2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@Skinsinparadise funny. Every time I go WR in the 7th, it's Victor. Hit or miss though if he's there. Sometimes he's gone in the 6th. Honestly, you won't find me arguing with this team drafting any WRs from Ohio State. Not just the Haskins connection, but the endless supply of studs that have come out of there. Michael Thomas and Terry among them.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

Also, one guy that is NOT being hyped up lately is KJ Hill. If we go a different route in R3 and with the first pick in R4, he's a guy I consistently see being there in the 4th and 5th rounds. He's got that Ohio State connection, really showed up at the Senior Bowl

I did, he’s is my original mock. Hill in the 4th for me.

[mistertim]

3 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Only way I do that trade is if Stafford is off the Lions.  I need some sort of clear show that they're taking a QB at #2 besides their word.

 

Yeah, I mean...I know that it would be super bad form and damage long term relations with other teams but I wouldn't trust anyone there and I'd only do that trade if the Lions 1) Had already traded Stafford and/or 2) Literally put in writing that if they took Chase Young at #2 they would forfeit their next 2 whole drafts to us. 

 

EDGE is a WAY bigger need for them than QB. They were absolutely awful at generating pressure on QBs last year and I think they'd salivate at the chance of getting a potentially generational pass rusher like Chase Young. 

 

Either way, I'd only see them moving on from Stafford if they suddenly found out that his injury was much more severe than the doctors thought and he may have to miss a good amount more time, or even may be suggest to never play again. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Such a crazy interesting player. Needs to be taken by a team really willing to experiment with play design and usage of players, not a square peg/round hole situation. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

32 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Such a crazy interesting player. Needs to be taken by a team really willing to experiment with play design and usage of players, not a square peg/round hole situation. 

 

 

 

RB-WR-QB.  Wild.  I am surprised he doesn't get more buzz.   

[Riggo'sRangers]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

Such a crazy interesting player. Needs to be taken by a team really willing to experiment with play design and usage of players, not a square peg/round hole situation. 

 

 

Really intriguing player. Will watch to see where he goes in the draft. Would like to have him here, if possible. Hail

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

@Skinsinparadise funny. Every time I go WR in the 7th, it's Victor. Hit or miss though if he's there. Sometimes he's gone in the 6th. Honestly, you won't find me arguing with this team drafting any WRs from Ohio State. Not just the Haskins connection, but the endless supply of studs that have come out of there. Michael Thomas and Terry among them.

 

Uh, that's it.  You've just named them.  The recent endless supply of studs stops at 2. 

 

2019 - 3rd round, Terry McLaurin (1 season over 900 yards)

2017 - 2nd round, Michael Thomas (4 seasons)

 

 

You'd have to go back to the 2009 draft, Brian Hartline in the 4th round, to find the next OSU WR with more than 900 receiving yards in a season.  The perception of OSU producing WR talent is a new thing.  You'd have to go back to the 1990's for OSU to be thought of that way.

 

The OSU WR to be drafted higher than Terry last year, Parris Campbell, only had 127 receiving yards as a rookie.  And it's not like he had any competition.  TY Hilton kept getting hurt and only played in 44% of their snaps.

[Fresh8686]

I’m kind of eh about KJ Hill and feel like there’ll be better WR’s available from the 3rd through the 5th when we pick most likely. I don’t hate the guy, I just wish he had better acceleration and play strength to deal with NFL corners. I can usually find other guys with a higher base or plus trait while being equal to KJ in other areas. Plus, he’d be more of a slot guy anyways and we’ve got Sims for that. 

 

In a lot of mocks I usually find best value with RB’s and S in the 7th round. AJ Dillon and McFarland are almost always there for whatever reason or Julian Blackmon. 

 

 

 

Man, I'm watching Devin Duvernay as a possible 4th/5th round option and as I watch him run over Grant Delpit a couple times I can't help but feel that Grant belongs more in the 2nd round than the 1st.

[Going Commando]

51 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

Man, I'm watching Devin Duvernay as a possible 4th/5th round option and as I watch him run over Grant Delpit a couple times I can't help but feel that Grant belongs more in the 2nd round than the 1st.

 

Me too.  I've really been pleased with what I saw from him and I'm pretty sure I like him over Collin Johnson and I do like Johnson.  We kind of knew what we were getting from Johnson and Ingram going into the year.  Duvernay was a revelation for outsiders to the Texas program this season.  Him and Cosmi really stole the show in that LSU game.  He was ultra-productive on the season.

 

TBH, Duvernay's season is what I was hoping and expecting to see from Laviska Shenault.  If we're looking for a Jarvis Landry type of receiver, Duvernay feels like at least as good an option as Shenault, particularly when he's being projected to go 4th/5th instead of the first or second like Shenault.  But thinking back to Jarvis Landry, he was a second round pick himself.  It shouldn't be shocking if Duvernay ends up going way before his projection on draft day.  I think third round is feasible, and the second round isn't out of reach either.

[KillBill26]

3 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

Such a crazy interesting player. Needs to be taken by a team really willing to experiment with play design and usage of players, not a square peg/round hole situation. 

