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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

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1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't watch a lot of college football other than Maryland and he sat out that game.  So this was my first look at Chase Young.  Guy looks like a safety, I have never seen a smaller 265 in my life.  Is he really a defensive end?  

 

 

I can't find the tweets but a couple draft guys were discussing the versatility and situational stuff with him in the ability to play him at 3 positions - LB, DE or safety.

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8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Win or lose, Okudah was dominant tonight.  The second best player on the field after Lawrence tonight.  I was hoping to see more of both him and Chase Young next round, but if they can't come back from this deficit, we've seen enough to know those guys are studs.  Okudah is a no-brainer top five talent.  He deserves to be the fourth guy off the board.

Agreed, Okudah was incredible and confirmed he is top 5! To me he is the safest pick after Burrow with Young right after him.

 

My favorite Young play was when he caught (I believe) Etienne from behind 12 yards down field. He had a really good game and Clemson had a great game plan around him.

 

Wades ejection was the turning point in the game. That draws me to look at him more heading towards the draft.

 

Simmons had a great second half which thrilled me. Dude can play multiple positions well and was huge at Safety. 

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34 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

I can't find the tweets but a couple draft guys were discussing the versatility and situational stuff with him in the ability to play him at 3 positions - LB, DE or safety.

 

I hadn't heard that, thanks.  I was shocked last night.  I expected a guy that looked like a Bosa, looked like a defensive end.  Chase looked nothing like that, he looked like a safety.  Then i saw 2 different players for Ohio State wearing the number 2.  WTF is that?   The entire game was terribly confusing for a hack like me.  

Edited by Darrell Green Fan
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15 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I hadn't heard that, thanks.  I was shocked last night.  I expected a guy that looked like a Bosa, looked like a defensive end.  Chase looked nothing like that, he looked like a safety.  Then i saw 2 different players for Ohio State wearing the number 2.  WTF is that?   The entire game was terribly confusing for a hack like me.  

RB J K Dobbins also wears #2

He is 5'10" 216 lbs

Edited by DWinzit

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With all the hype, if he comes out (he will) the Redskins organization does not have the inner gumption not to take him.  I have seen film breakdown that looks amazing, but I just haven't seen it in a the limited time I have seen in play live (on TV).  He is a freak athlete that will do amazing at the combine.  He may turn out to be everything the hype says, but I think he is going to need some good coaching and a loving motivational push to get here.  Hope we have the guys to do it.

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19 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I hadn't heard that, thanks.  I was shocked last night.  I expected a guy that looked like a Bosa, looked like a defensive end.  Chase looked nothing like that, he looked like a safety.  Then i saw 2 different players for Ohio State wearing the number 2.  WTF is that?   The entire game was terribly confusing for a hack like me.  

 

 

Top schools have we more than 100 players.  The only rule is both players with the same number cannot be on the field at the same time. 

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6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm very very meh on Thomas as a top 5 pick. IMO he isn't even a top 10 pick. I've watched his games more closely recently and while he has some nice technique in pass pro he has problems finishing, especially in the run game. He also seems to lack any sort of mean streak. I think in a stronger OT class he'd be a late 1st. Whirfs is pretty good but he also mostly played on the right side IIRC. Will he be able to transition and excel as a LT in the NFL with much better pass rushers? Nice size and athleticism but some question marks. 

 

If we took Thomas at 2 or traded down a couple spots and took him I think it would be a HUGE reach and we'd be passing on a game changer in Young. I think he'll end up being a decent OT but nothing special. 

Sadly none of the OL prospects are legit top 5 type talent. IMO whoever drafts Whirfs needs to keep him on the right side. At this point he would be a great luxury pick around 8-10 for the the Redskins. There are too many bigger needs right now than a RT. 

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I don't like this term generational talent.  It puts vague and unfair expectations on players.  What we're really talking about are guys who are among the best prospects at their positions in like five year windows, not generations, and they're not alone in their quality.

 

DeShaun Watson was a "generational talent" but he went outside of the top ten as a QB and Mayfield, Mahomes, Murray, Wentz, Luck, Wilson, Jackson, and RGIII were as good of prospects as him.  Burrow and Tua are too.

 

if I grade players again this year, I'm going to give Young like a 7.2.  That is a great score for a non QB as it's a little better than I graded Bosa, Oliver, Josh Allen, and Quinnen Williams last year.  He's better than them IMO, but the difference isn't massive.  I'm also going to give Okudah and Jeudy a 7.0 and Lamb and Simmons will probably get a 6.9.  Tua and Burrow are probably going to be 7.2s too, which is what I graded Kyler Murray.  There isn't that big a difference in the quality of these top prospects as people make it seem.  The real difference in value comes from QB vs non QB.  A 6.5 QB >>> a 7.0 non QB.

