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The Plight of the 2021 Baltimore Orioles


Spaceman Spiff

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Shout out to John Means, the O's All-Star.  And not even a token, he got it on merit.  Now, if we could just get him to go more than 5 innings.  

 

Mancini should be an alternate, at least.

Edited by justice98
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On 6/30/2019 at 11:20 AM, RonArtest15 said:

O's need to stockpile as many assets as they can.  EVERYONE should be available on the active roster.  There is no one on this team worth keeping for the future. 

 

Everyone?   That seems a bit much.   We have some young, cost controlled talent that are playing quite well

 

Means 7-4  ERA 2.50 (!!) 

Severino OPS 829

Mancini OPS 901
Cisco OPS 1033

 

In addition, 

Santander  OPS 818 

Dwight Smith Jr.  OPS 755,

While not phenomenal numbers, they are average-to-above average for the position.

 

I also think its too early to give up on some our bullpen arms like Castro and Fry. 

 

Obviously, pitching, infield and CF need to be addressed.   But to write off the entire team would be foolish.   

 

Mancini is slated to reach FA before the Os are likely become competitive again, but we might be able to buy out some arbitration years in an extension.  

 

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In general, I believe no one on the team is above being traded for the right offer. Having said that, anyone with 6+ years of control are probably off-limits. That means Santander, Means and Sisco, plus any other rookies. Anyone else is fair game but it would take a lot to move Mancini. 

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46 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

Everyone?   That seems a bit much.   We have some young, cost controlled talent that are playing quite well

 

Means 7-4  ERA 2.50 (!!) 

Severino OPS 829

Mancini OPS 901
Cisco OPS 1033

 

In addition, 

Santander  OPS 818 

Dwight Smith Jr.  OPS 755,

While not phenomenal numbers, they are average-to-above average for the position.

 

I also think its too early to give up on some our bullpen arms like Castro and Fry. 

 

Obviously, pitching, infield and CF need to be addressed.   But to write off the entire team would be foolish.   

 

Mancini is slated to reach FA before the Os are likely become competitive again, but we might be able to buy out some arbitration years in an extension.  

 

 

As @Hersh said, no one should be above getting traded if the right offer came in.  This is a HORRID team.  It's expected, but I've got complete trust in M.E.  I'm actually paying more attention to guys in the system moreso than in years past. 

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Fell asleep in the 7th inning but had a feeling Means wasn't going to get in the game.  Not surprised.  

 

If he can duplicate the his 1st half in the 2nd half, he'll have to warrant some serious rookie of the year consideration, though I think if Vlad Jr. heats up a little bit the voters are ready to hand that award to him.  And maybe a top 5 Cy Young.

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9 minutes ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

And Cashners gone for a pair of 17 yr olds from the Red Sox.  One of our two reliable pitchers.

 

Happy Cashner was traded. Hate the return. Not that these guys won’t be good but they are no where near being on the O’s. I’m not staying for 5 more years of losing.

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On 7/10/2019 at 10:52 PM, TheDoyler23 said:

I heard Means is pitching worse than his stats indicate. But the O’s defense isn’t very good and he has a 2.5 ERA. So I mean, what else can you do? (Besides get a little deeper into games, but oh well.) 

 

Fip near 4.00 & xFip over 5.00 - those are fielding independent stats.

 

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

Happy Cashner was traded. Hate the return. Not that these guys won’t be good but they are no where near being on the O’s. I’m not staying for 5 more years of losing.

 

Blaze & Kumar are on their way to Baltimore. 

 

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1 minute ago, volsmet said:

 

Fip near 4.00 & xFip over 5.00 - those are fielding independent stats.

 

 

The FIP has been coming down a little bit.  Probably going back up after todays game.  

 

I hear what you're saying though.  Certainly reason to think this is a mirage.

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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'm fine with the return.  We got two guys that would be considered J2 prospects after having a successful J2 signing period.  I don't have to know who we're getting in return for a guy who's having an outlier season for him.

 

I get acquiring one player that would be a total gamble. It would be nice to get a player that could be on the MLB roster in a couple years 

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1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

I get acquiring one player that would be a total gamble. It would be nice to get a player that could be on the MLB roster in a couple years 

 

These guys look like total wildcards but I think the return is better.   I'd rather take a chance on guys that could turn into stars rather than some 24-year old who projects to marginal MLB starter.   Those types can be had in free agency.   But young, cost-conrolled stars are critical for teams that don't have the war chest of the Yanks or Dodgers.    Because the Os cannot compete in FA for premium talent, they need to draft and develop it.

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1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

What, some fringe AAA type?  I'll take the two low level, higher upside guys.

 

49 minutes ago, DCSaints_fan said:

 

These guys look like total wildcards but I think the return is better.   I'd rather take a chance on guys that could turn into stars rather than some 24-year old who projects to marginal MLB starter.   Those types can be had in free agency.   But young, cost-conrolled stars are critical for teams that don't have the war chest of the Yanks or Dodgers.    Because the Os cannot compete in FA for premium talent, they need to draft and develop it.

 

You guys realize there are prospects in between 17 year-olds that are in the Dominican League and 24 year old fringe AAA prospects. How about at least one Single A type that could help in a couple years and one wild card low level, high upside. 

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3 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

The FIP has been coming down a little bit.  Probably going back up after todays game.  

 

I hear what you're saying though.  Certainly reason to think this is a mirage.

 

Watching him, he looks like he’s got a shot. His velocity is up & his change up is brilliant, but the fly ball numbers need to come down. He’s better than the Josh Towers types we have thrown out in the past who had early success.

 

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

What, some fringe AAA type?  I'll take the two low level, higher upside guys.

 

The whole of our haul last year is entirely useless ... 15 upper level minors bums with no upside. I much prefer what we did today.

