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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley was touting Charlie Woerner (TE) saying he worked with him in some camp or something like that and he thinks he will be good.  I never heard of Woerner until that podcast with Cooley.  I found one game of him.  I show a clip of him blocking for the RB, in general he was a good blocker for Swift.  He's #89. 

 

Fromm didn't throw to him much.  I only found one game.  He got open a bunch of times but rarely got the ball.  He's a big dude, 6 '5, 250 pounds and he looks pretty fast for his size.  Interesting IMO late round prospect.  He can definitely block.  

I don't know about this prospect but I am all for us taking 2 TEs in the draft.  We know that the TEs are crucial in the type of scheme Turner runs. 

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9 hours ago, skinny21 said:

It’s interesting to me that Tua has just entered the discussion.  What made people suddenly (from my perspective anyway) think that he should be strongly considered with the #2?

 

Personally, I’m intrigued by the idea of drafting Tua and holding onto Haskins.  Could backfire, or it could be genius (or anything in between).  

 

The things that really sway me away from that route though - Haskins could be a very good qb, Tua has a significant medical history, Chase Young is a phenomenal prospect, and we’re already (way?) behind the 8 ball as a team.  
 

Tua needs to be a part of the larger discussion, absolutely, but with Young on the board and Haskins in the fold... it goes no further than discussion.  
 

If Tua goes on to massive success and Haskins is moved on from in a year or two, yep... we’ll kick ourselves.  If we take Tua and he’s injured, and Young is as good of a player as most envision... we’ll be kicking ourselves.  

 

Heck, if we’re really that concerned about Haskins (and missing on Tua), maybe we should try to get a future 1st in a trade down in order to trade up for Lawrence.  I mean, if Haskins stinks and we don’t add Young, we’ll probably have a high pick next year, right? 😊


*I’ve been fighting for the Tua at 2 movement for months. 
 

If Young hits his ceiling? We will have some pressure on the opposing QB from time to time. If Tua hits his, we are contenders for a decade. 

Edited by volsmet
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20 minutes ago, volsmet said:


*I’ve been fighting for the Tua at 2 movement for months. 
 

If Young hits his ceiling? We will have some pressure on the opposing QB from time to time. If Tua hits his, we are contenders for a decade. 


a whole load of merit in that. I’m sure Rivera and his staff are debating the same.

 

its often easy to miss the obvious right under your own nose, but if we are expecting Miami to trade 3x first rounders plus change in order to draft Tua, perhaps that tells you the value of the commodity we are passing over. 

some way to go in this one yet.

 

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Tua has suffered multiple injuries with the last being one that could have ended his career in the NFL before it even began.  I don't care if he's been giving a clean bill of health by the NFL or not.  IMO, the Skins shouldn't even consider selecting this guy.  Yes, the intangibles are there w/o a doubt but the injuries along with the last one which was very serious has to be considered also.  I say a strong NO to selecting Tua a #2.  If the Skins are bluffing showing interest to drive up the price for the #2 OK but that's all it should be.  You take the best player available in the draft and trade down with Detroit if they are hot for Tua or the kid from Oregon, move back slot and take Young at #3 and get an extra pick too. 

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As much I like Haskins and think he could be great, not good, but great, I wouldn’t be doing the Skins service by not acknowledging you Have To strongly consider Tua. If he ends up being that guy, and Haskins doesn’t, we’ll look back and say what coulda been. That’s why these guys (decision makers) get the big bucks.
 

For what it is worth I think Haskins can ascend to top 7-12 QBs in the league, and maybe more with a good cast around him.  I think Roethlisberger/Moon with him. I think Tua can be Brees 2.0. 
 

In the end I’d say roll with Haskins, I think he can get it done., but fully understand if another choice is made. 

Edited by COWBOY-KILLA-
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Tua is gonna have his own 30 for 30 called “what may have been” after another bad injury forces him to retire prematurely.

