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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise I haven’t really watched Davis (in part because I figure he goes in Rd 2 and so is out of our range), but I really like that personality.  
 

Funny, but just a couple days ago I was thinking that two guys that would fit what we need at RB are Edwards-Helaire and Akers.  ‘Funny’ in part because I was thinking about how Akers is out of FSU like Thompson and CEH was Guice’s replacement.  

 


Speaking of Akers, how old is Landon Dickerson, I feel like he committed to FSU in 1986. What a beast stud he was.

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48 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Speaking of Akers, how old is Landon Dickerson, I feel like he committed to FSU in 1986. What a beast stud he was.

The OL that transferred to Alabama?  21, and staying at AL this year apparently.  

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@stevemcqueen1 You think Love can serve as a weapon out of the backfield?  I know he didn’t put up much tape as a pass catcher, but I think he can be effective like Guice.  Not sure he has the sharpness to excel as a route runner, but he sure has the speed and vision.  

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I get @stevemcqueen1's point about us already having a Bryce Love and Chris Thompson.  And we don't need another dude like that.  I agree with that point.

 

But this is one of the rare times I disagree with him albeit in a minor way.  I do agree that there are elements of Helaire that makes him come off like a third down type of back, mainly his hands and him being smallish size wise (more height though then weight).

 

But I depart some after that aspect of it.  Chris Thompson is smaller than 200 pounds.  Helaire is 210.  He's short but he's well built for his size.  I was mentioning the other day that Hamler plays to his size in a bad way.  Helaire to me plays bigger than his size.  He's fun to watch -- his physicality.  He caught my eye in the Alabama game where he was at times a one man gang both running the ball and catching the ball.

 

I love Bryce Love because of his explosiveness and he's a better insider runner than some give him credit for.  And don't get me wrong I'd take Love over Helaire because of his special explosiveness.  Love is a 50 yard run waiting to happen.  He hasn't proven to be much of a pass catcher but we hope he develops on that front.   I just dived into four Helaire games and he brings to me a different dynamic.  I see him more as a smaller Derrius Guice than a poor man's Love.    Helaire is a more physical player than Love.  He has a more grinding style and has better hands.  

 

I purposely put clips below showcasing his physicality for the most part as opposed to his explosiveness.  But he's both. He's physical and explosive.   And the dude can really really catch the ball.  He's special on that front.  He runs routes a lot for a RB.  They line him up some as a receiver on the outside.  He's often a hot read for Burrow if he needs to throw a quick screen.  Out routes, in routes, etc. 

 

 

I think this dude is going to be a really good NFL player IMO. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2870876-lsus-clyde-edwards-helaire-is-the-the-heart-and-soul-of-lsus-offense

Nothing about his game, with the exception of his height, is understated. His speed. His power. His wiggle. His bowling ball-like running style. His ability to catch the football, perhaps his most meaningful attribute. His ability to contribute on any down at any point on the field.

"I feel like I'm the miniature Swiss Army knife," Edwards-Helaire says. "Whatever you need me to do, I'm there—no matter the situation, in life or in football."

Statically, the running back has been excellent. Edwards-Helaire averaged 6.6 yards per carry this season. He's totaled 1,304 rushing yards, third in the SEC. He's scored 17 touchdowns. He also caught 50 passes for 399 yards. 

"Clyde's special," says LSU offensive coordinator Steve Ensminger. "Defenses have tried to put linebackers on him, and they can't cover him. Others have brought a free safety down, and he can't cover him. He's a weapon that they have to pay attention to. He's a difference-maker."

His most impactful performance came against the program that has largely tormented LSU over the past decade. While Alabama has routinely neutralized opposing running backs since Nick Saban's 2007 arrival, Edwards-Helaire is a glaring outlier. 

His 180 yards from scrimmage and four touchdowns were at the epicenter of the team's 46-41 victory in Tuscaloosa in the fall. Edwards-Helaire also became the first player to score four touchdowns from scrimmage against Saban's team during the coach's time at Alabama.

That performance, while magnified given the stakes, largely mirrors the impact he has had all season.

 

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Vasha Hunt/Associated Press

"He's a monster," says Clemson safety Tanner Muse. "He's a total package for a running back."

