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2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread


zCommander

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25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If Del Rio plays 4-3 underfront as some say he prefers, you'd have the OLB play close to the line of scrimmage so it would ironically have a similar look to a 3-4 at times.  If they kept Kerrigan, he Young, Sweat can interchange at OLB in some fronts.   That's what Del Rio did at times with Von Miller. 

 

So at OLB that can probably platoon-rotate some players.  75% or so of the game is nickel now so you'd often only have two linebackers on the field most of the time anyway.    

 

 

Still need two backers... and our backers this past season were not good at playing downhill and nickel and it would be the same guys. 
 

Maybe they’ll get coached up and be something really special. 
 

I have my reservations. 
 

Also, Simmons can play in nickel sets in various means. So he’d be on the field. But honestly, regardless of Simmons, who we’re not going to get, this team needs outside linebackers. Badly. Reuben Foster cannot be relied upon and I’m not confident the guys we had last year are going to improve enough. 
 

15 minutes ago, volsmet said:


Is infinity + 1 > than infinity?
 


Yes. By 1. :ols:

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18 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Somebody fancy pitching in with some quick predictions on which round lot could most likely fall....

 

Jordan Brooks LB Texas Tech

Brycen Hopkins TE Purdue

KJ Hill WR Ohio State

Kyle Dugger S Lenior-Rhyne

Javaris Davis, Auburn CB

 

 


 
This site has Davis undrafted:
 

 

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5 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Given 1) the metrics posted about our pass rush stats vs coverage stats and 2) having an up-and-coming rusher in Sweat along with Kerrigan/Anderson (and the dline - which all ties into point 1 of course), I think another wild card would be trading back for Okudah.  
 

So, say we trade back with Detroit (cost may be a bit less than the Chicago trade since they’re not going for a qb).  We take their 1st, 2nd and a 3rd or future 2nd/3rd.  Bidding war with Miami and Oakland for Tua/Herbert (maybe another team in the mix?), we take Miami’s offer, get 5, one of their other 1sts and maybe a future pick or a day 2 pick.  
 

Obviously the Giants could take Okudah, but if they go with Simmons or OL, we take Okudah - a huge help to our secondary, which in turn helps our pass rush - recoup our missing 2nd rounder, maybe land a starting caliber tackle with the other 1st rounder, and add a couple 3rd rounders or future picks.  
 

 

Again, I get it with Young and I think it’s about as close to a slam dunk pick as you get... just running through other possibilities here.  The idea of seriously improving our secondary, a starting tackle to help Haskins and the run game, plus multiple 2nd-3rd rounders would have to be tempting though.  Especially considering we already have a strong pass rush with pretty strong potential for improvement - Sweat developing and our scheme allowing the dlinemen to be even more disruptive.
 

The bottom line for me will be how FA pans out for us.  If we go into the draft with a hole at LT, G (maybe x2), and don’t land a starting caliber corner... I have trouble seeing Chase Young having the same impact a trade down does.  A trade down that could address corner, T, G, and perhaps more (and/or future picks).  

 

FA will tell us a lot including whether or not the Giants are likely to go OT w/that pick. If they don't sign anyone, to me, that's a huge smoke signal they're gonna give their young QB another lineman rather than their defense the best player left on the board.

 

As for the ongoing back and forth about Simmons and Young. It's a very interesting debate, but to me, at the end of the day, you need to look at FA cost, draft capital efficacy, and determine what's the smartest use of your available $$$. In '18 I felt the smartest use was Derwin James and totally lost my ---- when I felt we panic picked D. Payne. That was more about James being a potential franchise changing talent in the secondary, a guy who was a tier 1 prospect in that class while Payne wasn't remotely close to that. I remain irate about that pick. But when you've got a situation like this, w/players w/analogous overall talent, Young actually a touch better probably, and you know that guys like Young, if they prove out, are worth an insane amount of money in FA, and are virtually impossible to acquire via the draft w/o having been utterly god awful during a season, you pretty much have to make the pick.

 

The only thing that gives me pause is my concern that we are automatically going to lose one-three key pieces of the front seven that will be in place when Young arrives before he even starts the third year of his contract. Kerrigan is gone this offseason or next, and one of Allen or Payne will be gone thereafter, maybe even both. You can only spend so much money on your DL and edge rushers. Does it make more cap sense to trade down, collect some nice picks, and hope Simmons falls in our lap? Is it worth that kind of risk? 

