2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

18 hours ago, volsmet said:

Watching that loaded app st defense, their best player (perhaps not best prospect) isn’t even draft eligible. Shaun Jolly may not have enough size to get into day 2 of the draft, but he’s going to be a fun follow for those of us in this thread next year.

 

Wow, can't wait to watch him.  App State has done a hell of a job recruiting.

 

19 hours ago, volsmet said:

Absolutely. I brought Gaither to this thread, I love the guy, but if I can only take one, I think Uche can be more disruptive with a bit more weight, length & experience v elite competition. I would be pleased with either, I fear the Dawg reporting my post to ES authorities.

 

 

I can understand your position to get at the QB more. Wondering if you feel this way with the 3rd rounder if Young is selected with the first selection?

I think I'd go Gaither as he seems better dropping into coverage.

[Skinsinparadise]

Now, he gives the kiss of death to one of my guys😕

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

I know we've talked about Cheyenne O'Grady. I wish he were't so crazy, but he could still be a late round or UDFA steal. His 40 isn't great and he doesn't look super quick on tape, or based on his combine numbers. His size is pretty great however and he's such a load to bring down. He's a relatively explosive jumper for his size, which indicates some explosion. 

 

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/cheyenne-o'grady?id=32194f47-5204-1528-4e96-c6588a4c43ad

 

[KDawg]

O’Grady is a strange social experiment.

 

With the tight end situation as it is in the draft, he’s bound to get drafted despite his issues, isn’t he? I think he’d be a top 5, if not higher, tight end if he didn’t have so many character issues. 
 

With this class the way it is he almost has to get a chance. 
 

I have no idea what to do with the guy. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

22 hours ago, KDawg said:

Is he Draft eligible? Very odd that this dude slipped through the cracks. 

 

I tweeted at the Stick to Football guys about him. I didn't get a response. But it appears as though his agent tweeted back at me asking what boards I was looking at, and not to pay attention to internet scouts lol.

Anyway, I would be interested to see if he gets drafted. The dude graded really well per PFF ... 4 year starter at a Big 5 school. And he has the measurables. I wonder if he's someone we have our eyes on.

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, KDawg said:

O’Grady is a strange social experiment.

 

With the tight end situation as it is in the draft, he’s bound to get drafted despite his issues, isn’t he? I think he’d be a top 5, if not higher, tight end if he didn’t have so many character issues. 
 

With this class the way it is he almost has to get a chance. 
 

I have no idea what to do with the guy. 

 

I liked what I saw when I watched him, he's a bawler. The "meh" combine and major character red flags, I'd think drops him to the 6th-7th?

 

 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

Wow, can't wait to watch him.  App State has done a hell of a job recruiting.

 

I can understand your position to get at the QB more. Wondering if you feel this way with the 3rd rounder if Young is selected with the first selection?

I think I'd go Gaither as he seems better dropping into coverage.

Gaither looks smooth in coverage, but I believe Uche has the ability to cover and play off the line, he better be able to play off the line. There’s more projection with him, I’m not drafting him in the top 100 strictly as an edge - I have both players in my top 60 overall right now.

 

Dreadful tweet from Nagy, implying Michigan’s great defensive staff is clueless, but it’s a tweet where he touches on what I’m talking about with Uche. 

 

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Listening to Cooley on the John Keim podcast .... Cooley said this team is pretty decent with few holes. He said they've done an incredible job building the team through the draft. He expects Kyle Smith and his team to nail the draft and come away with some legit starting talent outside of the #2 pick. TE, WR were a couple he mentioned.

 

Also, said it's clear they're building the run game and defense. Can focus on offensive weapons in the draft and beyond 2020.

 

Also said Kelvin Harmon blocks better than most TEs and should move to H-Back. That caught me off guard haha.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[volsmet]

14 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Listening to Cooley on the John Keim podcast .... Cooley said this team is pretty decent with few holes. He said they've done an incredible job building the team through the draft. He expects Kyle Smith and his team to nail the draft and come away with some legit starting talent outside of the #2 pick. TE, WR were a couple he mentioned.

 

Also, said it's clear they're building the run game and defense. Can focus on offensive weapons in the draft and beyond 2020.

 

Also said Kelvin Harmon blocks better than most TEs and should move to H-Back. That caught me off guard haha.

We are terrible. 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, volsmet said:

We are terrible. 

