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"Israel is for Jewish people only" - Netanyahu


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18 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I’m probably in an extreme minority here but I think this is a perfect opportunity to show that we aren’t the world’s police.  I think we should just keep our nose out of it at this point.

 

I get that, but how do we " just keep our nose out of it" when we have been funding/arming/enabling/encouraging one side for decades? I think it's graceless at a minimum, hypocritical as an easy take to want to pretend there are no American fingerprints on any of this.

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2 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I’m probably in an extreme minority here but I think this is a perfect opportunity to show that we aren’t the world’s police.  I think we should just keep our nose out of it at this point.

 

If US does that (and I think they should.  US should say call the rest of the world when you are ready for an immediate ceasefire and locked room negotiation for a two state solution), they should stay all the way out. 

 

When Isreal throws the notion of proportionate response in the trash and goes to the lengths of bombing press buildings and damaging doctors without borders clinic, we're in war crimes territory.  We should stop all support or arms sale to Isreal until they commit to a lasting ceasefire.

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1 hour ago, bearrock said:

When Isreal throws the notion of proportionate response in the trash and goes to the lengths of bombing press buildings and damaging doctors without borders clinic, we're in war crimes territory.  We should stop all support or arms sale to Isreal until they commit to a lasting ceasefire.

I'd hold out for a lot more than a ceasefire.

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Posted (edited)

You would think senseless death would be a unifying thing. 
 

yet we seem to be perpetually suck in a “who started it” type loop

 

this is the conflict resolution technique of my 5 and 2 year old. 

Why is it too much to ask that adults be in charge of things and behave like adults 

Edited by tshile
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23 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I’m probably in an extreme minority here but I think this is a perfect opportunity to show that we aren’t the world’s police.  I think we should just keep our nose out of it at this point.

Agreed. We should cut off the money and arms to Israel immediately. I know that’s not what you meant but it’s what needs to happen. We’re paying for this with direct funding/arming of Israel and indirect payments and arms sales to Arab countries to keep their mouths shut and stay out of it. So, whether we want to acknowledge it or not, this is our baby. Thanks Truman.🙄

 

 

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Yea I’d be all for us staying out of it but we aren’t doin that, we are actively supporting Israel, not only by selling the weapons, but also by making public statements that they need to defend themselves and blocking UN attempts to call for a cease fire and not really calling Israel out for the territory bombing of the media building.

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I can’t figure out just what the hell it is that Israel wants.  They can’t really want to continue with this apartheid state forever right?  Their leaders can play stupid all they want, but they know the current state of things invites violence.  A people oppressed this badly will only ever lash out.  Plus, the state of things costs them much and constantly risks their alliances in the west.  They claim to support a two state solution but their settlements suggest that they’re more interested in expanding territory.  
 

What does winning look like realistically for Israel in this madness?  Is the plan just to lie about wanting peace while they slowly expand their borders until Gaza and Palestine are no more?  
 

 

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32 minutes ago, Destino said:

I can’t figure out just what the hell it is that Israel wants.  They can’t really want to continue with this apartheid state forever right?  Their leaders can play stupid all they want, but they know the current state of things invites violence.  A people oppressed this badly will only ever lash out.  Plus, the state of things costs them much and constantly risks their alliances in the west.  They claim to support a two state solution but their settlements suggest that they’re more interested in expanding territory.  
 

What does winning look like realistically for Israel in this madness?  Is the plan just to lie about wanting peace while they slowly expand their borders until Gaza and Palestine are no more?  
 

 

 

Being in conflicts is what Netanyahu wants. It cements the support for him from the Orthodox and Eastern Europeans who live there now. That's his base. 

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3 hours ago, Destino said:

I can’t figure out just what the hell it is that Israel wants.  They can’t really want to continue with this apartheid state forever right?  Their leaders can play stupid all they want, but they know the current state of things invites violence.  A people oppressed this badly will only ever lash out.  Plus, the state of things costs them much and constantly risks their alliances in the west.  They claim to support a two state solution but their settlements suggest that they’re more interested in expanding territory.  
 

What does winning look like realistically for Israel in this madness?  Is the plan just to lie about wanting peace while they slowly expand their borders until Gaza and Palestine are no more? 

