2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[volsmet]

10 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

Dude needs to get bigger, but he might be worth a look in the later rounds.

 

An offensive lineman to watch

 

9 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Watching Ohio State a bit this year KJ Hill was constantly sticking out to me. I was surprised to see him mostly in the 3rd to 5th round range, but assume that's a product of what many have said is an extremely deep WR class.

 

Sounds like Hill is showing out at the Senior Bowl.

 

I had kind of circled Hill as a "Terry McLaurin" type of pick in the 3rd round or 4th round and given that he has likely wrked a bit with Haskins, it would be a winning addition.

 

Now I fear he won't make it to the 3rd, but there are so many WRs that could go in front of him ... that 3rd may be a great spot to take him.

He stood out big time last year, I was hoping for a nice slip to round 4 in a class like this. 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Daniel Jeremiah just posted his top 50:

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098476/article/daniel-jeremiahs-top-50-prospect-rankings-for-2020-nfl-draft-10

Aiyuk is so filthy, I didn’t even realize he was in this class. 🤔

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

DJ's OL rankings are nuts.  Feels like he's trying to be different.  Thomas is clearly a better player than Becton.  I'm not even sure Becton can make it through an entire game at LT, or that he won't eat himself out of the league in two years.  Thomas straight up kicked K'Lavon Chaisson's ass and handled Lawrence well too, and he dominated Okwara.  Strong against real competition.  He is so much more explosive than Becton, So much more fluid in his set and his slide and mirror and he's got real recovery speed when he gets beat.  He can redirect inside after getting beat and re-establish the pocket against NFL twitch.  Becton does not have this capability at all.  He is the best pass protector in the class day one, not a projection.  Plus we've got two seasons of him just road-grading the left side with Kindley.  He's proven himself as a run blocker.

 

People are flat out hating on this kid now, and he's going to end up being the best LT from the class, just like we knew to be the case back in September.  TDN's guy specified LSU as his worst film in his scouting report, and I'm thinking WTF was he seeing?  He was outstanding in that game.  Chaisson, Clark, Fehoko, and Lawrence got almost nothing on him.  The only left side pressure came from one single snap where Fromm hitched twice and Chaisson got his arm on the release.  Thomas still rode him out of the pocket and got him on the ground, Fromm would have stayed clean if he'd stepped up or gotten it out at the end of the drop.  The rest was from blitzes with failed protections, and that's on Fromm and the playcaller.

 

We don't need to overthink this kid.  He's a good player and a clean projection to the NFL.  He's a fringe top ten pick and clearly the best OT in the class.

Thomas made light work of Florida’s elite pass rushers as well. He’s ridiculous, Becton wouldn’t make a flea on *Thomas’ arse. 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

He looks like a better version of Ryan Anderson. What would his role be in a 4-3? SAM? I am not sure I'd let the presence of Kerrigan or Anderson affect my draft decision making, but I'm also not sure about adding more players with an injury history. What are your thoughts about fit in our defense if we don't factor in Kerrigan or Anderson?

 

That's what he is.  Team ball enforcer edge linebacker with a penchant for showing up big in big games.  Brutal striker and hand fighter.  When Alabama defenses have been good, they've had linebackers like him in there playing prominent roles and being the spiritual leaders for the group.

 

Unfortunately I don't think he's a great fit for a 4-3 base.  He's a pure 3-4 OLB IMO.  Just don't think he has the agility for a big stand up role in an even front.  Maybe as a base end?  But I think a big part of his value comes from disguising his assignment as a linebacker.  The rush repertoire doesn't seem good enough to play end full time.  He's the same tricky fit for a 4-3 as Ryan Anderson.

 

I don't know if I'd draft him with our third.  I have this feeling that a really good OT or DB is still going to be available at that pick.  But in the fourth, I would consider him for sure despite the tricky fit.  I would pick him in the premise that I just want to get the football player in the building, and that I'll design the roles and packages to make it work after.

 

We've had problems with guys with injury histories, but it's a way to get high end talent for cheap.  Not a bad deal of you can red shirt them.  And Jenni he was healthy this season at least.

