seantaylor=god

2019 NFL Draft discussion thread

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14 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Make no mistake, there is no dysfunction within the organization right now or for the lash 3 years. Everyoe knows their roles in the machine. 

 

The disfunction comes from people not used to being an outsider from player personnel decisions in dc, not accepting their roles, general vindictiveness, and the overwhelming malaise that has grasped the dmv as a whole.

 

we might have had a hand in ny drafting #pick6... Spies leaking false interest in the dukie. Just like I think we targeted sweat at 15 and had a hand in the medical. I think Allen has a team of these people playing other franchises as suckers into believing we are the same dunces they’ve only ever known. Kyle Smith, Allen, and Williams all play different roles . 

Lmao if we were actually doing these things I'd be amazed. I would expect something like this from the Patriots, and would gladly accept that our organization had a bunch of snakes everywhere if it meant having draft picks slide to us. I just dont think we are capable still...

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So looks like I'm the only one that is not awed by this draft...

 

Everybody's praising us, but that 1st pick is still a head scratcher to me as it raises, many, many, many questions.

So Haskins is our next savior and QB for the next 10 years? Why not.

 

- We traded for Case Keenum, I believe insurance in case we didn't get our guy? Why not, but still a bit expensive. Who's gonna start then? Case Keenum? If that's your goal when trading for him to close the gap until Smith comes back, fine. If you start Haskins then Keenum is your backup and McCoy 3rd QB?  He'll be the most expensive 3rd QB throughout the league.

 

- If Smith comes back in 2020 and Keenum was your starter, then it's fine. But if it was Haskins. Then what do you do? Bench Smith? Then you'll have 20M or something on your backup QB... Bench Haskins to put Smith back in? That would be really great to see and it won't please Haskins...

 

- Now in 2020 it's highly probable than Jay Gruden won't be around anymore. So you'll have to find a HC whose style will match Dayne Haskins. That's a problem.

 

- While we adressed a position of need (which wasn't to me, because we had decent close gap on the roster and draft QB in next year's draft with better guys coming out of college than what we had this year), our OL will probably still be injured a lot. I'm not expecting Wes Martin or Pieschbacher to start at LG and even then, we'll still have a hole here. So we'll rotate guys on the OL, have problems with our T playing hurt, and so on. So I we expect a not so good running game with Giuce coming from injury which means we're not sure how he'll fared. If our Run Game sucks, then we'll have to rely on Haskins who's not really good against pressure and need clean pockets to operates so far. Our crappy OL won't healp ease him into the position at NFL level and might be even worse. Guy may get injured or start having happy feet and seeing ghosts just like Ramsey years ago... Not the best way to develop a QB that needs lot of development.

 

- You can have all these problems above while starting Case Keenum as well, which then means we'll probably have a high draft pick next year. Thus a shot at one of the best QB without trading up. That puts us in Arizona's position where we may have to trade Haskins to pick a better QB. Not a great option as well, as we'll have a new HC.

 

Had Alex Smith not been injured, I would have understood drafting a QB as a replacment, like going Rodgers with Favre still on the roster, that would have made sense. But with him being injured, it'll just create a nightmare a year down the road.

 

Now you can also believe Haskins we'll storm the league like RG3 did and we'll win a playoff game or two and that Gruden will be extended as well as Bruce and that stadium will be filled with Redskins fans all year long. You would still have the most expensive back up in the NFL and you can't seriously believes this...

 

So no, I don't like this draft at all... Draft is supposed to be 2/3 years down the road which isn't what we did at all here...

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It is nice to feel good about the draft but the fact is that it will be at least a year and I would say more like two years before you can really judge.  We have drafted can't miss quarterbacks, wide receivers etc. in the past that did not live up to the hype.  We have drafted OL that at the time were described as "nasty" and they ended up hanging around on the PS until they eventually got cut.  If you look back at the 14, 15, 16 draft, out of 25 draft picks, only 4 are left on the roster.  Not a very good track record in my opinion if you are building a team from the draft.  Granted in 17,18 draft, all 18 picks are still on the roster.  So there is reason perhaps to think maybe they are getting better at this draft thing, but only time will tell.  I am very positive about this class but that is just on paper at this time.  The game at this level is much different than the college game so just because a player had an outstanding college career does not mean they will be able to do that at this level.  I wish all of them the best of luck and hope they will be able to contribute in a positive way to rebuilding this team.  I just hope we can have more of a normal NFL injury experience in 2019 so these guys get a chance to compete.

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We traded for Keenum because both our qbs suffered broken legs.

 

Smith isn’t coming back.  He’s a cap penalty and assistant qb coach until he retires.

