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Welcome to the Redskins Bryce Love RB Stanford

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Most reporting is fiction, yes, and as sports reporters have decided to report sports like news, they also generate more fiction.   Traditional sports writing remains pretty straightforward and hard to get wrong though.   I'm not sure how to answer the question about why I was watching the NFL draft during the NFL draft other than to say I watched the NFL draft cause I enjoy it.   It doesn't mean I sit there presuming every word they come up with is factual.   Or that I agree they need a 10 minute segment on a draft pick who hit a girl in high school and why that's ok/not ok.   But the draft is fun to watch.   So are sports.   I'm just blessed not to think each utterance is true as I appreciate people who are never in D.C. don't actually have a ton of contacts in D.C.   Exchange city as you wish.   

 

I am sure you know his rehab was actually delayed, right? 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/12/derrius-guice-his-rehab-delayed-by-infection-plans-return-faster-bigger-stronger/?utm_term=.aa8b50632b52

 

I didn't know anything about it, so Shefter actually opened my eyes heh - lots of complications. 2 months of infections, 3 additional procedures... probably just scratches the surface of what he has dealt with.  If his original time table to full health was maintained, or he is at 100% today, Shefter was wrong.  But are we assuming 100% health currently?? I am not, until I get reports from camp.

 

FYI I don't buy all the bull**** blindly, but do measure timing of said statements, the stage, possible benefit etc, just like everyone else has to do in the anyone can tweet anything era.   My bull**** meter did not go off because he stood to benefit little.

 

Edited by RandyHolt
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12 minutes ago, JaxJoe said:

I mostly agree about your take on sports reporting, @Art  especially in the age of the internet and more specifically Twitter. For example, @Skinsinparadise will frequently give us a nod as to who he thinks is a more reliable source. Obviously Kiem but occasionally Sheehan. It took me a while to connect the dots but I discovered he is the Ed Sheehan I graduated HS with. Super great guy that played football all his youth but never grew tall. He’s a freelance photographer who also covers the Nats. Bit all of a sudden, he gains a twitter following and is now a quotable source?  Certainly he’s way more connected than me but I’d go more with what Kiem or Finley say - guys who are salaried reporters. 

 

Back to this ESPN stuff. I was listening to ESPN radio on Saturday while driving my kids to music lessons and the radio guys were glowing about the Love pick. Not sure what the TV guys were saying. 

 

But, yeah, consider your sources. I think many of these twitter “insider”  guys are actually tools used by the FO like Schefter and JLC. 

 

Almost perfectly stated.   There are some guys who have more ins than others.   Right now Finlay is ahead on points.   Keim is a wonderful and respectful guy, and, frankly covers the team almost like an old timer sports journo in that he's writing, not trying to tell you how stupid everyone is but him.  The Sheehan who does that podcast has "some" insight in that he's Cooley's old partner and they are friends and Cooley is an insider who may be known to hint at stuff to friends.   Cooley doesn't like Haskins.   So, don't be surprised if Sheehan is getting some "insider" stuff from Cooley.   I like Paulson, but, golly, he got played or outright fabricated his nonsense last week.   My guess is fabricated as no one currently in the organization would tell him that as it's pretty far from the known and shared reality.

On the national side, there are no "Redskins insiders".   Russini literally made stuff up.   As for the Shefter thing on Guice, what happened there was simple.   We got Love.   Shefter doesn't follow college football or scout it.   He's not Kiper.   He saw we got Love so he essentially speculated Guice was slow to recover.   He didn't realize Love is unlikely to even be on the roster this year.   And Twitter doesn't allow him to write the extra characters of "speculation" in his tweets apparently so people forget ALL OF THEM ARE.   

3 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I am sure you know his rehab was actually delayed, right? 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/12/derrius-guice-his-rehab-delayed-by-infection-plans-return-faster-bigger-stronger/?utm_term=.aa8b50632b52

 

I didn't know anything about it, so Shefter actually opened my eyes heh - lots of complications. 2 months of infections, 3 additional procedures... probably just scratches the surface of what he has dealt with.  If his original time table to full health was maintained, or he is at 100% today, Shefter was wrong.  But are we assuming 100% health currently?? I am not, until I get reports from camp.

 

FYI I don't buy all the bull**** blindly, but do measure timing of said statements, the stage, possible benefit etc, just like everyone else has to do in the anyone can tweet anything era.   My bull**** meter did not go off because he stood to benefit little.