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Saw Chase slip several times last night.  

The field was bad and I believe he did not want to go with a longer cleat. 

Maybe we find out about that down the road. 

 

I would still draft Chase Young in a heartbeat. 

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9 hours ago, evmiii said:

I'm not an expert and I didn't stay at a holiday in last night, but I've seen Chase play 2 games (Michigan and Clemson) and for the most part he was not a factor.  Tonight I saw a bunch of plays with a pathetic level of effort.  I understand they are chipping and doubling some, but I saw a bunch of times he could not beat the tackle one on one.  Great against lesser opponents; disappears against the better teams.  Everybody's better in the NFL.  I don't see either Bosa brother when I see him; he doesn't have the motor.  I hope he decides to stay in school and pursue a National Championship so we don't draft him #2.  If he turns out to be what McShay says I'll admit I'm wrong; but I don't see it.

I dont know what you saw. But I saw a guy that forced Clemson to completely change their normal game plan to account for him. Lawrence was brilliant. On every passing down he either got rid of the ball immediately or he ran to the opposite side of the field away from Young. It was a great game plan. As Young constantly beat his man when in one on one. Take the 2 point conversion as an example. Young immediately mauls his blocker and is on Lawrence within one second tops. Lawrence runs to the right and makes an incredible play for the completion. You have to give the other side credit as well. And by the way because Clemson changed their game plan their offensive output last night was roughly 2/3 of their normal output. Lawrence was held to 259 yards passing. Where he killed Ohio State was with his feet. He had 107 yards rushing by running away from Chase Young.

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Well I am under the assumption that the job of a pass rusher is to pressure the QB and at best sak the QB. After watching 3 of the  CY games I came to the conclusion that he is a real good prospect but at this time he is not L Taylor or anything close. I still have not seen him get a sak and yes he has great stats but were they against elite competition? If you guys remember Taylor he never gave up on a play and he played with fire and determination. I just do not see that in CY yet. Looks to me like the type of guy that up until now could dominate just with his physical adility but now, in the big games, where teams are going to put good players against you, he struggles as he has not developed any moves or a technique where he can beat double teams other than bull rushing. In his defense I did not see his team move him at the snap or do any stunting but I could be wrong.  Time will tell and I do think he is a great prospect and if we do not have any offers I would not mind if we take him but if I could get 3 high # 1's for our #2 spot I would trade it in a heartbeat, instead of taking CY. 2 #1's and I would be thinking about it. I would rather have Joe Barrow though. Maybe we could talk the QB from Clem to forget about school and take him with our #2 pick, assuming we get it that is. 

 

Edited by 50yrSKINSfan
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2 hours ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

Trade down. I like Chase young a lot but the motor was my issue. On Clemson last drive, Lawrence took off and Young jogged behind him. This is the biggest moment and that’s the effort he gives. Also multiple times like the 2 point conversion Lawrence was able to get around him. That should not happen with generational talent. I’m not bashing him at all but I do not see a franchise changer. 

 

Just so I understand you, you want to pass on what pretty much every analyst and scout has said is possibly the best pass rushing prospect in the last 10 years because you saw him not catch a QB on a run on a couple plays? That two point conversion was brilliantly played by Lawrence. Clemson had obviously completely game planned around Young and Lawrence is also a generational type talent with tons of weapons. 

 

4 minutes ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

Well I am under the assumption that the job of a pass rusher is to pressure the QB and at best sak the QB. After watching 3 of the  CY games I came to the conclusion that he is a real good prospect but at this time he is not L Taylor or anything close. I still have not seen him get a sak and yes he has great stats but were they against elite competition? If you guys remember Taylor he never gave up on a play and he played with fire and determination. I just do not see that in CY yet. Looks to me like the type of guy that up until now could dominate just with his physical adility but now, in the big games, where teams are going to put good players against you, he struggles as he has not developed any moves or a technique where he can beat double teams other than bull rushing. In his defense I did not see his team move him at the snap or do any stunting but I could be wrong.  Time will tell and I do think he is a great prospect and if we do not have any offers I would not mind if we take him but if I could get 3 high # 1's for our #2 spot I would trade it in a heartbeat, instead of taking CY. 2 #1's and I would be thinking about it. I would rather have Joe Barrow though.