 

Unless Keenum completely falls apart, Colt is gone.

 

Its actually highly probable that Jay is here in 2020.

 

Injuries happen and we’re overdue for a bit of good fortune there.  Even so, we are now deeper and more talented along the OL than we were last year and we have an excellent OL coach.

 

Our run game will not suck.

 

There is no scenario where we trade Haskins next April.

 

Leave Ramsey and RG out of this.  They’re completely irrelevant.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So looks like I'm the only one that is not awed by this draft...

 

So no, I don't like this draft at all... Draft is supposed to be 2/3 years down the road which isn't what we did at all here...

I was not in favor of a first round QB either, but you can't judge a draft only by one pick. Getting Sweat seems to be a great move. A bunch of the picks seem to be above where they were rated and have high potential. Now, extending Smith like McNabb before him turned out to be a mistake. Case is on a one year rental. If Smith comes back it's Haskins vs. Smith. I think the move suggests that the common view that no one expects Smith to return is sadly accurate.

 

So, just as we ought not to view every Allen move in light of his horrible mishandling of the Kirk Cousins' situation, we oughtn't fixate only one draft pick to judge this draft. Now, judging Allen on our record is very fair.

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23 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

- If Smith comes back in 2020 and Keenum was your starter, then it's fine. But if it was Haskins. Then what do you do? Bench Smith? Then you'll have 20M or something on your backup QB... Bench Haskins to put Smith back in? That would be really great to see and it won't please Haskins...

LOL Alex Smith ain’t coming back dude and if he does it won’t be as a starter. We’re going to be trying to get out of the contract as soon as we can but unfortunately it’s going to hamstring us for a while. So having a QB on a rookie contract will be a good thing. 

 

I have plenty of questions/concerns about Haskins but it would be very foolish to base any future scenarios on Alex Smith. 

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9 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

 

- Now in 2020 it's highly probable than Jay Gruden won't be around anymore. So you'll have to find a HC whose style will match Dayne Haskins. That's a problem.

 

 

Dwayne Haskins is a traditional drop back passer with a big arm and limited mobility.  How would it be difficult to find a coach to that knows how to handle a QB that plays the way QB's have been playing forever?

 

A couple other points:

 

We had a pretty good OLine before injuries, struggled after too many injuries to count.  Coming back healthy no reason to expect "crappy".  I expect our OL to be a strength.

 

By all accounts Guice will be 100% at camp.  With him healthy and AP, I expect to be a heavily leaning run team and I expect us to be successful.

 

I will be really surprised if Alex Smith is ever the preinjury Alex Smith.  I believe it was a poorly worked contract guaranteeing so much cash.  If he ever returns I think it will be as a mentor to our young starting QB.  I like Alex, but I think he is done.  I do agree if by a miracle Alex is 100% in 2020 it could be awkward in the QB room.

 

i don't know if Dwayne Haskins is going to be the guy, but I am extremely confident he will always be better than Daniel Jones.  The overall worth of the draft will be decided down the road, but I'm optimistic we are on the right path (despite Bruce Allen) 

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16 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

- We traded for Case Keenum, I believe insurance in case we didn't get our guy? Why not, but still a bit expensive. Who's gonna start then? Case Keenum? If that's your goal when trading for him to close the gap until Smith comes back, fine. If you start Haskins then Keenum is your backup and McCoy 3rd QB?  He'll be the most expensive 3rd QB throughout the league.

 

- If Smith comes back in 2020 and Keenum was your starter, then it's fine. But if it was Haskins. Then what do you do? Bench Smith? Then you'll have 20M or something on your backup QB... Bench Haskins to put Smith back in? That would be really great to see and it won't please Haskins...

 

You seem to be worrying about some things that I don't really see as actual problems.

 

The biggest one seems to be is what do we do if Smith comes back? Surely the question should be; what do we do if Smith doesn't come back? With McCoy also recovering from injury, what do we do, re-sign Sanchez? (I realise that is a bit of a strawman, but you get the point).

 

I agree with you that we probably traded for Keenum as insurance in case we didn't get our guy. As it turned out, we may indeed have got our guy. So we have a training camp battle to decide the starter, that's a good thing not a problem. If McCoy is involved in that battle, then even better, may the best man win.

 

I don't see Alex Smith ever playing football again, but for the sake of argument; if he did come back and could play at the same level as before, then the only problem we would have is having too many starting quality QBs. That's a good problem to have.

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For all the pre draft talk of discord amongst the FO, I think the picks show a balance of opinions being brought out in the selections.

 

Haskins may not have been Grudens choice, but I reckon Sweat is. Clearly wanted added quality at Edge, dare say put a case forward at #15, but to be fair the rest of the war room, we jumped back into the first to get him his man.

