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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


zCommander

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2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Just caught this, that stinks, he is one of my favorite WR prospects. 

 

Yea, I feel bad for him. Who knows where he falls to now. Maybe the 5th or 6th, or the 4th? He has some really great traits but a lot of people were wondering how he’d time. He had a lot to gain with a good combine. 

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1 minute ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

Yea, I feel bad for him. Who knows where he falls to now. Maybe the 5th or 6th, or the 4th? He has some really great traits but a lot of people were wondering how he’d time. He had a lot to gain with a good combine. 

 

Don't know if Kyle or Bruce has been driving the let's take injured guys at a "bargain"  -- see Moreau and Love.  If its Kyle and I suspect it might have been -- it wouldn't shock me if the injury actually ups the possibility we take Edwards because I am guessing he could now fall to the 5th, etc. 

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@Skinsinparadise

 

Yup, I feel the same way. History has shown that they aren’t afraid to go BPA in the later rounds if they are getting at least +2 round positional value. Love whose arguably 1st/2nd round value in the 4th and Harmon who by the way Kyle talked about him was considered value by at least the 4th and got in the 6th. If I’m remembering Moreau right, that was a potential 1st round grade picked up in the 3rd? So that would work with that theory too. 

 

I wonder if there is something to the above that goes into whether they pick for need or BPA in those rounds?

 

Ibinoghene was one of my favorite corners to watch because of how often he’d play press man coverage. The Auburn defense in general was fun to watch.  

 

 

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I couldn't find the Igbinoghene performance against Alabama but watched two other games.  He's IMO impressive.  He's physical, long arms, fast, can press well, mirrors well.   He's a converted WR.  Like Darrell Green he can return kicks.    I thinks its a long shot he's there in the third though. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, LD0506 said:

I swear to doG I don't know how y'all find the time to gather all the info posted here, I struggle to even read all of it.

 

Every year I watch conversations like this, trying to read tea leaves to divine who is gonna shine and who isn't, and it seems like it is very common for most to try and look at players in a vacuum, without the team around them, their level of competition, schemes, etc. 

 

I look at Tua, seems like a helluva good kid, plays hard, but I've seen a lot of plays where his WR corp made great plays that he gets the credit for. Not damning with faint praise, he IS good, but what would he be here, with this coaching staff at this point in a total transformation of the franchise? I always look for context.

 

I am way more confident that Ron + JDR = far better defensive play, using players to their strengths, I don't have the same level of confidence in whatever new offensive scheme we will field this year. Skip Chase, add Tua and whatever the hell you now do with Haskins, unsure O line situation, questions @ RB, and I'm not sure exactly how much of a boost you get in Rivera's honeymoon season as opposed to add Chase, focus resources on upgrades around Haskins to improve the offense and concentrate on building a low turmoil high discipline roster.

 

There's always a big picture.

 

There's also always someone willing to trade the family cow for magic beans.


I just don’t see why anyone cares about Haskins. Kerrigan has been a nice player & nobody is worried about what we do with him. The relationship people have with QB draft picks is almost entirely emotional, imo. 
 

The Browns, Chargers, Jags, Titans, Jets, & Bengals all passed on Watson & Mahomes because they had guys. Pure stupidity.

 

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We need to acquire some more picks in the 3-6 range. I want to double up on WR and feel like we need more capital to ensure we still get an OT, CB, TE and LB. 

 

That shouldn’t be too hard to do. If we could get a 4th for Dunbar and trade back from 66 and try to get a 3+4 in return you pick a little later in R3 but then have 3/4/4/4/4/5.

 

in that scenario I think you go CB, then WR, WR, LB, OT, TE in any order 

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47 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

We need to acquire some more picks in the 3-6 range. I want to double up on WR and feel like we need more capital to ensure we still get an OT, CB, TE and LB. 

 

That shouldn’t be too hard to do. If we could get a 4th for Dunbar and trade back from 66 and try to get a 3+4 in return you pick a little later in R3 but then have 3/4/4/4/4/5.

 

in that scenario I think you go CB, then WR, WR, LB, OT, TE in any order 


Trading Dunbar for a 4th would be ridiculous, imo.