For years, however, not everyone thought his wealth of abilities would translate to this level. Although it was clear Edwards-Helaire was gifted when he starred at Catholic High School in Baton Rouge, a short trip up the road from the university he committed to, there was always a ceiling on his potential. 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@stevemcqueen1 You think Love can serve as a weapon out of the backfield?  I know he didn’t put up much tape as a pass catcher, but I think he can be effective like Guice.  Not sure he has the sharpness to excel as a route runner, but he sure has the speed and vision.  

 

Yeah I think so.  He's an elite playmaker and he can take simple stuff out of the backfield for chunk gains because of his very explosive acceleration after his up-field cut.  But I also like him in the slot for 4 verts and screens/hitches.  If you put him and Steven Sims or Terry McLaurin in the slot, those safeties are going to have to make tough choices and they'll probably have to check to quarters.

 

Guice is a pretty big weapon out of the backfield too.  His pass personnel utility has been a welcome surprise.

 

I think my favorite back for us in this class is AJ Dillon.  I want someone to bludgeon defenses with.  I want to be able to go spread and get a whole bunch of DBs on the field and run Dillon into them.  I love the smashmouth identity the 49ers created, and I think that's the way to win while developing Haskins at the same time.

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

We really have to hope there isn't a run on QB's so Philly doesn't end up with one of the top 3 WRs.  

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https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/tuls--takes--2020-nfl-draft-twitter-qanda

 

 

Quote

My take: Tyler Johnson, WR, Minnesota

Terry McLaurin and Diontae Johnson both had incredibly promising rookie seasons after being selected in the third round of the 2019 draft, so if I'm following that blueprint, the answer to this question is to find a third-round wide receiver in this year's class that can have that same kind of immediate impact. To me, the clear answer is Tyler Johnson. He is one of the best pure route runners who provides inside-out flexibility and strong run-after-the-catch value. Johnson’s play strength and top-end speed will likely push him to the middle of the draft. But to answer the question of finding a receiver who can start right away and produce without having a high price tag: it's Johnson.

 

 

Quote

My take: Amik Robertson, CB, Louisiana Tech

It's a shame that many people still don’t know about cornerback Amik Robertson. With 14 interceptions, 34 pass breakups and three touchdowns in three years, Robertson might be the most feared playmaker in this year's defensive back class, pound for pound. While he is undersized at 5-foot-9, 185 pounds, he plays like the biggest defender on the field with his toughness. Robertson is an ideal nickel at the next level with that tone-setting physicality and quickness to mirror two-way-go routes. He isn't getting a lot of hype right now, but don't be surprised if some team pulls the trigger on the second day of the draft.

 

 

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I think Tyler Johnson has a chance at going in the second round.  He's the second best route runner among the WRs I've seen, and we always say route-running translates.  He offers really nice value at 66 IMO, but I'm holding out hope that Tee Higgins falls like DK Metcalf did last season.  That's the dream scenario.  We could trade up from 66 to get him if that happens again.

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Barring something like a stud dropping to 66, I've actually been liking a trade down scenario at 66 because I like a lot of the guys who are currently being ranked ~90-150 on many big boards.  A lot of the wide receivers, guards, running backs, and safeties I like best are being put in that range.

 

On TDN's current board, I like:

WR - Tyler Johnson (105) & Isaiah Hodgins (101)

RB - Anthony McFarland (113) & AJ Dillon (162)

IOL - Damien Lewis (100), Biadasz (103), Stenberg (120), Shane Lemieux (125), Solomon Kindley (129)

DB - K'Von Wallace (110), Julian Blackmon (140), Shyheim Carter (166)

 

A big trade down from 66 could yield riches.  I've seen projections of us getting a 4th round comp pick for Jamison Crowder and a 6th for Ty Nsekhe, so we're already going to have three picks in that 90-150 range.  The Broncos, Ravens, Steelers, and Texans all have multiple fourth round picks pre-comp pick awards, and I think the Patriots might too but I'm not sure about that.  A trade down from 66 to get two fourths is interesting, especially if we can squeeze a sixth out of it too.  Four picks in the fourth, one in the fifth, two in the sixth, two in the seventh.  10 player class.