 

Lots of chatter that Gruden has no input into decisions, I actually think this draft shows otherwise.

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41 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So looks like I'm the only one that is not awed by this draft...

 

Everybody's praising us, but that 1st pick is still a head scratcher to me as it raises, many, many, many questions.

So Haskins is our next savior and QB for the next 10 years? Why not.

 

- We traded for Case Keenum, I believe insurance in case we didn't get our guy? Why not, but still a bit expensive. Who's gonna start then? Case Keenum? If that's your goal when trading for him to close the gap until Smith comes back, fine. If you start Haskins then Keenum is your backup and McCoy 3rd QB?  He'll be the most expensive 3rd QB throughout the league.

 

- If Smith comes back in 2020 and Keenum was your starter, then it's fine. But if it was Haskins. Then what do you do? Bench Smith? Then you'll have 20M or something on your backup QB... Bench Haskins to put Smith back in? That would be really great to see and it won't please Haskins...

 

- Now in 2020 it's highly probable than Jay Gruden won't be around anymore. So you'll have to find a HC whose style will match Dayne Haskins. That's a problem.

 

- While we adressed a position of need (which wasn't to me, because we had decent close gap on the roster and draft QB in next year's draft with better guys coming out of college than what we had this year), our OL will probably still be injured a lot. I'm not expecting Wes Martin or Pieschbacher to start at LG and even then, we'll still have a hole here. So we'll rotate guys on the OL, have problems with our T playing hurt, and so on. So I we expect a not so good running game with Giuce coming from injury which means we're not sure how he'll fared. If our Run Game sucks, then we'll have to rely on Haskins who's not really good against pressure and need clean pockets to operates so far. Our crappy OL won't healp ease him into the position at NFL level and might be even worse. Guy may get injured or start having happy feet and seeing ghosts just like Ramsey years ago... Not the best way to develop a QB that needs lot of development.

 

- You can have all these problems above while starting Case Keenum as well, which then means we'll probably have a high draft pick next year. Thus a shot at one of the best QB without trading up. That puts us in Arizona's position where we may have to trade Haskins to pick a better QB. Not a great option as well, as we'll have a new HC.

 

Had Alex Smith not been injured, I would have understood drafting a QB as a replacment, like going Rodgers with Favre still on the roster, that would have made sense. But with him being injured, it'll just create a nightmare a year down the road.

 

Now you can also believe Haskins we'll storm the league like RG3 did and we'll win a playoff game or two and that Gruden will be extended as well as Bruce and that stadium will be filled with Redskins fans all year long. You would still have the most expensive back up in the NFL and you can't seriously believes this...

 

So no, I don't like this draft at all... Draft is supposed to be 2/3 years down the road which isn't what we did at all here...

First of all, it was a great pick.  We basically got the best QB in the draft at #15.  No chance you pass on him considering how bleek our QB situation is.

 

Secondly, I thought it was a great deal getting Keenum in the trade.  Denver took the cap hit when trading him and we only pay him  3.5 if he stays on the roster.  If we didn't bring in Keenum then we would have been extremely desperate for a  QB in the draft and possibly traded up into the top 5.

 

At the end of the day Colt will be cut, Keenum is the backup, Woodrum serves as our #3 and Haskins is your starter.  Next year, Keenum walks in free agency, Alex Smith comes back healthy and serves as a high priced backup for 2020 then he is released, traded, or retires.  There's no way around it though, Alex Smith will be cut/traded after 2020 if he still wants to play football, we take a cap hit and move on.  Hopefully he decides to retire and we can strike some settlement.  But we will be a young and talented team until we get him off the books.

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31 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

We traded for Keenum because both our qbs suffered broken legs.

 

Smith isn’t coming back.  He’s a cap penalty and assistant qb coach until he retires.

 

Unless Keenum completely falls apart, Colt is gone.

 

Its actually highly probable that Jay is here in 2020.

 

Injuries happen and we’re overdue for a bit of good fortune there.  Even so, we are now deeper and more talented along the OL than we were last year and we have an excellent OL coach.

 

Our run game will not suck.

 

There is no scenario where we trade Haskins next April.

 

Leave Ramsey and RG out of this.  They’re completely irrelevant.

Not gonna do multiple quotes but:

- We picked up Sanchez and Johnson for our injured QBs. We traded for Keenum in the offseason while McCoy is expected to be back this season.

- He hasn't retired yet, so you have to take him into the equation, and thus he's gonna be expensive for a assistant QB coach until he retires, which he'll have no interest of doing until he earned all the money on his contract.

- McCoy is the least of our problem really. I just try to take everything into account.

