young as co #1s. Both are tremendous difference makers and I don't think you can go wrong picking either of them. I think they're the two home runs of the class, to be honest. 

 

I can see the Giants going Thomas, Wills, Wirfs or Simmons at 4. 

 

It makes sense for the Dolphins to go Herbert if they like him and have questions on Tua's health. 

 

Tua or Herbert, whoever is left, to the Chargers makes sense. I think Okudah is a sleeper there, though. 

 

I don't like Becton as the second tackle off the board personally speaking. But I could see it happening due to his raw ability, size and strength. 

 

I still think Jeudy falling behind Ruggs is a travesty of epic proportion. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

Few things frustrate me more than the UGA offensive line.

 

They should have been better than they were.  I think Georgia had some bad juju in their program going back to losing to Alabama in the SEC championship in 2018.  The talent level of that offense was outstanding this year, but they didn't play well and it can't be explained away by having injuries at receiver.  It's like they had a season long, demoralized hangover.

 

I was also disappointed in Wilson's development in particular.  I was shocked when he declared.  Going back over his cutups the past few days, that opinion is reinforced.  He's still got the same problems with oversetting and lunging in the LSU game that he had in the Texas game as a freshman.  Same recognition problems and same lack of feel for block positioning.  His hands and feet are still lousy.  His improvement this year was pretty marginal, and he's still not a legit good player yet.  If you can avoid getting physically mauled by him early in the rep, then you're going to be able to beat him a lot.  He is going to have a lot of trouble adjusting to NFL skill.

 

My fear with Wilson is that he's got a low football IQ and that he doesn't retain coaching well.  He's got huge upside but with this is a bad offseason for a guy like him to try and make the jump to the next level.  He's exactly the type that could fall through the cracks.

[Skinsinparadise]