Wildbunny

Welcome to the Redskins Kelvin Harmon WR North Carolina State

Recommended Posts

On 4/27/2019 at 7:29 PM, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Best comparison is probably Marquis Colston. 6th rounder, actually started as a TE because he was pretty slow but big-bodied, but quickly stuck at WR and developed into a physical, if non-explosive, possession/redzone specialist WR1

I had to look it up, but Colston was actually picked in the 7th round!  Obviously, we all hope he has a similar career!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

https://www.redskins.com/news/redskins-director-college-scouting-kyle-smith--nfl-draft-breakdown-haskins-sweat

 

Quote

Smith seemed just as surprised as the general public that N.C. State wide receiver Kelvin Harmon fell all the way to the sixth round of the NFL Draft on Saturday.

 

The Redskins contemplated taking Harmon in the fourth round before selecting Indiana guard Wes Brown. Harmon's name came up again ahead of the team's fifth-round pick, too, but the franchise opted to take Alabama guard Ross Pierschbacher.

 

“Of the guys names being drafted, you know Kelvin’s name came up more than anyone that we drafted because that third day, its fifth-round, sixth-round, it’s all of our picks that were sitting there and we were just like, ‘Let’s take Kelvin here,’" Smith said. " But that was just one of those deals where you let the board speak to you and you have depth at different positions."

 

The Redskins finally pulled the trigger on Harmon in the sixth-round, locking up a two-time All-ACC wideout that "checks all the boxes," said Smith, who highlighted Harmon's physicality, character and pass-catching prowess.

 

"He’s definitely a contested ball catcher,," Smith said. "He didn’t run real well, but he’s just one of those guys that’s got great tempo, what we call great play tempo, where it may say 4.6 [seconds] on that card, but he’s playing the 4.57 - 4.55 consistently out of his routes.”

 

Edited by Fresh8686
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2019 at 2:04 AM, THE HAMMER'IN HOG said:

Kelvin game is very similar to DeAndre Hopkins, Kelvin is a little bigger and stronger, while DeAndre is a tad more athletic, both know how to body up on the defender and take the ball away!!! 

His build is actually closest to Dez Bryant (6'2" 225) and his 40 time is about the same at 4.5.

He could learn to run the dig like Dez Bryant used to in his prime and be a 1st down machine.

This type of ball catcher has a few good routes to capitalize on across the field.  When you think of the dig routes and how Jay uses the crossing routes, they need a guy that can win contested catches. 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

And he's a skilled one-hander.

 

 

And it looks like he plans to take Mo Harris' old #

 

w51ShcrY_400x400.jpg

dez.jpg.01340c9034cceeccc2efcb2f1da90238.jpg

Same size and speed.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Good pick by the Skins. His standard IMO is he has to measure up to Docton’s production numbers and that shouldn't be hard. Then, after this season he takes over Docton’s role and basically saves the team $10 million - the 5th year option salary Docton would've been due. 

 

But he should be better than Doctson as Harmon is as fast, has better hands, and outweighs him by 20 lbs. i say, “as fast” despite Harmon having a slightly slower 40 time but neither has elite speed. Doctson has a significantly better vertical at 41” that is elite, whereas Harmon is a pedestrian 32” - pretty poor. 

Edited by JaxJoe
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/27/2019 at 5:52 PM, Art said:

Can anyone think of a legit No. 1 wideout out of the sixth round other than Antonio Brown, who is elite quick?


Hey, I'm not knocking him.   He's a good player with great production.   Super happy to have him.   I just can't see what I've seen of his skill set being a legit No. 1 receiver in the NFL.   But I hope in three years that's the dumbest thing I've ever said :).

TJ Houshmenzadeh led the league in receptions one year (iirc), and was a 7th rounder. Garcon led the league one year playing for us, and he was a sixth.

If he ends up being like either of those guys, I will be ecstatic. More realistically, if he can consistently put up 800 yards a season and fit in as a solid possession WR, along the lines of Wayne Chrebet, that would be great.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok yep that's who he(Harmon)was reminding me of when watching his highlights..Dez...but better..better adjusting to the ball better hands.

On 4/27/2019 at 3:41 PM, Art said:

Some of you are a little enthusiastic, which is good to see.   He's a sixth rounder.   If he's on the roster in two years it's an ok pick.   I think No. 1 material is a bit much :).   But I ain't going to tell you to put down the kool aid.   I hope you're right :).

Watching his highlights it suprises me to see him not go till the 6th..any idea why he dropped that far?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Ok yep that's who he(Harmon)was reminding me of when watching his highlights..Dez...but better..better adjusting to the ball better hands.

