KDawg Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: It takes an entire team. That's always going to be the case when there are 22 players on the field at any given time. But a truly dominant EDGE covers for a lot of flaws on a defense and has the single greatest impact a defensive position can have IMO. I'm not disagreeing, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate. If you build around a single dominant player and he gets injured... where are you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: I'm not disagreeing, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate. If you build around a single dominant player and he gets injured... where are you? Same thing that happens when a great QB gets injured. I'd rather build around a truly great player on defense than settle for a bunch of B and C-level players. But you really need a few A-level players on either side of the ball to enjoy sustained success in this league. When you have an opportunity to draft one, you don't pass it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 41 minutes ago, KDawg said: I'm not disagreeing, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate. If you build around a single dominant player and he gets injured... where are you? Personally I’m open minded to either taking Young or trading down. re the above, I’d say the difference at present is that we aren’t really going to be building around Young as such, he’s going to complement what we have on the DL. but...we also need to improve the spine. MLB and FS. I’d get a FS in free agency, and then go Young in the first and MLB at the top of the third if that’s the plan. Maybe the extra cap space allows the ‘luxury’ of sticking at #2 for Young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 37 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: When you have an opportunity to draft one, you don't pass it up. See, this is what I love about these kind of topics... It opens up all sorts of rabbit holes and really lets people delve into their own individual preferences... So... Does this strategy apply only to the first round, or any round? Or is it specific to the hivemind's scouting grades per individual player in the draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, KDawg said: I'm not disagreeing, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate. If you build around a single dominant player and he gets injured... where are you? A single dominant player shouldn't necessarily win games all by themselves, but make the players around him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 10 minutes ago, KDawg said: See, this is what I love about these kind of topics... It opens up all sorts of rabbit holes and really lets people delve into their own individual preferences... So... Does this strategy apply only to the first round, or any round? Or is it specific to the hivemind's scouting grades per individual player in the draft? It applies when you have the opportunity to take the highest graded player on your (and just about everyone else's) entire draft board. A player in his own tier. When it comes to a specific round, I'm a true believer that teams who draft 2nd round, Day 2, and Day 3 superstars owe their selection much more to luck than skill; or else they wouldn't have passed on that player in the first place if they had him graded as a potential superstar. But there are plenty of times, even in the 1st round, where you don't have a player graded head and shoulders above other players. In that case, feel free to trade down because you likely have a group of players graded very closely and can acquire additional draft compensation while still drafting a player from within the tier you would have drafted with your original selection (before trading down). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 23 minutes ago, KDawg said: See, this is what I love about these kind of topics... It opens up all sorts of rabbit holes and really lets people delve into their own individual preferences... So... Does this strategy apply only to the first round, or any round? Or is it specific to the hivemind's scouting grades per individual player in the draft? The problem is it's so tough to tell how much talent we have on the defensive side of the ball because of how poorly they were coached. If they're as good as they should be (Allen, Payne, Anderson, Foster etc) then adding someone like Young makes sense. If they're not as skillful then it doesn't matter how good Young is if the rest of the D is easily exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said: It applies when you have the opportunity to take the highest graded player on your (and just about everyone else's) entire draft board. A player in his own tier. When it comes to a specific round, I'm a true believer that teams who draft 2nd round, Day 2, and Day 3 superstars owe their selection much more to luck than skill; or else they wouldn't have passed on that player in the first place if they had him graded as a potential superstar. But there are plenty of times, even in the 1st round, where you don't have a player graded head and shoulders above other players. In that case, feel free to trade down because you likely have a group of players graded very closely and can acquire additional draft compensation while still drafting a player from within the tier you would have drafted with your original selection (before trading down). Well... if the rest of the league has a guy graded as a 6th rounder, but you have him in the second round range... And you're aware of the place other teams place him: Would you take him in the second anyways? Or wait to maximize value and land more high end prospects? