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      In today's Divisional Debacle, the Defense under Greg Manusky in the first half, gave up 207 yards of offense (105 rushing/102 passing) and two touchdowns.  That said, they did manage a single INT on which the Offense actually managed to score a touchdown off of. They allowed 12 of 16 passes to be completed . 
       
      In the second half it was 107 yards given up (58 rushing//49 passing) a field goal and a touchdown. They traded their first half pick for a second half sack. However, Dallas completed all five of their pass attempts. 
       
      Don't read that thinking "Well it seems like they tightened up some in the 2nd half."  They didn't. They simply had about half the plays in the second half. 30 plays in the First and 18 in the Second.
       
      So far in two Divisional matchups, the Defense has faltered in the Second half. They start out like a house of fire for the first few drives until their opponents gradually make adjustments. This Defensive coaching staff fails make any adjustments, whether in game or at the very least at Halftime. They've given up over 30 points per game for a total of 63 points given up in two games. While the Bears are up next, the Pats await and they've put up over 70 points in two games. Yeah. Ok. They did shut out the Dolphins today which is looking like the NFL version of ... ahem... shooting fish in a barrel. 
       
      The frustrating thing is Manusky is the DC that the Front Office actively looked to replace during the off season without firing him. When you know they're looking to replace you, most people would make a concentrated effort to show an improvement. Yet Manusky's Defense still keeps acting like it's starring in Groundhog Day.
       
      In his post game presser, when asked directly about if any coaching changes would be made, Gruden said "No, I think after two games – you’re talking about playing two very good offensive football teams and two of the best offensive lines in pro football we just played back-to-back. That’s no excuse whatsoever, but I don’t think we need to hit the panic button yet. We just have to continue to focus on what we can do better to win. Get Jonathan [Allen] in here, get a couple of our corners back in here and let’s go back and strap it up against Chicago [Bears] next week and see what happens.” 
       
      Here's another frustrating thing. The defensive communication was an issue last season as well. Wasn't this supposed to have been worked on during OTA's and Training Camp? It's understandable that the rookies would still be on a learning curve, but NFL vets like Collins and DRC you'd think they would have down by the start of the season. 
       
      Gruden said they're a very talented group on Defense but that they weren't reaching them. When questioned as to why the coaching staff that has been in place for several years, wasn't reaching them, he defended the comment as them being a young defense. “We have some moving parts now. Landon Collins is a veteran guy but this is his first year, [Montez] Sweat’s in his first year, [Cole] Holcomb, it’s his first year, [Jon] Bostic is in his first year. We’re playing Dominique [Rodgers-Cromartie] at corner and this is Jimmy Moreland’s first year, so it’s not like we are the most experienced group. We feel like were very talented, but we`re still fighting through somethings. There are a lot of things to look forward to, without a doubt, but we do have to play better and strap it up and get back to work."

       
       
       
PCS

Welcome to the Redskins Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

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Ultimately, Haskins is gonna be as good as the coaching we give him. Sounds like he has the ability and intelligence, do the Skins have the coaches to take him to a pro bowl level? We need this guy to be the best QB in the division in the next 5 years. Us Gibbs years guys aren't getting any younger. Hail.

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28 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

 Us Gibbs years guys aren't getting any younger. Hail.

 

Ain’t that the truth.

 

But at least we know what a winning team looks like and got to experience Championships. It’s time we had that again.

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My gf and I have yearly plans with a buddy who is a Giants fan to hit a game together. We alternate stadiums each year. This year is week 4 at Giants stadium, selfishly hoping for Jones vs. Haskins even though I doubt it happens on either end. 

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Couldn't figure out how to quote and delete most of the post on mobile and at this time of night lol, but, fantastic writeup TSO.  Great read.  Should be exciting to see the guy grow with the NFL.

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2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Ultimately, Haskins is gonna be as good as the coaching we give him. Sounds like he has the ability and intelligence, do the Skins have the coaches to take him to a pro bowl level? We need this guy to be the best QB in the division in the next 5 years. Us Gibbs years guys aren't getting any younger. Hail.

 

The coaches will put him in position to receive an NFL record-breaking guaranteed deal. ;)

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9 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Ultimately, Haskins is gonna be as good as the coaching we give him. Sounds like he has the ability and intelligence, do the Skins have the coaches to take him to a pro bowl level? We need this guy to be the best QB in the division in the next 5 years. Us Gibbs years guys aren't getting any younger. Hail.

 

I get the point but it somewhat implies that Haskins is a slam dunk prospect who can only be derailed by coaching.  Awhile ago, I posted a longish report from Bob McGinn who quoted 6 different scouts about Haskins.  McGinn over the years has built himself a big reputation in the draft from the perspective of getting scouts to talk to him who end up predicting the draft fairly well. 

