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Leftover observations from minicamp: 1) The Redskins absolutely need Trent Williams back, which should be obvious. It's very hard to measure the play of the OL or DL without pads, but it's hard to imagine Ereck Flowers being a viable option at this point. I'm not sold on him as a LG, but we'll see more in camp; poor technique at one spot doesn't turn into good technique at another. But we'll learn more in August. 2) Rookie QB Dwayne Haskins makes some throws that reveal his special arm talent; and then other times he'll fail to get his feet turned to make a throw under duress, leading to poor throws. The key for him will be quickening his reads to give his feet more time to turn. Sometimes those throws, even with his feet turned elsewhere, work. Sometimes. But the talent is obvious. 3) Trey Quinn didn't practice Thursday, but overall seems to have had a good spring. He'll be a factor; he's tough. But they will need to see who can back him up. They have young options, but all unproven. 4) I've enjoyed watching Domonique Rodgers-Cromartie. He's a smart, savvy vet who will make others better. If a receiver does not sell a certain route, he will not bite. That's good for the young wideouts, such as Terry McLaurin. Coaches will focus on his ability to change speeds to con the corner. Rodgers-Cromartie isn't easily fooled. Entering camp, he appears to be someone who can have a range of value – as a mentor and someone who shares information with offensive guys (including Haskins). He can play slot corner and outside and will rotate to safety in various coverages (no, not full-time).

 
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John Keim, ESPN Staff Writer4h ago
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Everything I've read is pretty much exactly what I expected. You cannot expect Haskins to look great as a rookie when our top 3 to 5 DL is going up against possibly a bottom 5 OL without Trent. Hes putting in the extra reps, and apparently hasnt made the same mistake twice which is pretty incredible. Case will be the starter to begin this year and there's nothing wrong with that, Haskins is the future but he needs to be better than Case before he sees the field. 

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2 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Everything I've read is pretty much exactly what I expected. You cannot expect Haskins to look great as a rookie when our top 3 to 5 DL is going up against possibly a bottom 5 OL without Trent. Hes putting in the extra reps, and apparently hasnt made the same mistake twice which is pretty incredible. Case will be the starter to begin this year and there's nothing wrong with that, Haskins is the future but he needs to be better than Case before he sees the field. 

 

Yeah, none of this is surprising to me either. Footwork issues, reacting faster, and issues with pressure were all things that many people guessed he'd have issues with and it seems to be pretty true. Some of that is basic rookie stuff but some is compounded by lack of experience and somewhat shoddy footwork to begin with. I'd be pretty shocked if Keenum isn't the starter week 1. If Haskins improves enough and Keenum isn't doing well then I'm fine with him going in at some point in the season. However, I'd also be absolutely fine with him sitting a year. That's all up to the coaches though...if they feel he's ready then I'd like to see what he can do.

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6 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

apparently hasnt made the same mistake twice which is pretty incredible. 

 

That’s just something coaches say, he made a million mistakes & there isn’t likely one of them he made just once. The cliche is used to praise a kids mind, it’s not literal. 

 

I agree with you on the overall take away, he was precisely as expected, a very inexperienced rookie with very obvious issues and very obvious talent. 

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So the coaches have a firm grasp of what his issues are right now, and what they're likely to be for a while.  How do we call plays to hide those issues?

 

Is a functional offense capable of hiding the issues with our o-line minus Trent?  We know nothing of Christian yet.

 

OTA's haven't answered much, just shown that yes...it's a QB competition.  Well that and Ereck Flowers was a poor use of 1.5 million guaranteed.  I kind of want to know who was responsible for signing him.  Who pushed for it?

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I wouldnt put him out there this season if we dont have stability on the line. I mean we just watched 2 guys get their legs broken. I would rather Keenum take the hits and try to fix the line in the offseason. 

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Cleveland was in sorta the same boat last year, veteran QB in Tyrod with Mayfield watching. If Case starts sucking or losing games all of us are going to grow restless and want to see Haskins play, unless the line is completely decimated. It’s easy to say now to sit him but eventually we will all want to see what the kid does 

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Stock up

Case Keenum

Keenum got better... and better... and better each time he took the field for the 'Skins. Dwayne Haskins will always have the brighter moments, but Keenum was way more steady than the rookie and dealt with pressure far better than No. 7.

Was that necessarily surprising? Of course not; Keenum's a 31-year-old vet and Haskins has been in the NFL for a little more than a month. But Keenum now looks like he's in the lead for the starting job, even though Gruden wouldn't admit it.