 

I think our OL as it stands now is average. I think our RBs have the potential to be elite. The defense speaks for itself. I think it can / should be Top 10.

 

I don't agree that we are terrible. In fact, I think the depth is the biggest issue. The wheels completely fell off on defense when the injuries hit last year. I expect the added depth to help a lot.

 

Also, let's not forget we've been the most injured team in the NFL for years. It's always been our achilles heel. I think a new training staff could change that over time.

 

Okay my optimistic rant is over.

Re; Draft Capital from Trent Williams ...

 

I really hope we deal him prior to the draft so we can secure the capital in advance. But I wonder if we end up trading Trent between Thursday and Friday of the draft. After the 1st round run on OTs, someone (particularly the Jets and Bucs) could end up missing out an OT. Instead of reach, or hope to get someone in R2, they might turn to Trent.

Especially the Jets. If there is a run on OTs and they opt to go WR at #11 ... they make a lot of sense to trade for Trent. Ship us their 3rd and 4th at a minimum. Maybe their 3+3

[volsmet]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I think our OL as it stands now is average. I think our RBs have the potential to be elite. The defense speaks for itself. I think it can / should be Top 10.

 

I don't agree that we are terrible. In fact, I think the depth is the biggest issue. The wheels completely fell off on defense when the injuries hit last year. I expect the added depth to help a lot.

 

Also, let's not forget we've been the most injured team in the NFL for years. It's always been our achilles heel. I think a new training staff could change that over time.

 

Okay my optimistic rant is over.

Our Oline right now is average, for the PAC-12. 
 

Our defense doesn’t have a safety or corner that could cover @skinny21

 

Our QB situation is as bad as any.

 

Our TE runs the 40 in 3 minutes. 
 

Our RB is 137 years old.

 

Our new coach is the only coach who got smoked by our former coaches.

 

I think we have plenty of depth, I think we’re missing the starters. 
 

*

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

O’Grady is a strange social experiment.

 

With the tight end situation as it is in the draft, he’s bound to get drafted despite his issues, isn’t he? I think he’d be a top 5, if not higher, tight end if he didn’t have so many character issues. 
 

With this class the way it is he almost has to get a chance. 
 

I have no idea what to do with the guy. 

 

I'm really not sure what I'd do regarding O'Grady either. Usually with that many red flags I'd not spend a draft pick on a guy...but his situation is a bit odd as, except for the DUI as a Freshman, the reasons for suspensions, etc weren't disclosed publicly. That being said, there were people who apparently said that some of it was for missing workouts and team meetings. That's a bit worrying, because I doubt that sort of thing would simply disappear once he gets to the NFL. It just feels like there's way too much smoke to not have at least a bit of a fire there. 

 

I guess it depends on if I'd talked with him and how that went. I definitely wouldn't spend more than a 7th on him. Prefer to try him out as a UDFA.

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I liked what I saw when I watched him, he's a bawler. 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if I want a guy who cries on my squad.

23 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Our Oline right now is average, for the PAC-12. 
 

Our defense doesn’t have a safety or corner that could cover @skinny21

 

Our QB situation is as bad as any.

 

Our TE runs the 40 in 3 minutes. 
 

Our RB is 137 years old.

 

Our new coach is the only coach who got smoked by our former coaches.

 

I think we have plenty of depth, I think we’re missing the starters. 
 

*

 

You forgot about not having a true MIKE backer, our best LB is an injury prone character issues guy who hasn't played in over 2 years. 

 

RBs have potential... but... Guice/Love are major question marks and I think McKissick is going to be a receiver based on his own presser. 

 

I agree with the rest. 

 

Though I think you may have been kind to the OL. (I'm semi kidding here. Martin is good but has a lot to prove, Roullier is adequate, Scherff is very good, Moses is adequate. Our LT is non existent. Average grade: adequate, but lacking

[JamesMadisonSkins]

19 minutes ago, volsmet said:

Our Oline right now is average, for the PAC-12. 
 

Our defense doesn’t have a safety or corner that could cover @skinny21

 

Our QB situation is as bad as any.

 

Our TE runs the 40 in 3 minutes. 
 

Our RB is 137 years old.

 

Our new coach is the only coach who got smoked by our former coaches.

 

I think we have plenty of depth, I think we’re missing the starters.

Our OL is average. Martin-Roullier-Scherff-Moses are a quality starting 4. Not great, but pretty good.