 

Not saying scouts can't be wrong but I think it gives a window into how people are all over the place on Haskins and is seen as a bit of a boom-bust prospect.  There were other QB needy teams who skipped over picking Haskins.  If Haskins was in a slam dunk category or close enough then that wouldn't have happened -- those type of QBs tend to go top 3.   The upside from our side of this is we'd have no shot at a slam dunk type prospect where we picked at 15.  So the perceived flaws about Haskins ended up being a godsend for the Redskins if Haskins ends up the real deal because otherwise they'd have no shot at him IMO.

 

It's a paid account so I can't provide a link to it but here where some of the highlights on Haskins. 

 

McGinn correctly picked 88 of the first 100 players selected in last week’s NFL draft and won The Huddle Report’s top-100 contest. The Huddle Report was second in its own contest with 87 points, while NFL Rough Draft, Draft Ace and College Football Metrics each had 86 in a contest that featured 49 entries.

“Bob McGinn and (former Dallas Morning News NFL writer) Rick Gosselin are the godfathers of mock drafting in our business,” said Peter King of NBC Sports. “Now that Rick has stepped away, we’re all aiming at Bob’s incredible accuracy.

 

The guy can throw the ball. Holy hell. Big-time arm. Accurate. He’s just not ready to be an NFL starter.”

Haskins is a pocket guy. He’s exactly what you want in the National Football League. Some day, (Patrick) Mahomes is going to get hurt. Deshaun Watson is always hurt. RGIII got hurt. This guy is special.” Passer rating of 123.2 in 2018.

 

“If he’s at his best he’s a bottom-15 QB in the NFL,” a third scout said. “Franchise quarterbacks make everybody better. He’s not that guy. He needs to be on a good team like he had at Ohio State. If he has no talent around him you’re talking about a 2-14, 3-13 season. He is not dynamic enough to bring them out of that. He gets a little long and a little high on his throws at times, the deep corners. I worry a little bit about his weight. Obviously, he’s probably in the best shape he’ll ever be in now.”

 

 “His stats kind of lie,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s working within the rhythm of that offense he can pick people apart. Makes it easy for him. When he gets pressured and things get in his face he’s not accurate and sprays the ball. He just can’t move his body around well enough in the pocket because he’s slow-footed. That will continue in the NFL. His movements remind me of Jameis Winston. He was an awkward athlete. He sprayed the ball over when he got pressured. Or Byron Leftwich. I just don’t see him as a constant playoff threat, the kind of quarterback you will have to worry about.”

 

 “When you see Dwayne have to throw from an NFL-type pocket, a muddled pocket, he is frantic,” said a fifth scout. “The accuracy changes. When it’s clean, yeah, he’s got a whip. Problem is when there’s inversions from different points. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, they’re exceptional working the pocket. I don’t see that with him. Can he develop it? I don’t know.”

 

Added a sixth scout: “No quarterback likes to get hit but I really don’t think he likes to get hit. That’s the biggest thing with Dwayne. He rushes the ball out of his hand a lot. Other guys are willing to hold that ball to the last (second) to let that route clear open. He didn’t show the willingness to do that. You can go almost entire games without seeing Dwayne Haskins on the ground.”

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^^^^should have went d Jones...at least he wouldn't have been booed at at a Nationals game...or would he? lol

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I get the point but it somewhat implies that Haskins is a slam dunk prospect who can only be derailed by coaching.  Awhile ago, I posted a longish report from Bob McGinn who quoted 6 different scouts about Haskins.  McGinn over the years has built himself a big reputation in the draft from the perspective of getting scouts to talk to him who end up predicting the draft fairly well. 

 

Not saying scouts can't be wrong but I think it gives a window into how people are all over the place on Haskins and is seen as a bit of a boom-bust prospect.  There were other QB needy teams who skipped over picking Haskins.  If Haskins was in a slam dunk category or close enough then that wouldn't have happened -- those type of QBs tend to go top 3.   The upside from our side of this is we'd have no shot at a slam dunk type prospect where we picked at 15.  So the perceived flaws about Haskins ended up being a godsend for the Redskins if Haskins ends up the real deal because otherwise they'd have no shot at him IMO.

 

It's a paid account so I can't provide a link to it but here where some of the highlights on Haskins. 

 

McGinn correctly picked 88 of the first 100 players selected in last week’s NFL draft and won The Huddle Report’s top-100 contest. The Huddle Report was second in its own contest with 87 points, while NFL Rough Draft, Draft Ace and College Football Metrics each had 86 in a contest that featured 49 entries.