 

[mistertim]

Wait, so now we're talking about Miami trying to trade up to #1 for Burrow? 

 

Cincy is taking Burrow. No way they're going to trade that pick. They need a QB and they're right at the prime spot to get the best QB possible which won't happen again unless they somehow managed to get the #1 overall pick again next year and can get Lawrence. That happening two years in a row is incredibly unlikely and the team that ends up #1 overall next year will take Lawrence almost no questions asked.

 

And why would Miami need to trade any higher than 3 to get Tua? The only way I could see them trying to get to #2 is if they hear the Lions are trying to trade up to 2 for Tua. Even then, I think it's insanely unlikely that the Skins would do it because that means we'd basically lose our shot at the best player in the draft by moving down to 5. We might still be able to get Simmons at 5 but there's still no guarantee.

 

I think this will play out like most drafts. The usual suspects will do the usual things, and most predictions will be relatively close. Cincy will take Burrow at 1, we'll take Chase at 2. There will be one or two trades but probably nothing earth shattering. There may be a couple surprise picks but again probably nothing earth shattering. Probably a couple guys will fall who people thought would go much higher. Basically just another draft. 

[skinny21]

@mistertim yeah, I have to agree with all of that.  
I will say there is a sliver of a chance their FO likes Tua or Herbert better (or close enough), in which case, trading back and getting a haul of picks could make sense to them.  Just really can’t see anyone bypassing Burrow for those other two though.  

[PartyPosse]

3 hours ago, VRIEL1 said:

I'm starting to like QB Justin Herbert from the University of Oregon. He can make all the throws. He's a fast elusive runner. He is 6ft 4inches and 225lbs. He won't make it out of the 1st round so unfortunately I'd say use our #2 pick on him. Let him and Haskins battle it out best player starts. 

This isn’t gonna go well.

[arftech]

3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

This isn’t gonna go well.

@AVRIEL1 doing some serious trolling. 🤣

[Going Commando]

9 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

PFF tweet about Damien Lewis

 

Gunnery Sgt Nick Brody is a good player.  I think he was the best college player on that LSU line.  He's good, he's just small.  6020 isn't going to be preferable to big ****ers like Brederson and Ruiz and Stenberg and Kindley and the Oregon kids.  Not when you don't know if he can snap the ball too.  A surprisingly decent interior OL class and the low draft value of his position is going to push him down the draft into bargain territory.  The problem for him is he'll have a tough time getting a roster spot if he doesn't win a starting guard job early.  I really love his game though, and would make room on the roster for him if I drafted him.  But I also realize that him with Wes Martin makes us perilously small in the interior of the OL.  You need beef up front IMO.

 

I also feel like it's time for places like TDN to go ahead and move Nick Harris down their big boards.  I was early with the high regard for his play, but 6012 and 293 is not getting drafted anywhere close to the first round.  He's not Rodney Hudson.

[KDawg]

Saahdiq Charles is so fluid in his movements and quick. He has great control and uses leverage so damn well. He's really impressive. 

 

He moves like a defensive lineman, but anchors well enough to be a tackle.

 

I wouldn't have him add much weight. Maybe 5-10 pounds max. What makes him intriguing is his ability to move like that. He is a nightmare for linebackers and box safeties. 

 

Big like. I'd be ecstatic if we could snag him.

[LD0506]

At this point it's all speculation, but in a fun way, so no one ought to get bent outta shape over outside the box suggestions or opinions.

 

So, just like buying a lottery ticket, play the "What if?" game

 

Would you make a deal that cost you Young but say, netted you Wirfs and Epenesa, some small change later picks? Mix n match names there, was schmeckt gut?

 

What would it take to deal out of the #2? Realistically, there won't be a "Three first rounders and our firstborn!" offers from Miami, but things that make you go "hmmmm?", yanno?

[KDawg]

21 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

At this point it's all speculation, but in a fun way, so no one ought to get bent outta shape over outside the box suggestions or opinions.

 

So, just like buying a lottery ticket, play the "What if?" game

 

Would you make a deal that cost you Young but say, netted you Wirfs and Epenesa, some small change later picks? Mix n match names there, was schmeckt gut?