 

 

Randy.   That happened in August.   It took local media until December to even report on it.   Guice is not delayed on his recovery for playing in 2019.   No one has said he was.   Even that Post article.  Shefter simply didn't realize Love wasn't likely to play this year -- though Love says otherwise -- and figured we drafted him because Guice must be slow.   So he wrote a short Tweet that people took as NEW reporting.   When it was just a guy who doesn't follow college football speculating.

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@JaxJoe wasn't saying he was similar to Guise at all. Different style backs.

 

What you're saying about the oline is true, but did he play that much worse because of injuries that he fought through or was he getting more injured because of the team he was playing on. Hard to label him injury prone from a single year.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Art said:

 

Randy.   That happened in August.   It took local media until December to even report on it.   Guice is not delayed on his recovery for playing in 2019.   No one has said he was.   Even that Post article.  Shefter simply didn't realize Love wasn't likely to play this year -- though Love says otherwise -- and figured we drafted him because Guice must be slow.   So he wrote a short Tweet that people took as NEW reporting.   When it was just a guy who doesn't follow college football speculating.

 

If I were asked about it, after reading that article I would say Guice was slow to recover. All that - yikes. 

 

It's a fair point for him to chime in, but you don't think so or imply that it is not true - that is fine.  Is slowed, was slowed, we're splitting hairs here.  I hate Schefter too from all the bull**** he spewed about us in pregames under Mike.  I feel like his reporting under Mike is the real root of this discussion.

 

I actually think there IS a chance his slow recovery maybe, just maybe, made RB a slightly higher need for the team as they constructed their draft board. Maybe it made our scouts set out to scope out backs back in October, and simply fell in love with love.

 

Sure, taking a back limping himself lends credence to that not being true, but nonetheless points to possible increased needs at RB.  Injuries at RB are a real problem for us and with the draft capital spent on Guice he is at the center of it. Maybe they now fear he may be injury prone, as this was not his first knee injury. Who the hell knows. It's not totally unlike Alex and his complications likely further placed greater needs to take a QB.

Edited by RandyHolt

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27 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

@JaxJoe wasn't saying he was similar to Guise at all. Different style backs.

 

What you're saying about the oline is true, but did he play that much worse because of injuries that he fought through or was he getting more injured because of the team he was playing on. Hard to label him injury prone from a single year.

I know you weren't comparing him to Guice. I added that to respond to a couple earlier posts where guys were thinking he’d be an equivalent. I see him as a compliment to Guice, not as an equal. 

 

So, last season Stanford gives Love the ball like 20 times per game but only once does he crack 100 yds. In the 4th game against ND, he tweeks his ankle. He comes back and actually has  some good carries but the staff rests him and Love runs only 16 attempts over the next two games for 74 yards but still had some good bursts in there. He returns to his normal workload against the Huskies in week 8 running for 18 carries for only 71 yards. I say only because 3.9 YPA is paltry compared to his 2017 numbers. He never eclipses 100 yds the rest of the season. 

 

So, yes, his o-line blocking was much worse than 2017. In fact, I was thinking he’d have massive games against San Diego State (7-6) or Cal (7-6) do to the talent mismatch but only ran for 29 yards on 18 carries against SD St and 22/74 against Cal.  Numerous times in any game the D was in the backfield. At only 195 lbs and no lanes, there wasn't much he could do. But, he would still had many 15-20 yard bursts when those lanes opened up. He had a smokin game against Oregon St (2-10) but coaches clearly limited his runs to 11 but torched them for 90 yds. 

 

So, even a knicked-up Love can still turn on the burners but the man needs open lanes. He’s not tiny but he runs like he’s a 230lb back, which shows great heart and determination but certainly lead to his injuries. Especially his ACL against Cal. 

 

To further prove my point. The next closest RB on Stanford’s roster was Scarlett who had 79 touches for only 330 yards. Both had similar YPA at just over 4 yards. 

 

However, his receptions went from 6 in 2017 to 20 in in 2018. I think it’s because coaches knew their OL situation and were trying to get Love in space where he is most affective. The OL was pretty good as pass pro but not run blocking. 

 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

If I were asked about it, after reading that article I would say Guice was slow to recover. All that - yikes. 

