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The Cult of Case

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Unfortunately for Rosen, coming to Washington would not be the equivalent of Goff having Boy Wonder arrive in LA. What should've happened for that kid is the Cardinals should've sat him for a year or two so that he could watch and learn the NFL game, and be coached and developed while doing so. He wasn't ready, just like those other highly-touted QBs from last year's draft were simply not ready (most just aren't that good to begin with, at least for the NFL level). The Cards had a terrible coaching staff last year, especially on the offensive side of the ball, with no prospects whatsoever for QB development. Now, they've hired Tom Clements, who is damn good at it. That tells me that the Cards are planning to either draft someone, develop Rosen.....or both. They only have 2 QBs on their roster right now, so there will definitely be moves made to add another; whether it's Murray or not remains to be seen (and I don't think they're going to draft Murray).

 

The Rams have a lot of draft picks. Wouldn't be surprised if Rosen ends up in Los Angeles if the Cards decide to move on from him. I hope they keep him and develop him, though.

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Trading for Rosen wouldn't come off as a stop-gap move, it would feel like the team acknowledging that Alex Smith is likely done with football and they had to turn the page. Otherwise you are trading for and developing a young future potential QB for a single season and then what, benching him if Smith comes back in 2020?

 

Case Keenum is a much easier option to use while needed and then send him on his way when the time is right. 

 

What is really making this more of a mess is the lack of knowing Smith's plans.  It's nobody's fault really, I am sure Smith has every intention of coming back unless/until he is told by doctors he can't. 

 

The only safe option is drafting a QB next offseason, and that is never "safe" either because there are no guarantees. 

 

The situation just sucks overall right now.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

Trading for Rosen wouldn't come off as a stop-gap move, it would feel like the team acknowledging that Alex Smith is likely done with football and they had to turn the page. Otherwise you are trading for and developing a young future potential QB for a single season and then what, benching him if Smith comes back in 2020?

 

Case Keenum is a much easier option to use while needed and then send him on his way when the time is right. 

 

What is really making this more of a mess is the lack of knowing Smith's plans.  It's nobody's fault really, I am sure Smith has every intention of coming back unless/until he is told by doctors he can't. 

 

The only safe option is drafting a QB next offseason, and that is never "safe" either because there are no guarantees. 

 

The situation just sucks overall right now.

He’s not coming back. The fact that the team wants Rosen or is considering taking a QB round 1 shows that he’s done.

Edited by JoggingGod
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6 hours ago, skinzplay said:

Unfortunately for Rosen, coming to Washington would not be the equivalent of Goff having Boy Wonder arrive in LA. What should've happened for that kid is the Cardinals should've sat him for a year or two so that he could watch and learn the NFL game, and be coached and developed while doing so. He wasn't ready, just like those other highly-touted QBs from last year's draft were simply not ready (most just aren't that good to begin with, at least for the NFL level). The Cards had a terrible coaching staff last year, especially on the offensive side of the ball, with no prospects whatsoever for QB development. Now, they've hired Tom Clements, who is damn good at it. That tells me that the Cards are planning to either draft someone, develop Rosen.....or both. They only have 2 QBs on their roster right now, so there will definitely be moves made to add another; whether it's Murray or not remains to be seen (and I don't think they're going to draft Murray).

 

The Rams have a lot of draft picks. Wouldn't be surprised if Rosen ends up in Los Angeles if the Cards decide to move on from him. I hope they keep him and develop him, though.

 

Ok, I was with you to the end there. Why would the Rams want him? They have a their QB in Goff. I do not see them using any resources to get another young QB. And they do not have a lot of draft picks (see below). Also, they also have huge holes to fill as they are about to lose several prominent starters - mostly on D but on O too. Below is the list of more important FAs (some not so important are mixed in but most of them are major starters). 

 

Is it possible you meant the Patriots? They have 4 picks in the top 50 I believe. And an aging Tom Brady. This would make more sense. 

 

I still think Rosen is in play in Wash. And I know people assume McCoy is not going anywhere because how much Jay likes him but it's a business. Also, McCoy may not be healing in time for them to wait to make a decision at QB. I could see him going to IR and being outright released once cleared to play. 