“Bob McGinn and (former Dallas Morning News NFL writer) Rick Gosselin are the godfathers of mock drafting in our business,” said Peter King of NBC Sports. “Now that Rick has stepped away, we’re all aiming at Bob’s incredible accuracy.

 

The guy can throw the ball. Holy hell. Big-time arm. Accurate. He’s just not ready to be an NFL starter.”

Haskins is a pocket guy. He’s exactly what you want in the National Football League. Some day, (Patrick) Mahomes is going to get hurt. Deshaun Watson is always hurt. RGIII got hurt. This guy is special.” Passer rating of 123.2 in 2018.

 

“If he’s at his best he’s a bottom-15 QB in the NFL,” a third scout said. “Franchise quarterbacks make everybody better. He’s not that guy. He needs to be on a good team like he had at Ohio State. If he has no talent around him you’re talking about a 2-14, 3-13 season. He is not dynamic enough to bring them out of that. He gets a little long and a little high on his throws at times, the deep corners. I worry a little bit about his weight. Obviously, he’s probably in the best shape he’ll ever be in now.”

 

 “His stats kind of lie,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s working within the rhythm of that offense he can pick people apart. Makes it easy for him. When he gets pressured and things get in his face he’s not accurate and sprays the ball. He just can’t move his body around well enough in the pocket because he’s slow-footed. That will continue in the NFL. His movements remind me of Jameis Winston. He was an awkward athlete. He sprayed the ball over when he got pressured. Or Byron Leftwich. I just don’t see him as a constant playoff threat, the kind of quarterback you will have to worry about.”

 

 “When you see Dwayne have to throw from an NFL-type pocket, a muddled pocket, he is frantic,” said a fifth scout. “The accuracy changes. When it’s clean, yeah, he’s got a whip. Problem is when there’s inversions from different points. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, they’re exceptional working the pocket. I don’t see that with him. Can he develop it? I don’t know.”

 

Added a sixth scout: “No quarterback likes to get hit but I really don’t think he likes to get hit. That’s the biggest thing with Dwayne. He rushes the ball out of his hand a lot. Other guys are willing to hold that ball to the last (second) to let that route clear open. He didn’t show the willingness to do that. You can go almost entire games without seeing Dwayne Haskins on the ground.”

This is all good stuff, and kind of alarming. By no means did I mean to imply that Haskins has all the skills necessary but it seems he has a gun and a good head. Maybe Jeff George is his ceiling? Byron Leftwich? Jamarcus Russell? Big Ben? I remember Ben's rookie season, he couldn't do much, or at least wasn't asked to. When I talk about coaching I mean teaching him and managing him in games for his 1st season. Very specific play calling based on his skill set and lack of experience. Ideally I would do what KC did with Mahomes and sit him behind Case and Colt. Jamarcus was thrown to the wolves if I recall as were many other young QB's who weren't ready. We can't afford to do that we DH in my opinion.

 

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Weird that Haskins’ WRs went from undraftable playing with JT Barrett, an OSU legend, to becoming high draft picks in 2019 (the production of each WR pretty much doubled), yet Haskins is “not that guy” that can make everybody around him better. 

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2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Weird that Haskins’ WRs went from undraftable playing with JT Barrett, an OSU legend, to becoming high draft picks in 2019 (the production of each WR pretty much doubled), yet Haskins is “not that guy” that can make everybody around him better. 

 

The other side of that argument, they're saying the massive production bump was mostly due to promoted coach Ryan Day changing much of the offense.  I can see that, but that doesn't happen without Haskins either.  I think it's both at the same time. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

This is all good stuff, and kind of alarming. By no means did I mean to imply that Haskins has all the skills necessary but it seems he has a gun and a good head. Maybe Jeff George is his ceiling? Byron Leftwich? Jamarcus Russell? Big Ben? I remember Ben's rookie season, he couldn't do much, or at least wasn't asked to. When I talk about coaching I mean teaching him and managing him in games for his 1st season. Very specific play calling based on his skill set and lack of experience. Ideally I would do what KC did with Mahomes and sit him behind Case and Colt. Jamarcus was thrown to the wolves if I recall as were many other young QB's who weren't ready. We can't afford to do that we DH in my opinion.

 

 

I agree they got to pace Haskins properly and let him develop the right way.  As for his ceiling, I can go with a Phillip Rivers analogy.  To me his floor would be him being a bust.  I am more optimistic than pessimistic.  As I said on a recent post, if I am judging purely on beat reporters making comments about what they see so far -- Haskins upside and downside look almost to a tee to my thoughts watching his college games.  And plenty have said similar things about his college play.    