 

Cam Sims

The second-year wideout was a bit of an overlooked option thanks to the return of Trey Quinn and the arrivals of Terry McLaurin and Kelvin Harmon. Sims' passers sure didn't overlook him in the three mandatory sessions, however.

It wasn't always precise and the catch wasn't always the smoothest, but No. 89 repeatedly got open and repeatedly made grabs, including a few huge ones, on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. Wideouts will always be easy to notice in minicamp action, but Sims was extra easy thanks to his consistency. 

 

Jimmy Moreland

The seventh-round corner was known as a ballhawk at James Madison, and he's done plenty of ballhawking so far in the offseason.

While Moreland did the majority of his damage at May OTAs, he did just steal a ball from Sims on the goal line on Thursday for a clutch pick. He seems to be a favorite of Gruden — the head coach chirps at him constantly — and he's quickly gaining ground on the second-year CBs he's battling. 

 

Others who boosted their stock: Terry McLaurin, Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, Montez Sweat

 

Stock down

Ereck Flowers

No wonder Flowers is on his third team already and will eventually work inside at guard when the O-line is more filled out. He looked incredibly overmatched subbing in at left tackle, and borderline got in the way of the offense getting meaningful reps at times because he was beaten so often.

In fact, Washington tried to claim an ex-Browns tackle on Friday, but the Cardinals beat them to it. That definitely has a lot to do with the Trent Williams situation, but Flowers' issues had to have factored in, too.

Adonis Alexander

Alexander isn't on this list because he played poorly. He's on this list because he didn't play much at all.

The 2018 supplemental pick dealt with a groin issue that kept him out of 11-on-11 work, so he was inactive while Moreland, Rodgers-Cromartie and Greg Stroman all got quality time with new secondary coach Ray Horton. He has unique size as a DB, but he needs to show he can produce — and soon.

 

Others who saw their stock drop: Josh Doctson, Troy Apke, Jehu Chesson 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/minicamp-stock-stock-down-which-redskins-stood-out-right-and-wrong-reasons

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Mitch Tischler (sp?) has footage of Haskins working out on the field after the end of OTA’s.  He’s working hard.

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Posted (edited)

Again, I am in the camp of give young QBs time and don't care if Haskins is ready for game 1 -- so don't shoot the messenger 😀  I am just relaying what I heard on some podcasts for those interested. 

 

Caught up with a Finlay podcast, Springs on 106.7 and Sheenan podcast with Cooley on it.

 

Finlay suggested Keenan was distinctly the better QB in camp.   Haskins flashing the better arm.  But Keenum is distinctly more accurate and handles pressure better.  So he's in the camp of give Haskins more time and on a different podcast suggested that he now thinks Keenum starts. 

 

Shawn Springs, who is close with Haskins, said on 106.7 more or less said he doesn't think Haskins should play at all this season.  He isn't impressed with the roster (though he thinks the FO is) and doesn't think Haskins has the playmakers to succeed in year 1.   Louis Reddick, huge fan of Haskins, doesn't want Haskins to start either and he's cool with him sitting out year 1 -- I noticed he's not in love with the Redskins roster either.  But the kicker to me for that is on an NFL live show he was asked to rank teams who weren't good last year as to improving and he had the Giants among others as better teams than the Redskins. 

 

Cooley said among the people he talked to about Haskins, they are impressed with his arm talent in a big way and they liked his personality-leadership skills.  The negative is the emphasis from people he spoke to is that he's slow in learning the offense.  And it's going slower than they would have liked.  And its being continuously said when he asks.  He implied that's not standard speak about a young QB per se -- that is, if a young QB is picking things up faster than expected or something like that -- that would be the emphasis. By that he doesn't mean that its a concern as for it being a permanent issue but that not every young QB is slammed for this by default just because they are young.  He said he's hearing repeatedly that his arm is impressive and likewise hearing repeatedly that he's slower than they'd have liked thus far as to picking up the offense.

 

On another note, Cooley also heard that they think Sweat is phenomenal.   He thinks the receiver position is a free for all right now.   He likes the young receivers especially Harmon but not sure they got a #1 on their roster.   He thinks Moreland has a good chance to be the starting nickel. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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And I believe we are where we want to be. Haskins has talent, he could become _________ (fill in the blank), but he's a rook, a helluva rook but still a rook. Right now is when you want to see the seams, to see him working to assimilate the gameplan and building that chemistry with others. He has shown before that he learns, he applies the coaching to his game, he can grow over the arc of a season, but that was then, this is now. Let him learn and grow and hone his talents while at the same time the coaches craft a plan that fits him. Keenum is a capable QB, we should be able to field a legit O, especially if the D actually is what they appear to be. That ole forest for the trees thing, if our D can force 3-n-outs/ turnovers/TFLs, etc. consistently, can dictate to opponents instead of playing from behind all the time, the burden on the O gets far less oppressive. I want to see Haskins play when he's ready, not when public opinion or angst makes it happen.

