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Would you want HBO Hard Knocks to feature us this year?

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I think we need a reality tv show about the posters of the ES, an inside look into how @mistertim and @Califan007 operate & how @Skinsinparadise gets to tweets so quickly.... maybe even an inside look at the mods war room as they discuss their process of keeping the actions of the constituency within the confines of the EX Constitution.

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I made this point on the Dan thread but its relevant here too.   IMO for the first time in Dan's tenure the brand is in danger.  In the past they can lose but people would keep coming back.  This team was discussed nationally and had some sex appeal.  

 

I think drafting Haskins helps recover some of it but Hard Knocks IMO would add some more zest to the team as to being nationally relevant.

 

For me its all about winning but i admit it bothers me when national shows are picking on the Redskins along with the Titans as a team that no national fan gives a hoot about that's why they prefer to talk about teams that drive their ratings because fans find them relevant. 

 

I'd never think I'd say this but I did take for granted that for all the faults under Dan's tenure -- the team still can draw a crowd to their games, drive TV ratings, and sell jerseys.  Those days seem dead for now.    Naturally, winning is the most important thing to me, though.  But I do enjoy a little hype, too.   

 

I recall reading a book from an ex-Giants GM years back who cited how he attended a Redskins-Giants game where the Redskins had nothing at stake yet the crowd was packed and were passionate.  He cited the Redskins having the best fans in the East.  That was about 10 years or so ago.   It's sort of sad to me that those days seem to be gone for now.  Not that Hard Knocks fixes all of that but I do think it will feed off of the momentum of the Haskins drill. 

 

Being featured on Hard Knocks and laying an egg in 2019 would drive away even more fans because it would look like Snyder was focused on creating and monetizing a media soap opera rather than intent on building a serious football team to compete for championships.  The only way to rejuvenate the fanbase is to elevate the performance of the team.   I usually agree with you but I think you are off the mark this time.

7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I think we need a reality tv show about the posters of the ES, an inside look into how @mistertim and @Califan007 operate & how @Skinsinparadise gets to tweets so quickly.... maybe even an inside look at the mods war room as they discuss their process of keeping the actions of the constituency within the confines of the EX Constitution.

 

Can we add some attractive women to the cast so in case the plot gets as boring as last year's offense we'll have something to watch?

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6 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Can we add some attractive women to the cast so in case the plot gets as boring as last year's offense we'll have something to watch?

 

I’d ask my gf to be on the program, but I haven’t seen her since @Anselmheifer told me he would pick her up from hooters. That was December. 

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Are they going to tell us already or not? I’m fine either way at this point.

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41 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Being featured on Hard Knocks and laying an egg in 2019 would drive away even more fans because it would look like Snyder was focused on creating and monetizing a media soap opera rather than intent on building a serious football team to compete for championships.

You say this as if fans leaving in droves during a bad season is a bad thing. The state of our franchise is well past the "man it sucked this year, but I'm gonna sit through it anyway and hope it gets better" stage. That was 5 years ago. Last year was a taste of what irrelevance is like, and from the view of people who think the team needs to go nuclear to burn the trash away, that irrelevance tasted good. It hurt. It hurt us, and more importantly, it hurt the ownership. They need to feel pain to know they need to do better.

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52 minutes ago, volsmet said:

I think we need a reality tv show about the posters of the ES, an inside look into how @mistertim and @Califan007 operate & how @Skinsinparadise gets to tweets so quickly.... maybe even an inside look at the mods war room as they discuss their process of keeping the actions of the constituency within the confines of the EX Constitution.

 

There could even be a spinoff in search of former posters, and solving such mysteries such as where in the world is MTH these days.... 

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4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I made this point on the Dan thread but its relevant here too.   IMO for the first time in Dan's tenure the brand is in danger.  In the past they can lose but people would keep coming back.  This team was discussed nationally and had some sex appeal.  

 

I think drafting Haskins helps recover some of it but Hard Knocks IMO would add some more zest to the team as to being nationally relevant.

 

For me its all about winning but i admit it bothers me when national shows are picking on the Redskins along with the Titans as a team that no national fan gives a hoot about that's why they prefer to talk about teams that drive their ratings because fans find them relevant. 