 

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1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

 

You guys realize there are prospects in between 17 year-olds that are in the Dominican League and 24 year old fringe AAA prospects. How about at least one Single A type that could help in a couple years and one wild card low level, high upside. 

 

I do realize that.  But like I said for years we've been complaining that we never do anything in the Dominican and we finally get a GM who's a big believer in scouting and signing internationally.  He made a big effort in his first year to help change that.  Essentially the two guys he just picked up are extensions of that.  I don't hate this trade.  I understand where you're coming from with the A level talent but even then, there are no guarantees.  I'm not saying I'm crazy about this trade, I'm not saying it's terrible, either.  I understand the theory behind it and looking forward to seeing how it plays out. 

 

Prado is hitting .300 with essentially a 1:1 strikeout to walk ratio and an .818 OPS as a 17 year old against 18 and 19 year olds.  That's a good sign.

 

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

 

Watching him, he looks like he’s got a shot. His velocity is up & his change up is brilliant, but the fly ball numbers need to come down. He’s better than the Josh Towers types we have thrown out in the past who had early success.

 

 

Towers never struck anyone out, IIRC.  Means is a tick below league average on the strikeout rate but he also is a tick better on the walk rate.  

 

I'd like to see him develop a better third offering.  Right now he's essentially a two pitch pitcher, fastball and changeup...and the fact that he's done what he's done so far this year with just those two is really impressive.  I don't even think a curveball needs to be a killer, just something he can flash and make hitters respect it.  

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7 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

Watching him, he looks like he’s got a shot. His velocity is up & his change up is brilliant, but the fly ball numbers need to come down. He’s better than the Josh Towers types we have thrown out in the past who had early success.

 

 

The whole of our haul last year is entirely useless ... 15 upper level minors bums with no upside. I much prefer what we did today.

 

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of last season's trades. Maybe a couple guys will contribute meaningfully. I'm just looking for that happy medium between last year's trades and this trade. 

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7 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I do realize that.  But like I said for years we've been complaining that we never do anything in the Dominican and we finally get a GM who's a big believer in scouting and signing internationally.  He made a big effort in his first year to help change that.  Essentially the two guys he just picked up are extensions of that.  I don't hate this trade.  I understand where you're coming from with the A level talent but even then, there are no guarantees.  I'm not saying I'm crazy about this trade, I'm not saying it's terrible, either.  I understand the theory behind it and looking forward to seeing how it plays out. 

 

Prado is hitting .300 with essentially a 1:1 strikeout to walk ratio and an .818 OPS as a 17 year old against 18 and 19 year olds.  That's a good sign.

 

DD sucked in a lot of ways, but he's not the reason the O's weren't investing in the international market. That was 100% on Peter Angelos. Trades like yesterday are fine if the O's also start trying to increase their win total starting next season. If Hays, Akin, Mountcastle, Stewart are all up plus the O's spend on some pitching, then this trade works. If they don't spend anything in the off-season and they still claim they are mainly focused on stocking talent, I won't watch a single game. I'm not down with CD remaining next season and the O's not planning on trying to win for a few more seasons. Currently I watch maybe a couple innings per week if that. 

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14 hours ago, SkinFanInMinn said:

And Cashners gone for a pair of 17 yr olds from the Red Sox.  One of our two reliable pitchers.

 

I mean, we're 36 games under .500.  I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I dont think losing him is gonna make much difference.

 

He's a free agent after the season, that's pitching respectable, not lights out.  He wasnt gonna command much anyway.  

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1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

DD sucked in a lot of ways, but he's not the reason the O's weren't investing in the international market. That was 100% on Peter Angelos. Trades like yesterday are fine if the O's also start trying to increase their win total starting next season. If Hays, Akin, Mountcastle, Stewart are all up plus the O's spend on some pitching, then this trade works. If they don't spend anything in the off-season and they still claim they are mainly focused on stocking talent, I won't watch a single game. I'm not down with CD remaining next season and the O's not planning on trying to win for a few more seasons. Currently I watch maybe a couple innings per week if that. 

 

I think this trade works if either of the guys coming back turns out.  It's got nothing to do with any win total or who else is in Baltimore this year or next.  Prado and Romero have nothing to do with Hays (quickly heading towards being an injury riddled bust himself), Mountcastle (a player without a position and no OBP skills) and Stewart are up in Baltimore and whatever has been spent on pitching.  Prado and Romero have nothing to do with whether or not the Orioles win 55 games next year or 75.  Cashner's headed for free agency, there's chance he might not be back, it's good to get something for him than letting him walk and get nothing.  We can agree to disagree on who we should have gotten back but I am tired of quad-A types.  FFS, the last thing I want to see is another Hess, Yefry, Rogers types.  

 

In regards to the international market, I agree that it was on Angelos but at the end of the day it doesn't matter where to place the blame.  The Orioles have missed out on talent from down there for decades.  If it makes you feel better to place blame somewhere, I get it.  At least we have a GM now who's making the effort down there and has convinced either PGA or the sons (or both) that this needs to be done.

 

I understand your frustration but you made it from '98 through 2011, this isn't so bad.  

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Gotta have some patience with this.  

1 hour ago, Hersh said:

 

DD sucked in a lot of ways, but he's not the reason the O's weren't investing in the international market. That was 100% on Peter Angelos. Trades like yesterday are fine if the O's also start trying to increase their win total starting next season. If Hays, Akin, Mountcastle, Stewart are all up plus the O's spend on some pitching, then this trade works. If they don't spend anything in the off-season and they still claim they are mainly focused on stocking talent, I won't watch a single game. I'm not down with CD remaining next season and the O's not planning on trying to win for a few more seasons. Currently I watch maybe a couple innings per week if that. 

 

Half a season into a total organizational rebuild and you're already out of patience?  lol

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