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1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

We really have to hope there isn't a run on QB's so Philly doesn't end up with one of the top 3 WRs.  

 

Yeah.  As for rumors-scuttlebutt -- the hot one is Ruggs to Philly.  Although, I do recall though a ton of rumors that Philly was going to draft Guice and they never did. 

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Man, I wouldn't mind taking Amik Robertson if he somehow fell into the top of the 7th round or earlier if we land more late round picks. I get the Tyrann Mathieu comp. with his size at 5'-9" but, T is faster and more ferocious.

I love Amik's vision, he stays widescreen for the most part and will detach and close fast from his man to stymie hi-low reads and contribute on run plays. He's got great, expansive zone awareness, and he isn't passive in zone either, he's looking for work and a way to make a play while maintaining his responsibilities. He knows what he's supposed to be doing, but also why and he can manipulate QB's with how he sets, although that will be less effective at the next level. He's got great timing on the ball, he's reading details in his man's positioning and making nice little moves to prepare himself for snatching that **** if possible.

He can get swallowed up by blockers, which isn't a surprise with his size, but he's still effective defending the screen game and twisting his body to get around blocks and still make a play. He's not soft by any means. He just plays smart and doesn't stick his nose in the scrum unless he's by nature of the play, the tip of the spear.

 

I love guys like him and he should probably go in the 4th or even higher if they believe he is the next "honey badger" or whatever, but I can see some people overlooking him because of his size, even with all that production.

Edited by Fresh8686
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3 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

We really have to hope there isn't a run on QB's so Philly doesn't end up with one of the top 3 WRs.  

If they do nothing else this offseason, from what I've heard around here, Howie Roseman is going to get a top reciever in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if they traded up to get one....they also need a corner. Those two position are running neck and neck for the Eagles.

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8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think he might go a little lower than the fourth in the draft.  Third round, maybe late second round was his ceiling before he got hurt.  With an ACL tear, there is a chance he doesn't get drafted because he didn't have a big history of production prior to this season.  Rounds five and six is where I'd be looking for him.  I don't think we have a sixth rounder though.

I'm comparing to Jake Butt. He was projected as a first rounder but tore his ACL at the bowl game prompting him to miss the first season. Breeland should be healthy for summer camps but doesn't have nearly as high a pedigree. If he's getting a clean bill of healthy i'd throw a late 4th at him depending on where we stand with Comp picks. I think we're projected to have a 4th and a 6th.

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

If they do nothing else this offseason, from what I've heard around here, Howie Roseman is going to get a top reciever in the draft. I wouldn't be surprised if they traded up to get one....they also need a corner. Those two position are running neck and neck for the Eagles.

It's not like Philly has had a successful run at drafting WR. Whiteside, Algholor, Mack Hollins, Jordan Matthews etc. Honestly, Maclin was probably their last hit and that was almost a decade ago.

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Yeah I think so.  He's an elite playmaker and he can take simple stuff out of the backfield for chunk gains because of his very explosive acceleration after his up-field cut.  But I also like him in the slot for 4 verts and screens/hitches.  If you put him and Steven Sims or Terry McLaurin in the slot, those safeties are going to have to make tough choices and they'll probably have to check to quarters.

 

Guice is a pretty big weapon out of the backfield too.  His pass personnel utility has been a welcome surprise.

 

I think my favorite back for us in this class is AJ Dillon.  I want someone to bludgeon defenses with.  I want to be able to go spread and get a whole bunch of DBs on the field and run Dillon into them.  I love the smashmouth identity the 49ers created, and I think that's the way to win while developing Haskins at the same time.

I honestly would like to see us run with what we have at RB and if it doesn't work out then next year is absolutely stacked at the position. 

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@volsmet

 

Saw video you posted, so is it true Reggie White in his last college game knocked Boomer Esiason out the game and then Tenessee won the Citris Bowl?

Edited by Renegade7

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5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I think Tyler Johnson has a chance at going in the second round.  He's the second best route runner among the WRs I've seen, and we always say route-running translates.  He offers really nice value at 66 IMO, but I'm holding out hope that Tee Higgins falls like DK Metcalf did last season.  That's the dream scenario.  We could trade up from 66 to get him if that happens again.

