2019 NFL Draft discussion thread

[RandyHolt]

I read that our organizational tug of war was actually a 3 way: Dan/Bruce vs Jay vs Scouting Folk - only us.

 

About the immobile thing let me add this. If he was highly mobile, we'd be hearing about how he is not a pure pocket passer, and he will likely get injured running so much.  In the old school NFL to which Jay subscribes, a pocket passer is a good thing.

 

I do think its a bit ironic to imply a 23 year kid has no mobility. And for it to be a negative in a era when guys like Brady and Manning are the best QBs out there, and of course had no wheels.

 

He can move, he is just a big rig. More important to me is pocket awareness and sliding around away from pressure. When the seas part and a QB can scramble, more important than pure speed may be durability and knowing how to slide.

[Anselmheifer]

36 minutes ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

Right.  It's a solid pick.  I was just hoping to get a true impact potential All-pro.  

 

I wanted Derwin last year.  We passed and got a B+ player.  I am happy with Payne and Sweat as building blocks for a very good defense.  We still lack that true "OMG what are we going to do about him?" player.

 

I hear you. I also wanted an all pro. Maybe Burns will be better. It wouldn't surprise me. On the other hand, we really needed a QB and one was available at 15. 

Highly regarded pass rushers go in the first half of the first, and often top 10. We weren't getting a pass rusher better than Montez Sweat for the price of two seconds. The move made sense not just because of talent, but positional value. The move gives us a very solid pass rusher and means that we don't have to look to made a need based pick at that spot next year in the 1st. Put another way, Sweat was BPA, and now we are more likely to be able to go BPA next year in the 1st as well. 

[Forehead]

3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Enjoy this while you can now because mark my words you'll be caterwauling about the Skin's misfortune when the line breaks down for the third year in a row.  Atlanta will prosper this year behind their rebuilt line while the Skins suck hit tit with a broken down line again.

 

You might be right although for the time being, Atlanta has been roundly graded as having reached out both of their choices, while the Skins got high marks for theirs.  I'm on record as not caring for Haskins but we got the need and value correct.  There are still really good lineman available, though I don't know how many will be left by the time we pick in the 3rd.

[Rufus T Firefly]

https://slate.com/culture/2019/04/giants-draft-daniel-jones-laughter-ensues.html

[VaK9Trainer]

I'm probably going to get roasted for this but I've been thinking hard about it.  Greedy Williams is still on the board at CB. This is a guy who was projected by most to go top 10-15 in the 1st round and he's still on the board. We are in Win Now mode. With that being said, Norman is not getting any younger and his salary next year (if I'm not mistaken) is going to be outrageous. So, here's my thought. Trade someone our first round pick in 2020 and grab Greedy now. We may be looking CB in the 1st next year anyway so why not grab a guy now with his talent?  Then, about mid way through the 2nd, if they're still on the board, trade those two 3rd round picks and move up for Deebo Samuel or Hakeem Butler.  We'd still have 5 picks left. 2 in the 5th, 1 in the 6th and 2 in the 7th to try to grab some depth. We'd be pretty stacked in this scenario. 

[Forehead]

Yeah, but we also wouldn't have 1st or 2nd rounders next year.  I'm of the belief that you can trade those every once in awhile, but I don't think you can be successful skipping the first half of any draft, that's just asking for worse roster holes.

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, VaK9Trainer said:

I'm probably going to get roasted for this

[VaK9Trainer]

Just now, Forehead said:

Yeah, but we also wouldn't have 1st or 2nd rounders next year.  I'm of the belief that you can trade those every once in awhile, but I don't think you can be successful skipping the first half of any draft, that's just asking for worse roster holes.

 

True, but you're filling a hole This year that you're probably going to have to fill next year anyway. 

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

 

Haha.  I was waiting for that.

 

[Forehead]

I guess, I just like the idea of a steady flow of talent each year.  For what it's worth, I also didn't like the draft where we had 10+ picks, the Thomas-David-Kelly fiasco.  Not because no one panned out, but because that usually means you shorted yourself some other draft or two, to get that many picks, or so many players left that you wound up with a bunch of comps.  Unless you're the Patriots, who always seem to trade down and have 3-4 2nd round picks every year.  I don't like draft pick numbers that look like a seismograph, I'd prefer to see the same 7-8 every year, and not all in the 4th round or later.

 

I'm aware this is just me, and that it probably sounds irrational.

[skinfan2k]

I'm not sure how we were able to trade back into the 1st without giving up next year's first.  We basically gave up a 2nd rounder next year. 

[Forehead]

1 minute ago, skinfan2k said:

I'm not sure how we were able to trade back into the 1st without giving up next year's first.  We basically gave up a 2nd rounder next year. 

 

Yeah, I was surprised by that myself.  As soon as I saw us pop up in Indy's place, I started cursing because I figured next years 1st was gone.  I'm used to seeing what we gave up trade for first rounders maybe at the very end, in the 30-32 range.

 

I guess we should consult the holy Jimmy Johnson value chart.