 

 

Look at how effective taysom hill was for the saints this last season.  He provided a nice wrinkle for that offense.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Bowden shoot up draft boards by April.  Imagine him on the chiefs or ravens.  Wow.

[Fresh8686]

@stevemcqueen1

 

Yup, I feel you, and I like him better than CJ too. That 4th/5th round projection is purely because of the crazy amount of WR’s available for me. He’s got plus leg strength, track star pedigree, and a willingness to fight for the ball that gives him a good shot of sticking out a bit from the pack. 

[volsmet]

On 7/10/2019 at 1:06 PM, volsmet said:

This, again, is the most impressive WR class in nfl history by a significant margin.

 

I still laugh about the experts who knocked this OL class, it’s infinitely better than last years, it’s absolutely loaded. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Thaddeus Moss.  Could only find two games.   Not what I expected considering his dad.   He's a good blocker but not much of an athlete. 

 

He looks somewhat slow out of his breaks.  He doesn't strike me as the type who will separate well in the NFL.  He did alright separating in the games I watched but he has a lumbering way about how he moves.  I read that he had a plate inserted in his foot (sounds painful) and it looks it as to his movement.  I think what helped him in LSU is they had so many weapons that it took the focus off of him, he could get open at times with delayed routes where it looked like he was staying back to block and then seconds later he took off.  He chipped quite a bit on targeted defenders before running a route -- he's good at that.   

 

He is a physical player but not from the context of YAC.     He's not a YAC guy from what I saw.   He ran mostly short routes -- quick outs, quick ins, seams -- slants, digs, etc.

 

6th rounder?  Really good hands -- good (not great blocker) blocker but not an explosive-YAC-separator type.  He's fun to watch as a blocker at times, locks into his assignment and takes that part of his role seriously.   I am a broken record on wanting to see some 40 times on players.  I'd add him to the pile.  Watching him he looks like a 4.85 guy but maybe I am misreading that. 

 

 

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Me too.  I've really been pleased with what I saw from him and I'm pretty sure I like him over Collin Johnson and I do like Johnson.  We kind of knew what we were getting from Johnson and Ingram going into the year.  Duvernay was a revelation for outsiders to the Texas program this season.  Him and Cosmi really stole the show in that LSU game.  He was ultra-productive on the season.

 

 

Made similar comments weeks back, I was impressed with Duvernay and I'd take him over Collin.  Though Duvernay strikes me as a pure slot guy and from what I am reading the powers that be seem sold on Sims. 

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Uh, that's it.  You've just named them.  The recent endless supply of studs stops at 2. 

 

2019 - 3rd round, Terry McLaurin (1 season over 900 yards)

2017 - 2nd round, Michael Thomas (4 seasons)

 

 

You'd have to go back to the 2009 draft, Brian Hartline in the 4th round, to find the next OSU WR with more than 900 receiving yards in a season.  The perception of OSU producing WR talent is a new thing.  You'd have to go back to the 1990's for OSU to be thought of that way.

 

The OSU WR to be drafted higher than Terry last year, Parris Campbell, only had 127 receiving yards as a rookie.  And it's not like he had any competition.  TY Hilton kept getting hurt and only played in 44% of their snaps.

Ahem

 

[skinny21]

8 hours ago, KDawg said:

if Akeem is there in the third, I will fly to Vegas, steal the card and run it to the podium for the team. 

 

The 4th? I'll carry Snyder solo in a King's chair to the podium for it. 

I’ll fully support your trip... though not financially of course.  
 

I’d be happy if I were a team adding him mid-late 2nd.  As I said previously, if he were a bit bigger (2 inches taller and 10-15lbs heavier), he’d be an easy 1st rounder.  Lack of ideal size and his LOC pushes him down a round though (right or wrong).  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Matt Miller was saying that the reason he thinks Simmons could bust (he had to pick one of his top 5 most likely to bust) ... is because he struggles to shed blocks. And if a team doesn’t protect him and use him properly he will struggle. His athleticism makes his upside massive but he needs to play in a scheme and behind a line that keeps him fairly unengaged with blockers. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

58 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller was saying that the reason he thinks Simmons could bust (he had to pick one of his top 5 most likely to bust) ... is because he struggles to shed blocks. And if a team doesn’t protect him and use him properly he will struggle. His athleticism makes his upside massive but he needs to play in a scheme and behind a line that keeps him fairly unengaged with blockers. 

 

Yeah, true.  But a quality team can figure that out.  I thought the same about Ryan Shazier, but the Steelers figured out how to help Shazier roam free.

 

Ray Lewis is another example.  Great linebacker that turned into a HoFer from the Ravens being determined to scheme him free of blockers.

 

It can be done, but you need an organization who wants to build a defense around a guy.

 

 

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller was saying that the reason he thinks Simmons could bust (he had to pick one of his top 5 most likely to bust) ... is because he struggles to shed blocks. And if a team doesn’t protect him and use him properly he will struggle. His athleticism makes his upside massive but he needs to play in a scheme and behind a line that keeps him fairly unengaged with blockers. 