 

 

Guice's reply

 

 

and

 

 

Edited by Malapropismic Depository
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Posted (edited)
On 4/29/2019 at 10:59 AM, JaxJoe said:

I mostly agree about your take on sports reporting, @Art  especially in the age of the internet and more specifically Twitter. For example, @Skinsinparadise will frequently give us a nod as to who he thinks is a more reliable source. Obviously Kiem but occasionally Sheehan

 

I feel like I am almost a shill for some of the reporters I like but there is a reason for it.   😀My business isn't that different from sports and is entangled with the media a lot.  Reporters-blogs cover some of the things I am involved in and I know what they get right or what they get wrong from first hand information.  I'd say a typical story is about 80% right give or take among the things i am involved with.  Once in awhile its 100% wrong.  Once in awhile its 100% right.   

 

But a lot of stuff is grey.  Lets say I am a source to the media which I've been in my profession -- I can give them my perspective of everything.  It doesn't mean my perspective is right.   And I can have an agenda.  I don't lie to the media because that could burn you over time but I can give a narrative that's favorable towards my client.  And there is definitely some bias in any perspective.   So there is always going to be some bias here and there.    So for example, when Sheehan or whomever says he's heard so and so.  but then someone else counters it with that's wrong, here's what I heard...my take at that point is unless one perspective is directly from the source then both narratives are just speculative and if anything you simply got competing biases. 

 

Also the relationships and how you treat the people who cover you or your clients almost always colors whether you get the benefit of the doubt or not.  It's part of the reason why I don't feel sorry for example that many in the local press liked Scot or Lafemina and don't so much like Dan and Bruce.  People make their own bed to a degree about whether they will be liked or not.    I had a reporter who didn't care for me.  I took him out for a 4 hour lunch and we've been fine since.  It's not always that easy but relationships matter in the business. 

 

Every guy covering the team will get something wrong.  Heck in the midst of a long report its almost a given something in that soup is wrong but it doesn't mean everything is wrong.  And sources can change or be improved on.  Chris Russell for example has been played many times years ago on some stories especially the Cowher one.  But specific to the FO gossip -- he's been mostly on fire for the last two years.  Heck the dude knew about defensive coordinators they were about to interview before the major beat and national writers knew about them.  He broke the Scot story.  The Doug one.   So we can dismiss him as a clown because of the Cowher story but I don't any more. 

 

Sheehan has gotten some odd things right including that Bruce planned to open up to the media starting at the senior bowl (before it happened).  Keim to me though is the most on the money -- not perfect (though no one is) but pretty close.   Schefter to me is the king on getting things right -- he's explained though once that his accuracy is partly due to he waits to have three sources first.  Rappoport obviously is a joke and will run with just one source.   

 

 

Switching back to Love: 😀  I like that Mora thought Love was more dangerous than McCaffrey.

 

To those who watched Love ransack the Pac-12 as a junior, those words are bold but believable. Former UCLA coach Jim Mora, who spent more than two decades in the NFL, has a projection that matches Love’s optimism.

“Christian was incredibly difficult to defend,” Mora said of McCaffrey, now starring with Carolina. “But I would argue that Bryce was a little more dangerous.”

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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When I look at Love's highlights, they look strikingly similar to Chris Johnson's imo... To be honest the thought of a healthy Guice and Love gets me pumped.

 

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On 4/28/2019 at 5:53 PM, KillBill26 said:

After watching some Haskins tape, I am very excited for love and what he can bring.  Not only can he run between the tackles and be a slot receiver, but I think he can also contribute on some stuff I'm hoping the skins steal from Ohio St: jet sweeps, mesh plays etc.  With his speed and big play ability, he could really help the offense.

 

This. Love looks like an explosive beast running the ball and should be great in our system. I would really, really, like to see him improve his skills as a receiver. He clearly has the explosion to do that. He doesn't need to develop the ability to track the ball deep. If he can motion out and catch a bubble screen, or a slant/drag, he could really help the offense. 

 

Also, I am very much in favor of a redshirt year, if necessary. Give him as much time as he needs to be healthy. This team has a lot of talent, but, IMHO, they should be planning for a 2020 playoff push. 

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We've gone bargain shopping for talent at HB (not a bad strategy), and the result is an aging first ballot HoFer, a 5'8 195 pound back with a gruesome injury history, and two blue chip college backs who haven't been taken out of the box yet due to ACL tears.  The upside in the group is huge--HB is the second most talented position group on the team IMO.  But the floor is terrible. 

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5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I love this. I hope Cooley is wrong about Haskins, and right about Sweat and Love. 😅

 

I didn't see the article below posted, and it's a good read. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2746737-bryce-love-is-more-than-a-435-40-stanford-star-crushes-speed-back-stereotype

 

I also didn't see this posted. 

 

Even if he weren't a Skin, I would want to see a return to full health. He's Tyreek Hill explosive. 