 

Simmons and keep at least 2 and possibly all 3 of our DL's? Or Young, and lose 2 or 3 of Kerrigan-Ionaiddis-Allen-Payne? Add in the fact that if we tried to trade down and get Simmons (and got him) we'd also be adding key draft pieces either this year, or this year and next to help us w/a potential QB trade up.

 

I'm 1000% convinced we'll just bring our "Chase Young" card straight up on draft day. But, if you dig deeper, I can see plenty of reasons why we shouldn't, and they have little to do with whose better, Simmons or Young, and everything to do with the rest of the defense and the long term rebuild itself. 

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I don't think some here realize how fortunate we are to be in the driver's seat to draft Young. 

 

From a 49ers forum 😂:

 

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WOULD you all trade Buckner and Ford for the right to draft CHASE and say a 3rd rounder?

 

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Yes

 

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In a heart beat. We get a lot of gang pressure, but if we don't address our edge in the off-season we might be in for a reality check next year. Outside of Bosa, we don't have a pure edge rusher. Ford is good, but he's made of glass.

 

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We'd have to give buckner, Ford,our 1st rounder, and next year's first rounder for a chance at chase
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I'd do that but second rounder next year instead
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I probably would too.

 

 

 

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Hell yea. All the savings in cap space would allow us to sign some big time players in free agency to fill the void

 

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They wouldn't even answer the phone unless you started with Bosa!

 

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Anyone in their right mind would do it in a heartbeat. It's a lot easier to find good interior DLs than pure Pass Rushers in the league.

 

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2 hours ago, volsmet said:


I’ve flirted with that line more often than I care to admit. 😕 Though I must admit it’s the appeal of being a contrarian that turns me on as much as the play. 

 

 

I think the Simmons play is to me is so much the draft geek hipster play on twitter that it almost feels unhip to me.  😀     I think the contrarian move would be someone aside from Simmons.   

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think the Simmons play is to me is so much the draft geek hipster play on twitter that it almost feels unhip to me.  😀     I think the contrarian move would be someone aside from Simmons.   


Indeed, but that was not the case when I started my Simmons movement, he was in nobodies top 10 back in Sept/Oct, but now it’s trendy, it’s becoming unbearable.

 

On 10/7/2019 at 10:56 PM, volsmet said:

Foster, Collins, Young, Sweat, Payne, Allen, Settle, Kerrigan & Ion would give us a nice group ... if I could add Simmons from Clemson, I’m doing that as well. Simmons would be among my top 5 overall right now.

 

Tua

Young

Simmons

Jeudy

Thomas

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We are going to be debating Young vs the trade back option for almost 4 months and the scenario's may get crazy....Just wait til the combine risers start to surface and the rumors of QB's shooting up the draft board become real. This is gonna get nuts. 

If RGlll commanded three 1sts why can't we expect a QB needy team like Miami, Chargers, Raiders or someone else offer something similar to us? Our mgmt team better be ready to make some hard decisions because they might get hit with some crazy offers. Are 3 1st round picks and two 2nd a better option than Chase Young?????

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5 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

We are going to be debating Young vs the trade back option for almost 4 months and the scenario's may get crazy....Just wait til the combine risers start to surface and the rumors of QB's shooting up the draft board become real. This is gonna get nuts. 

If RGlll commanded three 1sts why can't we expect a QB needy team like Miami, Chargers, Raiders or someone else offer something similar to us? Our mgmt team better be ready to make some hard decisions because they might get hit with some crazy offers. Are 3 1st round picks and two 2nd a better option than Chase Young?????


If Tua was healthy, we’d be able to get something brobdignagian. 😕

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1 hour ago, volsmet said:


Indeed, but that was not the case when I started my Simmons movement, he was in nobodies top 10 back in Sept/Oct, but now it’s trendy, it’s becoming unbearable.

 

 

 

You started the movement.  But now it's so cool its uncool. 😀  Unbearable at times, I agree especially on twitter.    I was reading last night C. Banks try to calm down Giant fans about losing out on Chase and he started touting Simmons, etc.  It's too much for me.  😀

 

I wasn't as early in on Simmons like you were.  But I was early relatively speaking.   And like you I loved Derwin James and I am a big fan of defenders who can do it all, Swiss army knife types.  But the Derwin hype didn't match the heights of the Simmons stuff.  

 

I thought I was going chic in a minor way months back with liking Lamb over Jeudy.  Stevemcqueen was on that one, too.  But that one isn't really cool anymore.  Seems to be plenty of mocks putting Lamb ahead of Jeudy.

 

I see Brugler keeps pushing Willis is the better LT prospect over Thomas and he enjoys throwing that everywhere and now he's making some converts with the other draft greeks on it.  