 

Based on those reports from camp, there is zero there that I noticed to reassure that Haskins weaknesses are overblown except some saying his footwork looks quicker than it did on tape.  Ditto, his strengths were on display in a big way, too.   I've come out of it more optimistic because I love hearing about his intangibles and work ethic which I think will help hopefully conquer those weaknesses.  My only caution in my own mind is I recall our 2012 rookie QB was billed also as having through the roof intangibles and a work ethic only to learn later from Shanny that the Qb didn't like to do film study.  But with Haskins, it feels different.  So I got a good feeling that the dude is indeed a workaholic.  And I do think work ethic is key for a talented Qb to take that next step.   

 

The impression I get listening to Jay is that they wanted to throw everything and the kitchen sink at him in minicamp so he knows what to prepare for in the next 6 weeks leading to training camp.  IMO that was smart.  If Haskins is indeed a studious type then I think it serves him well to give him a lot to think about for the next 6 weeks to prep. 

 

This article from Doug Farrar I link below IMO is a really good summary of his strengths and weaknesses.  A lot of draft geeks tend to gush or criticize - they pick a lane and stick with it. Farrar goes to town on what he thinks are Haskins strengths and weaknesses without landing hard on him being a boom or a bust.  

 

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/02/22/the-all-22-why-nfl-pressure-could-be-a-problem-for-dwayne-haskins/

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Man, I'm gonna wait and see but I'm leaning strongly in the direction of optimism. Just thinking about the comparisons above, Roeth and Rivers are obviously aspirational and we'd all welcome that. Leftwich was solid but couldn't stay healthy. JaMarcus and George were lazy, over-confident turds, and that's not a problem Haskins has, regardless of how he pans out.

 

HTTR!!!

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

This is all good stuff, and kind of alarming. By no means did I mean to imply that Haskins has all the skills necessary but it seems he has a gun and a good head. Maybe Jeff George is his ceiling? Byron Leftwich? Jamarcus Russell? Big Ben? I remember Ben's rookie season, he couldn't do much, or at least wasn't asked to. When I talk about coaching I mean teaching him and managing him in games for his 1st season. Very specific play calling based on his skill set and lack of experience. Ideally I would do what KC did with Mahomes and sit him behind Case and Colt. Jamarcus was thrown to the wolves if I recall as were many other young QB's who weren't ready. We can't afford to do that we DH in my opinion.

 

 

I think the bolded is key to a positive learning experience for Dwayne should he get in this year.

 

I keep seeing Haskins killed teams with rhythm... will Jay get his offense moving that fast?  I highly doubt it. Non end of half/late in a blowouts I think Jay went hurry up for 1 drive, and even then it was just a handful of plays.  What about going to heavy shotgun... not counting on it. Our best hope may be OCKOC pushing for running an offense catered to his strengths, versus making him run Jays 2012 Bengals offense.  Its not just play calling, its formations and pace.

Edited by RandyHolt

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14 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I think the bolded is key to a positive learning experience for Dwayne should he get in this year.

 

I keep seeing Haskins killed teams with rhythm... will Jay get his offense moving that fast?  I highly doubt it. Non end of half/late in a blowouts I think Jay went hurry up for 1 drive, and even then it was just a handful of plays.  What about going to heavy shotgun... not counting on it. Our best hope may be OCKOC pushing for running an offense catered to his strengths, versus making him run Jays 2012 Bengals offense.  Its not just play calling, its formations and pace.

I wonder if a conversation between Jay and Bruce/Dan needs to be had about playoffs or bust vs develop and teach for future success. The answer to that question could determine who the QB is this year cause it sounds like Case is way ahead of DH as he should be. In fact, if that question hasn't been addressed then there's something wrong with this organization.

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Interesting analysis. Not directed at you as I know someone else wrote this. But I am not sure I agree with some if it. Here is what and why. 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Edit

 

“If he’s at his best he’s a bottom-15 QB in the NFL,” a third scout said. “Franchise quarterbacks make everybody better. He’s not that guy. He needs to be on a good team like he had at Ohio State. If he has no talent around him you’re talking about a 2-14, 3-13 season. He is not dynamic enough to bring them out of that. He gets a little long and a little high on his throws at times, the deep corners. I worry a little bit about his weight. Obviously, he’s probably in the best shape he’ll ever be in now.”