 

The Israeli right wing's current stance of expanding settlements and using Gaza as an open air prison has been rewarded with complete bipartisan backing in the US, and increasing support from the oligarchs of the Arab oil states + Egypt. What is their incentive for a two-state solution? Really nothing. They can expand territory, annex land Palestinian land and where the Palestinian's end up eventually (if at all) is apparently not their problem.  They aren't getting sanctioned, they aren't losing defense aid, they have normalized relationships with surrounding Arab states, and Egypt fully backs the blockade of Gaza.

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2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

 

The Israeli right wing's current stance of expanding settlements and using Gaza as an open air prison has been rewarded with complete bipartisan backing in the US, and increasing support from the oligarchs of the Arab oil states + Egypt. What is their incentive for a two-state solution? Really nothing. They can expand territory, annex land Palestinian land and where the Palestinian's end up eventually (if at all) is apparently not their problem.  They aren't getting sanctioned, they aren't losing defense aid, they have normalized relationships with surrounding Arab states, and Egypt fully backs the blockade of Gaza.

Regardless of their footing today, what they’re doing creates political opposition.  That opposition may not be winning, urgently, but political winds are subject to change and so this constant heavy handed oppression comes with risk.  However small it may seem, it’s can grow at any moment, and I’m sure they’re aware of that.  It’s why they work so hard at lobbying governments that matter.  
 

So what are they working towards that justifies incurring, and the expense managing, that risk?  They’re spending an enormous amount of money to keep this going.  

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13 minutes ago, Destino said:

Regardless of their footing today, what they’re doing creates political opposition.  That opposition may not be winning, urgently, but political winds are subject to change and so this constant heavy handed oppression comes with risk.  However small it may seem, it’s can grow at any moment, and I’m sure they’re aware of that.  It’s why they work so hard at lobbying governments that matter.  


For what it’s worth, political winds have changed. The Bush administration used to condemn Israel’s bombing of Palestinian houses and openly rejected the “Hamas human shield” argument for it. Compare that to what Biden et al are doing right now. 
 

I think the Israeli government has made a pretty solid calculation that they have nothing to worry about when it comes to losing support, and that full annexation of Palestinian territory is a policy goal that they are well on their way to achieving with little resistance. 

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4 hours ago, Destino said:

I can’t figure out just what the hell it is that Israel wants.  They can’t really want to continue with this apartheid state forever right?  Their leaders can play stupid all they want, but they know the current state of things invites violence.  A people oppressed this badly will only ever lash out.  Plus, the state of things costs them much and constantly risks their alliances in the west.  They claim to support a two state solution but their settlements suggest that they’re more interested in expanding territory.  
 

What does winning look like realistically for Israel in this madness?  Is the plan just to lie about wanting peace while they slowly expand their borders until Gaza and Palestine are no more? 

See name of this thread.

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A very good primer on why presidents of both parties should agree to simply say we don't give a **** going forward.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/how-lonely-little-george-h-w-bush-changed-the-us-israel-relationship/

 

Quote

Former Israeli ambassador to the United States Michael Oren once castigated Barack Obama for not abiding by the principle of “no daylight” and “no surprises.” That was most reflected, the Israeli diplomat emphasized, in Obama’s publicly castigating Israel’s settlements.

 

But Obama was not the first president to make Israeli settlements such a point of contention. Former president George H.W. Bush, who died Friday night, went much further than him, in fact.

 

Bush, who was president from 1989 to 1993, forever changed American politics when he exerted his power to curtail the settlement enterprise and faced a vehement backlash.

 

He made clear the cost of an American president waging a political fight against the vast coalition of pro-Israel lobbying groups. In doing so, he exposed the limits of what the world’s most powerful man can do when trying to solve the world’s seemingly most intractable conflict.

 

One of the most controversial moments of his single-term presidency was when Bush delayed Israel loan guarantees until it halted its settlement building in the West Bank and Gaza and entered a peace conference with the Palestinians, what would later became known as the Madrid Peace Conference.

 

The United States had previously agreed to provide Israel $10 billion in loan guarantees to help Soviet Jews resettle in Israel. But in September 1991, Bush said that the United States would not issue those guarantees until prime minister Yitzhak Shamir agreed to those demands.

 

Quote

While an undeniable achievement for Bush, that episode was not without its costs. Bush’s backing by American Jews took a nosedive immediately thereafter, despite his landmark support for helping Jews escape trouble spots around the world, from Russia to Syria to Ethiopia.