 

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3 hours ago, volsmet said:


I just don’t see why anyone cares about Haskins. Kerrigan has been a nice player & nobody is worried about what we do with him. The relationship people have with QB draft picks is almost entirely emotional, imo. 
 

The Browns, Chargers, Jags, Titans, Jets, & Bengals all passed on Watson & Mahomes because they had guys. Pure stupidity.

 

 

I just listened to the Kiper-McShay podcast and they were both making your point.   McShay in particular harped on the idea if you think the dude is the next Drew Brees like how he sees Tua, you take Tua and you don't hesitate.   Neither Kiper or McShay are high on Haskins and that's baked into their point.   McShay in particular is really high on Tua and low on Haskins.  Kiper had more hesitation about Tua's injuries both said he'd be a significant upgrade at the QB spot and when you have that opportunity you take it. 

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3 hours ago, volsmet said:


I just don’t see why anyone cares about Haskins. Kerrigan has been a nice player & nobody is worried about what we do with him. The relationship people have with QB draft picks is almost entirely emotional, imo. 
 

The Browns, Chargers, Jags, Titans, Jets, & Bengals all passed on Watson & Mahomes because they had guys. Pure stupidity.

 


I mean, in a slightly different way than you have, but I have said several times, this draft is massive for us. It might be right at the start of the Rivera era, but my God it is pivot to his tenure. If we pass on a QB and Haskins flames out, game over. **** me, it’s massive. Got to get this call right.

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I cannot comprehend people outright dismissing Tua if his medicals check and he performs well. 
 

I literally cannot wrap my head around it.

 

Yes, we all love Chase Young. 
 

But In a scenario, purely hypothetical, that we don’t have a QB... Do people favor Tua or Young?

 

Now, lets say you say Tua, but you think we should draft Young in real life. That tells me that you think Haskins is a player.

 

Okay.

 

Thats fine. He may be. But what gives you that thought? Other than you hope he is. 
 

We all have different thoughts, and I respect the hell out of all of you, especially in this thread.

 

I just don’t understand outright dismissing Tua. Taking Young anyways? Okay. But dismissing Tua? 

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53 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I cannot comprehend people outright dismissing Tua if his medicals check and he performs well. 
 

I literally cannot wrap my head around it.

 

Yes, we all love Chase Young. 
 

But In a scenario, purely hypothetical, that we don’t have a QB... Do people favor Tua or Young?

 

Now, lets say you say Tua, but you think we should draft Young in real life. That tells me that you think Haskins is a player.

 

Okay.

 

Thats fine. He may be. But what gives you that thought? Other than you hope he is. 
 

We all have different thoughts, and I respect the hell out of all of you, especially in this thread.

 

I just don’t understand outright dismissing Tua. Taking Young anyways? Okay. But dismissing Tua? 

 

In 2018, I went to two Alabama games live mainly because I wanted to see Tua play in person.  You'd have a tougher time finding a bigger fan of him than me.  Conversely, you'd have a tougher time finding a bigger Chase fan than me.  But if Tua is really 100% healthy and my team doctors said no worries on that front -- I'd take Tua over Young and it wouldn't even be a hard choice for me.  QB > DE.  Simple as that.    I doubt we do it though.

 

It's tough sometimes to have nuance conversations about Haskins on the Haskins thread.  I've praised Haskins.  I've also criticized him.  I am not one of his louder critics on that thread -- you got a group of people who are already out on him.  I am not one of those people.  With Haskins, I really don't know.   It actually reminds me ironically about my position on Kirk for years until he became a starter in 2015 and then I landed hard on a position, I waffled on him a lot.  There were things I liked and things I didn't and my views vacillated.

 

In camp, I saw ups and downs from Haskins -- more downs than ups.  He looked wretched in relief and mediocre as a starter but he really came alive in those last two games.  So are those 2 games (granted against wretched pass defenses) the portent of what's to come?  If so I am in.  But I admit I cringe each time I keep hearing about their concerns about his maturity and work ethic.    With Haskins I got ZERO doubt that there are questions about his intangibles on those fronts by some in that building. 

 

I've heard a variation of that narrative from everyone who covers the team.  It comes off in some of the coaches statements, Doug, too.  And no I don't think its based on some odd conspiracy or it was all Jay's fault as some suggest.  Keim isn't making things up among others.   A Ohio State reporter, doubled down that Haskins wasn't the biggest playbook studier in college and even got made fun about it in the QB room there and he witnessed it. 