 

 

Much of this is literally the opposite of what analysts and scouts have said about him. His best games were against top 10 teams (Wisconsin and PSU). As far as him only dominating with physical ability and not having the moves or technique to beat double teams...what? One of the things that is almost universally said about him and one reason he's such a ridiculous prospect is because of all the technique and moves he has to go along with this crazy athletic ability and speed/size combo.

 

He's been beating double teams all year long with multiple different techniques (as basically every single team who has a coach with an IQ higher than his shoe size has game planned for Young and doubled/chipped him). I've watched every single cutup I can find of his games multiple times and while his technique can be improved (as any player's can), his is very refined for a college guy. I especially like his hand use and how he varies his rush very quickly depending on what the OT is doing. He's definitely not a one trick pony. Bosa was one of the more refined pass rushers to come out recently and IMO Chase Young is just as refined but is more explosive and has looser hips for bending the edge which is pretty scary for a 6'5 265-270 lb guy. Usually guys that size are more speed to power guys since with the weight they lose some flexibility but it just doesn't seem to be the case with Young.

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3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I don't watch a lot of college football other than Maryland and he sat out that game.  So this was my first look at Chase Young.  Guy looks like a safety, I have never seen a smaller 265 in my life.  Is he really a defensive end?  

 

 

 

I think part of it is because he has so little fat for a guy that big. One of his teammates was asked about him and was talking about how he's just a complete freak of nature. Said he's like 6'5 270 with a six pack. 

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Keep in mind, Lawrence had a 50% completion rate until the last drive. Seems like he ended up with around 54% completion rate.  That's really not a good statistical day for a QB. Now, he did rush for 100+ yard rushing.  Ultimately, all QB's need to throw well.

 So for most of the game, the Ohio defense did its job. If you look at the stats, the Ohio State offense had better stats with close to 500 yards of offense vs 400.  

So yes, Clemson gameplanned for Chase Young, but statistically Clemson wasn't having a field day. Now, what if they relied on longer plays?  Would have been a disaster.  Young was close so many times even with these dink and dunk passes.

I think he will change our defense dramatically like Von Miller changed Denver. We have, what a bottom tier D right now? 

I also don't think Burrow or Lawrence will be better than Haskins.  There is no guarantee that will happen. Most QB's end up being busts.  The way Haskins is playing right now, it will be hard for Burrow or Lawrence to match that.

Every year people have these can't miss QB prospects.  They all end up being busts.

The problem with Burrow is that he had a 6th round grade last year. Furthermore, his armstrength is a concern. So he could easily be a bust.  From what I recall, RG3 wasn't seen as a first-round prospect until his final year.

Right now, it appears that we have a surefire thing in Haskins based on how he was dominating the Giants.  So if the Bengals don't draft Burrow, and draft Young instead, we should flat out trade down.

 

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Okudah benefited  from the quick passing and outside running game Clemson executed last night.  He got to play a ton of bump and run coverage with insideleverage, which he excels at.  And he got to play downhill against the outside run.  He got to feature his strengths on a big stage.  I wish Higgins hadn't gotten hurt.  I wanted to see Okudah matched up with the full strength version of him because that could have been an epic battle.  I also kind of wish we'd gotten to see Okudah matched up on Jamar Chase.

 

 

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2 hours ago, OtisDriftwood25 said:

Trade down. I like Chase young a lot but the motor was my issue. On Clemson last drive, Lawrence took off and Young jogged behind him. This is the biggest moment and that’s the effort he gives. Also multiple times like the 2 point conversion Lawrence was able to get around him. That should not happen with generational talent. I’m not bashing him at all but I do not see a franchise changer. 

Would you pass on Khalil Mack? Then why pass on chase young? 

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14 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

 

You are a month late on this hot take.

Point’s not clearly made: a. Haskins is not our future......B. Chase Young is good but not as big an impact as Burrow. So many of our faithful are dying to get Young when we should be hoping for a QB.

Edited by Doctorfro
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2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Okudah benefited  from the quick passing and outside running game Clemson executed last night.  He got to play a ton of bump and run coverage with insideleverage, which he excels at.  And he got to play downhill against the outside run.  He got to feature his strengths on a big stage.  I wish Higgins hadn't gotten hurt.  I wanted to see Okudah matched up with the full strength version of him because that could have been an epic battle.  I also kind of wish we'd gotten to see Okudah matched up on Jamar Chase.

 

 

Okudah really helped himself last night. No doubt about that. A few weeks ago I was posting in here about him being a great target if we could trade down into the 10-14 range. That aint happening anymore. Okudah is going top ten guaranteed now.