 

What would it take to deal out of the #2? Realistically, there won't be a "Three first rounders and our firstborn!" offers from Miami, but things that make you go "hmmmm?", yanno?

 

I don't think you trade Young for Epenesa/Wirfs.

 

I don't personally like either of them enough for that.

 

You consider moving Young if you can net Simmons/Okudah + Thomas + Charles type of haul. Plus picks next year. That would be a ridiculous get, though and not very likely. 

 

Speaking of Thomas... I like him, but the more I watch of him I get the feel that he plays high and relies a lot on strength rather than leverage. That could just be because he's so massive it looks that way. But I really like how he is constantly got his head on a swivel and looking for a replacement player when his assignment shoots inside. He also has really active hands and does well keeping pass rushers hands off of him. He's patient on his assignments and that allows him to be effective even when he seems to be a touch high. I think he's my favorite of the tackle crop... Other than Saahdiq Charles.

 

Wirfs seems to overset a bit. That leaves me a touch worried for his ability to defend against an inside move. But he does move well for his size and he seems to block until the whistle on a consistent basis. Seems to have an overall good base, just he's an extremely aggressive guy in his blocks and that tends to lead to some really awesome looking blocks and some times where he overshoots his assignment. Strong guy, so if he got his hands on them he still did well, but the NFL is a different animal. 

 

Becton plays very high, but that son of a gun is HUGE. He will overpower ends even at the NFL level. He has the footwork to get by as far as sets and attack steps go, but he seems to play with his feet a bit too close and without a great base. He is extremely aggressive to the point that he makes Wirfs look like he's playing patty cake (that's not a good assessment). If he doesn't win his assignment with power, he gets himself off balance and loses it. Big, powerful guy who has loads of NFL potential, but he's more robotic than the other top tackles and needs a lot of technique work. 

 

Jedrick Wills is a very good player. He doesn't seem as explosive as the other guys, but he anchors well and plays within himself. Does a good job getting to the second level. Seems pro ready. I get the vibe that Wills is among the safer picks of these guys, but not the top of the talent chain.

 

Of these guys my rankings:

 

1. Andrew Thomas

2. Saahdiq Charles (He may not be prototypical, but his ability to get out to the second level like he does, and do it so quickly, could be a game changer)

3. Jedrick Wills (might be the safest pick of them all)

4. Tristan Wirfs (could excel at guard)

5. Mekhi Becton (project who relies a lot on his explosiveness/power)

 

I'll watch more and more. But this is where I currently am. 

[Going Commando]

7 hours ago, volsmet said:

Thomas made light work of Florida’s elite pass rushers as well. He’s ridiculous, Becton wouldn’t make a flea on *Thomas’ arse. 

 

DJ's take on Becton vis a vis his take on Thomas is why it's always worth it to watch the players and decide for yourself.  Even draftniks who you respect and who are good drop dumbass takes every year.  Becton is a big, gimmicky-type specialist who you see playing in a certain way that flourishes in the college game but not really in the NFL.  He's not going to be flipping sides to mirror the play-strength at the next level.  And he's not going to be constantly cut blocking on the backside either.  Not for a good offense anyway.

 

I guess the thought with him is he's the next Trent Brown.  But Brown was a seventh round pick.  And he had almost eaten himself out of the NFL before Scarnecchia built him up.  I'm not ****ing drafting that top ten.  Much less ahead of the five or six other tackles in the class who are better than him.

[Skinsinparadise]

17 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Watching Ohio State a bit this year KJ Hill was constantly sticking out to me. I was surprised to see him mostly in the 3rd to 5th round range, but assume that's a product of what many have said is an extremely deep WR class.

 

Sounds like Hill is showing out at the Senior Bowl.

 

I had kind of circled Hill as a "Terry McLaurin" type of pick in the 3rd round or 4th round and given that he has likely wrked a bit with Haskins, it would be a winning addition.

 

Now I fear he won't make it to the 3rd, but there are so many WRs that could go in front of him ... that 3rd may be a great spot to take him.