For giggles I was looking at Dez Bryant’s career stats then compared him to Michael Irving’s. A stat that leaped out for both receivers, and I have a hunch it’s true for most is percent completion per target and yards per target. It seems that a very good receiver has around 65% over a season and about 9-ish yards per target. A good receiver has 60% completion and 8+ YPT. An average receiver is 55% completion and about 7 YPT. I checked out other receivers like Julio Jones and Calvin Johnson and my benchmark holds up pretty well except Calvin Johnson who’s catch percentage was lower by 5% (meaning he is considered good despite fluctuating between 55%-60%) but that guy caught a **** load of TDs. I guess theres always an exception. 

 

Doctson last season was 56% catch percentage and 6.8 YPT. 

 

 

Edited by JaxJoe
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Any of yall think we can get this dude on the field as a TE in a few packages? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Llevron said:

Any of yall think we can get this dude on the field as a TE in a few packages? 

I’m sure he could replicate what Niles Paul did for us but Harmon will need to add 20 lbs. If you want him close to the line, I think it better to have him in motion and then sit just outside a TE for run blocking or slip out for a route. This way he is ensured of matching up with a corner or safety who is similar in size. But,  I think Harmon will be better for us as a receiver and we should acquire a true blocking TE who can occasionally catch a pass. Niles Paul wasn’t terribly effective for us, although a fan favorite. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/nilespaul/2495211/profile

Edited by JaxJoe
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This kid has been likened to Pierre Garcon and I won’t knock that but being s North Carolina and pretty avid N.C. State fan...I liken Harmon to another N.C. State alumni in Torrey Holt...not as fast although remember Az Akim and Isaac Bruce as the speed guy’s on that Rams team but Holt was mister reliable when you needed to move the chains and held his own in scoring as well, I move this pick I think he will continue that consistency at the next level and his play will surprise some folks, we got a steal with he and McLaurin in my opinion!

HTTR! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/3/2019 at 7:19 PM, JaxJoe said:

I’m sure he could replicate what Niles Paul did for us but Harmon will need to add 20 lbs. If you want him close to the line, I think it better to have him in motion and then sit just outside a TE for run blocking or slip out for a route. This way he is ensured of matching up with a corner or safety who is similar in size. But,  I think Harmon will be better for us as a receiver and we should acquire a true blocking TE who can occasionally catch a pass. Niles Paul wasn’t terribly effective for us, although a fan favorite. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/player/nilespaul/2495211/profile

 

Niles was a victim of the injury bug,,,every time about to break out He got hurt....and then Reed happened, and then it happened to Reed....jeezus please bless this team with health. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would not surprise me in the least if Harmon leads the team in receptions and TD's this year. I'm still baffled why he fell that far. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Finally got to watch some games Kelvin Harmon played over the 2018 season. Harmon had the second most receptions for NC State at 81 catches for 1146 yards and a team-leading 7 touchdowns. Over the season, Harmon generally caught 6 or so passes per game but had three monster games against Syracuse, Boston College, and Wake Forest totaling  35 receptions for 509 yards and 3 touchdowns. Harmon had 6 games where he caught over 100 yards and one game against Syracuse where he caught 11 passes for a whopping 247 yards and 2 TDs. 

 

Watching six YouTube game cut-ups (Virginia, Boston College, Clemson, Florida State, Wake Forest, North Carolina), I believe I have a better understanding of what kind of a player Kelvin Harmon is. 

 

First off, he has incredible hands. I think I saw only four, maybe five drops over the six games. He also can make incredible circus catches, sometimes one handed grabs. He gives it his all and will go the extra mile to haul in a sideline pass. He is a physical X receiver who uses his body well to keep him in between the defender and the QB and can adjust well when the ball is in the air. He is mostly an outide-the-numbers receiver but has had snaps at flanker and slot though usually on run plays. He is more of a possession receiver than a YAC type.

 

He excels in zone coverage and can find the open holes. I saw him run all routes successfully. He is always looking back at the QB and can haul in those under-thrown balls.  In highlight films, it looks like he’s only a hitch-type come-back receiver but if you watch the entirety of his games, you’ll see he is frequently open in any route he runs: outs and ins, posts and go routes, etc.. Routes I didn't see him run were crossing routes: deep or shallow.

 

He tracks the ball very well and can make tight-window catches over either shoulder or slow his pace to catch under-thrown balls. He also can come back into open areas when the QB is under duress. He doesn't have that extra gear or leaping ability to catch  overthrown balls. The times he is running outs or ins is when the QB, Ryan Finley, seems to hit other targets like #86, Jakobi Meyers, inside the numbers. Meyers actually led the Wolf Pack with  92 receptions  - mostly between the numbers and his season yards total was less, at 1,047. 