 

I agree long-term the secondary is an issue, but I actually really like the Darby-Moreau-Fuller-Moreland-Johnson-Stroman grouping. And I loved Sean Davis coming out. Dont think he's any worse and could be an upgrade to Montae Nicholson. Landon Collins is a legit SS if used properly. Borderline pro-bowler.

 

I have faith in Haskins. Excited to see what he can do.

 

TE I have faith will be addressed in the draft. I like Hentges and Thomas for upside. Okay with TE if we get one in the draft.

 

RB is 137 years old, yes. But his two immediate backups, if healthy, are elite talents (Guice and Love) and Barber/McKissic are quality depth.

 

New coach struggled when he lost his QB and hit a ton of injuries. Don't act like Rivera can't coach.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Our OL is average. Martin-Roullier-Scherff-Moses are a quality starting 4. Not great, but pretty good.

 

I agree long-term the secondary is an issue, but I actually really like the Darby-Moreau-Fuller-Moreland-Johnson-Stroman grouping. And I loved Sean Davis coming out. Dont think he's any worse and could be an upgrade to Montae Nicholson. Landon Collins is a legit SS if used properly. Borderline pro-bowler.

 

I have faith in Haskins. Excited to see what he can do.

 

TE I have faith will be addressed in the draft. I like Hentges and Thomas for upside. Okay with TE if we get one in the draft.

 

RB is 137 years old, yes. But his two immediate backups, if healthy, are elite talents (Guice and Love) and Barber/McKissic are quality depth.

 

New coach struggled when he lost his QB and hit a ton of injuries. Don't act like Rivera can't coach.

 

I kind of like the secondary. Potential to get burned bad, but they will make some plays that make us forget about getting beat from time to time.

 

Sean Davis is a horizontal upgrade. Different mindset, different character than Nicholson. 

 

Haskins is... We'll see. I have hope but not comfort.

 

I like Hentges.

 

McKissick will be primarily a receiver that can motion to the backfield, imo.

 

Agree on Rivera.

[Koolblue13]

This is more depressing than a homeless beagle today. Pull it together guys. 

[volsmet]

13 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Our OL is average. Martin-Roullier-Scherff-Moses are a quality starting 4. Not great, but pretty good.

 

I agree long-term the secondary is an issue, but I actually really like the Darby-Moreau-Fuller-Moreland-Johnson-Stroman grouping. And I loved Sean Davis coming out. Dont think he's any worse and could be an upgrade to Montae Nicholson. Landon Collins is a legit SS if used properly. Borderline pro-bowler.

 

I have faith in Haskins. Excited to see what he can do.

 

TE I have faith will be addressed in the draft. I like Hentges and Thomas for upside. Okay with TE if we get one in the draft.

 

RB is 137 years old, yes. But his two immediate backups, if healthy, are elite talents (Guice and Love) and Barber/McKissic are quality depth.

 

New coach struggled when he lost his QB and hit a ton of injuries. Don't act like Rivera can't coach.

I think Moses is awful, we don’t have the most important piece of the line, and Martin/Chase are replaceable. There aren’t 12-17 teams who envy what we’ve got on the line, which, imo, puts our line below average. 
 

That DB group makes me believe Trevor Lawrence is a real possibility.

 

Faith in Haskins I get, but again, nobody envies our QB room, maybe one team in the league would trade QB rooms with us.

TEs in the draft? That’s a lot of faith in a weak class without a 2nd round pick to utilize.

 

Faith in the health of Love & Guice ... faith is too common a theme in your post for me, faith is for fans, it’s not objective. I understand optimism, I need it to get by, I’m a Vols, Redskins, Orioles, & Wizards fan.... delusion is my safe place. 
 

Our new coach struggled with what? Didn’t you just post that we’ve been crushed by injuries? He got mauled by the 2nd worst team in the league, he was playing against far more dysfunction than he was dealing with. I think Rivera is fine, but we only smoked one team... and it was his. 
 

Objectively, we stink. Well, objectivity, in this case, is subjective, I suppose 🤔

 

[KDawg]

I think you’re pretty close to reality there, vols. I think saying Moses is awful is a bit further than I’d go. He’s a penalty waiting to happen, but I think he’s at worst adequate. 
 

There’s not a single position on our line that can’t be improved, except... maybe... RG.