 

This WR class is so much fun to dig into and the projections are all over the place. I see Tee Higgins often going in the first round and Tyler Johnson in the middle of the third, but I think your right that he could slip into the second. He has too many high value traits that raise his floor for the NFL. Route running, catch radius, and contested catch ability are all already there in some form. It’d be awesome if he also had McLaurin’s speed, but he’s alright with what he has. 

 

If it was me, I’d pick Higgins over Johnson though because I have some concerns over Johnson’s ability to beat press man coverage and Higgins adds something special to our group of wide receivers. Higgins has a higher ceiling and maybe Johnson has a higher floor in the NFL is how I might put it. 

 

I love Tee’s burst for someone with his length and his physicality when he wants to be involved. He has that edge to him to fight for the ball and I think he might have more dog in him than TJ. Plus his RAC game is nice and he could develop into a plus blocker if he’s challenged right by our staff.

 

i have a hard time seeing him drop to the top of the third, but I’d love to get him somehow. I doubt he’ll have as bad a 3-cone as DK had for people to glom onto and he also runs a more varied route tree than what some people were dinging DK for IIRC. 

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23 hours ago, volsmet said:

Test your scouting talents by trying to handicap this guys future with what little you can find in the inter webs.

 

Davion Taylor is a guy who will be looked into more thoroughly than your grandpas prostate. Didn’t play in hs, track stud, phenomenal athlete, raw but with immense gifts.

 

 

He's definitely raw as hell like you said, but I could see him in the 4th (reach imo) to 7th round range as a high upside project pick or a high value UDFA. I had to find clips of the Colorado defense on youtube to watch more of his games, but that sideline to sideline speed is real and he will chase your ass down if need be. I guess he could be our next Apke, playing mostly special teams and maybe getting some use in very simple situational packages for the first couple years, until he internalizes the proper instincts and contextual keys/triggers enough to execute the defensive scheme as a beast of a WILL (can you imagine him and R. Foster roaming the field, with I guess Holcomb in the middle? They'd be ****ing lions out there).

 

But, right now, dude gets lost out there on vertical routes and it takes him too long to make adjustments in space, especially for the nfl. It's going to take him some time. His hand technique, gap awareness, catch point timing, and feel for space and taking angles all need development to be viable in the NFL. Still, it might be worth the wait and he has climbed up this far with a good attitude.  

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/3-pac-12-sleepers-for-the-2020-nfl-draft

 

Quote

Davion Taylor, LB/SS, Colorado

Davion Taylor is Colorado's version of Isaiah Simmons. He plays the STAR position for the Buffs defense, which is a hybrid safety/linebacker overhang defender role. At 6'2, 225 pounds, Taylor qualified for the national track and field championships as an All-Pac-12 performer. Check this: He ran a 10.5 in the 100-meter dash, which was a sixth-place finish in the 2018 Pac-12 Outdoor Championships. Simply put it, Davion Taylor is a freak athlete. He clearly shows it on film too, as he is an absolute blur in the open field while roaming sideline to sideline and closing on the ball. His biggest strength is his ability in pass coverage. He is a matchup piece against big slots and running backs with the man coverage chops to win consistently. If he shows steps forward in zone processing and play strength against the run, his stock could skyrocket up draft boards.

 

 

Quote

Davion Taylor, Outside Linebacker, 6-4, 224 pounds
2019 Stats: 72 tackles, 1 sack, 1 fumble recovery, 4 passes defended
Strengths: Taylor is a track athlete as he ran 10.51 in the 100-meter dash. He has good explosion as a tackler and has really good range. He does his best work in coverage in the curl to flat or short areas on the field. At the Senior Bowl, he is playing as the “Will” linebacker. The belief is Taylor will be used as a situational play at the NFL level, who could be a solid blitzer due to his speed and quickness. You can put him in the game and have him rush the passer from the outside or inside linebacker position. He will make an NFL roster and his money as a solid contributor on special teams.
Weaknesses: Taylor’s lateral movement is good but he has to improve his change of direction. He’s not the best in covering receivers and tight ends on vertical or “seam” routes. He does better in coverage when the receivers are in front of him.  He’s still learning the game as he didn’t play football in high school.
Projected Draft Position: 5th or 6th Round. Taylor has tremendous upside, mainly due to his speed. He could be a solid special teams contributor with the outside chance that he could develop into a starter. He is similar to former Denver Broncos and current Tennessee Titans linebacker Wesley Woodyard, who ran a 4.51 40-yard dash at the combine in 2008 and was an undrafted free agent.