 

Rams 2019 draft picks

  • Round 1: L.A. Rams
  • Round 2: None
  • Round 3: None
  • Round 4: L.A. Rams
  • Round 5: L.A. Rams
  • Round 6: L.A. Rams
  • Round 7: None

 

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Didn't mean that Boy Wonder and Co. are intent on landing Rosen, or that he's gonna develop and take the reins from Goff. Just said that it wouldn't surprise me if he wound up with the Rams. His old OC is on staff with the Rams, so there's one connection. It doesn't equate to his wanting to be there, of course; and maybe Fisch would say to the Rams that he's not worth it (or maybe he'll say that he's better than any other backup on the squad). The book is still out on Rosen as a pro prospect. I'd like to see what he can do after sitting and learning under someone's tutelage. Poor kid was put in a terrible situation last year with a bad coaching staff, bad OL.......just a terrible environment to get started.

 

The Rams have 7 picks in the upcoming draft, including two 3rd rounders. Not sure why I thought it was more. Or maybe I had another team in mind, as you mentioned. It'll definitely be interesting to see how they manage the big contracts/1-year deals, etc. And DJax wants to head out there if he doesn't return to Philly. But back to QB.....like I said, the Cards have brought Clements on board, so maybe they plan to see what can be done with actually teaching/developing this kid. It couldn't have been good for him to have Chip Kelly come to town and stunt his growth. I'm really curious to see what he can do, and whether some real coaching could actually bring about the kind of Goff/Boy Wonder turnaround we saw in LA.

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53 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Didn't mean that Boy Wonder and Co. are intent on landing Rosen, or that he's gonna develop and take the reins from Goff. Just said that it wouldn't surprise me if he wound up with the Rams. His old OC is on staff with the Rams, so there's one connection. It doesn't equate to his wanting to be there, of course; and maybe Fisch would say to the Rams that he's not worth it (or maybe he'll say that he's better than any other backup on the squad). The book is still out on Rosen as a pro prospect. I'd like to see what he can do after sitting and learning under someone's tutelage. Poor kid was put in a terrible situation last year with a bad coaching staff, bad OL.......just a terrible environment to get started.

 

The Rams have 7 picks in the upcoming draft, including two 3rd rounders. Not sure why I thought it was more. Or maybe I had another team in mind, as you mentioned. It'll definitely be interesting to see how they manage the big contracts/1-year deals, etc. And DJax wants to head out there if he doesn't return to Philly. But back to QB.....like I said, the Cards have brought Clements on board, so maybe they plan to see what can be done with actually teaching/developing this kid. It couldn't have been good for him to have Chip Kelly come to town and stunt his growth. I'm really curious to see what he can do, and whether some real coaching could actually bring about the kind of Goff/Boy Wonder turnaround we saw in LA.

 

Can you please show where the Rams have 7 picks? I looked at 2 sites and they show only 4, 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th. But honestly, even it they had 15 picks I am really just not seeing the Rams in play for Rosen at all. There is no reason for them to be. They have way too many other holes to fill and they have a QB. I agree he was in a **** situation but the Rams would be a bad place for him to go, but for him and the team. I believe Rosen gets traded and could see 4 or more teams interested, but the Rams do not make my top 25 teams, and it's really less than that.

 

Ultimately, I hope Rosen goes somewhere that he has a good chance to start. He deserves a fresh start. I just do not see him being anywhere on the Rams radar. And remember, he has zero say in where he goes. No need to restructure and if he wants to sit out that out that would be career suicide.

 

I agree it will be interesting to see what the Rams do with all those contracts expiring. That D is going to take a hit And it was not really that good until later in the season. Wade's D tend to get worse each season. So far that's been true in LA too.

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1 minute ago, goskins10 said:

 

Can you please show where the Rams have 7 picks? I looked at 2 sites and they show only 4, 1st, 4th, 5th and 6th. But honestly, even it they had 15 picks I am really just not seeing the Rams in play for Rosen at all. There is no reason for them to be. They have way too many other holes to fill and they have a QB. I agree he was in a **** situation but the Rams would be a bad place for him to go, but for him and the team. I believe Rosen gets traded and could see 4 or more teams interested, but the Rams do not make my top 25 teams, and it's really less than that.

 

Ultimately, I hope Rosen goes somewhere that he has a good chance to start. He deserves a fresh start. I just do not see him being anywhere on the Rams radar. And remember, he has zero say in where he goes. No need to restructure and if he wants to sit out that out that would be career suicide.

 

I agree it will be interesting to see what the Rams do with all those contracts expiring. That D is going to take a hit And it was not really that good until later in the season. Wade's D tend to get worse each season. So far that's been true in LA too.

 

The Rams were awarded 3 compensatory picks -- two in the 3rd round (picks 98 & 99) and a 7th rounder (pick 251).