 

I'd never think I'd say this but I did take for granted that for all the faults under Dan's tenure -- the team still can draw a crowd to their games, drive TV ratings, and sell jerseys.  Those days seem dead for now.    Naturally, winning is the most important thing to me, though.  But I do enjoy a little hype, too.   

 

I recall reading a book from an ex-Giants GM years back who cited how he attended a Redskins-Giants game where the Redskins had nothing at stake yet the crowd was packed and were passionate.  He cited the Redskins having the best fans in the East.  That was about 10 years or so ago.   It's sort of sad to me that those days seem to be gone for now.  Not that Hard Knocks fixes all of that but I do think it will feed off of the momentum of the Haskins drill. 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-once-proud-franchise-the-redskins-are-showing-signs-of-foundational-cracks/2018/12/29/c5194e90-0b8d-11e9-85b6-41c0fe0c5b8f_story.html?utm_term=.ee392149b7e5

Attendance has plummeted since. This season saw a seismic drop. In 2017, the Redskins ranked sixth in NFL home-game attendance, drawing 75,175 fans per game. Heading into Sunday’s season finale, their average game-day crowd of 60,719 ranks 29th in the 32-team league.

Moreover, the Redskins rank dead last in percentage of stadium capacity filled (74 percent). Visually, the team tried to minimize the fact that more than 25 percent of tickets were unsold by covering large sections of the upper deck with advertising banners. 

 

...Six successive years of a drop in local TV ratings for the Redskins’ broadcasts on Fox — the predominant network for teams playing in the NFC — indicates that more fans are tuning out the team from their own homes. This year’s rating (17.7) was down 10 percent from 2017 (19.7) and off more than 46 percent from the rookie season of quarterback Robert Griffin III in 2012 (25.9).

 

 

I want to say that it has definitely been a slow decline.  Our fans are smart (for the most part) they knew Danny's desperate attempts (Gibbs 2.0, Shanny) were made to keep people interested while he played Fantasy GM with his pal Vinny.  We all knew in the back of our minds he was pulling shady stuff like selling all unsold tickets to Stubhub to keep the sold out streak alive and perpetuating the rumor the season ticket wait list was still a thing.  Now that those desperate attempts (Scot McCloughan, RGIII) didn't pan out, the less diehards are resigned to the fact it has been all sound and fury signifying nothing, and they won't waste their money on the paper tiger any more.

 

I am SLIGHTLY encouraged with the consistency at Head Coach and I believe this most recent draft was handled much better than years past.

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4 minutes ago, WeThreeKingsRuleU said:

Our fans are smart 

 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peregrine said:

I kind of think the opposite, I think showcasing the pure dysfunction of this franchise at what will likely be a breaking point, with record low attendance and a coach and GM about to be fired may just be the perfect shot to cement it as a national laughinstock.

 

Instead, if Im the Redskins I tell them "next year", because its a great story line and shows the franchise in a better light be cause A. Either Gruden and Allen are fired, and its all about a new regime, a new beginning, new coach, GM etc with a lot of young talent, or B. Gruden and Allen made the playoffs, fans are starting to come back, and its dramatic to see if they can build on it.

 

I think the danger with the fan base isn't anger but apathy.  I think too many people are checking out.  I think we've gone well past anger.   My best analogy I can think of is a sequel is coming out of a movie series that too many people don't care about anymore and don't plan to see.  Hard Knocks would be the equivalent of having trailer after trailer in people's faces to at least bring the movie to their attention.    And I've watched every Hard Knocks series and I can't really think of one which made me think less of the franchise.  It's mostly a positive spin show.  People talk about the Rams version of it having a negative vibe -- but that's a hindsight-retrospect exercise.  In real time, it was mostly positive. 

 

This team was 29th out of 32 teams as for filling their stadium.  The Cowboys were outdrawing the Redskins in TV ratings in the DMV.  We have not gotten a Sunday Night game two years in a row, we got zero 4 pm games this season.  We don't sell jerseys these days so I presume they aren't selling much merchandise.    We got a national reporter saying we are bleeding fans, we got shows goofing on this franchise for being boring and irrelevant -- I think this brand is at a low and needs something to jazz to it.    If anger was my concern then I'd agree stay away.  But I think apathy is the enemy now.   And no I don't mean that generating fan interest is more important than winning -- but if I am running this as a business in Dan's shoes I wouldn't shrug my shoulders about fans checking out. 