 

https://denver.cbslocal.com/2020/01/24/steven-montez-davion-taylor-senior-bowl-nfl-scouts-colorado-buffaloes/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

 

Edited by Fresh8686

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@Fresh8686 I think you nailed it wrt Higgins having the higher ceiling and Johnson the higher floor.  I could see Johnson going in the back half of the 2nd because a contending team wants a good, immediate impact receiver.  

I find Higgins and Mims to have a lot in common, and while Mims answered the question of his route tree over Senior Bowl week, Higgins hasn’t yet (maybe at his Pro Day?).  I don’t see either of those two lasting to our 3rd round pick, but I would be thrilled if they did.  I’d say there’s a small chance that some combination of Hamler, Aiyuk, Edwards and the two Jeffersons could push them down (maybe a few others in the mix). 

Edited by skinny21
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Forget this.

 

 

Edited by RWJ
tech issues with posting video

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17 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Barring something like a stud dropping to 66, I've actually been liking a trade down scenario at 66 because I like a lot of the guys who are currently being ranked ~90-150 on many big boards.  A lot of the wide receivers, guards, running backs, and safeties I like best are being put in that range.

 

On TDN's current board, I like:

WR - Tyler Johnson (105) & Isaiah Hodgins (101)

RB - Anthony McFarland (113) & AJ Dillon (162)

IOL - Damien Lewis (100), Biadasz (103), Stenberg (120), Shane Lemieux (125), Solomon Kindley (129)

DB - K'Von Wallace (110), Julian Blackmon (140), Shyheim Carter (166)

 

A big trade down from 66 could yield riches.  I've seen projections of us getting a 4th round comp pick for Jamison Crowder and a 6th for Ty Nsekhe, so we're already going to have three picks in that 90-150 range.  The Broncos, Ravens, Steelers, and Texans all have multiple fourth round picks pre-comp pick awards, and I think the Patriots might too but I'm not sure about that.  A trade down from 66 to get two fourths is interesting, especially if we can squeeze a sixth out of it too.  Four picks in the fourth, one in the fifth, two in the sixth, two in the seventh.  10 player class.

 

I don't think we get the 6th for Nseke.  This site just projects us to get the 4th for Crowder:  https://overthecap.com/projecting-the-2020-compensatory-picks-2/

 

Looking at past trades for high 3rd rounders:

 

In 2018, Baltimore dropped 10 spots and picked up a mid 5th and a late 6th

In 2017, SF traded their high 3rd for a 7th and a 2nd the next year (HORRIBLE trade for SF as they passed on Kamara (whom the Saints took with their pick)

In 2017, Jets dropped 9 spots and got a 5th.

 

 

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I've got a feeling that we'll trade up from #66 to the 2nd round to grab Trautman if he gets in range.  It's just a hunch that the new coaching staff is going to be desperate for a TE.

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6 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

I've got a feeling that we'll trade up from #66 to the 2nd round to grab Trautman if he gets in range.  It's just a hunch that the new coaching staff is going to be desperate for a TE.


I don’t think they will be. I think Greg Olsen comes here. Sure, health is a concern, but his value isn’t just on the field. It’s to help teach a system. Hentges is a guy who I think can develop. Sprinkle is Sprinkle. But I’m okay with the three of them. Adding another is ideal, but I don’t think they’ll use ammo they can use on other positions u less the value is at their current draft selection.

 

if anything I think they trade back.

 

But... you never know.

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Another hunch, Quintez Cephus will be there in the 5th round, and we should draft him.

 

Run first, run second, and maybe run third team for Wisconsin.  And his QB play was awful.  Bad accuracy that's not throwing anyone open.  As a result, if Cephus wanted the ball, he had to go get it.

 

Wide catch radius that grabs the ball comfortably at max extension.  He has a second gear, he's clearly athletic, and shows some quick feet.

 

He's someone who I think can be a much better option as our Z than Harmon.

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