[skinfan2k]

5 minutes ago, Forehead said:

 

Yeah, I was surprised by that myself.  As soon as I saw us pop up in Indy's place, I started cursing because I figured next years 1st was gone.  I'm used to seeing what we gave up trade for first rounders maybe at the very end, in the 30-32 range.

 

I guess we should consult the holy Jimmy Johnson value chart.

 

I'm guessing they think that pick next year is within the first 5-8 picks in 2020 2nd round

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Paul Conner‏ @P_ConnerJr

#Redskins wanted a QB and an EDGE. If MIA, CIN, DEN, or a team jumped to get Haskins, we probably see Sweat (or Burns) at 15 and those two 2nds shipped to AZ for Rosen. They didn't have to sway too much either way. They moved the draft party for this. This is what they wanted.

 

 

Pete Hailey‏ @PeteHaileyNBCS

Redskins' young studs up front:

Matt Ioannidis - 25 years old

Jonathan Allen - 24

Montez Sweat - 22

Daron Payne - 21

Tim Settle - 21 That is..................... awesome

 

 

(Collins 25, Foster 25 as well)

 

 

 

This is a fun watch lol (NSFW- language):

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

A lot of people would have to be wrong coupled with Jay's statement for your view of this to be correct.  Last year rumor was he wanted another player with their first rounder, we could say that was BS but then Doug later without mentioning Jay outright said there was disagreement with the pick.

 

But Jay will play the good solider because you have no choice.  You can't say that you aren't on board with your #1 pick -- that would be a national headline.  The dude is now on your team so you embrace it.  So if you want to believe that Jay is on cloud nine about it or whatever have at it.  I don't believe it.  Too much noise going in the other direction.  

 

Russell and Paulsen suggested Dan was talked out of trading up for Haskins but wasn't talked out of taking Haskins at 15.  Most of the national guys actually echoed the same story this afternoon.  

 

 

 

 

In fairness he has Josh Jacobs as a top what, 15, player which is absurd, the Brown ranking is silly as well (I know a ton of yu disagree), do agree on Sweat, Dillard, Oliver, Allen and Baker. 

[RandyHolt]

The real beauty behind the Giants taking Jones is that it ensures they have to use Eli for another year or 2.

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

I want to go back and watch a game or two of Haskins to see for myself.  Is there a game that stands out to you as showing a mix of some of the good and some of the bad?  I know draft network lists Michigan as good tape and Michigan st as bad tape.  Just curious as to your thoughts.   Thanks.

 

I answered more about my take about Haskins in responses already to Kdawg.  But to your point here:  you can see it in bits and pieces in every game even the Michigan one.    Watch for example the Penn State game when at some juncture in the game they decided to keep bringing the house.  His game changed.    The hard thing with him is judging when he has time versus not have time in NFL terms.   

 

His blockers mostly gave him plenty of time.  And when he panics some in my observation is where it seems like he doesn't have a lot of time in contrast to when he does have time.  But a lot of that more panic style play is still with him having 3 seconds and change which is more likely to mirror the NFL.

 

Also when pressure makes him go laterally in either direction, he's mixed at best with dealing with that dynamic IMO.   Fortunately for him that didn't happen much.  Will that be the case though in the NFL?  In the NFL he might deal with more pressure up the middle which will require him to move left-right more and make plays.   If you recall in his pro day he showcased his ability to throw on the move laterally because some suspected he knew that he was criticized on that count.

 

But that's it i  don't want to keep beating up Haskins. 😀 There are aspects of his game I really like including he has a rocket of an arm and has a quick release when he's in rhythm with the short game-mesh concepts.   He's also good at selling misdirection on that front -- moving one way and then throwing it in the opposite direction -- sort of like what Dak Prescott does a ton of in Dallas. 

 

 

On another note, I love this Giants-Haskins hate narrative brewing.  I hate the Giants so i am enjoying it. 

 

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-york-giants/LongFormArticle/Dwayne-Haskins-New-York-Giants-2019-NFL-Draft-facts-127543039/#127543039_4

Haskins has made it very clear on three separate occasions that he would love to be drafted by the Giants.

In a since-deleted Tweet, Haskins posted a picture of him photoshopped in a Giants jersey with a message warning the NFL about how dynamic the New York offense could be if he joins it.

Teddy Greenstein recently did a profile on Haskins where he mentioned the Giants as a landing spot for Haskins in the draft. The Ohio State star didn't hide his feelings about potentially being selected by the Giants.

"I'm hoping for that too," Haskins told Greenstein, via the Chicago Tribune.

This wasn't the first time Haskins expressed his interest in being selected by the Giants. Earlier this season, Haskins admitted he has been a fan of the Giants for a long time now.

“It would be pretty nice,” Haskins told the New York Post. “I played ‘Madden’ a lot, and [Tiki Barber] was really good running the football. The whole offense was nice. Plaxico [Burress], Jeremy Shockey, Eli [Manning], Ahmad Bradshaw. I was basically the stats guy from my family. I would know everybody’s height and weight, what college they went to.

“I’ve been a Giants fan for a long time.”

Haskins has also recently started following and interacting with current Giants players like Saquon Barkley on social media.

He was also recently followed by wide receiver Odell Beckham Jr. on his Instagram account.