 

 

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Cooley also said Keenum has been slow learning the offense as well, when asked by Sheehan. Just for some context. He also said he doesn’t see it as a massive issue at this point b/c he has all summer to pick it up. 

 

But, as someone who has been beating the drum that Haskins should sit all year, I view this as good news. 

 

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Keenum plays until team is no longer in playoff hunt. Makes too much sense for this not to happen; Gruden final year of deal, Bruce feeling team is ready for a Super Bowl run ;), and potential of Skins winning in trenches consistently. 

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I don’t want to take the wind out of anyone’s sails, but it looks more and more unlikely that we see Haskins in year one.  But it’s still early.

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On 6/8/2019 at 10:27 PM, Vanguard said:

Mitch Tischler (sp?) has footage of Haskins working out on the field after the end of OTA’s.  He’s working hard.

 

One of the best things about him, if he fails it won’t be because he failed to give it all he was capable of giving. He’s been doing that work since he was about 6.. literally, 6 years old or so. 

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3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Again, I am in the camp of give young QBs time and don't care if Haskins is ready for game 1 -- so don't shoot the messenger 😀  I am just relaying what I heard on some podcasts for those interested. 

 

Caught up with a Finlay podcast, Springs on 106.7 and Sheenan podcast with Cooley on it.

 

Finlay suggested Keenan was distinctly the better QB in camp.   Haskins flashing the better arm.  But Keenum is distinctly more accurate and handles pressure better.  So he's in the camp of give Haskins more time and on a different podcast suggested that he now thinks Keenum starts. 

 

Shawn Springs, who is close with Haskins, said on 106.7 more or less said he doesn't think Haskins should play at all this season.  He isn't impressed with the roster (though he thinks the FO is) and doesn't think Haskins has the playmakers to succeed in year 1.   Louis Reddick, huge fan of Haskins, doesn't want Haskins to start either and he's cool with him sitting out year 1 -- I noticed he's not in love with the Redskins roster either.  But the kicker to me for that is on an NFL live show he was asked to rank teams who weren't good last year as to improving and he had the Giants among others as better teams than the Redskins. 

 

Cooley said among the people he talked to about Haskins, they are impressed with his arm talent in a big way and they liked his personality-leadership skills.  The negative is the emphasis from people he spoke to is that he's slow in learning the offense.  And it's going slower than they would have liked.  And its being continuously said when he asks.  He implied that's not standard speak about a young QB per se -- that is, if a young QB is picking things up faster than expected or something like that -- that would be the emphasis. By that he doesn't mean that its a concern as for it being a permanent issue but that not every young QB is slammed for this by default just because they are young.  He said he's hearing repeatedly that his arm is impressive and likewise hearing repeatedly that he's slower than they'd have liked thus far as to picking up the offense.

 

On another note, Cooley also heard that they think Sweat is phenomenal.   He thinks the receiver position is a free for all right now.   He likes the young receivers especially Harmon but not sure they got a #1 on their roster.   He thinks Moreland has a good chance to be the starting nickel. 

 

He is who he is, those who expected anything else were not evaluating him rationally. Again, 15 starts ago he was playing a team like Churchill, now he’s set to play the Eagles to open 2019? That’s crazier than people think. There is a way to help him, it’s unconventional and sends the ESers into a frenzy, but it’s the correct way to manage this particular asset. That, of course, assumes we are going to give him reasonable protection... without that, playing him would be foolish. 

 

Haskins issues are real, there were obvious. Haskins gifts are elite, they are obvious. To improve the former and free the latter he has to be protected or he’ll throw into zone coverages all year and get pummeled. 

 

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1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

If Keenum struggles in the regular season don’t sit Haskins all year 

 

I think some of it depends on why Keenum is struggling. If it's because our OL is depleted and he's getting thrown around like a rag doll then no, definitely don't put Haskins in...that would be the absolute worst situation. If it's simply because Keenum isn't all that talented and he's just playing poorly then I'd be fine with it as long as the coaching staff thinks Haskins is ready.