 

Also from what I understand the team has some serious editing power of the final product of Hard Knocks so if they don't want something showcased for the most part they can pull that off.  So if anything it would be a fun outlet for the 5-8 people (me not among them) on this message board who try to sell that this FO is really decent but its fans like us who are the problem for not seeing it and not trusting it. 

 

So if Bruce wants to try to convince people for example that Doug really runs the FO he can direct the cameras there and showcase something involving Doug.  So if anything its almost a perfect propaganda tool I think for them to convey whatever they want as to how they operate behind closed doors. 

 

The dysfunction likely would have to come from some narrative involving players that just happens organically like what happened with Nicholson last year.   Jay also is a bit of a loose cannon (which I don't mind myself) so he might slip with something that the FO wouldn't want out there.  But in their shoes, I'd take the risk.  I think they are in uncharted waters with the apathy levels of casual fans. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Posted (edited)

@Veryoldschool

 

For some reason I can't quote your post so I'll respond this way.    I'll start with this team hasn't wanted Hard Knocks in the past so I am guessing Dan is included in that soup otherwise they'd have done it.   So I don't think fans will see it as a Dan PR stunt.    

 

Just to simplify my point some.

 

A.  I think the odds that they are going to win over fans via winning this year is very low.  It feels to me like a 7-9 season.  

 

B.  I think the likely only sale for casual fans is hope for the future thanks to their younger stars.

 

C.  Hard Knocks is a perfect propaganda tool for B.

 

I think fans like us are unusual.  We can complain about this or that but we still watch their games and live and die by everything.  I think for some of the more casual fans they've gone beyond anger.  They are checking out.  It's not that they are watching and being disappointed (that's old school Dan problems) but that they aren't watching at all because they don't care (new school Dan problems). 

 

Hard Knocks would at least give some of these people who perhaps don't plan to watch these games this year a reason that might compel them to tune in to see some Redskins stuff from a totally different angle and maybe that will hook some of them back in the fold or at least add a little intrigue.

 

I don't know if you ever watched a season of it but the whole series tends to be some serious propaganda to promote certain players.  So whether they feature Guice or Haskins or McClaurin or whomever -- they will do a good job of selling them.  Heck my wife who is a causal football fan at best immediately recognized Keenum when the Redskins signed him because she recalled his story from the Rams season.   And she likes him for that reason and she's not even a Redskins fan.

 

As for the fear that the show would showcase players and then be let down by them -- that's possible but its a chance I'd take.  My point is they have reached a lower low than anger.  That lower low is apathy where you need to grab back some of these people's attention.  And I don't mean it by a flashy big FA signing but showcasing their younger stars.  If these young players end up flops -- then it is what it is considering too many people are checking out anyway so i think they got nothing to lose.   And I do think Haskins has given a boost to reverse this some but I think any shot to showcase him, Guice and the younger stars would help.  If these young stars end up flops then they got big problems regardless of how much they were showcased previously IMO.

 

And again this isn't because i need the buzz-jolt.  I just want them to win.  Heck I almost flew up to see Josh Johnson play with a rag tag team behind him.    But I think they are losing some of their fan base and it's gone past anger. 

 

https://thefandc.radio.com/articles/news/redskins-fans-stay-away-home-opener

The Washington Redskins came into Week 2 with a 1-0 record and a share of the NFC East lead, riding high off a road win featuring new playmakers. They returned home to a freshly-renovated stadium and a chance to go 2-0 for the first time since 2011.

Who cares? Redskins fans don't seem to. Given the opportunity to check out everything shiny about the team at home, fans stayed away.

 

 

Today's announced Redskins attendance was 57,013. That's easily the lowest for a home opener in FedEx Field history. Previous low, according to @pfref, was 76,512 in 2015

 
 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/a-once-proud-franchise-the-redskins-are-showing-signs-of-foundational-cracks/2018/12/29/c5194e90-0b8d-11e9-85b6-41c0fe0c5b8f_story.html?utm_term=.c9db1e104a4e

The sentiments of former third-generation season-ticket-holder Steven Collins reflect that of many alienated fans.