That’s an embarrassing analysis, imo. 

[volsmet]

Don’t report me to the moderators when I laugh, lovingly, at each of you over the next several years.

 

Tua

 

 

 

 

 

[RWJ]

8 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

Man, I'm watching Devin Duvernay as a possible 4th/5th round option and as I watch him run over Grant Delpit a couple times I can't help but feel that Grant belongs more in the 2nd round than the 1st.

I like this player a lot.  If we could get him in the late 4th or early 5th I'd be happy.  

[skinzplay]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

RB-WR-QB.  Wild.  I am surprised he doesn't get more buzz.   

 

Watch that dude end up with the 49ers. Kyle will have a field day conjuring up stuff for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, skinzplay said:

 

Watch that dude end up with the 49ers. Kyle will have a field day conjuring up stuff for him.

 

I'd take Bowden especially if he falls to the 4th.  Talk about a weapon in the red zone-wild cat, sweeps, tick plays on and on.   Any creative offensive mind would have a blast with someone like that.

 

Switching subjects, as for the TE point below from Standig.  I get the sentiment that this is a bad draft for TE.  I said it myself before diving into watching these guys.  And I still feel that way from the context of there are no top flight A listers like last year.   These are B level players IMO but there are a lot of B level players IMO who fit very well the 3rd-5th round range who IMO are potentially better than who we have in house right now.   

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, volsmet said:

Don’t report me to the moderators when I laugh, lovingly, at each of you over the next several years.

 

Tua

 

 

 

 

 

Man...

 

I'm with you. Have been. I think Tua is the best quarterback, and personality, of the quarterbacks in the group. I am just not sold on Burrow and his sense of entitlement. When I saw him smoking a cigar post national championship, in his uniform, with a "Big Dick Joe" hat, I lost a lot of umph for him as a prospect. 

 

If Tua were healthy, I strongly believe he'd be the clear cut #1. And if he gets a clean bill of health and the prognosis is good for his injury and ability to play post rehab, I don't see any reason that should change.

 

I'm a fan of Chase Young. I like him. But I'd have hesitation at 2 taking him over Tua. 

9 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Matt Miller was saying that the reason he thinks Simmons could bust (he had to pick one of his top 5 most likely to bust) ... is because he struggles to shed blocks. And if a team doesn’t protect him and use him properly he will struggle. His athleticism makes his upside massive but he needs to play in a scheme and behind a line that keeps him fairly unengaged with blockers. 

 

Uh. Has Matt Miller watched Simmons play football? It sounds to me like he hasn't. 

 

RE: Saying he could bust: What a hot take. Anyone could bust. Including Young. Likelihood is low. But anyone can bust. So saying, "he could bust" just gives him an out later if Simmons is successful by saying, "I never said he WOULD bust. Just that he could".

 

I struggle with a lot of the buzz words these guys use. Generational, "could bust", "could be a hall of famer", we get it. It's a crap shoot and everyone is guessing. No one wants to be overly negative on any prospect as, in the end, these are young dudes getting their entry level position. But a lot of this stuff is kinda cringey. 

[cakmoney61]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Man...

 

I'm with you. Have been. I think Tua is the best quarterback, and personality, of the quarterbacks in the group. I am just not sold on Burrow and his sense of entitlement. When I saw him smoking a cigar post national championship, in his uniform, with a "Big Dick Joe" hat, I lost a lot of umph for him as a prospect. 

 

If Tua were healthy, I strongly believe he'd be the clear cut #1. And if he gets a clean bill of health and the prognosis is good for his injury and ability to play post rehab, I don't see any reason that should change.

 

I'm a fan of Chase Young. I like him. But I'd have hesitation at 2 taking him over Tua. 

 

If the Redskins hadn't drafted Haskins last year, I'd be right there with you.  But they did.  So you have to hope he works out and get this consensus all-world, best player in the draft edge rusher.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, cakmoney61 said:

 

If the Redskins hadn't drafted Haskins last year, I'd be right there with you.  But they did.  So you have to hope he works out and get this consensus all-world, best player in the draft edge rusher.

 

You do not, under any circumstances, have to hope Haskins works out. 

 

Just because you used a resource doesn't mean you have to ride with it if you don't believe that the product you received was worth the asset it took to get it.

 

I don't believe this is any way to run a football team.

 

Where the hesitation should come in is if you think Haskins can actually be the guy (or more, you think he's going to be a better NFL QB than Tua). If you do, you have to see what happens. If you don't, a quarterback should be on the table. 

 

The next step is: Does Tua help this team more than Chase Young?

 

The answer to that is much, much more complicated. And I can see why someone would arrive at the answer that Young would help more. I'm not sold (I'm also not sold that Tua would be a bigger help. There's a LOT that has to go into that decision).

 

I just hope the Redskins are doing their homework (I trust they are) more than our fan base is (I'd REALLY hope they are). People are so sold on Young as the guy but there are other options that should be on the table.

 

Ultimately, I think we wind up with Young. And that's a good thing. But dismissing other options is a mistake for any fan who delves deep into this stuff.