 

I have to rewatch KJ Hill, I recall liking him a lot last year when I was watching the Ohio State guys but then kept reading this year how he wasn't the same. But I do put value in players who burn it up at the senior bowl.  I did mention it multiple times when I pushed McLaurin last year.  And the big one of course was Donald years ago killing it in the senior bowl, that certainly translated to real games. 

19 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

Does anyone know where you can watch any live stream of the senior bowl practices... or are they even available?  

 

they play snippets during the day on the NFL Network and then do a recap at 8 for an hour showing practice.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Via Adam Beasley of the Miami Herald, Dolphins General Manager Chris Grier said the team had “more than enough” draft currency to move up in the order if they need to.

The Dolphins have two extra first rounders (the 18th and 26th overall picks) from shipping Minkah Fitzpatrick to Pittsburgh and Laremy Tunsil to Houston, and extra second from the Saints.

Ostensibly, that would enable them to make a deal to move up if they wanted. And it appears that owner Stephen Ross is interested in such a move.

While there have been mixed reports about the Bengals’ willingness to consider anything other taking than LSU quarterback Joe Burrow with the first pick, Grier pointed out one of the great truths of the offseason, saying there was “a lot of misinformation” being circulated by teams this time of year, in hopes of maximizing their own interests.

But whether they move up or not, Grier made it clear the Dolphins are very much in the market for a quarterback, despite saying they wanted to bring back Ryan Fitzpatrick (who was good enough to complicate their draft plans).

“We’d like to find the right guy to be the quarterback,” Grier said. “You see how important it is around the league. So I wouldn’t just say it’s Steve. It’s Brian [Flores]. Myself. Coaching staff. Scouts. We think it’s important that we find the right guy, and the leader, to be the quarterback here for a long time.”

And if that means using more than one of those hoarded picks to acquire him, that sounds like something Grier is willing to do.

 

 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001098624/article/2020-senior-bowl-day-2-justin-herbert-sizzles-bears-eye-te

 

What we learned from NFL scouts, Nick Saban and more

 

From the scouts. Multiple scouts have been impressed with OT Ben Bartch, a rare Division-III invite to the Senior Bowl from Saint John's. Bartch, on the South squad, has largely held his own in practice reps against a strong group of pass rushers who are vastly more physical than the competition he faced at St. John's. An area scout for an NFC team said Bartch shares some similar traits to the Senior Bowl's last D-III success story on the offensive line, Ali Marpet of Hobart College, although Marpet played guard rather than tackle. The Tampa Bay Buccaneers selected Marpet in the second round in 2018. ... South Carolina State OL Alex Taylor, whose length is like no other prospect in Mobile at 6-foot-8 with arms of 36-plus inches, has struggled with some of the South's top defensive linemen. According to an area scout for an AFC team, Taylor lacks the necessary anchor strength in pass protection, but is more of a project as a draft prospect, one who could develop nicely in a year or two but wouldn't likely be a ready-made NFL starter. ... A scout for an AFC team noted Lenoir-Rhyne's Kyle Dugger struggled to catch punts on Tuesday in windy conditions, looking rusty in that role after missing the latter half of the season with an injury. Dugger looked more comfortable catching punts on Wednesday in dealing with several offerings of 50-plus yards from South Carolina's Joseph Charlton. ... Texas Tech OT Terence Steele, on the South squad, has struggled with the quickness the South pass rushers have displayed this week, according to a personnel executive for an AFC team. Alabama's Terrell Lewis, who is working with defensive linemen in Mobile, beat Steele for a strip of Colorado QB Steven Montez late in Wednesday's team drills.

 

Bears eyeing in-demand TE. North squad TE Adam Trautman of Dayton has been in high demand this week for interviews with clubs.

"Literally, I had a guy reach around and grab me by the stomach and was like 'Hey, I need to talk to you,' " Trautman said, recounting one encounter from a busy hotel lobby here in Mobile.

Dayton head coach Rick Chamberlin has been in town this week to support the Flyers team captain, who set career bests in 2019 in receptions (70), yards (916) and touchdowns (14). Trautman said the Chicago Bears have shown strong early interest.

"They're interested in me," said Trautman. "They tell me they like what they see."

