Fergasun

Where is the Outrage over Boeing 737-MAX?

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I thought one of the main selling points of the Max wad it was the same as previous 737’s and you didn’t need retraining.  Even went so far as to just use the digital displays to show old fashioned gauges instead of a more modern ****pit configuration.  

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16 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

A commercial airliner isn’t analogous to a passenger car for a number of reasons... chiefly a mostly untrained public is in the drivers seat of a passenger car where as a highly

trained pilot is flying the plane (but not in this case apparently).

 

Right. 

 

A commercial aircraft that decides, on its own, to nose dive a thousand feet or so, every 30 seconds or so, repeatedly, in order to save the aircraft from a condition which does not, in fact, exist, is a perfectly acceptable condition. 

 

The cheap people at the airline should have paid extra for the "doesn't nose dive on its own" option. Oh, and they should have picked that option without being told about it. (Since I'm pretty sure that the salesman did not actually mention that "oh, by the way, the airplane might decide to fly itself into the ground if you don't buy the deluxe flight control package".)

 

And they should have trained their pilots on how to override the plane's repeatedly overriding the pilots. Again, without being told about that aircraft's feature. 

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9 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Right. 

 

A commercial aircraft that decides, on its own, to nose dive a thousand feet or so, every 30 seconds or so, repeatedly, in order to save the aircraft from a condition which does not, in fact, exist, is a perfectly acceptable condition. 

 

Never said it was acceptable. Boeing doesn’t think it’s acceptable either.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

The cheap people at the airline should have paid extra for the "doesn't nose dive on its own" option. Oh, and they should have picked that option without being told about it. (Since I'm pretty sure that the salesman did not actually mention that "oh, by the way, the airplane might decide to fly itself into the ground if you don't buy the deluxe flight control package".)

 

Uh... your facts are wrong in sort of a scary way. The extra features that Boeing offered were a angle of attack display that shows the readings of the aoa sensors and the other upgrade was an sensor disagree warning light. The plane would have performed the same with or without the extra displays.

 

9 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

And they should have trained their pilots on how to override the plane's repeatedly overriding the pilots. Again, without being told about that aircraft's feature. 

 

The Ethiopian airline pilots should have known about the issue, Boeing put out a Notice the issue and updated their training program to instruct pilots in the elevator runaway issue.

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3 hours ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

 Everybody but TWA, cowgirl, and Boeing understand that Boeing ****ed up. 

 

Boeing ****ing up does not excuse the pilots or airlines.

 

Pilots aren't passengers

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3 hours ago, Larry said:

 

 

 

And they should have trained their pilots on how to override the plane's repeatedly overriding the pilots. Again, without being told about that aircraft's feature. 

 

If the airline and pilots didn't know the tail moved to correct trim they should not be in the business of buying and flying.....much less transporting people.

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12 minutes ago, twa said:

 

If the airline and pilots didn't know the tail moved to correct trim they should not be in the business of buying and flying.....much less transporting people.

 

Smooth goalpost moving, there. From not knowing that the airplane occasionally decides on its own to ignore the pilot's commands, to not knowing what the horizontal stabilizer does. Even less honest than your typical job. 

 

But I have to admire the lengths people will go, to avoid giving up on a discussion. I'm imagining an airplane in which, in a one month period, 5% of one model aircraft have had one engine fall off in flight, and people with a straight face are announcing that any pilot who can't land the airplane with a missing engine is obviously incompetent to fly. 

 

 

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More comparable to a engine quitting and needing restarted, the plane remained functional despite a malfunction.

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8 minutes ago, twa said:

More comparable to a engine quitting and needing restarted, the plane remained functional despite a malfunction.

 

An engine quitting, every few seconds, again and again. And an airplane with one engine remains functional despite a malfunction.  

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Just now, Larry said:

 

An engine quitting, every few seconds, again and again. And an airplane with one engine remains functional despite a malfunction.  

 

You can disable the tail movement if you know how.....not knowing how to override a flight control leaves me thinking you should not be flying .....as does not knowing the plane has that function.

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2 hours ago, twa said:

 

Boeing ****ing up does not excuse the pilots or airlines.