 

I am a big Chase guy, but who isn't.  I need to find my thing in this draft.   I'll come up with an angle.  😀  

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OK so PFF sees him at least statistically as a coverage guy.  So do I.  And if I recall ditto SteveMcQueen. But we seem to be in the minority. 

 

I was watching the dude almost every snap when I was at the Citrus Bowl so I think I have a good feel for him.  Yet almost every draft geek including Brugler labels him as more of a box safety who needs to improve in coverage.  I don't get what they are seeing?  To me its absolutely the opposite -- good cover guy who needs to improve against the run and add some bulk to handle the bigger RBs-Wrs.

 

If we end up trading down, I am big on McKinney (early 2nd range) but I'd like to see him put on 10 pounds or so of muscle.  

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-under-the-radar-sleepers-prospects-2020

S XAVIER MCKINNEY, ALABAMA

On 1,848 snaps in three seasons at Alabama, McKinney has proven that there’s not much on the football field he can’t do. He’s earned grades of 84.7 in run defense, 90.9 as a pass-rusher, and 91.2 in coverage for his career. The true junior is as well-rounded a safety as exists in this draft class and has only been getting better. He’s not only graded out exceptionally well in both seasons as a starter, but McKinney has actually improved his grade in every facet from 2018 to 2019.

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31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You started the movement.  But now it's so cool its uncool. 😀  Unbearable at times, I agree especially on twitter.    I was reading last night C. Banks try to calm down Giant fans about losing out on Chase and he started touting Simmons, etc.  It's too much for me.  😀

 

I wasn't as early in on Simmons like you were.  But I was early relatively speaking.   And like you I loved Derwin James and I am a big fan of defenders who can do it all, Swiss army knife types.  But the Derwin hype didn't match the heights of the Simmons stuff.  

 

I thought I was going chic in a minor way months back with liking Lamb over Jeudy.  Stevemcqueen was on that one, too.  But that one isn't really cool anymore.  Seems to be plenty of mocks putting Lamb ahead of Jeudy.

 

I see Brugler keeps pushing Willis is the better LT prospect over Thomas and he enjoys throwing that everywhere and now he's making some converts with the other draft greeks on it.  

 

I am a big Chase guy, but who isn't.  I need to find my thing in this draft.   I'll come up with an angle.  

 

The draft I just looked at had Lamb over Jeudy & it surprised me quite a bit. I haven’t watched Lamb, but Jeudy is far and away the best WR prospect I’ve seen in years...which means, he’ll be a slightly lesser version of Mack Hollins. 😕

 

Wirfs, Simmons, Chase, Jeudy have all lost their appeal, everyone is crushing hard on those guys, but I’m going to work on convincing the world that I’m the lone Tua truther remaining. If he busts its injury related, if he’s a stud I’m a bold genius that stood by the guy everyone knew was amazing. 🤨

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

good cover guy who needs to improve against the run

S XAVIER MCKINNEY, ALABAMA

On 1,848 snaps in three seasons at Alabama, McKinney has proven that there’s not much on the football field he can’t do. He’s earned grades of 84.7 in run defense, 90.9 as a pass-rusher, and 91.2 in coverage for his career. The true junior is as well-rounded a safety as exists in this draft class and has only been getting better. He’s not only graded out exceptionally well in both seasons as a starter, but McKinney has actually improved his grade in every facet from 2018 to 2019.


 

Ooof
 

 

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10 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

The draft I just looked at had Lamb over Jeudy & it surprised me quite a bit. I haven’t watched Lamb, but Jeudy is far and away the best WR prospect I’ve seen in years...

 

I love Jeudy, heck Jeudy's long touchdown that Alabama opened with in the Citrus Bowl happened within good view of my seats at the stadium so it was fun to see him kill it that day.  I am big on Jeudy.  I am just slightly bigger on Lamb -- IMO better hands, better contested catch guy, better run blocker, better YAC guy in open field.  I think both will be great, though.

 

10 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Wirfs, Simmons, Chase, Jeudy have all lost their appeal, everyone is crushing hard on those guys, but I’m going to work on convincing the world that I’m the lone Tua truther remaining. If he busts its injury related, if he’s a stud I’m a bold genius that stood by the guy everyone knew was amazing. 🤨

 

Yeah agree.  I am pumping up Chase plenty but some of that is I would bet that's who they take and won't trade down -- so I am trying to keep myself jazzed. And its not hard to stay jazzed about Chase.