 

Secondary depends on how they utilize Fuller and which version of Darby shows up. If it’s the Eagles version we’ll be picking early. If it’s halfway between Buffalo and Philly version we’ll be decent in the secondary. It’s going to be a boom or bust secondary, though, in my opinion. We’ll have absolute toast moments and I think they will make some big plays as well.

 

Again, my fear is LB. If Foster plays and looks like he did before the injuries/other stuff? I feel more comfortable. But I don’t think that should be expected. Holcomb could be a great MIKE for us, but early in the process they said he’d play outside. I don’t agree with them there and I think that’s a mistake. And if AP is 137, Davis is 150 years old. He’ll be adequate to good on the field and excellent off. But that doesn’t ignite a spark in my heart. 
 

FS is in a similar position as last year but due to character it’s a horizontal upgrade, but not a talent upgrade. That HAS to be better. I think the plan is Fuller there in base, Davis in Nickel/Dime. 
 

Offensively my biggest concerns are in the most important positions: OL and QB.

 

Our talent level is decent across the board. But it doesn’t spike to much higher or lower than that baseline in too many places. 
 

That is a recipe for a team somewhere in the 4-12 to 7-9 range (5-12 to 8-9 if they play 17 this year, I’m not sure when that goes into effect). 
 

If Haskins steps up large and we fill LT better? Could flip to a winning record.

 

But this is just my evaluation prior to the draft and remainder of free agency. Things can change quick with a few key additions, imo.

[Going Commando]

Doubt our OL will be worse than it was last year.  And we still have a decent shot at getting a good OT prospect at 66 and/or a really good interior prospect in that range or around 100.  Add that to Lucas and Schweitzer and the unit should actually be better than it was last season as Lucas and Schweitzer are better than Penn and Flowers.  We also might get improvement from Martin and Pierschbacher.

 

Our TE group is garbage, but that's not a backbreaker.  Our WR group will be better, and they're not terrible.  All of the key guys will be entering their second season and we will probably get a good prospect in the draft.  Add someone like Tyler Johnson to this group and they'd be promising.

 

Our RBs have the potential to be vastly better this season.  It's about staying healthy, but the group has huge untapped upside.  More than any other part of the team.

 

The DL is already impressive, they're going to be awesome if we get Chase Young.

 

The linebackers should be better.  Thomas Davis was a legitimately good signing and Pierre-Louis could be a gem.

 

The secondary is trash. They'll probably be worse than they were last year unless Moreland breaks out and Landon Collins returns to his old form.  But our issues could be mitigated if we get a stud in the draft like Jaylon Johnson or Amik Robertson.  Also interested in some long term projects that should be available in the late rounds.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1.2: Chase Young, DE Ohio State

3.2: Adam Trautman, TE Dayton

3.4: Saahdiq Charles, OT LSU

4.2: Bryan Edwards, WR South Carolina

4.36: Amirk Roberterson, CB Louisiana Tech

5.4: JR Reed, S Georgia

7.2: Blake Brandel, OT Oregon State

7.16: Joe Reed, WR UVA

 

If we simply traded Trent to the Jets for a 3rd and 5th and came away with these picks, I think a lot of us would feel infinitely better about our long-term situation at some of these positions. Going into 2021 with a roster stacked with young talent and $100+ million in cap space will be a good spot.

 

I'm really looking at 2020 as a developmental year. See how Haskins does. Hope the defense is a Top 10 or higher defense. Hope the offense starts to click. Get to 6-8 wins.

 

Then there's the chance that the defense dominates, ends up being a Top 3 defense ala the 49ers in 2019 .... and if the defense is that dominant your offense will be better by default from turnovers, time of possession, etc. Real chance this is a 9-11 win team if the defense ends up being Top 3 and the offense takes at least minimal strides into the Top 20 overall.

 

People forget that the 49ers went from 2-14 to 13-3 or whatever it ended up being ... in one year. A ton of parallels between the two teams. The two big missing pieces IMO are a dominant TE and OL. We have an average to below average OL and even with a high-drafted rookie, likely just have average TE performances. Those two elements make me think our ceiling with even a dominant defense is 10-11 wins. Floor is obviuosly 2-4 wins if our defense is merely in the 10-15 range and our offense faulters under either Haskins or Allen.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, volsmet said:

I think Moses is awful, we don’t have the most important piece of the line

Agreed. 
 