 

Pilots aren't passengers

READ THE ARTICLES or stop posting like your thoughts are worthy of consideration.

2 hours ago, Larry said:

 

An engine quitting, every few seconds, again and again. And an airplane with one engine remains functional despite a malfunction.  

He isn't interested in the truth Larry. His mind was made up on day one, and no facts presented will change his mind. He literally has an article that places a portion of blame on the Obama FAA and he doesn't care.

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... and the pilots did turn off MCAS... it just happens to be that you have to be Arnold Schwarzenbaker to be strong enough to manually trim the plane... so they turned auto back on so they could have powered trim and it flew into the ground.

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I've already blamed Boeing :ols: repeatedly.

 

The notion the pilots should not be capable/expected of overcoming problems such as that is where we differ.

My fundamental view is professionals are paid to adapt and overcome problems if possible.....and it was certainly possible to do so.

 

A purely speculative article does nothing to change my opinion...one that even admits the pilots might have reengaged the system even less so.

 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

... and the pilots did turn off MCAS... it just happens to be that you have to be Arnold Schwarzenbaker to be strong enough to manually trim the plane... so they turned auto back on so they could have powered trim and it flew into the ground.
 

 

BS...... the trim can be adjusted manually by a crank wheel.

 

Now if you choose to fight the system rather than go manual ya are going to need muscle.

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, twa said:

My fundamental view is professionals are paid to adapt and overcome problems if possible.....and it was certainly possible to do so.

 

source pls cause I missed it 

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56 minutes ago, twa said:

I've already blamed Boeing :ols: repeatedly.

 

The notion the pilots should not be capable/expected of overcoming problems such as that is where we differ.

My fundamental view is professionals are paid to adapt and overcome problems if possible.....and it was certainly possible to do so.

 

A purely speculative article does nothing to change my opinion...one that even admits the pilots might have reengaged the system even less so.

 

 

 

 

From the info that is available I really can't fault the pilots in this case. Yes they are trained to adapt and it likely was possible to resolve the problem given the right solution (other pilots seem to have done so) but when you are that close to the ground you better be very lucky and the first solution you try is the the one that works.  

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13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

source pls cause I missed it 

 

A source that you can take manual control of flying the max 8?

 

Every airliner has that capability, now whether the pilots that crashed had that knowledge for that airframe is a open question.

 

 

2 minutes ago, nonniey said:

From the info that is available I really can't fault the pilots in this case. Yes they are trained to adapt and it likely was possible to resolve the problem given the right solution (other pilots seem to have done so) but when you are that close to the ground you better be very lucky and the first solution you try is the the one that works.  

 

they were not that close to the ground if they could rollercoaster for minutes.

 

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5 minutes ago, twa said:

A source that you can take manual control of flying the max 8?

 

Naw. I want to know your source that:

 

1 hour ago, twa said:

My fundamental view is professionals are paid to adapt and overcome problems if possible.....and it was certainly possible to do so.

 

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1 minute ago, Llevron said:

 

Naw. I want to know your source that:

 

 

 

The source is my opinion based on my knowledge, if you have a different one feel free.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, twa said:

 

The source is my opinion based on my knowledge, if you have a different one feel free.

 

Facts from actual experts.

You started by blaming the pilots and with every passing day it's been shown that the pilots are simply not the cause. But that hasn't changed your mind at all.

Because per the norm you are right in spite of demonstratable facts that tell you otherwise.

 

How many years of airline pilot experience do you have?

Edited by AsburySkinsFan

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2 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

Facts from actual experts.

You started by blaming the pilots and with every passing day it's been shown that the pilots are simply not the cause. But that hasn't changed your mind at all.

Because per the norm you are right in spite of demonstratable facts that tell you otherwise.

 

You dont even have to argue that **** lol. He knew he was wrong when he typed that mess lol

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You can definatley disable autopilot and mcas on the max8. A crew flying the lion air crash did it and was able to continue for a safe flight.

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9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

You can definatley disable autopilot and mcas on the max8. A crew flying the lion air crash did it and was able to continue for a safe flight.

Seems like the next question is if MCAS can override the pilot taking control.   Just gotta wait and let the investigation play out.  

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