 

I hope Rosen gets a shot, too, but I also want to see the kid get some competent position coaching. He hasn't had that since entering the NFL, and the arrival of Chip Kelly and firing of Jedd Fisch also weren't good for his development in the waning period of his college career. If he does go elsewhere, I hope he goes somewhere that has a doggone good QB coach. I still think he needs to sit and learn for a year; wouldn't count last season at all, and I'm sure he'd rather forget it, too. Agreed that the Rams have some holes to fill and already have a QB, no doubt. We'll see how things turn out.

 

I'm still curious to see where Bridgewater lands. I'm sure he wants to start and show that he can lead a team. 

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10 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

 

The Rams were awarded 3 compensatory picks -- two in the 3rd round (picks 98 & 99) and a 7th rounder (pick 251).

 

I hope Rosen gets a shot, too, but I also want to see the kid get some competent position coaching. He hasn't had that since entering the NFL, and the arrival of Chip Kelly and firing of Jedd Fisch also weren't good for his development in the waning period of his college career. If he does go elsewhere, I hope he goes somewhere that has a doggone good QB coach. I still think he needs to sit and learn for a year; wouldn't count last season at all, and I'm sure he'd rather forget it, too. Agreed that the Rams have some holes to fill and already have a QB, no doubt. We'll see how things turn out.

 

I'm still curious to see where Bridgewater lands. I'm sure he wants to start and show that he can lead a team. 

 

Ok gotcha on the picks. Wasn't seeing that come up. Again still not seeing the Rams as a destination.

 

But I do see him going to another team. I think AZ ends up taking Murray making Rosen expendable. I still see the Redskins in the mix. The Patriots would be a solid destination and could easily be interested. I also think the Raiders may be interested. I am not sure Jon Gruden likes Carr that much - he really doesn't have a lot of patience with QBs. He showed that in TB. The Giants should be considering him unless there is someone in the draft they like. And how sold is the new TB coaching staff on Winston? A dark horse team for me would be Pitts. They have to start thinking about life after Ben. That would be a great place for Rosen to go. Sit behind Ben for a yr or two then get the reigns. 

 

Bridgewater is an enigma so for. I think he has the talent. But will anyone give him a legitimate chance? I hope so. I think he is a good guy who has been unlucky so far. 

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21 hours ago, JoggingGod said:

Lmfao you absolutely trade a 2nd for Rosen. I'm sick of idiots thinking that talented young QBs grow on trees or calling them busts after half a year.

 

I also wish individuals would just read the write ups people have made.

 

A snapshot:

*Rosen's been a/THE top ranked QB in the '18 class since he debuted as a freshman in 2015. 

 

*Rosen's production while at UCLA and under 3 different OC's in 3 years was excellent.

 

*Rosen's tape/scouting reports put him #1 overall or at worst #2 overall in the QB class throughout the process preceeding the combine.

 

*The chief ingredients in terms of knocks on Rosen had nothing to do w/his on field play, chiefly: #1 had a temperament and personality that rubbed coaches and staff the wrong way (though not his teammates) and #2 got dinged up at times at UCLA.

 

*As a pro with the cardinals his production was disappointing at best, awful at worst.

 

*Said production was absolutely explicable when examining the issues the team had along the OL, and in terms of playmaking talent and in terms of coaching. The OL was essentially the league worst according to PFF and according to all metrics available. The playmaking talent was totally absent at WR with the team having let go John and Jaron Brown, replacing them with rookie Christian Kirk who sustained several injuries before going out for the remainder of the season, 2nd year pro Chad Williams who combined with veteran JJ Nelson for fewer than 25 total catches. In tandem w/that you have the Cardinals finishing 29th in target separation, a metric used to show effective WR's are at getting open, and 26th in dropped passes which is self-explanatory. 

 

*Note the OC was incompetent and fired before December, and the HC was fired after one season. 

 

*Could Rosen be a bust? Sure. Could any rookie QB succeed in a situation where he was saddled with a league worst OL, a 15th-20th percentile WR corps, and a non-functional run game, no production from the TE security blanket and a coaching staff that was s canned both in season and following it, after 1 year in place succeed? If you're saying yes to that question, I question your ability to use reason.

 

I should add, that while anyone has a right to an opinion, no opinion has a right to be taken seriously if said opinion is based on zero research, or at best, research that extends as far as the local radio guy trashing the subject of the argument/debate. 