Last thought. The board has been abuzz about a healthy Love paired with a healthy Guice. Think for a second about a healthy Love with a Healthy Chris Thompson. When healthy, Thompson has been far and away our best offensive weapon. I don't actually believe Thompson will ever have a fully healthy year, but the idea of Thompson and Love sharing carries, or even sharing a backfield, is crazy exciting. A two back set with Love and Thompson, if Love can just learn a few rudimentary routes, could be nearly indefensible in certain situations. Especially with McLaurin blocking. Motion Thompson out as a slot receiver and run a draw to Love. Line Love up in the slot and run a bubble screen. Use both as a decoy and run a mesh concept with McLaurin and Richardson. There are a million possibilities that would pair well with Haskins' strength as a quick read short passing game QB.

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5 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I love this. I hope Cooley is wrong about Haskins, and right about Sweat and Love. 😅

 

I didn't see the article below posted, and it's a good read. 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2746737-bryce-love-is-more-than-a-435-40-stanford-star-crushes-speed-back-stereotype


 

 

Yeah Love can run between the tackles and do it all.  Only issue is at his size can he hold up doing that for long?  But yeah he's the most explosive running back I've ever seen.  He's like the Desean Jackson of running backs if he's right.  I loved him in the 2017 draft thread during the season until he decided not to come out.  I figured he's off the table this year because of the injury but am glad they took him.

 

Yeah hopefully Cooley among others is wrong about Haskins, too.    If Haskins ends up the guy and Love is back to form in 2020 then they can seriously make a run IMO. 

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I hope Bryce is training with AP and Guice.

I mean, not just because of the position group.

But because they all have experience rehabbing from ACL tears.

Hope he can gain full recovery because he's gonna need it, since he depends so much on speed, burst etc.

 

A backfield of Bryce & Guice sounds nice, don't it ?

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Damn. I'm not saying he'll live up to CJ2K at all but I've been wracking my brains since we drafted him to think of a RB with Love's short area explosion and long speed combo who also had such great feet and instincts running between the tackles. And it wasn't until the Chris Johnson post on this page that it clicked, that's where I've seen that combo before. 

 

That's silly optimism of course but I can see the skill-set comp. I think CJ2K and Tyreek Hill have otherworldy speed, but a healthy Love is just a notch below that imo. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Ray Rice was a great pinball back about the same size as love also. 

It's funny. The NFL.com draft profile comp is Dion Lewis. Other than his injuries the one thing lacking from Lewis' NFL game was long speed, which is why I think it's a poor comp overall. But if Love is as much a jitterbug between the tackles and catching the ball as Dion Lewis was, but also with 4.3 speed? That would be an incredible player to pair with Guice, assuming health. 

 

I don't really see the Dion Lewis comp though. I think Love is a little more straightline as an athlete (and I doubt that gets better after an ACL) but way more freakishly fast with a slight head of steam. Lewis had short area explosion, vision, and great hands and that's pretty much it. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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Love is saying he thinks he’ll be ready to go by the start or middle of training camp.  Not sure how I feel about that as I pictured him landing on the PUP.  

 

It’s strange to feel like we might/probably have the best group of backs in the league, yet feel so much concern about the group given injuries/age.  

 

Glad we now have some upside/potential at LG, but man, I wish we had managed to snag a TE that could have an impact on the ground game.  

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Agreed. Our WRs block better than our TEs, but our TEs are better receivers. Its odd.

 

We have the makings of a run first smashmouth football team, with the defense to go with it. QB doesn't have a ton to do for us to win.

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Usually I take player estimates on when they'll be ready with a grain of salt, but I'm a little more likely to believe Love, due to his medical background. He's treating his surgery and recovery with Dr. Andrew's as a mini-internship and learning the nuts and bolts of his recovery process in ways people without that medical background might not be able to reach. I'd like to think that gives him a bit more of a grounded view on what he's trying to accomplish than someone just following the doctors orders and hoping for the best. But, then again it might not.

Another thing, I can't help but wonder how many times we benefit from our relationship with Dr. Andrews when it comes to taking a flyer on players with an injury history? But, then again given how many players we've had on IR over the years maybe we need to re-evaluate that relationship? Of course, there is a difference though between what Dr. Andrews does and what our S&C staff is responsible for, so he may not bear any responsibility on that front.

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Wanna know another RB who was super talented but fell in the draft due to injuries? Frank Gore. And Gore ended up playing now, what, like 13 years?

 

You never really know how the human body develops.

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