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20 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think some of it depends on why Keenum is struggling. If it's because our OL is depleted and he's getting thrown around like a rag doll then no, definitely don't put Haskins in...that would be the absolute worst situation. If it's simply because Keenum isn't all that talented and he's just playing poorly then I'd be fine with it as long as the coaching staff thinks Haskins is ready.

 

I agree.  At that point, I’d be willing to live with Haskins growing pains and just  playing good defense.

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3 hours ago, wit33 said:

Keenum plays until team is no longer in playoff hunt. Makes too much sense for this not to happen; Gruden final year of deal, Bruce feeling team is ready for a Super Bowl run ;), and potential of Skins winning in trenches consistently. 

 

I think you're going to be sorely disappointed on this. If we are falling out of playoff contention with Keenum, right or wrong Gruden is going to be on the hot seat and feeling it big time. At some point there will come a time when Gruden's best bet to keep his job will be to show he can light a spark with the team's exciting young high pedigree QB--and he'll want to try to convince the team that he's the best man to trust to keep fanning that flame. 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I am disappointed to hear Haskins has been slow to pick up Jay's offense. But only because it tells me Jay is not going to cater his offense to him. At least is not early, and it's ok to give him the playbook and see how much he can digest, for sure.  At the core of this thread is his proper development, but how is it best to do with a coach not under contract for next year.

 

In Jay's defense he has a lot on the line and doesn't want to change his playbook in what may well be his final year.  The more often that I hear that he is struggling to learn Jay's playbook, the more concerned I become. In large part, because with our OL in shambles and WRs not far behind, we are going to be closer to an overall #1 than a wild card.

 

Dwayne may very well spend his first year watching/learning Jay's playbook and have it burned at the end of year.  Our shiny new OCKOC may become our head coach in the spirit of Sean McVay, or he may well be gone, too. 

 

Is that likely coaching and playbook carousel what is best for his development?  

 

I need stats on bust rates of QBs that were forced to learn a new playbook X years in a row.

Edited by RandyHolt
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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

 

Dwayne may very well spend his first year watching/learning Jay's playbook and have it burned at the end of year.  Our shiny new OCKOC may become our head coach in the spirit of Sean McVay, or he may well be gone, too. 

 

Is that likely coaching and playbook carousel what is best for his development?  

 

I need stats on bust rates of QBs that were forced to learn a new playbook X years in a row.

 

Based on what's being said Dwayne is learning to call the plays and the protections, etc and it's taking time.  He'd have verbiage no matter what offense he's running.  I am sure it will come in time.  It would be just like anyone of us learning a new language.   Agree a carousel isn't good for Haskins.  But I suspect if they let Jay go and Bruce stays after this season -- Dan won't be attracting any hot shot coaches anyway who'd want to coach here and would have to hire from within so I think O'Connell is the guy.

 

20 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

He is who he is, those who expected anything else were not evaluating him rationally. Again, 15 starts ago he was playing a team like Churchill, now he’s set to play the Eagles to open 2019? That’s crazier than people think. There is a way to help him, it’s unconventional and sends the ESers into a frenzy, but it’s the correct way to manage this particular asset. That, of course, assumes we are going to give him reasonable protection... without that, playing him would be foolish. 

 

Haskins issues are real, there were obvious. Haskins gifts are elite, they are obvious. To improve the former and free the latter he has to be protected or he’ll throw into zone coverages all year and get pummeled. 

 

 

I think the O line is the paper tiger of this team.  It's done the team in 2 years in row because of injury prone starters and poor depth behind them.  They got rid of one of the injury prone starters but the depth now is arguable even worse.  Ty was a bit of the unsung hero here IMO -- bailing out Trent for give or take 25% of the season and subbing in for Moses when he got hurt during the game and even stepping in at guard.  PFF had him if I recall the top ranked run blocker on the line.   

 

My point is Bruce or whomever can talk about how snakebitten they are if for the third year in a row the O line falls apart -- but its not hard to see it coming a mile away.  I made a similar point last off season.  You aren't snake bitten when you key spot arguably for offensive success has injury prone players and or players coming off major injuries and with questionable depth.  We are headed to rodeo year #3 for that ride.  And I wouldn't be shocked if rodeo #3 ends just like the first 2.  This for a position that arguably continuity is the most important because the position works very in synch. 

 

And I agree Haskins needs good protection.  He is a young pocket passer with great arm talent but who arguably struggled throwing on the move and dealing with pressure (ironically that's the reports from camp thus far, too) at Ohio State.  He needs time to develop and needs protection.  And that's before even delving into them not having a true #1 receiver among other things.  

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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