 

This idea of him being out of shape or having some kind of weight issue is a bunch of garbage. As for having talent around him - he did make the guys around him better. He laso befitted from a system that works to his strengths but you still have to make throws. 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 “His stats kind of lie,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s working within the rhythm of that offense he can pick people apart. Makes it easy for him. When he gets pressured and things get in his face he’s not accurate and sprays the ball. He just can’t move his body around well enough in the pocket because he’s slow-footed. That will continue in the NFL. His movements remind me of Jameis Winston. He was an awkward athlete. He sprayed the ball over when he got pressured. Or Byron Leftwich. I just don’t see him as a constant playoff threat, the kind of quarterback you will have to worry about.”

 

So stats lie? LOL  That's the old - well I don;t care what the numbers say the eye test... blah blah blah. The stats are the stats. I do agree he struggles when pressured. But this just in, all QBs struggle when pressured. You get people in Tom Brady's face all day he will not as good. Peyton Manning was notorious for getting "happy feet" when he got relentless pressure. 

 

Don't get me wrong, I agree to a certain extent. He missed some opportunities and seemed a bit out of control when pressured. As for his foot work being slow - not sure if I would call it slow as much as awkward (which he does finally get too). He was not confident in what he wanted to do. More experience could help that - or it could be a fatal flaw. Time will tell. 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 “When you see Dwayne have to throw from an NFL-type pocket, a muddled pocket, he is frantic,” said a fifth scout. “The accuracy changes. When it’s clean, yeah, he’s got a whip. Problem is when there’s inversions from different points. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, they’re exceptional working the pocket. I don’t see that with him. Can he develop it? I don’t know.”

 

Same as above. I will say that this is where his lack of experience may be why he struggled. Also, if you watch all his games, he tended to get better at handling pressure as the season went along. Granted, he went from horrible to not quite as bad. But it was just one season of starting. 

 

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Added a sixth scout: “No quarterback likes to get hit but I really don’t think he likes to get hit. That’s the biggest thing with Dwayne. He rushes the ball out of his hand a lot. Other guys are willing to hold that ball to the last (second) to let that route clear open. He didn’t show the willingness to do that. You can go almost entire games without seeing Dwayne Haskins on the ground.”

 

What this is guy is suggesting is he panics and just throws the ball away too often. I guess you could make the argument that he throws all underneath stuff to get the ball except that he was 8th in yards per att with 9.1 yds. He also had an average of 10.3 air yards per completion. So he must run a lot then. Well he rushed an average of 6 times a game. That's vs. 38 pass atts/gm. Overall he had 533 pass atts in 14 gms with a 70% comp rate. 

 

I am not seeing the down side to this at all. I think this last guy just plain missed it. 

 

 

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4 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

What this is guy is suggesting is he panics and just throws the ball away too often.

 

 

As long as he's throwing the ball away, so nobody can catch it.

It's obviously not the ideal scenario, but I'll take an incompletion anyday, over a sack, or an interception from trying to force it.

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Posted (edited)
On 6/17/2019 at 10:49 AM, RandyHolt said:

 

Easy answer for him.... say whatever Tom Brady would say. 

 

Let's not overlook he destroyed teams last year with improper footwork.  DESTROYED THEM. Took the league by storm.  5000 yards 50 TDs.... good luck topping those numbers by twerking his feet. Everyone wants Mahomes and his shoddy footwork.

 

There is something to be said about getting rid of the damn ball, at the risk of heaven forbid ignoring Tom Brady's pocket passing guidelines.  Brady and his paltry 29 TDs. Pfft.  Defenses are SO aggressive now, QBs are foolish to blindly focus on proper mechanics with every throw. They have to survive first and foremost, and its done by (the heavily undervalued) improvising.  At the root of that, is knowing the exact moment of when to improvise. Too soon - benched. Too late - triple surgery.

 

Remember this post, if Mahomes stops improvising to properly position his feet on a pass, and gets his clock cleaned.

 

To whoever downplays the importance of a QB being able to improvise and throw on the run, yes not setting your feet, re-watch Mahomes's's'z highlights from last year.  Maybe watch a sack compilation of pocket passers getting clobbered/stripped/injured using proper mechanics, say behind a porous OL. Talk about ruining a young QB.... always set your feeee.... Oh **** WATCH OUT FOR MIKE UNBLOCKED NO DANNY NO FML.

 

Perhaps at the root of QBs failing is the fine line they need to walk between always maintaining proper mechanics they are told is the highest priority, and the inevitable improvising / surviving. The young QB buys in the what the OC is selling yet the OL can't block for **** through a goose. They spend their summer working on their footwork, only to get punched in the mouth in week 1.

 

Yeah I concede this guy didn't set his feet before the throw.

 

 

 

A couple observations here.