 

I will say that Harmon does struggle against press coverage as it is hard for him to get separation due to his slower 40 time of 4.6 sec.  However, like Arcego-Whiteside, he can usually keep the DB outside his hips to allow for a chance at the ball. Harmon runs really well against off-coverage and has shown quick moves to get really open in zone. Watching the Clemson and Florida State games, you can see Harmon struggle a bit with the more talented CBs. In those two games, Harmon only caught 6 passes for a paltry 50 yards and one touchdown. 

 

Now, most analysts say he is a good run blocker. Yes, he does always engage a DB on run plays, which is great as he doesn’t shy away from contact, but IMO isn't as physical as I think a 220 lb receiver should be. In fact, playing against better CBs like Clemson and FSU, you can see the DB usually get the better of Harmon as they were the more physical.  

 

Harmon at the Combine had a not-so-fast 40 but seems to play faster as he has quick feet and has good moves when given the space to apply them. His hands are incredible. He seems to have an alpha male dominance when the ball is thrown to him. He plays with a fire too that is exciting to watch. His vertical is pedestrian at 32 inches so he won’t make ballet type catches but instead uses his body to get into position then lets his hands do the work. He is the type of receiver that has the trust of his QB because he can improve the his QBR despite imperfect passes. His struggles against press coverage will need coaching. In terms of production, I can see him easily make 30-40 receptions this year but I think he starts off slow. Without a doubt, In future years, I see him easily replicating Doctson’s production which isn't saying much and this could allow the Skins to let Doctson walk after this season. 

Edited by JaxJoe
  • Like 8
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

When you look for reasons why he fell, the theories abound.

Of course some of these are weak theories, and some of them I don't necessarily agree with, I'm just listing most of them :

 

* measurables/combine results...more notably...

* lack of speed, and foot quickness

* lack of separation

* wrist injury

* "Doesn't play through injuries"

* not athletic

* hands aren't dependable

 

Granted, some of those above are probably bull ****, and some of them contradict with other reports, but people have their own reasons and theories.

 

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wideouts in the draft are such a crapshoot. Obviously we need to look no further than Doctson who had all the tangibles you want in a big wideout. These guys will need to learn the nuances of playing wide receiver in the NFL but it won’t happen likely in their rookie year. Dez Bryant or Antonio Brown didn’t become impact players their first year. 

 

I just hope Harmon can show glimpses of being the go to guy similar to a Kenny Golladay from Detroit. I’m just tired of seeing Doctson struggle to get open. We need someone who can separate using their big body. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Of course some of these are weak theories, and some of them I don't necessarily agree with, I'm just listing most of them :

 

* measurables/combine results...more notably...

* lack of speed, and foot quickness

* lack of separation

* wrist injury

* "Doesn't play through injuries"

* not athletic

* hands aren't dependable

Another thing I failed to annotate was consistency. There were several games he looked just ‘OK’ like the games against Virginia and North Carolina. The Florida State game, the CB basically took care of Harmon, yet NC State won!.  Games against BC and Clemson he was jacked and you could see a noticeable difference on the field. Despite his effort against Clemson he only had two receptions. Unfortunately, I think two beautiful sideline grabs were ruled out-of-bounds.  NC State was neck and neck with Clemson that day until Finley threw an ugly INT down by the 5-yd line  with only a couple minutes left. Not Harmon’s fault. 

 

In short, his energy level fluctuated and therefore had inconsistent games. An oddity was that his top two most dominating games, Syracuse and Wake Forest, NC State ended up losing. Scouts may have looked at that and thought Harmon, despite great production, isn't a ‘game changer’. 

Edited by JaxJoe
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/1/2019 at 12:02 PM, Saeth29 said:

I had to look it up, but Colston was actually picked in the 7th round!  Obviously, we all hope he has a similar career!

Doesn’t hurt that he had Drew Brees throwing to him lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/1/2019 at 12:02 PM, Saeth29 said:

I had to look it up, but Colston was actually picked in the 7th round! 

 

And so was Quinn...about as 7th roundish as you can get. :)

And he started turning heads immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, JaxJoe said:

 

He is more of a possession receiver than a YAC type.

 

 

Pretty solid analysis. I wouldn’t disagree with any of it. I would just add, no not a YAC guy, but he’s a load to bring down. He always falls forward, and if he catches it in stride he can rumble. His bread and butter in the NFL will be 3rd down converter. He always runs the route to the sticks and never gives up ground. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

 

Pretty solid analysis. I wouldn’t disagree with any of it. I would just add, no not a YAC guy, but he’s a load to bring down. He always falls forward, and if he catches it in stride he can rumble. His bread and butter in the NFL will be 3rd down converter. He always runs the route to the sticks and never gives up ground. 

 

A Pierre Garcon, have we ?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.