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2 minutes ago, Doctorfro said:

Point’s not clearly made: a. Haskins is not our future......B. Chase Young is good but not as big an impact as Burrow

 

How do you know that Haskins is not our future?  Did you watch our team against the Giants and the Eagles?  And how exactly do you know that Burrow will be better than Haskins?  You don't.  We already have a bird in the hand in Haskins who is looking like an NFL player.  Now whether he keeps improving is something we don't know yet.

Burrow is just a prospect, and that's it.  He could easily be  a bust given that he was a  late round prospect only last year.

The league has only a few eiite QB's. Most end up being busts.  

 

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7 minutes ago, Doctorfro said:

Look at what you said....versus Giants and Eagles. They suck.

He did better than Dakk did against the Eagles.  He also did better than Kirk against Green Bay.

So the question ultimately is, how does anybody know that Burrow will be better than Haskins?  He is just a college player.  Haskins is showing things in the pro.

Edited by redskins59
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If any of the main posters in here want to break down the top 10 or so RBs and WRs (each) in this draft, I'd be very grateful.  I play some high stakes dynasty leagues and have a ton of draft picks this year on purpose.  Absolutely love the class and would welcome opinions on sifting out the top guys.

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I don't like this term generational talent.  It puts vague and unfair expectations on players.  What we're really talking about are guys who are among the best prospects at their positions in like five year windows, not generations, and they're not alone in their quality.

 

DeShaun Watson was a "generational talent" but he went outside of the top ten as a QB and Mayfield, Mahomes, Murray, Wentz, Luck, Wilson, Jackson, and RGIII were as good of prospects as him.  Burrow and Tua are too.

 

if I grade players again this year, I'm going to give Young like a 7.2.  That is a great score for a non QB as it's a little better than I graded Bosa, Oliver, Josh Allen, and Quinnen Williams last year.  He's better than them IMO, but the difference isn't massive.  I'm also going to give Okudah and Jeudy a 7.0 and Lamb and Simmons will probably get a 6.9.  Tua and Burrow are probably going to be 7.2s too, which is what I graded Kyler Murray.  There isn't that big a difference in the quality of these top prospects as people make it seem.  The real difference in value comes from QB vs non QB.  A 6.5 QB >>> a 7.0 non QB.

 

In regards to the term generational talent--we are using it but its premature.  Chase Young is simply somebody who could potentially be a generational talent.  I definitely got the feel from this thread that they hype is out of hand.  Young played a pretty solid game last night, but people were down on him because they expect something amazing every game.  And that is just not realistic especially when the other team is gameplanning to defend you.  Lebron James is Lebron James over the course of a season.  Over an 82 game season, even in his prime he only had a few 50+ games.  His consistency, his ability to contribute in multiple ways, all made him the best player of his era.  That said somebody who might not follow the NBA that closely could watch one of his game games where he went for 19 points, 7 rebounds, and 3 assists and easily say he was overrated.  I think the people who follow college football the most realize how special Chase Young is.  The people who only follow for a few games expect a "50+ point game" for the one game they watch and the odds are that is not going to happen.  Young is the best college pashrusher of the past 20 years and is solid against the run. He did that over the course of a 14 game season (though he only played in 12 games)

 

 I do agree with you that QB are worth more than DE's and that they may end up being more valuable than Young, but I don't see them in the same category as Young.

 

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1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

if I grade players again this year, I'm going to give Young like a 7.2.  That is a great score for a non QB as it's a little better than I graded Bosa, Oliver, Josh Allen, and Quinnen Williams last year.  He's better than them IMO, but the difference isn't massive.  I'm also going to give Okudah and Jeudy a 7.0 and Lamb and Simmons will probably get a 6.9.  Tua and Burrow are probably going to be 7.2s too, which is what I graded Kyler Murray.  There isn't that big a difference in the quality of these top prospects as people make it seem.  The real difference in value comes from QB vs non QB.  A 6.5 QB >>> a 7.0 non QB.

 

If Young ends up Bosa or Josh Allen, he's a great pick IMO.  Young has had some games including yesterday where he looked mortal though I think he played well last night even though he didn't have a sack (he threatened Lawrence a number of times and pushed the pocket even from the inside at times) -- Young has also had plenty of games where he's looked insane.

 

I am sticking to taking Young at #2.  But I'd consider a haul if lets say Miami offered two of their two firsts and a 2nd rounder, I'd take it if it were their 2 high round firsts.  Yeah Okudah looked great last night.  Love Simmons, Lamb, Jeudy.   Clearly we also need a LT.

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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