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On 2/22/2020 at 4:39 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me, I don't need a FA at WR.  This draft is insanely stacked at WR so if they want some competition for Harmon, I am cool with it.  Harmon was one of the WR prospects I liked last year.  However, doing apples to apples comparisons to some of the 2nd tier type WRs I like in this draft, I'd take a bunch of them over Harmon.   I didn't see Harmon as a #1 last year, don't recall too many others pegging him that way either.  But I do think he can be a good 2 or 3 type receiver.   I don't think he will flame out.  He's already shown flashes.  But if they in the building like him as a rotational guy, I can see that.  Plus these days IMO you want 4 good receivers ideally -- there almost always seem to be a receiver on the shelf much like the CB position, one guy at least almost is always hurt. 

My guess is the problem they have with Harmon is the same problem the NFL at large appears to have w/Tyler Johnson, low ceiling based on limited athleticism. To me it short sells both of them. There have been plenty of Keyshawn Johnson types over the years. Harmon's a chain mover. Nothing wrong with that, Tyler seems like a more athletic version of that template. Was listening to a podcast yesterday where they were saying a year ago Tyler went back because he got really inexplicable god awful reports on where he'd be selected, but it sounds like there is similar sentiment now. WHY?!?! I'm totally flummoxed by that. Instead of focusing on what he can't do or might struggle to do, why not focus on what he can do and accentuate it? He's got talent and can be a very productive NFL player, but it doesn't sound like the NFL likes his game. Just strikes me as bizarre. 

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20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just listened to the Kiper-McShay podcast and they were both making your point.   McShay in particular harped on the idea if you think the dude is the next Drew Brees like how he sees Tua, you take Tua and you don't hesitate.   Neither Kiper or McShay are high on Haskins and that's baked into their point.   McShay in particular is really high on Tua and low on Haskins.  Kiper had more hesitation about Tua's injuries both said he'd be a significant upgrade at the QB spot and when you have that opportunity you take it. 

A thousand times yes. It makes zero sense to stand pat with a QB that wasn't 1/5 the prospect Tua was/is, especially if Tua's injury concerns were dramatically overstated as it seemed to some of us who dug deeper into it. 

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16 hours ago, skinny21 said:

It’s interesting to me that Tua has just entered the discussion.  What made people suddenly (from my perspective anyway) think that he should be strongly considered with the #2?

 

Personally, I’m intrigued by the idea of drafting Tua and holding onto Haskins.  Could backfire, or it could be genius (or anything in between).  

 

The things that really sway me away from that route though - Haskins could be a very good qb, Tua has a significant medical history, Chase Young is a phenomenal prospect, and we’re already (way?) behind the 8 ball as a team.  
 

Tua needs to be a part of the larger discussion, absolutely, but with Young on the board and Haskins in the fold... it goes no further than discussion.  
 

If Tua goes on to massive success and Haskins is moved on from in a year or two, yep... we’ll kick ourselves.  If we take Tua and he’s injured, and Young is as good of a player as most envision... we’ll be kicking ourselves.  

 

Heck, if we’re really that concerned about Haskins (and missing on Tua), maybe we should try to get a future 1st in a trade down in order to trade up for Lawrence.  I mean, if Haskins stinks and we don’t add Young, we’ll probably have a high pick next year, right? 😊

He didn't just enter the discussion. The problem has been that most posters were not considering him because of erroneous reports about the injury and/or waiting for news about how things were going post surgery. Now news is filtering out that everything post surgery is positive. For people like me, who had Tua ahead of Burrows if he's medically cleared, Tua HAS ALWAYS been above Young. I didn't regret the trade up for RGIII and I would not regret the selection of Tua. It's a QB's league. Literally EVERYTHING is tilted towards QB, and even forty years ago, Super Bowls typically housed pro bowl or all pro QB matchups to such a degree that the rare exceptions stood out quite starkly. Now the league is 10x more tilted to QB's then back then so of course I'd prefer Tua and of course I wouldn't regret it. I view people that wouldn't as either people who either don't understand football or prefer to watch what they like (3 yards and the cloud of dust) over actual good teams (in the fullness of time). 

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5 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Tua is gonna have his own 30 for 30 called “what may have been” after another bad injury forces him to retire prematurely.

So then we get the 1.01 and draft Trevor Lawrence. I said this back when we paid through the nose for RGIII. If he busted, we'd likely have convinced ourselves he was a bust after 2-4 seasons at which point we would likely bottom out in a position to draft another potential franchise QB. The positive of drafting them is that if you're wrong, you will suck, and get another chance. If we're wrong about Haskins, and draft Chase Young instead, we'll have built a D good enough to land us in perpetual draft purgatory in that 8-15 zone where it is far harder to reboot at the position. W/regards to RGIII we got lucky w/Cousins, so us rebooting with the '15-'17 rookie drafts wasn't in play (though it should've been in '17 once it became clear we were running Cousins out of town). 