Free agency has been a let down too. I think we’re trading back for picks.

[Skinsinparadise]

From the Athletic, 2 scouts doing their mocks for the Redskins

[JamesMadisonSkins]

My thoughts on the draft by position group ... and where I think the coaching staff/FO might be with the FA additions made:

Defense:

- DL: Good to go. Draft Chase at #2

- LB: Good to go here in 2020. See how Foster comes back, and what SDH and Holcomb can do. Wait on position unless real playmaker falls

CB: Good to go here in 2020 in assessment mode. See how Darby and Moreland, Johnson, Moreau and Stroman play. Grab a CB if one falls and is too good to pass up.

FS: Good to go here in 2020. Not in win-now mode. See what Sean Davis can provide. Young, upside. If he sucks, go heavy here next off-season. Try a late-round flyer to compete with Apke for backup.

 

Offense:

- QB: Good to go

- RB: Good to go

- WR: Go heavy here. Build on 2019 draft momentum and try to bring in 1, if not 2 WRs to round out a truly impactful, cheap and young WR core.

- TE: Go heavy here. Draft someone who can play in 2020 but who you can build the offense around in 2021 and beyond.

- OT: Go OT especially if it's BPA at any of the first 3-4 picks. Need to have a high-upside/raw/talented player to try and build at LT, and worst case, slide in at RT in 2021 and beyond

- IOL: Set here for the most part, but if you trade down and have extra picks, could certainly hit an upgrade or depth piece here at either C or OG.

 

You have 4 picks in the first 4 rounds. If you can trade Trent and add 2 more picks in the 3rd-4th round range, you have 6 picks.

 

Ideally you emerge with a: DE, WR, TE, OT

If you can get 6 picks in that range, then: DE, WR, TE, OT, CB, S/LB ... then double-dip at WR in the 5th or 7th.

 

[skinny21]

Just the fact we likely have a shortened offseason (or worse, but I’m not getting into that) is going to make it so much tougher for a team like ours with an entirely new coaching staff.  Not to mention having a lot of key young guys that need development and for whom a transition to a new scheme will already be more difficult than for most vets.  
 

As for the roster, looking at it with a skeptics eye, we have 1 good player in the back 7 of the D and 2 good players on offense.  Maybe 3 if you want to include Peterson.  
 

Now, we should have a very good dline, and a good dline can hide a multitude of sins in the back 7.  If our back 7 can be decent, we could have a pretty capable defense.  The back 7 does offer some youthful potential in Fuller, Moreland, Darby, Moreau and Holcomb.  A healthy Foster would be a big help.  
 

@KDawg I’m in complete agreement that Holcomb seems like a better fit at MIKE.  Really surprised me that they already feel like he’s better off on the outside.  Guess we’ll see.  
 

 

 

5 hours ago, volsmet said:

Our Oline right now is average, for the PAC-12. 

Yeah I have big concerns there.  Drafting a guy in the first two rounds, or adding a Peters type would make me feel a bit better... but not by much.  I’m fantasizing about trading back, landing Wills/Thomas, then Ruiz or Josh Jones, then hitting IOL in the 3rd... we could have a dominant oline in short order.  

Quote

Our defense doesn’t have a safety or corner that could cover @skinny21

Nope, but that’s ok... the guys that can are unicorns.  

Quote

Our QB situation is as bad as any.

 

Our TE runs the 40 in 3 minutes. 
 

Our RB is 137 years old.

 

Our new coach is the only coach who got smoked by our former coaches.

 

I think we have plenty of depth, I think we’re missing the starters. 
 

*

Pretty much.  We have some potential, and better potential than most years (“maybe this 7th rd dude is a gem!”) which is nice.  But we’ve hung our hats so often on ‘potential’ that I’m in full-on wait and see mode.  Of course we finally have some competent coaching, so that’s nice.   

 

 

Anyway, back on topic, I’m interested in Jared Hilbers (I know you brought him up).  He moves pretty well and filled in adequately for Adams.  Seems a better development guy than Christian, which is crazy because of the difference in assets it would take to get him.  

Noticed Rotoworld had Stepaniak (a 7th rounder I took in our mock) with a .50 score while other positions were in the teens and single digits by that point - including receivers.  Sort of backs up the idea of the depth of this IOL class.  Stepaniak threw up 37 on the bench BTW - holy ****.  He plays like it in the ground game too, throwing suckers around.