 

*Lastly, it's become a truism that there is no easier way to gain a short cut on a rebuild than to acquire a franchise QB on a rookie contract deal. It dramatically opens up the cap allowing a team to address vastly more positional defficiencies significantly more aggressively than if you're saddled with that latest megadollar free agent QB (see the Vikes cap busting offer for Cousins). QB's own the biggest part of the caps positional pie, excacerbated by the fact that it's one player, as opposed to the OL, or DL, or WR, or DB, positions that require a great deal of expenditures for multiple starters AND depth players. Only at QB can you spend as much as an entire positional grouping on the team for 1 asset alone. A QB of quality on a rookie deal is the short cut of short cuts. So let me underline this again:

 

If your GM argues Rosen is only worth a 3rd, your GM is a dribbling moron who should be fired yesterday. Rosen's entire college career yielded a ranking of 1st or 2nd in what's been one of the two best QB classes since 2004. That's right. 2004. He was the 1st or 2nd ranked QB depending upon whom you consulted on a class ranked as the best or 2nd best since the famed '04 grouping which yieled three top 10ish QB's all of whom have a strong chance at making the Hall of Fame, either for their talent (Rivers), or for their talent and/or Big game moments (Eli and Ben Roth). He's going on the 2nd year of a particularly cheap rookie QB for a top ranked prospect at the position. Is that worth more than a third? 

 

Umm, do I even need to answer that question?

 

GM's shouldn't even be running a hot dog cart, let alone a billion dollar franchise if they are this deeply embedded in ignorance. 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, BraveWarrior said:

 

It's one thing when it's the fans calling them busts, but when the team that drafted him gives up on him, you have to have some doubts. They're around him every day, and have a much better idea of his potential at this point than anyone else, and they may already be ready to move on from him. 

 

No they aren't. The team is run by an entirely new staff. New HC, new OC etc. They canned the OC, and the HC, and I don't think I need to go over Redskins HC trends with prior QB's to show what happens to the place holder when a new regime comes in? But just for fun:

 

1994 Norv Turner arrives: Goodbye Mark Rypien and Rich Gannon and Hello Heath Shulder, Gus Frerotte and John Friesz

 

2001: Schotty arrives: Good Bye Brad Johnson and hello Tony banks and Kent Graham.

 

2002: Spurrier arrives: Goodbye Banks, Graham and Jeff George and hello Shane Matthews, Patrick Ramsey and Danny Weurffel

 

2004: Gibbs II arrives: Goodbye Mathews/Ramsey/Weurffel and hello Mark Boonell. 

 

2008: J. Zorn Arrives, and Jim Zorn departs.

 

2010: Shanny arrives: Goodbye Jason Campbell and hello Donovan McNabb and Rex Grossman

 

2014: Jay Gruden arrives: Goodbye RGIII and hello Kirk Cousins.

 

Note that among those 7 new hires across 20 seasons, only one, Jim Zorn, didn't immediately replace the starting QB with one of his own, and that exception was not coincidentally the only coach who was put into place with virtually no power to speak of (signed to be OC, named HC with nobody would say yes to our offers). 

 

New regimes prefer to succeed or fail with THEIR QB's, rather than previous regimes. There are exceptions not only for us (Gibbs I for instance, keeping Theismann in place), but for others, but those exceptions tend to be a byproduct of one of two factors:

#1 the QB in place is acceptable or even excellent.

#2 there are no FA QB's available of quality and it's a bad QB class (see 2013, and 2014 for instance)

 

It's not remotely shocking that Kingbury arrives, and would prefer to bring in a QB perfectly suited for his system (Murray) to a QB not remotely well suited for his system (Pro Style QB Rosen). 

 

 

Edited by The Consigliere
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Posted (edited)
On 3/11/2019 at 3:11 PM, DJHJR86 said:

 

Yay?

If anything this makes me more depressed than before.

 

My "dream" scenario is that somehow the team gets any kind of cap relief they can get from an Alex Smith retirement prior to the 2020 season.   Case takes the beating, team plays poorly enough to get tons of people fired - hopefully on the sideline and  in the FO.  And we get a top 5 draft pick in 2020.  To start all over again.  Again.

 

So go Case - do your thing!

 

Edited by fwo40

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Theres no way Case beats out Colt for the starting position, I would put good money on it.

 

Its time to bump the "embrace the noodle" thread.

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16 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Theres no way Case beats out Colt for the starting position, I would put good money on it.

 

Its time to bump the "embrace the noodle" thread.

 

Sheehan was saying on his podcast that he has it on good authority that Jay Gruden was a proponent for bringing in Keenum and really likes him.