- Considering how we ended up last season, starting 1-4 might seal his fate. And we have a tough schedule to begin the season.

- I don't see how we're more talented on the OL after losing NSekhe. We haven't drafted an OT or got one notable during FA. Our excellent QB coach has been here as long as Jay and our OL is not that great. Now I don't expect all of a sudden guys with injury history to remain injury free...

- It did suck last year.

- You sure. It's probable we may end up with a Top 5 pick. Instead of winning 16-13, we might lose 13-3 all year long...

 

20 minutes ago, terpfan said:

LOL Alex Smith ain’t coming back dude and if he does it won’t be as a starter. We’re going to be trying to get out of the contract as soon as we can but unfortunately it’s going to hamstring us for a while. So having a QB on a rookie contract will be a good thing. 

 

I have plenty of questions/concerns about Haskins but it would be very foolish to base any future scenarios on Alex Smith. 

He's still on the roster and being paid, so you absolutely have to take him into account. My scenarii are not even taking his play level because it doesn't really matter. Having 20M of cap on a back up QB is not a good idea.

 

15 minutes ago, evmiii said:

Dwayne Haskins is a traditional drop back passer with a big arm and limited mobility.  How would it be difficult to find a coach to that knows how to handle a QB that plays the way QB's have been playing forever?

 

A couple other points:

 

We had a pretty good OLine before injuries, struggled after too many injuries to count.  Coming back healthy no reason to expect "crappy".  I expect our OL to be a strength.

 

By all accounts Guice will be 100% at camp.  With him healthy and AP, I expect to be a heavily leaning run team and I expect us to be successful.

 

I will be really surprised if Alex Smith is ever the preinjury Alex Smith.  I believe it was a poorly worked contract guaranteeing so much cash.  If he ever returns I think it will be as a mentor to our young starting QB.  I like Alex, but I think he is done.  I do agree if by a miracle Alex is 100% in 2020 it could be awkward in the QB room.

 

i don't know if Dwayne Haskins is going to be the guy, but I am extremely confident he will always be better than Daniel Jones.  The overall worth of the draft will be decided down the road, but I'm optimistic we are on the right path (despite Bruce Allen) 

- I never said it would be difficult, you're just limiting your options when you have to change a HC, that's all I'm saying. We've been asking (ES as a whole, not anybody specific) to can our HC and pick another one that can pick is QB. That's not gonna happen this time as well.

- I'm not gonna bet on Lauvao, Williams, Reed, Thompson and Moses to remain injury free this year. They're injured year in, year out. Why should it change?

- He may be 100%, will he still be the same? Considering he hasn't play a regular down for us, I don't know what to expect from him.

- Alex doesn't have to be 100% for the situation to be awkward. He just have to be ready to play. If that happens, it's either you put him back in charge, or you're having the most expensive back up in NFL history until you find a way to cut him and your Salary Cap is done... Seriously, his play level doesn't matter at all.

- I don't care if Haskins is better than Jones, I would have the same questions had we drafted Murray, Lock or Jones over Haskins. It's really not about him.

 

29 minutes ago, Burgold said:

I was not in favor of a first round QB either, but you can't judge a draft only by one pick. Getting Sweat seems to be a great move. A bunch of the picks seem to be above where they were rated and have high potential. Now, extending Smith like McNabb before him turned out to be a mistake. Case is on a one year rental. If Smith comes back it's Haskins vs. Smith. I think the move suggests that the common view that no one expects Smith to return is sadly accurate.

 

So, just as we ought not to view every Allen move in light of his horrible mishandling of the Kirk Cousins' situation, we oughtn't fixate only one draft pick to judge this draft. Now, judging Allen on our record is very fair.

In my view, we keep on making mistakes to cover other mistakes. We traded for Smith to cover our KC's debacle. Then we draft Haskins trying to cover for the Smith's mistake?

 

Hiding mistakes behind mistakes never ends up well.

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32 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So looks like I'm the only one that is not awed by this draft...

 

Everybody's praising us, but that 1st pick is still a head scratcher to me as it raises, many, many, many questions.

So Haskins is our next savior and QB for the next 10 years? Why not.

 

- We traded for Case Keenum, I believe insurance in case we didn't get our guy? Why not, but still a bit expensive. Who's gonna start then? Case Keenum? If that's your goal when trading for him to close the gap until Smith comes back, fine. If you start Haskins then Keenum is your backup and McCoy 3rd QB?  He'll be the most expensive 3rd QB throughout the league.

 

- If Smith comes back in 2020 and Keenum was your starter, then it's fine. But if it was Haskins. Then what do you do? Bench Smith? Then you'll have 20M or something on your backup QB... Bench Haskins to put Smith back in? That would be really great to see and it won't please Haskins...