 

Mahomes doesn't have poor footwork these days. It's actually pretty decent but obviously it can be improved and it's something he wants to refine. His footwork is WAY better than it was in college. If you watch tape of him from his 2016 season at Texas Tech and then watch tape from his 2018 NFL season, his footwork is light years better than it was in college. It's really obvious that he worked on it a ton with Reid and company during 2017 and 2018 leading up to the season. 

 

Another thing is that resetting your feet doesn't really have to take that long. Brady and Brees do it lightning quick and Mahomes already has quick feet so I don't see any reason why he can't practice resetting quickly when need be. Learning to reset his feet faster doesn't automatically mean he's suddenly going to start getting crushed every other time he drops back. 

 

This whole thing isn't binary, like "either he sticks to improvising or he focuses on making sure his footwork is right". He'll still be able to do both but having his footwork better will help his game. 

 

On 6/17/2019 at 2:31 PM, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

My biggest criticism and argument against Daniel Jones deals with his Out routes.  I don't think he's got an NFL caliber arm and can hit those.  I think he's a bit like Colt McCoy in that his offense will need to be tailored over the middle of the field a bit more and less along the sideline.  His ceiling for total potential, is far below someone like Aaron Rodgers who can spend an entire game carving up defenses along the sideline.

 

There were too many plays I saw with Jones where his throw on an Out route was almost picked at the college level.  Take that to the NFL, and some of those are going to be Pick 6's. I think his arm strength is better than Colt, but worse than Kirk Cousins.  I don't think he's got a "make-all-the-throws" NFL caliber arm.  That's not to say he can't still be a pretty good QB.  His size, athleticism, and toughness are all good to great.  He's a touch pass thrower, and some pretty good quarterbacks (Phillip Rivers, aging-but-still-good Peyton) have had success with mostly touch passes.

 

I think his odds for bust/success are not in his favor.  We all know environment in the NFL matters for development.  But if the right personnel, scheme, etc gets put around him, it'll flip the odds back in his favor.  I just don't know how easy or hard it'll be to get that. 

 

 

I take you think pre-season priority #1 for the team is re-sign Scherff?  If you had the choice for letting Scherff contract stuff wait until after the season and giving Trent some more money to make him happy (if that'll do it), ...or extending Scherff now and then trading Trent.  Which would it be?

 

One of the things that I noticed over and over when watching cutups of Daniel Jones is that he has a propensity to stare down his receivers. And sometimes it's, like, REALLY bad. IMO that's one of the main reasons behind his batted balls and some of his more egregious interceptions. It never made sense to me why he had so many batted balls as a 6'5 dude but after watching his cutups I totally understood it. He'd stare a guy down and the D Lineman would read it all the way and just be waiting to jump up into the passing lane. 

 

5 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Weird that Haskins’ WRs went from undraftable playing with JT Barrett, an OSU legend, to becoming high draft picks in 2019 (the production of each WR pretty much doubled), yet Haskins is “not that guy” that can make everybody around him better. 

 

JT Barrett may be an OSU legend in a way but he wasn't anywhere near the QB talent that Haskins is. He didn't even get drafted and I think DH's draft floor was 2nd round. As someone else mentioned, OSU's offense also underwent some major changes once Day was promoted to full time OC. I think the OSU WRs productivity increasing has multiple factors. Better QB, better scheme, etc. 

 

Also, who said that after 2017 that they were "undraftable"?

Edited by mistertim
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kingdaddy said:

I wonder if a conversation between Jay and Bruce/Dan needs to be had about playoffs or bust vs develop and teach for future success. The answer to that question could determine who the QB is this year cause it sounds like Case is way ahead of DH as he should be. In fact, if that question hasn't been addressed then there's something wrong with this organization.

 

Good post. I doubt Jay has talked much to Bruce about the plan, if Bruce's media appearances are any indication of his communication skills. There is something wrong with this team duh!

 

A different angle. If they are committed to Dwayne, they need to show it.  Letting him hold Jay's clipboard for a year, only to see Jay get fired, is likely a year wasted and may prove to make the pick itself, wasted. Suppose the new coach doesn't like his skill set? Like Jay and RG3.  Oops.

 

I more and more think a team and coach either need to commit to doing everything to support the QB, vs hoping the QB becomes something he was not.  You know what, a raw kid like Dwayne may never be 100% ready (to traditional ready standards). He has to play to learn.

 

OSU implemented a pro style offense just for Dwayne. Yes a QBs success or failure is that important, that is wise to make everyone else learn his playbook sometimes. The NFL is ALL about QB play so maybe every single thing that can be done to support him, is THE thing to do.  Since when is holding a clipboard the key to developing a QB?  If sitting was the answer we would already know it.