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1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

Sheehan was saying on his podcast that he has it on good authority that Jay Gruden was a proponent for bringing in Keenum and really likes him.

I'm sure but I dont see him being able to grasp the playbook quick enough to beat out Colt and I dont see Jay awarding him the job unless he earns it.

 

I think it will make preseason interesting because these guys are going to have to get some reps.

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27 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I'm sure but I dont see him being able to grasp the playbook quick enough to beat out Colt and I dont see Jay awarding him the job unless he earns it.

 

I think it will make preseason interesting because these guys are going to have to get some reps.

 

Yep...but I do think there is a way Case beats out Colt lol...I don't think Jay is as wedded to Colt as conventional wisdom seems to indicate, and I remember a lot of gushing praise over Case during the Broncos training camp last year, so he could be someone who shines before the season starts.

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1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Yep...but I do think there is a way Case beats out Colt lol...I don't think Jay is as wedded to Colt as conventional wisdom seems to indicate, and I remember a lot of gushing praise over Case during the Broncos training camp last year, so he could be someone who shines before the season starts.

 

My take is even if Colt wins the job so what?    Colt is a good dude but I'd be surprised if he survives playing more than 3 games with his injury history.  He seems even more fragile than RG3.   So I think its a given that Keenum starts most of the season at the very least. 

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3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

My take is even if Colt wins the job so what?    Colt is a good dude but I'd be surprised if he survives playing more than 3 games with his injury history.  He seems even more fragile than RG3.   So I think its a given that Keenum starts most of the season at the very least. 

One of these days he's gonna screw up and stay healthy, he's kinda due.

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On 3/11/2019 at 11:02 PM, Veryoldschool said:

This will all make sense if they use the top picks for OL.

 

So far in FA nothing.  I am surprised.  And most of the good ones are now off the market.  All they did is lose some depth on the O line so if anything they got weaker.  I didn't think they'd go for a 3rd tier type of player at LG along with not building up their depth for the interior last year -- yet they did.  They later said that they intended to take a LG in the draft but the board didn't flow that way on draft day.  They ended up taking a LT.   In theory, I'd say no way they do it again. 

 

 In theory, I'd say no way they are standing pat at LG, and I'd say 100% shot they do at least something but if the upshot is some low tier player with little depth again then they made their bed on this if things fall apart again on the O line.  Will see. 

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24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So far in FA nothing.  I am surprised.  And most of the good ones are now off the market.  All they did is lose some depth on the O line so if anything they got weaker.  I didn't think they'd go for a 3rd tier type of player at LG along with not building up their depth for the interior last year -- yet they did.  They later said that they intended to take a LG in the draft but the board didn't flow that way on draft day.  They ended up taking a LT.   In theory, I'd say no way they do it again. 

 

 In theory, I'd say no way they are standing pat at LG, and I'd say 100% shot they do at least something but if the upshot is some low tier player with little depth again then they made their bed on this if things fall apart again on the O line.  Will see. 

Expect a Jon Cooper signing in the near future and I think OG get's address not later in the 2nd.  I HOPE!  :)

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7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

So far in FA nothing.  I am surprised.  And most of the good ones are now off the market.  All they did is lose some depth on the O line so if anything they got weaker.  I didn't think they'd go for a 3rd tier type of player at LG along with not building up their depth for the interior last year -- yet they did.  They later said that they intended to take a LG in the draft but the board didn't flow that way on draft day.  They ended up taking a LT.   In theory, I'd say no way they do it again. 

 

 In theory, I'd say no way they are standing pat at LG, and I'd say 100% shot they do at least something but if the upshot is some low tier player with little depth again then they made their bed on this if things fall apart again on the O line.  Will see. 

 

They picked up Keenum at QB so I think we can feel somewhat hopeful they won't do something stupid in the way of a reach at QB.  I am actually feeling somewhat hopeful that they will finally do the obvious thing and help themselves by spending the top couple of picks on the OL.  Yes, despite a couple of decades with Synder stepping on himself and our hopes I still entertain some persistent delusion that this year will be different and they will invest in the most important unit on any football team.  I am going to hold on to this happy thought until the draft.  I don't want to hear any BPA nonsense, I want the top picks going for OL this year no excuses. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

I don't want to hear any BPA nonsense, I want the top picks going for OL this year no excuses. 

 

Yeah no. One pick should be LG maybe but they have a ridiculous amount of needs right now. They absolutely should not draft a backup in the first two rounds.

Edited by JoggingGod

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