“My emotions during the Snyder era have run from anger to hope and back to anger. Then disbelief. The crazy part now is that I feel indifference. Indifference to the team that was a huge part of my life growing up,” Collins, 55, wrote in an email. Collins, who had kept his Redskins tickets after moving to Florida, continued: “Anger isn’t cutting it because the organization probably believes that no matter how mad they make us today, we will love them tomorrow. Indifference can be powerful and much harder to overcome. I’m there. I’m not hopeful. I’m not mad. It’s easier to stop caring and move on.”

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 hours ago, volsmet said:

I think we need a reality tv show about the posters of the ES, an inside look into how @mistertim and @Califan007 operate & how @Skinsinparadise gets to tweets so quickly.... maybe even an inside look at the mods war room as they discuss their process of keeping the actions of the constituency within the confines of the EX Constitution.

 

I'm afraid that you all might find it boring that I'm actually just a very well written ML python script. 

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MMQ

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/23/robert-kraft-patriots-nfl-spring-meeting-playoff-schedule-draft-combine?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com

Kirk, just recently, our Conor Orr examined four teams who need the Hard Knocks boost this season. And just for the hell of it, I looked up the dates on which HBO announced every Hard Knocks team since the lockout. Here’s what I found …

Dolphins (2012): May 29

Bengals (2013): June 15

Falcons (2014): June 12

Texans (2015): May 27

Rams (2016): March 23

Bucs (2017): April 19

Browns (2018): May 17

You’re reading this on May 23. So my read here? I think NFL Films and HBO would love to have a team in place right now, but it’s not a killer that they don’t. And my guess right now would be the Raiders would be the right team, among those who can be forced in.

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No thanks... all kinds of name haters would come out of the woodwork. We have enough problems as it is. Can you imagine all the protests involved. 

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2 hours ago, NickyJ said:

You say this as if fans leaving in droves during a bad season is a bad thing. The state of our franchise is well past the "man it sucked this year, but I'm gonna sit through it anyway and hope it gets better" stage. That was 5 years ago. Last year was a taste of what irrelevance is like, and from the view of people who think the team needs to go nuclear to burn the trash away, that irrelevance tasted good. It hurt. It hurt us, and more importantly, it hurt the ownership. They need to feel pain to know they need to do better.

 

I hear you but I don't think there is a short cut to respect and affection the team has to be serious, focused and ultimately successful.  Participation in Hard Knocks looks like the definition of a lack of devotion and commitment to true success to me.  That said, I'm in my twilight so what I think doesn't much matter as much as what young people think because Snyder has to find a way to nurture the fandom of young people and maybe this would help him attract and hold their attention more.  

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18 hours ago, volsmet said:

I think we need a reality tv show about the posters of the ES, an inside look into how @mistertim and @Califan007 operate & how @Skinsinparadise gets to tweets so quickly.... maybe even an inside look at the mods war room as they discuss their process of keeping the actions of the constituency within the confines of the EX Constitution.

 

 

Scene of me posting on ES...

 

 

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And of course scenes of ES members reading my posts...

 

 

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Jake russell tweeted that a hard knocks announcement is expected in June. So next week is my guess. Before the nfl goes on their 5 week break. 

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Even though I'm going to watch every second, probably multiple times..... really hate the Skins on Hard Knocks. Turrrrrrible idea. 

 

(assuming random twitter person is correct) 

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Mooka said:

Even though I'm going to watch every second, probably multiple times..... really hate the Skins on Hard Knocks. Turrrrrrible idea. 

 

(assuming random twitter person is correct) 

 

Why do you think it's such a bad idea? A distraction? Most cameras aren't "in your face" types around the facilities - the players will hardly notice a difference in their daily activities. These are professional athletes playing at the highest level. If they can't handle minimal intrusion into their preseason routine for a few weeks, then they suck as a professional. 

 

As a fan, who wouldn't love a peek inside the franchise?! Enjoy the show!

Edited by FireInHisBelly
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