 

 A private QB coach who worked with him admitted that Haskins wasn't always in shape when he worked with him and that would come and go.  There were rumblings about Haskins on that front after the combine.   I ignored it because he talked such a good game about how he wanted to be the next Brady and win a SB so he talked the talk.   But circling back to me being unsure about him is some say (including the Ohio State reporter) that he's the type that is motivated once he's put on the spot under the bright lights.   So I do think it's possible that he ends up the guy. 

 

I actually like his athletic arrogance on the field and he seems really competitive in the heat of the battle.  But I just don't see QB as a position like RB where Clinton Portis might not be a strong off the field-practice preparer but he brings it on during game day.  I think QB (or so many say like Arians, Gibbs, Shanny, etc) is a position that demands heavy preparation and study.  And I am not ruling out Haskins turns into that guy and maybe he's already became that.  But I don't think it's a wild coincidence that both Scott Turner and Doug's comments about Haskins heavily referenced the value of him needing to be the first guy in the building and the last guy to leave.  So clearly there is a wait and see feeling about it at Redskins Park.

 

From what I've read about Tua, this stuff wouldn't even be a thought.  His intangibles are through the roof.  

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-examining-tua-tagovailoas-top-end-potential

What Tagovailoa lacks in size and arm strength compared to Oregon's Justin Herbert (6-6, 233), he makes up for with intangibles, precision and competitive drive. Herbert and Georgia's Jake Fromm are the others in the mix to be the first quarterback selected in next year's draft.

“Really good instincts, super accurate, really good field vision," one NFC exec said of Tagovailoa to SI...."It’s not just how he throws the ball and his movement skills. It’s his maturity, it’s his focus, it’s his football IQ, it’s his leadership. It’s everything," Dilfer said last year. "He’s the complete package. And you’re just seeing the tip of the iceberg. He can do things with a football that I’ve only seen a couple other people be able to do.

 

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/tua-tagovailoa-faith-family-football/

There have been times, his father says, when Tua has gone back to the practice facility after a game to get in more reps. “Later on at about 10 at night, we come home. And he’s getting ready to go train again. He goes to that facility and does training. I mean, after a football game! And I’m thinking ‘wow,’” Galu says. Like most other virtues in his life, Tua’s commitment to discipline and hard work stems largely from his faith, and he strives for excellence and perfection over stardom. The long hours, the unceasing reps, the hours of studying film and asking the hard questions —

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I dont care about Tua and only want young. I also dont care much about offense as long as they dont screw up. I enjoyed Alex Smith as the QB, so you have an idea. Lol. I like 3 yards and a cloud of dust over that fancy forward pass. 

 

But I love me some nasty defense. That's the best watching a defense just take over and roll downhill and make an offense play scared.

 

I'm like a reverse Spurrier.  :ols:

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21 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I dont care about Tua and only want young. I also dont care much about offense as long as they dont screw up. I enjoyed Alex Smith as the QB, so you have an idea. Lol. I like 3 yards and a cloud of dust over that fancy forward pass. 

 

But I love me some nasty defense. That's the best watching a defense just take over and roll downhill and make an offense play scared.

 

I'm like a reverse Spurrier.  :ols:

 

I don't think you got to worry.  Dan according to Keim was telling people the previous college season that Haskins is the best player in college and he really loves him.  And they've been strong hints that Dan wanted a new coach with a specific plan for Haskins.  

 

I want a SB one day and don't think you can do it without a very good to great QB.   Ironically from what I read its part of the reason why KC discarded Alex eventually among other reasons.  I am not ruling out Haskins becomes a very good QB.  Like I said, I am somewhat 50-50 on his chances.  

 

I love Chase Young and have touted him on this thread since earlier in the college season.  So no complaints from me about taking him.  I'd be more than jazzed.  But I definitely understand the Tua sentiment here by some. 

 

For anyone who wants to listen to Kiper-McShay go almost an hour on the NFC East, here's the podcast.  They spent more time on the Redskins than the other 3 teams.  I far from always agree with them but I'll give that they are an entertaining listen.  A lot of Tua, Chase Young among other things discussed.  Even some inside info about Dan.