 

I feel pretty confident while catering to young QB is very common now in the NFL (compared to the stoneage of QB development we witnessed for much of our lifetimes) that Jay has no intention of changing his offense much.  Again, the wildcard here is OCKOC. Did he get the keys to the offense, or did he get handed Jay's playbook and told to just call plays from it.

 

 

Edited by RandyHolt

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5 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Weird that Haskins’ WRs went from undraftable playing with JT Barrett, an OSU legend, to becoming high draft picks in 2019 (the production of each WR pretty much doubled), yet Haskins is “not that guy” that can make everybody around him better. 

Completely different offensive scheme. 

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32 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

So stats lie? LOL  That's the old - well I don;t care what the numbers say the eye test... blah blah blah. The stats are the stats. I do agree he struggles when pressured. But this just in, all QBs struggle when pressured. You get people in Tom Brady's face all day he will not as good. Peyton Manning was notorious for getting "happy feet" when he got relentless pressure. 

 

 

The stats themselves aren't lies or anything but just taking one number without factoring in other variables can lead to a wrong, or at least incomplete, conclusion. When it comes to Haskins you have to take into account a few other factors when you're looking at something like his completion percentage. It was very high, but he also had an extremely low Average Depth of Target, especially when compared with the other draft-likely QBs in the 2019 class...IIRC it was something like 7.9, which is really low. Combine that with an offensive system that we know relied a ton on shallow crossers and mesh concepts, along with a stable full of 4.3 receivers, and it's not a stretch to say that his numbers may have been inflated to a degree. 

 

And yes, all QBs will struggle under tons of pressure. But Haskins played his single college season behind an elite OL and when he got even moderate pressure (especially up the middle...he was actually not bad against edge pressure) his play dipped pretty dramatically. Now that doesn't mean he can't or won't correct that. But it's true and you can see it when you watch his cutups. That being said, he did seem to get a bit better as the season went on so I'm hopeful. But that is one of the reasons I'm super wary about them throwing him to the wolves from day 1. No college QB has had to deal with NFL level pass rushes before, but Haskins more than most has had to deal with little pressure in general. NFL pass rushes, especially with a mediocre OL, could really screw with him and cause problems if he goes in before he's at least somewhat ready.

Edited by mistertim
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49 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

Interesting analysis. Not directed at you as I know someone else wrote this. But I am not sure I agree with some if it. Here is what and why. 

 

McGinn is famous for getting some of the upper echelon scouts albeit he never reveals who they are. If I recall McGinn had the most accurate top 100 big board match to what actually happened in the draft.  So whichever scouts he taps into -- they tend to have a good pulse for the league for better or worse.

 

Now that doesn't mean the scouts are right. Just saying their opinions I'd bet have some serious thought behind it.    2 of his scouts loved Haskins.  1 thought he was so so.  3 didn't care for him.  The mixed opinion from scout to scout is somewhat consistent in general from what some national reporters like Breer, Schrager and others have said as to what they are hearing from their sources about all the top prospects from the last QB class with the exception of Murray.

 

I don't want to delve too deep into your challenge of Haskins' critics because then I'll look like I am beating Haskins down and that's not what am doing by quoting those scouts.  I'll just say this.  The idea that Haskins might not be the best at keeping himself in shape -- I've heard that said from at least three other draft geek types who have heard rumblings about it including from even people who were high on Haskins. I talked about it back then on the draft thread.  That doesn't mean its true but just saying that scout isn't on island on it. 

 

As for Haskins stats, I get where the scout is coming from on that point.  Personally, Haskins stats one way or another don't move me that much.   Stats move me more when they are negative.   In other words, I am concerned when some guys like Jake Locker with questionable stats in college are projected to be studs in the NFL.  It's not easy to elevate for being a 56% completion guy in college to lets say a 65% guy in the pros.  It's actually part of the soup of why I am not a Daniel Jones guy.  But there are plenty of yawn level prospects with great college stats see Kellen Moore and a host of others.  

 

Circling this back to a positive 😀.  And let me preface this that I don't mean this with a whit of sarcasm.  I celebrate that Haskins is a question mark and that there is some obvious bust potential among the boom.  Why?  We'd have no shot at him at 15 otherwise.  I recall saying on the draft thread early on I wasn't even going to bother looking at Haskins closely because we'd have no shot at him at 15 considering early on he was lauded as a high first round pick.  i was also jealous thinking that the Giants would land him.    As the draft process progressed, it was tough to notice that Haskins' star was falling some. 