 

As for Tua, yeah as I told you earlier today i am one of the few people who would be jazzed if we took him at #2.  That's not because i am down on Haskins.  but I simply think Tua is better.  His health though to me is a big wildcard.   I got no idea what's cooking on that front.   And I think there is zero chance the Redskins draft him.

 

i haven't really dived in to many prospects, yet.  Last year I probably did give or take 35 players that I watched closely.  I think I am at about 6 now.  I got a long way to go. 

 

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New PFF mock I just found.  They really love Fulton.  I like him but don't love him the way they do.  Heck Clemson went out of their way to target him last night.  I wonder if he lands in the first round let alone goes top 10.  I might like him in the 2nd.  though I only watched 2 games of his so i might change my mind.

 

https://www.pff.com/news/draft-under-the-radar-sleepers-prospects-2020

 

. CINCINNATI BENGALS — QB JOE BURROW, LSU

The Bengals are the lucky owners of the Burrow lottery ticket. ‘Tank for Tua’ gave way to ‘Bomb for Burrow’ well before Tagovailoa was injured. Burrow is in a stratosphere of his own as a prospect after finishing off the highest-graded quarterback season we’ve ever seen. He added five more big-time throws in the National Championship to bring his total to an FBS-leading 42 on the season.

 

2. WASHINGTON REDSKINS — EDGE CHASE YOUNG, OHIO STATE

While Burrow broke our passing record, Young broke our pass-rushing record. He’s as complete an edge-defender prospect as we’ve ever seen in our six years of grading college football. No need to overthink this one.

 

3. DETROIT LIONS — CB JEFFREY OKUDAH, OHIO STATE

These top three picks are set in stone for any future GM mock until we start incorporating trades. Okudah passed his final collegiate test with flying colors against Clemson's pair of NFL wide receivers. He was targeted 10 times in the playoff semifinals and allowed only five catches for 47 yards while breaking up two passes. Put him across from Darius Slay, and watch your pass defense transform overnight.

 

4. NEW YORK GIANTS — WR CEEDEE LAMB, OKLAHOMA

The Giants' offense is currently chock full of complementary wideouts, but no there's no true number one. While it’s a loaded wide receiver class, chances are you won't find that No. 1 receiver on the wrap in the second round. Insert CeeDee Lamb, the do-it-all receiver who broke 26 tackles on 62 receptions this season. It’s not like the Sooners were only pumping him screens, either. Lamb’s average depth of target was 13.2 yards downfield this year.

 

5. MIAMI DOLPHINS — QB TUA TAGOVAILOA, ALABAMA

Tua will have an asterisk next to his name all offseason, but with his injury timeline, we should know by draft day whether further complications have arisen that could put his career in jeopardy. Assuming full health, Tagovailoa did nothing to dissuade us from our preseason opinion that he’s a franchise quarterback prospect with a 90.3 passing grade.

 

6. LOS ANGELES CHARGERS — LB ISAIAH SIMMONS, CLEMSON

Simmons seemed like the only Clemson defender who showed up in the National Championship game, as he broke up two passes and allowed only 21 yards on five targets. While the Chargers have offensive line needs, pairing Simmons with Derwin James is too dynamic a duo for us to pass up. Their versatility can revolutionize what an NFL defense should look like.

 

7. CAROLINA PANTHERS — OT ANDREW THOMAS, GEORGIA

While it’s not a sexy pick, Thomas will go a long way to ensuring Cam Newton stays healthy should he be the starter next season. Greg Little showed some promise as a rookie, but they can’t let the line dip to the lows we saw from it last season. Thomas has allowed only 37 pressures in three years as a starter.

 

8. ARIZONA CARDINALS — OT JEDRICK WILLS JR., ALABAMA

No offensive tackle shot up draft boards more this season than Wills. He allowed only four pressures in his last six games against some stiff SEC competition. He’s also without a doubt the most athletic tackle in the class and would be perfect in Arizona’s screen game.

 

9. JACKSONVILLE JAGUARS — CB KRISTIAN FULTON, LSU

The National Championship was by no means a banner performance from Fulton, but you heard his name called a lot because Clemson picked on him a lot. He still allowed only 5-of-11 targets to be caught for 66 yards and two first downs. His NFL comparison in the upcoming PFF Draft Guide is actually A.J. Bouye, and I’m sure Jaguars fans would love to have him cloned.

 

10. CLEVELAND BROWNS — OT TRISTAN WIRFS, IOWA

Wirfs quietly dominated unlike any other offensive lineman in the country down the stretch this past season. He allowed one lone pressure in his final seven games. He also earned one of the top run-blocking grades in the country (89.2).

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