 

 

 

Edited by The Consigliere
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@volsmet I don’t count you bro - you’re always ahead of the curve and have a pleasantly outlandish take on qbs (in terms of how the League operates). :)


@The Consigliere  That’s fair enough - just haven’t see people saying, “well, depending on Tua’s medicals”....

 

@Skinsinparadise Chinn and Woerner were two of the earliest sleepers I looked at.  Woerner was a stud FS and a decathlete in HS, along with playing receiver (and some running back I believe?).  Talk about interesting... Glad you brought him up, because he’d fallen off my radar.  
 

Chinn I really got a vibe similar to Savage.  Mostly I mean that in terms of a guy I felt would climb in a big way through the draft process due in large part to their size, speed and versatility.  I loved Savage, I more like Chinn a lot.  

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http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001102633/article/threeround-2020-nfl-mock-draft-20-eagles-hit-dbs-in-round-3

 

Chad Reuter posted a 3 round mock above, and it falls in line with what I've been thinking is going to happen. He has us taking Saahdiq Charles in the 3rd. That is totally a Redskins move. Reaching for a need and positional value. More interesting to me is that I think the CB value in Rd 3 looks elite. He has Jeff Gladney, Cam Dantzler, and Troy Pride Jr all coming off the board after we pick in the 3rd. 

 

I know we are shallow at CB and FS, but I'm starting to think that we shouldn't be planning on giving a 28 year old, always injured Dunbar, a long term contract. I'd be happy to give him a pay raise and guarantee this year for injury. Or a two year deal. But, it seems like bad business to give a CB that is on the back end of his elite years a long term contract when he's already had so much trouble staying healthy. Given that reality, I'm warming to the idea of trading him for Stefon Diggs, or even a 3rd round pick. For instance, if we moved Dunbar for a 3rd, give me Cam Dantzler or Jeff Gladney AND Troy Pride in the 3rd, sign a FS and Bradberry, and let the young guys develop. I don't think Dunbar is young/healthy enough to be a key cog here when we would be likely to compete for runs deep into the playoffs. 

 

Regardless of what happens with Dunbar, unless a stud unexpectedly falls to the 3rd, I'd love to grab Cam Dantzler, or Jeff Gladney there, and we might be able to move back a bit, pick up another 4th, and still get Troy Pride Jr. 

 

Also, here is to hoping that Bryan Edwards isn't able to put down a timed 40 prior to the draft. I'd love it if we picked him up as a bargain pick. 

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Dunbar for a 3rd would be amazing value. More likely he is a 4th or 5th and may have to wait until TC and hope for injuries to maximize his value

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1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

So then we get the 1.01 and draft Trevor Lawrence.

 

 

 

 

So you're an advocate of spending a 1st rounder on a QB in every draft until you're absolutely certain you've got an amazing QB?

 

If it's not that, then that's what it sounds like, so I'm confused.  Maybe you mean that if you're bad enough to be picking in the Top 5, you should always take a QB?

 

 

I don't think spending a 1st on Haskins, then a 1st on Tua, then a 1st on Lawrence or another 2021 QB makes much sense.  Sample size is too small to be sure Haskins can't continue to develop, or that Tua is always injury prone, etc.

 

We've had several drafts recently where good to elite QB's were selected outside of the Top 10.  So building a quality team first hasn't hurt teams like the Chiefs, Texans, or Ravens get their QB's in the draft.

 

Big Ben was taken outside of the Top 10, and he took awhile to develop.  He has had more success and had better peak years than the guys taken #1 and #3 in that same draft.

 

Aaron Rodgers underwhelmed for 3 years as a backup until he kept improving his mechanics.  He's quoted as saying if he was forced to start as a rookie he'd have busted.  He had too many bad habits and technical deficiencies.