 

I read the NY papers regularly and some (but not all) of the Giant beat reporters started saying the Giants have heavily scouted Haskins and poked around on him and they decided they don't dig him.  After getting that vibe, I decided to finally delve in and watch him.  And as I said on the draft thread I thought at his best Haskins' peaks were higher than the other QBs (sans Murray) and were fun to watch but his valley's concerned me and I got it as for why there was a growing feeling about draft geeks that he could slip out of the top 10.

 

In short, I initially thought their draft position being at 15 was a disaster if they wanted to draft a QB.    So Haskins having some flaws in the soup and having his critics helped him fall to 15.  I didn't love the pick when it happened.  But I liked it better when they were able to get Sweat, too.  Still didn't love it though.  But over time i've learned to like it more not so much because I am reassured about any concerns. However, I am reassured to a degree because I love hearing about his work ethic.   But I've learned to like the pick more because its fun to at least have a QB with some real potential.  You need a QB to win in this league.  Haskins is a lottery ticket on that front.  I am far from 100% confident that we end up winning the lottery here.  But i am enjoying the thought that we at least could win the lottery.  As one article stated the last time the Redskins hit on a first round QB it was the 1930s.  So if they get this right it likely will be a big deal and a franchise changing pick.   So I got my fingers crossed. 😀  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

A different angle. If they are committed to Dwayne, they need to show it.  Letting him hold Jay's clipboard for a year, only to see Jay get fired, is likely a year wasted and may prove to make the pick itself, wasted. Suppose the new coach doesn't like his skill set? Like Jay and RG3.  Oops.

 

I more and more think a team and coach either need to commit to doing everything to support the QB, vs hoping the QB becomes something he was not.  You know what, a raw kid like Dwayne may never be 100% ready (to traditional ready standards). He has to play to learn.

 

OSU implemented a pro style offense just for Dwayne. Yes a QBs success or failure is that important, that is wise to make everyone else learn his playbook sometimes. The NFL is ALL about QB play so maybe every single thing that can be done to support him, is THE thing to do.  Since when is holding a clipboard the key to developing a QB?  If sitting was the answer we would already know it.

 

I feel pretty confident while catering to young QB is very common now in the NFL (compared to the stoneage of QB development we witnessed for much of our lifetimes) that Jay has no intention of changing his offense much.  Again, the wildcard here is OCKOC. Did he get the keys to the offense, or did he get handed Jay's playbook and told to just call plays from it.

 

 

 

I cannot agree with you.  First, I don't want the team to cast Haskins as the starter like they did Griffin.  Second, I don't want the Skins to dummy down their WCO in order to rush Haskins on the field.  I want them to prepare Haskins for the opportunity to become the starter when he is ready, when he is ready to run a WCO, which may not be this season.

 

I don't know what we have in Haskins but he has very limited experience as a 1 year college starter in what Cooley described as a very simple scheme.  It will be a big step to ingest and operate the Redskins offense and Haskins should be given the time to learn it.  We don't want Haskins thrown in before he's ready and standing clueless in the pocket like Griffin did waiting to see a receiver break open because he doesn't understand things well enough to anticipate and throw to the open spot on time. 

 

The Skins have 2 veteran QBs on the payroll to start in 2019 and hopefully Keenum takes the lead and Dwayne Haskins gets a chance to absorb the thick playbook and complicated NFL defensive schemes in the safety of the film room, practice field and sidelines until he understands enough to have a fighting chance of performing decently.  This of course assumes he will have a functioning OL to protect him, sadly that wasn't the case in Washington the last two seasons and may not be again this year.  

 

 

Edited by Veryoldschool

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2 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Completely different offensive scheme. 

 

Albeit, it was a very small sample size, but he actually put up extremely similar efficiency numbers the year before, in a "completely different offensive scheme":

 

2017

70.2 completion %

10.5 AY/A

4:1 TD/INT ratio

173.1 passer rating

 

2018

70.0 completion %

10.3 AY/A

5:1 TD/INT ratio

174.1 passer rating

 

We'll never know for sure, but I'm going to go ahead and guess Dwayne and his WRs would have been just fine if they had played in the previous year's system during 2018.  It was the QB much more-so than the scheme that elevated his WRs last year.

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3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

But Haskins played his single college season behind an elite OL 

 

Elite OL?  Since when?

 

I agree that he was bad against interior pressure last year.  But that OL was not elite.  We're not talking about Oklahoma, Alabama, or Georgia here.  Ohio State had two OL drafted this year with four starters leaving - one in the 4th round, and one in the 6th round.  Compare that to Oklahoma, who had players drafted in the 2nd round, 3rd round, 4th round, and 4th round again (the center was a RS freshman).  

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