 

- Now in 2020 it's highly probable than Jay Gruden won't be around anymore. So you'll have to find a HC whose style will match Dayne Haskins. That's a problem.

 

- While we adressed a position of need (which wasn't to me, because we had decent close gap on the roster and draft QB in next year's draft with better guys coming out of college than what we had this year), our OL will probably still be injured a lot. I'm not expecting Wes Martin or Pieschbacher to start at LG and even then, we'll still have a hole here. So we'll rotate guys on the OL, have problems with our T playing hurt, and so on. So I we expect a not so good running game with Giuce coming from injury which means we're not sure how he'll fared. If our Run Game sucks, then we'll have to rely on Haskins who's not really good against pressure and need clean pockets to operates so far. Our crappy OL won't healp ease him into the position at NFL level and might be even worse. Guy may get injured or start having happy feet and seeing ghosts just like Ramsey years ago... Not the best way to develop a QB that needs lot of development.

 

- You can have all these problems above while starting Case Keenum as well, which then means we'll probably have a high draft pick next year. Thus a shot at one of the best QB without trading up. That puts us in Arizona's position where we may have to trade Haskins to pick a better QB. Not a great option as well, as we'll have a new HC.

 

Had Alex Smith not been injured, I would have understood drafting a QB as a replacment, like going Rodgers with Favre still on the roster, that would have made sense. But with him being injured, it'll just create a nightmare a year down the road.

 

Now you can also believe Haskins we'll storm the league like RG3 did and we'll win a playoff game or two and that Gruden will be extended as well as Bruce and that stadium will be filled with Redskins fans all year long. You would still have the most expensive back up in the NFL and you can't seriously believes this...

 

So no, I don't like this draft at all... Draft is supposed to be 2/3 years down the road which isn't what we did at all here...

 

 

Our OL is not crappy okay?  The coaching staff cannot try to set up a roster and game plan as thoiugh the starting lineup at the end of the year which had us at like fourth or fifth string guards is what they have to expect.  Our normal OL has one weak spot, which they have taken some steps to look at.  They may not have thrown all their resources into LG, but they are tight to begin with so we couldn't have everything

 

Now as to the Alex Smith/Case Keenum/Dwayne Haskins 2020 problem you suggest. 

 

It doesn't exist.  Keenum is on a one year deal here.

 

So if by some miracle Alex Smith comes back we'll have a Smith/Haskins  situation, but then we do need two QBs at least.  But really he's probably never playing again

 

As for McCoy, he may be slightly high priced for a third stringer.  But cutting him save only 1.5 mil.  Nice money to have but it wouldn't have gotten us a superstar anywhere and he's also hurt so we can't cut him or rely on him next year

 

Your concern of having to many QBs in 2020, when actuallyh we will probably need to sign a vet backup for Haskins that year

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1 hour ago, glongest said:

It is nice to feel good about the draft but the fact is that it will be at least a year and I would say more like two years before you can really judge.  We have drafted can't miss quarterbacks, wide receivers etc. in the past that did not live up to the hype.  We have drafted OL that at the time were described as "nasty" and they ended up hanging around on the PS until they eventually got cut.  If you look back at the 14, 15, 16 draft, out of 25 draft picks, only 4 are left on the roster.  Not a very good track record in my opinion if you are building a team from the draft.  Granted in 17,18 draft, all 18 picks are still on the roster.  So there is reason perhaps to think maybe they are getting better at this draft thing, but only time will tell.  I am very positive about this class but that is just on paper at this time.  The game at this level is much different than the college game so just because a player had an outstanding college career does not mean they will be able to do that at this level.  I wish all of them the best of luck and hope they will be able to contribute in a positive way to rebuilding this team.  I just hope we can have more of a normal NFL injury experience in 2019 so these guys get a chance to compete.

I disagree 100%. Haskins,Love and both OL selected show exactly this is to better the team in 2-3 years while we also compete each well.  The team we have now with Case starting can surprise some and win our division and possibly a playoff game.  But that's just my opinion.  Guess we will have to wait and see.  I think the Skins had the perfect balance of waiting patiently for Haskins to drop to us,  trade up for Sweat and training back to get extra picks. 

Edited by HoggLife

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1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Make no mistake, there is no dysfunction within the organization right now or for the lash 3 years. Everyoe knows their roles in the machine. 

 

The disfunction comes from people not used to being an outsider from player personnel decisions in dc, not accepting their roles, general vindictiveness, and the overwhelming malaise that has grasped the dmv as a whole.