[Skinsinparadise]

Senior Bowl Rumors Thursday

Updated Jan. 23, 2020
By Charlie Campbell. Follow Charlie on Twitter @draftcampbell.

With all the general managers, coaches and scouts in attendance for the Senior Bowl, there is a lot of chatter going around. Here are some of the highlights from around the league from the fourth day of the 2020 Senior Bowl week.
 

• For a lot of the 2020 NFL Draft process, there have been connections of the Miami Dolphins and Alabama quarterback Tua Tagovailoa. The Dolphins have done a fire sale to acquire a boatload of picks to build around a young franchise quarterback, and they could be in position to land Tagovailoa with their selection at fifth-overall in the 2020 NFL Draft. Dolphins owner Stephen Ross traveled twice last fall to watch Tagovailoa in person, a rare occurrence for a team owner. In speaking to sources with the Miami organization, it sounds like Tagovailoa going to Miami with that pick is a near lock. The organization is behind him, and he has been the plan for a long time.
  
  Of course, a lot could change in the leadup to the 2020 NFL Draft, and Tagovailoa will have some critical medical exams in the months to come. If those go poorly, that might cause a change of thinking for Miami's front office. Also another team could trade up ahead of the Dolphins to take Tagovailoa because there are three teams picking ahead of them that could want to move down. Thus, the Dolphins will do their due diligence on Oregon quarterback Justin Herbert as a potential Plan B. Right now, howver, sources with Miami say Tagovailoa going to the Dolphins with the fourth pick could be as close to a lock as there is at this early point in the draft process

---

• After the fifth pick, the Dolphins' next selection is at 18th overall, and it sounds like they want an offensive tackle at that pick from speaking sources with the team. Alabama's Jedrick Wills is the top target if he gets there. The Dolphins love Wills, and they badly need to improve their edge blocking after trading away Laremy Tunsil. They paid close attention to Wills while traveling to watch Tagovailoa. Wills could be off the board by No. 18, so other options Miami could consider include Georgia's Andrew Thomas, Iowa's Tristan Wirfs and Louisville's Mekhi Becton. Thomas and Becton will probably be long gone by that point given the number of potential landing spots for these tackles. In their highest hopes, it sounds like the Dolphins will follow up on Tagovailoa by taking his blind-side protector from Alabama.

http://www.walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Senior-Bowl-Rumors-Thursday

[Pick6]

I think the top 5 picks are as close to a lock as you can get.

 

Burrow, Young, Okudah, the OT Giants fall in love with, Tua

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, Pick6 said:

I think the top 5 picks are as close to a lock as you can get.

 

Burrow, Young, Okudah, the OT Giants fall in love with, Tua

 

Feels that way right now with the permutation perhaps being influenced by a trade into the top 5. 

[LD0506]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

You consider moving Young if you can net Simmons/Okudah + Thomas + Charles type of haul. Plus picks next year. That would be a ridiculous get, though and not very likely. 

 

Thanks, good response w/ food for thought.

 

Agree, you'll never get that much so what would make you consider it? Simmons/Okudah + Charles, and maybe a 2nd or picks next year (within the range of possible if Miami gets a hardon for Tua)?

 

And I completely concede that you know more here than me, but I kinda like Wirfs for RT if Trent comes back, I'm a big trenches guy and Haskins and the running game would both benefit from solidifying the O line.

[Going Commando]

49 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And the big one of course was Donald years ago killing it in the senior bowl, that certainly translated to real games.  

 

The counterpoint is Phil Taylor.  Killed it in the Senior Bowl practices and got himself drafted in the first round as a result.  But his film wasn't good, he wasn't good, and he didn't end up being good in the NFL.  Donald's film was amazing.  If you really like a guy based on his senior bowl week, but his film isn't great, I think you have to figure out a compelling reason why he "underachieved" in school.  If it's something like McLaurin's situation where the answer might be rigid scheme and/or blue-blood depth pushing him down the foodchain for his program, then OK.  But even in those situations, I think they need to be showing you at least something on film. 