 

Receiving 35% of the Jewish vote in 1988, Bush only got 11% in 1992, when he lost to Bill Clinton. Only one Republican nominee for president has received a smaller portion of Jewish support — when Barry Goldwater claimed just 10% in 1964. Roughly 25% of American Jews voted for Donald Trump in 2016.

 

Bush’s defeat in 1992 was not mainly because of his contentious relationship with Israel. Rather, Bill Clinton seized upon the economic frustrations of American voters. “It’s the economy, stupid,” Clinton’s adviser James Carville memorably said.

 

But American presidents have since been cautious to avoid paying for challenging Israel like that — for using their leverage — and none really has, especially not in their first term.

 

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4 hours ago, Destino said:

I can’t figure out just what the hell it is that Israel wants.  They can’t really want to continue with this apartheid state forever right?  Their leaders can play stupid all they want, but they know the current state of things invites violence.  A people oppressed this badly will only ever lash out.  Plus, the state of things costs them much and constantly risks their alliances in the west.  They claim to support a two state solution but their settlements suggest that they’re more interested in expanding territory.  
 

What does winning look like realistically for Israel in this madness?  Is the plan just to lie about wanting peace while they slowly expand their borders until Gaza and Palestine are no more?

Now you're getting it. And Biden is telling the Palestinians to knuckle under and restore "calm", i.e. the status quo you described in your last sentence. That's a load of horse 💩 and he and everybody else knows it.

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Posted (edited)

 

 


I honestly don’t get why the admin is being so pro-Israel when it’s really hurting them with the left to do so and from what I’ve seen attitude has swung pretty handily against Israel in general in the US.  I have yet to hear much support for them other than from some politicians.

Edited by visionary
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Posted (edited)

An Open Letter to Leadership at IGN, Ziff Davis, and J2 Global

Employees of IGN

 

To the management of J2 Global and Ziff Davis, and the corporate leadership of IGN:

 

We, the undersigned employees of IGN, are appalled by the recent management decision to subvert our editorial autonomy and remove our post directing aid to the Palestinian civilians currently suffering a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, the West Bank, and Jerusalem.

 

In our original post, we offered our readers ways to support charities that help injured and sick children, supply educational resources and food assistance to victims, and provide emergency medical relief for those wounded or displaced by the conflict. We feel these efforts should not be controversial. All humans deserve access to these basic rights, and it is important for those with means to offer aid in times of humanitarian crisis.

 

Our original post was shared by thousands of people, and because of IGN’s size and reach, we were able to serve as a leader for much of the rest of the industry to also help support those whose lives are torn apart by this conflict. We were proud to be part of a team at a site that was able and willing to offer this level of visibility to such critical humanitarian support efforts.

 

This decision to take down the post was made a day and a half after it was published. The takedown took place in the early hours of the morning on a weekend with no communication to its initial authors, the general IGN staff, or to the public as to why it happened. IGN’s editorial team has guidelines about updating content deemed needful of changes, something that we’ve done multiple times in the past — but wholesale removal of pieces without posting an explanatory statement is expressly against our usual policy.

 

https://ignemployees.medium.com/an-open-letter-to-leadership-at-ign-ziff-davis-and-j2-global-f7171d5ad42f

Edited by spjunkies
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Destino said:

Regardless of their footing today, what they’re doing creates political opposition.  That opposition may not be winning, urgently, but political winds are subject to change and so this constant heavy handed oppression comes with risk.  However small it may seem, it’s can grow at any moment, and I’m sure they’re aware of that.  It’s why they work so hard at lobbying governments that matter.  
 

So what are they working towards that justifies incurring, and the expense managing, that risk?  They’re spending an enormous amount of money to keep this going.  

 

I think it is a country controlled and governed by religious fanatics.  They aren't going to be rational.  (Sometimes there are countries that are governed by people that are rational and claim to be religious fanatics.  That's a different situation and not what you see currently in Israel (I don't think.).)

 

They want the nation of Israel as Jewish state as promised in the old testament/Torah, and the leadership is patient.

 

https://www.biblica.com/bible/?osis=niv:Exodus 23:31

 

“I will establish your borders from the Red Sea to the Mediterranean Sea, and from the desert to the Euphrates River. I will give into your hands the people who live in the land, and you will drive them out before you."

 

You're mostly dealing with people that think that statement will be and should be true.

Edited by PeterMP
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