 

we might have had a hand in ny drafting #pick6... Spies leaking false interest in the dukie. Just like I think we targeted sweat at 15 and had a hand in the medical. I think Allen has a team of these people playing other franchises as suckers into believing we are the same dunces they’ve only ever known. Kyle Smith, Allen, and Williams all play different roles . 

 

 

Even if I believed all of that, which I don't.   From what most are saying if Kyle Smith doesn't get the GM spot at some point in the near future he would likely move on to another organization that would -- do we say let him go because it won't be the same without our guy, Bruce at the helm?  

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2 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

In my view, we keep on making mistakes to cover other mistakes. We traded for Smith to cover our KC's debacle. Then we draft Haskins trying to cover for the Smith's mistake?

 

Hiding mistakes behind mistakes never ends up well.

The biggest mistake we have ever made was signing Alex Smith to that massive contract.  I don't think it was such a bad thing to acquire him but the contract really hurts.  But with signing Haskins who is possibly the best QB in the draft was a huge step forward in fixing the situation.

 

Smith will retire after 2020 or he will be traded or released....period.  There's no two ways around it. 

1 minute ago, HoggLife said:

I disagree 100%. Haskins,Love and both OL selected show exactly this is to better the team in 2-3 years while we also compete each well.  The team we have now with Case starting can surprise some and win our division and possibly a playoff game.  But that's just my opinion.  Guess we will have to wait and see.  I think thr Sounds had the perfect balance of waiting patiently for Haskins to drop to us,  trade up for Sweat and training back to get extra picks. 

Totally agree....I think we were patient and proactive when making our selections.  I guarantee if we didn't have Keenum on the roster we would have moved up substantially to acquire a QB.  Without moving up for Haskins we were able to move up and get a stud rush LB.  Getting Love was also awesome, especially with Chris Thompson on an expiring contract this year.  Minus the Alex Smith contract, the Skins have been outstanding over the last few years.  Stay healthy and we go deep into the playoffs.

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3 minutes ago, carex said:

Our OL is not crappy okay?  The coaching staff cannot try to set up a roster and game plan as thoiugh the starting lineup at the end of the year which had us at like fourth or fifth string guards is what they have to expect.  Our normal OL has one weak spot, which they have taken some steps to look at.  They may not have thrown all their resources into LG, but they are tight to begin with so we couldn't have everything 

So you're expecting our OL to remain magically injury free this year?

Good players are on the field, not on the IR. Simple as that. Now you can argue they're good when healthy, I can give you that. But that will be what? 1, 2, 3? games. Otherwise you'll have 2nd, 3rd, 4th stringers over the line with backups lacking reps and stuff like that... Which will make for a crappy line.

 

Now we're gonna play a Rookie QB and a 2nd year RB coming of a serious injury behind a crappy OL?

That's scary...

7 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

I disagree 100%. Haskins,Love and both OL selected show exactly this is to better the team in 2-3 years while we also compete each well.  The team we have now with Case starting can surprise some and win our division and possibly a playoff game.  But that's just my opinion.  Guess we will have to wait and see.  I think thr Sounds had the perfect balance of waiting patiently for Haskins to drop to us,  trade up for Sweat and training back to get extra picks. 

If the goal was to ride along this year with Case, then why don't you wait next year with better QB prospect to draft a QB and bolster the OL because the injuries are real and you need to replace Trent and stuff like that?

 

4 minutes ago, Dexter said:

The biggest mistake we have ever made was signing Alex Smith to that massive contract.  I don't think it was such a bad thing to acquire him but the contract really hurts.  But with signing Haskins who is possibly the best QB in the draft was a huge step forward in fixing the situation.

 

Smith will retire after 2020 or he will be traded or released....period.  There's no two ways around it.

It was a mistake to hide the mistake with KC. OK, so you're fine with having a backup that is paid 20M. I'm not.

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@Wildbunny - I share your concern about drafting a qb, then potentially firing Gruden and trying to find a coach that fits Haskins, vs letting the new guy choose his qb.  

 

Personally, I love that we added serious speed to the team.  On defense - Sweat and Holcomb, and offense - McLaurin and Love.  Also love the team captain route, and adding 2 guards with loads of experience to up our depth.  Moreland was fantastic value and offers play making ability.  At least 3 of our picks are special teams aces.  We also added a red zone threat/bully that’s been a missing dynamic from our receiving corp.  We picked guys with tools to reach a high level vs guys that are high floor, low ceiling types.  L

 

 

I somewhat disagree that this draft was focused on the now vs the future.  

A rookie qb isn’t about winning next year.  Waiting until the 5th for a guard isn’t about winning now.  Drafting Love isn’t about 2019.  Drafting team captains isn’t about changing the culture this year.  