 

So like in the case of Van Jefferson, who wasn't very productive at Florida, you need to figure out why that is.  If it's factors outside of his control and he's out there getting open in the design of the offense and blocking, then you don't ding him for lack of production.  And I think the film is probably there with Jefferson to match his Senior Bowl week.  He shows the same suddenness and easy ability to win against zone and off coverages.  Reasonably good ability to shake off press man but he's not going to blow you away here.  He's not getting routine targets but he's getting open with five, six yards of space routinely because he's such a good seam finder and he's really good in short game.  Shiftiness, explosive build up speed, comfort in space, and economy of movement after the catch is on display in the film.  And Florida's offense is grinding and methodical and no one is really putting up big individual numbers on a regular basis.  They had significant quarterback issues pre-Trask and Trask isn't exactly Tua or Burrow, threatening man coverage deep and easily sticking throws well outside the hashes.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

Thanks, good response w/ food for thought.

 

Agree, you'll never get that much so what would make you consider it? Simmons/Okudah + Charles, and maybe a 2nd or picks next year (within the range of possible if Miami gets a hardon for Tua)?

 

And I completely concede that you know more here than me, but I kinda like Wirfs for RT if Trent comes back, I'm a big trenches guy and Haskins and the running game would both benefit from solidifying the O line.

 

Well, the draft is a crapshoot. None of us knows a whole hell of a lot more than the others

 

I think Wirfs can be a decent NFL RT. Better NFL guard. 

[Going Commando]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

And if that means using more than one of those hoarded picks to acquire him, that sounds like something Grier is willing to do. 

 

As we work through the draft process, and unless Tua has a disastrous setback in his rehab, I think it'll become clear that #2 is the only safe spot to land Tua, and that it's going to take a fortune to move up that high for anyone except Detroit.  #3 is going to be Tua's floor.

If Detroit wants Tua, offering their second rounder to us probably gets it done.  Miami is going to have to pay through the nose to beat out that offer because of Chase Young.  An RGIII type haul--which they can pay this year--but they might not be willing to do so.

 

We are incredibly well positioned.  This was a really good year to get #2.

[LD0506]

I just fell like we might see a different kinda draft day w/ Rivera & Co calling the shots. They aren't likely to see any one player as a savior or gotta have it guy. I'm hoping Miami gets stoked for Tua and the media takes that bone in their teeth. We've seen the way that irrelevant bull**** gets blown up approaching the draft, this year promises to be a barn burner. Cincinnati is already being painted into a corner w/ Burrows and people might have strokes if they even  got a whiff that they were talking about deals.

 

Personally, if we take Young and never look back I'll be good with that, but just for entertainment value having several teams in a mosh pit frenzy would be fun.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

I just fell like we might see a different kinda draft day w/ Rivera & Co calling the shots. They aren't likely to see any one player as a savior or gotta have it guy. I'm hoping Miami gets stoked for Tua and the media takes that bone in their teeth. We've seen the way that irrelevant bull**** gets blown up approaching the draft, this year promises to be a barn burner. Cincinnati is already being painted into a corner w/ Burrows and people might have strokes if they even  got a whiff that they were talking about deals.

 

Personally, if we take Young and never look back I'll be good with that, but just for entertainment value having several teams in a mosh pit frenzy would be fun.

 

Along the entertainment lines...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Skins hold Trent through the draft and see if they get a guy like Charles... And then see what he looks like on the field...

 

If he seems like he may pan out, the Skins would then try to trade Williams after the fact (but before camp) to acquire assets for the 2021 NFL Draft.

 

If they have a plan to acquire a second rounder, I don't think it's Williams this year.

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

Along the entertainment lines...

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the Skins hold Trent through the draft and see if they get a guy like Charles... And then see what he looks like on the field...

 

If he seems like he may pan out, the Skins would then try to trade Williams after the fact (but before camp) to acquire assets for the 2021 NFL Draft.

 

If they have a plan to acquire a second rounder, I don't think it's Williams this year.

I think you have to get him in and figure out where his head is at. If he's already mentally checked out as a redskin (we've all left jobs we wanted out of), get him out ASAP.

[LD0506]

At this point I'll settle for the media haranguing teams about the job they did or didn't do and they never mention us.