 

 

 

 

 

[Skins Skeptic]

1 hour ago, Tedskins 21 said:

 

 

Right. I have been saying we lack explosion from the edge for years. I just think we could have done a better job addressing it with Brian, and still got Haskins.

In my alternative reality, we drafted Burns at 15 last night, still traded up for Sweat and traded a 3+5 for Rosen. Would fill less needs, but would have turned our front 7 into hell for the opposition.

[Forehead]

4 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

I want to go back and watch a game or two of Haskins to see for myself.  Is there a game that stands out to you as showing a mix of some of the good and some of the bad?  I know draft network lists Michigan as good tape and Michigan st as bad tape.  Just curious as to your thoughts.   Thanks.

 

To echo SkinsinParadise, definitely go watch the Penn State game from last season.  You'll see both bad and good.  The bad is what I didn't like about him.  Penn State was either hitting him or in his face constantly, and he was throwing off his back foot a lot, clearly didn't like getting hit, etc.  Penn State was one of the few really good defenses Ohio State played last season.

 

The good, he did adjust.  I don't know how much was on him and how much was on the coaches, but Penn State I'm pretty sure thought they were in his head and pinned their ears back, and he started catching them on screen passes.  Being a Penn State fan, I hated this part of it, but it was a good adjustment, I just didn't like what I saw at all for the first 2.5-3 quarters.

[skinfan2k]

I think if Haskins has shown he has a high football IQ, everything else is coachable.  You can't really work on your craft in college and you worry about your game plan than anything else.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[S.T.real,lights,out]

14 minutes ago, Skins Skeptic said:

In my alternative reality, we drafted Burns at 15 last night, still traded up for Sweat and traded a 3+5 for Rosen. Would fill less needs, but would have turned our front 7 into hell for the opposition.

 

Arizona isn't going to take a 3 and 5 for him. If they are smart they will hold him and when a starter goes down in pre-season or at the beginning of they year they will trade him for a 1st.

 

They have already paid just about his entire contract. They are in no rush to move him. 

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

35 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Paul Conner‏ @P_ConnerJr

#Redskins wanted a QB and an EDGE. If MIA, CIN, DEN, or a team jumped to get Haskins, we probably see Sweat (or Burns) at 15 and those two 2nds shipped to AZ for Rosen. They didn't have to sway too much either way. They moved the draft party for this. This is what they wanted.

 

 

Pete Hailey‏ @PeteHaileyNBCS

Redskins' young studs up front:

Matt Ioannidis - 25 years old

Jonathan Allen - 24

Montez Sweat - 22

Daron Payne - 21

Tim Settle - 21 That is..................... awesome

 

 

(Collins 25, Foster 25 as well)

 

 

 

This is a fun watch lol (NSFW- language):

 

 

I edited out the video clip (don't want to get banned!  😉, but just had to say that watching that 6-minute clips of Giant fans losing their ever-loving minds over the D Jones draft pick has been the highlight of my week!!!

 

[ShredSkins]

1 hour ago, VaK9Trainer said:

I'm probably going to get roasted for this but I've been thinking hard about it.  Greedy Williams is still on the board at CB. This is a guy who was projected by most to go top 10-15 in the 1st round and he's still on the board. We are in Win Now mode. With that being said, Norman is not getting any younger and his salary next year (if I'm not mistaken) is going to be outrageous. So, here's my thought. Trade someone our first round pick in 2020 and grab Greedy now. We may be looking CB in the 1st next year anyway so why not grab a guy now with his talent?  Then, about mid way through the 2nd, if they're still on the board, trade those two 3rd round picks and move up for Deebo Samuel or Hakeem Butler.  We'd still have 5 picks left. 2 in the 5th, 1 in the 6th and 2 in the 7th to try to grab some depth. We'd be pretty stacked in this scenario. 

I joked earlier about trading next years first....but if we could get a 2nd round this year and a 2nd next year. Theres just so much talent still on the board we could benefit from..and we arent going to be drafting a QB next year. Most likely we will be trading down next year to get a 2nd back if we have another mediocre season and will be drafting in the teens anyways. Plus if someone we really want is there when the Dolphins pick...if they are all in on a QB in 2020 that extra 1st rounder from us would be worth alot...and their 2020 2nd round pick is most likely very high. I'd do this. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Since I mentioned Parris Campbell and YAC here are some examples.  This was Haskins' go to guy.  He even pleaded on twitter yesterday to take one of his teammates.  Doubt he's still there in the third but if he is I'd expect they'd be tempted.  He's not a deep threat in spite of his great speed but he's excellent with the underneath stuff that Haskins loves. 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

We have two 3rd round draft picks for today. I hope we keep them both honestly, I know it may be tempting to trade into the 2nd because someone will fall, but we have two positions with major holes right now. WR and LG, but we also need OL depth. I'm hoping we draft two OL in the 3rd to be honest, our line cannot stay healthy. Trent is getting up there, Morgan Moses is constantly injured and cannot be relied upon. 

 

Maybe Doctson comes through and Cam Sims turns out to be a steal. We find that out this year, if we have nothing here we take the best OL, WR, or TE in the first next year. Fill the gaps in FA.