 

I do agree that they didn’t need to draft a qb this year, particularly in the first.  Even more so if this move was to assuage Snyder.  On the other hand, Keenum’s on a one year deal and is cuttable.  Same with McCoy.  Smith is a total unknown at this point.  Doesn’t hurt to start the process (grooming a young qb) now.  

Keenum is/was an insurance policy.  Might be/have been our starter, might be backing/have backed up McCoy, or he might be cut with no strings attached.  Ditto McCoy.  

 

As for the financials, our qb cap situation was doomed anyway because of the Smith injury.  So yeah, maybe it’s slightly worse if Keenum’s the league’s priciest backup, but again, it’s for one year.  We likely cut McCoy if he’s the 3rd string, or we suck it up for this year (retaining Colt and Keenum) and free up the cap money next year for both of them after 1) another year of roster evals and 2) a year of seeing where Haskins is at.  Haskins is a year further along, Smith (possibly) returns to compete, and we have more money for FA.  If we had not signed Keenum, but drafted Haskins, we might be looking at a situation where Colt wins the job, but Haskins is forced to start early because of injury.  Instead, we have legitimate qb competition/depth.  

 

Lastly, there’s no telling what draft position we’re in next year.  No telling whether we have a shot at a qb we love next year.  No telling how much we’d have to give up to get them.  Instead, we got a guy we liked, didn’t trade away resources, and put him in a situation where we don’t need him to start right away.  

 

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12 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Not gonna do multiple quotes but:

- We picked up Sanchez and Johnson for our injured QBs. We traded for Keenum in the offseason while McCoy is expected to be back this season.

- He hasn't retired yet, so you have to take him into the equation, and thus he's gonna be expensive for a assistant QB coach until he retires, which he'll have no interest of doing until he earned all the money on his contract.

-

He's still on the roster and being paid, so you absolutely have to take him into account. My scenarii are not even taking his play level because it doesn't really matter. Having 20M of cap on a back up QB is not a good idea.

 

- I never said it would be difficult, you're just limiting your options when you have to change a HC, that's all I'm saying. We've been asking (ES as a whole, not anybody specific) to can our HC and pick another one that can pick is QB. That's not gonna happen this time as well.

- I'm not gonna bet on Lauvao, Williams, Reed, Thompson and Moses to remain injury free this year. They're injured year in, year out. Why should it change?

-

 

McCoy may be back this year but he's needed a second operation and so camp is probably in question.  Plus we need more than one QB.  Keenum was acquired because we could not rely on the guys we had and the draft.

 

Smith has not retired because that would accelerate his cap hit, plus possibly because it does allowing him to use team facilities for his rehab.  You have to take into account his cost not the idea of playing him.  He may be an expensive assistant coach, he'd be more expensive not to be.

 

Lauvao is not under contract.  Moses played through his injuries.   We have decent backup for Reed and Thompson.  Williams may be a concern, but his backups got hurt last yeat too

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1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

So looks like I'm the only one that is not awed by this draft...

 

Everybody's praising us, but that 1st pick is still a head scratcher to me as it raises, many, many, many questions.

So who would you have drafted in the first round?

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I don't like that we drafted more injured/surgery riddled  players who likely have a very realistic chance of making the team. 

 

We do that, too much, and that's one of the things that leads to the explosion if injuries when the season starts.

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Smith wasn't a mistake.    Not strength ening  offensive line after the trade is. 

 

If Haskins bombs where will we be in the years?  That what i keep asking

 

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5 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So you're expecting our OL to remain magically injury free this year?

Good players are on the field, not on the IR. Simple as that. Now you can argue they're good when healthy, I can give you that. But that will be what? 1, 2, 3? games. Otherwise you'll have 2nd, 3rd, 4th stringers over the line with backups lacking reps and stuff like that... Which will make for a crappy line.

 

Now we're gonna play a Rookie QB and a 2nd year RB coming of a serious injury behind a crappy OL?

That's scary...

If the goal was to ride along this year with Case, then why don't you wait next year with better QB prospect to draft a QB and bolster the OL because the injuries are real and you need to replace Trent and stuff like that?

 

It was a mistake to hide the mistake with KC. OK, so you're fine with having a backup that is paid 20M. I'm not.

 

no, I am not expecting the OL to stay magically injury free, BUT there's only so much you can do.  They have brought in three new OL to compete for a starting position and backup spots and allowed multiple people who missed time due to injury to move on.