 

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Looking at the available top 3 QBs in the upcoming draft, I'd really be depressed if QB was a need for us.  Burrow was at best a mid-rounder if this year had been about on par with last year. Reminds me a lot of RG3 (a late 1 at best if his 2011 season was on par with 2010). There was no 'Bomb for Burrow' campaign among fans of certain teams like 'Suck for Luck' or even a 'Tank for Tua'. Tua has an injury history and even though he may get 'a clean bill of health' that is more about the severity of his injuries. QBs seem to be more subject to going from great to mediocre due to small injuries than many other postions. Herbert is a guy with mouth-watering looks but seems a bit lacking in the intangibles department. Further, Wilson was a 3rd round pick.  Since he has been in town, the Seahawks have only missed the playoffs once and not had a losing season. They missed winning the division by one yard and have played on two SBs! They are rebuilding around Wilson. Everyone knows about Brady.  Brees was a FA that had only two suitors. Ben Roethlisberger was picked outside the top 10.

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Does anyone else here look at Lynn Bowden Jr or Laviska Shenault and think about how Scott Turner could scheme around a Mcaffrey-lite?

 


 

Also, all of this talk about Bryce Love perhaps never making a recovery makes me want to grab Anthony McFarland in the later rounds. 

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

Does anyone else here look at Lynn Bowden Jr or Laviska Shenault and think about how Scott Turner could scheme around a Mcaffrey-lite?

 


 

Also, all of this talk about Bryce Love perhaps never making a recovery makes me want to grab Anthony McFarland in the later rounds. 

 

 

 

 

They’re nowhere close to being McCaffrey lite. He’s a top 3 back in football and would be somewhere in that vicinity as a a lot receiver if he played there full time. Nobody can duplicate the effect he has on defenses. 

Edited by Berggy9598

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Eh, I think there will be more free agency moves than in the past. Partly due to the current cap space available, but also seems logical in the first year to invest in players you want as leaders and tone-setters. 

There are so many good options at FS in this free agency that the safety position need not be worried about. 

They'll get the corner in free agency and have to overpay (James Bradberry), but probably one grabbed in the fourth round too. Puts Moreau behind Dunbar, and I think Moreland has a future in the slot.

 

Don't think it is as dire as others make it out to be. 

Ready for some intelligent football. 

Edited by Silvernon
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21 minutes ago, Silvernon said:

 

Ready for some intelligent football. 

 

Man, you said a mouthfull right here.... ME TOO, I'm ready for some adults who know what the hell they're doing to take control of this franchise that I've loved for over 40 years.... here's hoping that it happens and that Riverboat Ron leads the way...

Edited by ColonialWBSkinsFan
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13 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Tua is gonna have his own 30 for 30 called “what may have been” after another bad injury forces him to retire prematurely.


Khalil Mack had 8.5 sacks. 

8 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

So then we get the 1.01 and draft Trevor Lawrence. I said this back when we paid through the nose for RGIII. If he busted, we'd likely have convinced ourselves he was a bust after 2-4 seasons at which point we would likely bottom out in a position to draft another potential franchise QB. The positive of drafting them is that if you're wrong, you will suck, and get another chance. If we're wrong about Haskins, and draft Chase Young instead, we'll have built a D good enough to land us in perpetual draft purgatory in that 8-15 zone where it is far harder to reboot at the position. W/regards to RGIII we got lucky w/Cousins, so us rebooting with the '15-'17 rookie drafts wasn't in play (though it should've been in '17 once it became clear we were running Cousins out of town). 

 

 

 


 

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7 hours ago, method man said:

Dunbar for a 3rd would be amazing value. More likely he is a 4th or 5th and may have to wait until TC and hope for injuries to maximize his value


 

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6 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

So you're an advocate of spending a 1st rounder on a QB in every draft until you're absolutely certain you've got an amazing QB?

 

If it's not that, then that's what it sounds like, so I'm confused.  Maybe you mean that if you're bad enough to be picking in the Top 5, you should always take a QB?

 

 

 


Depends on the grade you give the qb. 

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3 hours ago, Berggy9598 said:

They’re nowhere close to being McCaffrey lite. He’s a top 3 back in football and would be somewhere in that vicinity as a a lot receiver if he played there full time. Nobody can duplicate the effect he has on defenses. 

McFarland.....you heard it here.

 

Mark it and quote me.🤨

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While talking Terps, Antoine Brooks gets no love, but I do love me some Antoine Brooks.

 

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