 

http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=28744723

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People keep saying IF Tua is healthy he's an amazing prospect.  And yeah, who wouldn't agree.  But I think equating what happens from his medical results that come out soon, with a statement of Tua is now healthy and risk free doesn't make sense.

 

He's got a track record of being injury prone.  Including the last one where people were initially worried it was a career ender.

 

Are we expecting him to suddenly no longer have his injury issues in the pro's?

 

Drafting Tua is exciting, but there's a fair amount of injury risk that has to be considered regardless of his upcoming test.

 

-----------------

For people talking about Haskins in regards to Tua.  Let's pretend Tua gets healthier and stays healthy.  The equation would be:

 

Tua + random player we draft from trading Haskins (2nd rounder?)

...vs...

Haskins + Chase Young.

 

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It’s interesting to me that Tua has just entered the discussion.  What made people suddenly (from my perspective anyway) think that he should be strongly considered with the #2?

 

Personally, I’m intrigued by the idea of drafting Tua and holding onto Haskins.  Could backfire, or it could be genius (or anything in between).  

 

The things that really sway me away from that route though - Haskins could be a very good qb, Tua has a significant medical history, Chase Young is a phenomenal prospect, and we’re already (way?) behind the 8 ball as a team.  
 

Tua needs to be a part of the larger discussion, absolutely, but with Young on the board and Haskins in the fold... it goes no further than discussion.  
 

If Tua goes on to massive success and Haskins is moved on from in a year or two, yep... we’ll kick ourselves.  If we take Tua and he’s injured, and Young is as good of a player as most envision... we’ll be kicking ourselves.  

 

Heck, if we’re really that concerned about Haskins (and missing on Tua), maybe we should try to get a future 1st in a trade down in order to trade up for Lawrence.  I mean, if Haskins stinks and we don’t add Young, we’ll probably have a high pick next year, right? 😊

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Drafting Tua and keeping Haskins would be such a Redskins thing to do. Even Arizona didn’t try and pull that BS. 
 

It’s about economics. It’s not whether anyone here would rather have Tua or Haskins. I think most would take a healthy Tua. The question is would you rather have Tua or Haskins + Chase. 
 

I’ve seen plenty of cutups of Haskins. He’s gonna be legit. I will stand by my thoughts that if he truly commits to the playbook and the team builds up the offense (OL and TE) that he could break out big time next year. I’m not gonna get my hopes up

and expect a Mahomes like breakout, but I think he could cement himself as a legitimate 30 TD 4500 yard QB pretty quickly. He had few weapons and a bad OL and he adjusted and played well with that cast at the end. 
 

so Haskins with big promise + Elite Chase OR Haskins + a ton of picks ... is much more desirable than Tua and whatever pick we can get for Haskins

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1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

It’s interesting to me that Tua has just entered the discussion.  What made people suddenly (from my perspective anyway) think that he should be strongly considered with the #2?

 

Personally, I’m intrigued by the idea of drafting Tua and holding onto Haskins.  Could backfire, or it could be genius (or anything in between).  

 

 

That's what Kiper-McShay talked about referencing the Aikman-Walsh dynamic from the 90s with both betting on Tua emerging as the guy in that case.

 

Personally, I think there is no shot it happens.  But I don't mind the conversation, it has some logic to it.  

 

52 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I will stand by my thoughts that if he truly commits to the playbook 

 

This point is the wild card at least according to just about everyone who covers the team.  Will see.  I got my fingers crossed.   I suspect he will come through.  Like I mentioned before on the Haskins thread, I've met the dude, seen him interact with my kids multiple times, good dude.  I am rooting hard for him.  If he doesn't end up the answer we are in trouble obviously. 

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Cooley was touting Charlie Woerner (TE) saying he worked with him in some camp or something like that and he thinks he will be good.  I never heard of Woerner until that podcast with Cooley.  I found one game of him.  I show a clip of him blocking for the RB, in general he was a good blocker for Swift.  He's #89. 

 

Fromm didn't throw to him much.  I only found one game.  He got open a bunch of times but rarely got the ball.  He's a big dude, 6 '5, 250 pounds and he looks pretty fast for his size.  Interesting IMO late round prospect.  He can definitely block.  

 

 

Recruited as a WR, highly touted coming out of HS.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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