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 Just now, KDawg said: Well... if the rest of the league has a guy graded as a 6th rounder, but you have him in the second round range... And you're aware of the place other teams place him: Would you take him in the second anyways? Or wait to maximize value and land more high end prospects? You don't risk having enough arrogance to think you're the only team out of 32 who has a higher grade on this player than everyone else. You would take him in the 2nd if you don't have any other players with a similar grade on your board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, OVCChairman said: Our D line has struggled, i agree completely, but i cant take the last 3 years as a true measuring stick because theyve been asked to play a way that does not allow them to flourish, or even rush the passer with any consistency. Our down lineman were asked, a lot of the time, to open holes for LBs to fill. The big boys in the middle were not positioned to go after the QB. I would be willing to bet that our sack totals go up greatly, just by moving Kerrigan and Sweat to End and allowing them to work the edges. I firmly believe that our scheme and philosophy alone are going to dramatically change what we think of our current d line. Yeah, I agree. As an example, Preston is having his best season by a good bit and at least a part of that can be attributed to scheme and fit. There’s no gaurentee, but you have to think this Ron and Jack coaches defense will at least put players in better positions to have success than the Barry/Manusky debacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 hours ago, OVCChairman said: Our D line has struggled, i agree completely, but i cant take the last 3 years as a true measuring stick because theyve been asked to play a way that does not allow them to flourish, or even rush the passer with any consistency. Our down lineman were asked, a lot of the time, to open holes for LBs to fill. The big boys in the middle were not positioned to go after the QB. I would be willing to bet that our sack totals go up greatly, just by moving Kerrigan and Sweat to End and allowing them to work the edges. I firmly believe that our scheme and philosophy alone are going to dramatically change what we think of our current d line. Allen played plenty of 3 technique, 1 gap style, so did Ionnaidis. I agree with your point in the context of Payne. The rest of this isn't directed to you but just me making a point. If you play 3-4, one of the edge rushers typically has to play coverage, its part of the point of the scheme. If Del Rio plays a lot of 4-3 underfront as some purport then it models a 5 man front and one of the edge guys or the OLB will go into coverage often. And the nose (Payne) would often 2 gap, playing 0-1-shade on the strong side. I am not a Manusky guy and i got no doubt Del Rio will make improvements. But I'll defend Manusky on one point. When you are playing 5 man fronts, one dude on the D line is going into coverage quite often. Any team running a 3-4 is doing the same. And on twitter I notice some depict Manusky as some kind of moron for having an edge guy play some coverage. But the dude would be a moron if he didn't in the 3-4 scheme otherwise you'd be rushing 5 guys every time you are lined up in that formation. I like Sweat's potential. At 32, I am not looking for Kerrigan to all of a sudden though turn into Von Miller by not dropping into coverage as much. Kerrigan was just a guy this season. I've watched Kerrigan among the others on the D line pretty closely in recent years when I've rewatched games on coaches tape. I've put up clips, etc. i haven't done it yet for this season. But yeah I just don't think Kerrigan is a scare QB type who just brings on pressure relentlessly whether he gets to the QB or not. I like Kerrigan but to me he's more of a scavenger. He exploits breakdowns in the offense and at times will bull rush his way into sacks. He's a good player. But IMO he's not a great player and I can't blame that on Manusky. To use a baseball analogy. Changing Kerrigan to Chase Young is akin to upgrading a 270 hitter (that's how IMO Kerrigan played last year to a 330 hitter in your lineup. the improvement will be very noticeable. That IMO will help Montez Sweat reach his potential and likely ditto anyone playing 3 technique, etc on the D line at the same time. I am focused on Kerrigan because he IMO is the weak link. And I just don't think the dude has ever been a great edge guy from the stand point that he wrecks offenses and is constantly disruptive. But coming off a down year where he's going to be 32 next season -- I got no reason to believe he's about to hit his career peak now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 This is the PFF guy assigned to the Redskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: In the modern NFL where everything is about creating matchup advantages, i keep coming back to Simmons. He can literally blitz one play, then bail to FS and play center field the next. I look at what the nfl is doing and having a guy who can cover saquan barkley, travis kelce, or zach ertz, who can also blitz from the outside.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesMadisonSkins Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 It’ll be interesting. Draft the best edge rusher on paper in the last decade or trade back for 5+18+37 and draft Simmons at 5. He may not make it to 5 at this rate. But it’s a very real scenario to consider. 1. Cindy - Burrow 2. Miami - Tua 3. Lions - Young 4. NYG - Thomas 5. Skins - Simmons A lot probably depends on free agency. But even if you told me we could have Simmons + 18 + 37 I’m not sure I would take that and pass on Chase. I really think with Chase on our DL we will constantly be in the backfield disrupting plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romberjo Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 39 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: 1. Cindy - Burrow 2. Miami - Tua 3. Lions - Young 4. NYG - Thomas 5. Skins - Simmons More to the point, if we trade back to 5, then we're guaranteed either Simmons or Okudah. (Burrow, Tua in a trade-back scenario, and Young, pretty much unquestionably go 1-3.) Even if the Giants aren't stupid enough to draft OL at 4. I think there's a steep drop-off after 5 (assuming that a team wants to trade up for Tua, which places him in the top 5, which is where I think he'll end up, drafted by Miami if there isn't a trade up to get him). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 This draft is a lot more interesting for what other teams will do, than it is for what we will do at the 2nd pick. I wish I had a better feel for the 2nd and 3rd rounds. I do feel confident that Trent is going to come back and that we won't be trading him. It just makes too much sense for both parties. Frankly, we need him. We have a young QB that we need to develop and Trent, even with the emergence of McLaurin, is probably our best player on offense. We got rid of literally every single person on the team that he had a problem with, and if he stays, Trent is the kind of player that could see his number unofficially retired and should be in the Redskins ring of fame. Long tenured pro bowl players are forever beloved in Washington. In other words, I don't see us packaging players to get back into the 2nd. We'd have to use future picks, and I hope we don't do that. If I had to guess, I'd say BPA in the 2nd will be a DB, WR, or tackle. The draft is too thin on LB for one to fall unless he has other issues. We still have enough team needs that I think we can just take BPA. Perhaps with the exception of DT, but I wouldn't even avoid DE in the later rounds. Kerrigan isn't going to be here forever and we will need a rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 17 hours ago, KDawg said: I'm not disagreeing, but I am going to play Devil's Advocate. If you build around a single dominant player and he gets injured... where are you? In Washington? 16 hours ago, KDawg said: Well... if the rest of the league has a guy graded as a 6th rounder, but you have him in the second round range... And you're aware of the place other teams place him: Would you take him in the second anyways? Or wait to maximize value and land more high end prospects? You don't outsmart yourself. Pretty sure that's what got us Matt Jones, instead of David Johnson and why we missed on Stephen Anthony in the 4rth and it all may have cost McDrinky his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Well, at least some of the idiotic theories out there can be put to rest: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Yeah Burrow is slam dunk #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Just watched some Brycen Hopkins. He's maybe half a peg behind Hunter Bryant as a receiver (but close) and a peg better than Hunter Bryant as a blocker albeit neither one IMO are great blockers but they are both willing blockers so maybe they can be coached into it. I like Hopkins' size over Bryant. Watching these TEs, I get why draft geeks are all over the place on who is the best one. The ones I've watched are very close. 3rd-4th rounder types IMO. Cole Kmet so far is the best but I am not blown away by him either but I like him among others. I can see Kmet maybe in the mid to lower 2nd round. Hopkins, is fairly dynamic as a receiver. Shallow out routes in the flat, short digs-crossers, some intermediate catches. They had him play some H back, too. He moves fairly well for a TE. He's quick off the snap and separates really well. his separation skills is what grabs me the most about him. He's not much of a YAC guy in open field though. Defenders can wrap him up and take him down. As a blocker, he will put his body into the block but he doesn't really overpower people and can flat out miss blocks. As fluid as he is as a receiver, he's not a fluid blocker. But he's not a disaster as a blocker either, his spirit seems willing, so that part might be able to be coached up. Unlike Hunter Bryant, Hopkins has the size to put some muscle on and I have more faith in him growing into that role. I am not down on Hunter Bryant. He can turn into a Jordan Reed type. I don't think he's as a good as him but Bryant is a good receiver. I am just looking for a more well rounded TE. Hopkins IMO isn't a well rounded TE, yet but he might develop into it. hopkins.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 8 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said: But even if you told me we could have Simmons + 18 + 37 I’m not sure I would take that I would take that in a heartbeat, Simmons could be as good or better than Young in the pros, seems to have a good demeanour and you get 18 and 37, sign me up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757SeanTaylor21 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 13 minutes ago, ggarriso said: I would take that in a heartbeat, Simmons could be as good or better than Young in the pros, seems to have a good demeanour and you get 18 and 37, sign me up Or he could be worse...and 18 and 37 can flop while chase young goes to the pro bowl...and becomes all pro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommandB11 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 15 minutes ago, ggarriso said: I would take that in a heartbeat, Simmons could be as good or better than Young in the pros, seems to have a good demeanour and you get 18 and 37, sign me up I think Simmons is Jabrill Peppers 2.0. Decent player but not a game changer. Chase Young looks like Julius Peppers. Career Pro bowler. I would never take Jabrill over Julius. Ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, panahoo said: I think Simmons is Jabrill Peppers 2.0. Decent player but not a game changer. Chase Young looks like Julius Peppers. Career Pro bowler. I would never take Jabrill over Julius. Ever. Simmons is 6' 3" 230, Jabrill Peppers is 5'11" 215. Simmons can still play on the LOS while Jabrill cannot. I dont see the comp there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.