 

And you can't say the OL is crappy based on your logic because the same thing can happen to every OL in the league.  So right now our line is not crappy

 

and you may not be fine with having a backup make 20 mil, but the alternative is to have a former backup make 52.6 mil

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Any team that is forced to start multiple 3rd and 4th string guys on the OL is gonna have a lackluster season.  Offering that “revelation” as means to disparage the FO and our draft process is completely meaningless.

 

Also, Bruce didn’t botch the KC situation, the Vikings did.  The only mistake we made was inking him to the 2nd tag as a good faith negotiating tool and to placate the fan base (almost always a bad idea).  Kirk and his agent wanted to turn his flash-in-the-pan year done on the back of a VERY strong supporting cast into a historic, big money deal.  They went fishing for suckers and they found three...the Vikings, the Jets and our fans/beltway media.  Bruce/Doug/etc didn’t bite...to their immense credit.

 

I wouldn’t trade our current QB situation with the Vikings for anything right now.  And that’s after having two guys go down with broken legs.

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4 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

So you're expecting our OL to remain magically injury free this year?

Good players are on the field, not on the IR. Simple as that. Now you can argue they're good when healthy, I can give you that. But that will be what? 1, 2, 3? games. Otherwise you'll have 2nd, 3rd, 4th stringers over the line with backups lacking reps and stuff like that... Which will make for a crappy line.

 

Now we're gonna play a Rookie QB and a 2nd year RB coming of a serious injury behind a crappy OL?

That's scary...

No team goes without injuries.  Yes someone will get hurt and other players will have to step up.  We have multiple players that can be T/OG or OG/C. So if or when an injury in the OL we can try many different combinations and hope we get a good one. We have one of the best OL coaches in football so he should help us in the area. 

 

And i doubt Haskins or Love play this year. Maybe Haskins gets to play the last 2 or 3 games if we look like we will miss the playoffs. Love will be on IR and then next year we let Thompson go and Love/Guice/AP combo will be very solid. Maybe you don't understand how special Love is.  We just need either one of him or Guice to play like they can and we will have a top 5 RB. If both play too their potential then we have the best RB tandem in football play 2020 season. 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

 

- You can have all these problems above while starting Case Keenum as well, which then means we'll probably have a high draft pick next year. Thus a shot at one of the best QB without trading up. That puts us in Arizona's position where we may have to trade Haskins to pick a better QB. Not a great option as well, as we'll have a new HC.

 

Had Alex Smith not been injured, I would have understood drafting a QB as a replacment, like going Rodgers with Favre still on the roster, that would have made sense. But with him being injured, it'll just create a nightmare a year down the road.

 

Now you can also believe Haskins we'll storm the league like RG3 did and we'll win a playoff game or two and that Gruden will be extended as well as Bruce and that stadium will be filled with Redskins fans all year long. You would still have the most expensive back up in the NFL and you can't seriously believes this...

 

So no, I don't like this draft at all... Draft is supposed to be 2/3 years down the road which isn't what we did at all here...

 

This is coming from a guy who didn't love Haskins as a player.  But then I thought about it some more.  And its not that I've come around much on Haskins but I'll keep an open mind about him in part because there are smart football people who i like and trust who are into him.  Dan not among them. :ols:  

 

And thinking about it some more even if Haskins doesn't work out -- the best way to get out of QB hell IMO is to keep taking shots at the well.    I was against trading up for any QB because I didn't want to lose draft capital.  But just taking Haskins at 15 isn't that risky. 

 

IMO the four worst organizations in the NFL as to the QB position for the last 25 years or so have been the Redskins, the Browns, Dolphins, Lions.  The Browns kept taking shots and finally hit gold.   The Eagles post McNabb kept shooting darts at the dart board and then nailed it with Wentz.   Dolphins seem to be doing it with Rosen with a backup plan of stock piling picks to trade up in the 2020 QB rich draft if they need to do so. 

 

Alex Smith IMO is just spilled milk.  I disagree with those who say hey it was the right idea at the time and it just went wrong.  IMO it was the wrong idea.  I said it from the get go.  I didn't want a 34 year old Qb coming off of a career year who otherwise wasn't anything special.    And no way I want to see this play out next year at 36 coming off of that injury even if he could play.  That to me is QB is hell.

 

But the Eagles who get heralded for doing things right -- made quick admissions of mistakes and move on.  They traded for Bradford.   Signed a FA QB too.   Didn't work out.  They went and got another young QB.    And they did it all in quick time. 

 

Just a side thing for me is the Daniel Jones-Haskins dynamic.  I'd say easily I was the lead hater of Daniel Jones on the draft board.  The fact that the dude is now a national punching line is a lot of fun for me (though part of me feels bad for him because he seems like a nice guy).  And I am digging this dynamic of Haskins playing the Giants and ultimately match up with Jones. 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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