PeterMP Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 4 minutes ago, Elessar78 said: Not sure that would work. About 15 years ago parishioners raised funds to build a new church building. Diocese swooped in and took a good percentage of that money saying that money belonged to the Diocese/Church and essentially forced my parish to take out a loan through some lending program they were running. Shady as hell. To tie into Clergy abuse... the parish priest at the time fought the bishop on taking the money. So eventually he was banished and put into retirement. Then it was “learned” that he had pictures of a teenage boy in the parish (scantily dressed). More info about this incident came out in the PA attorney general report. It looks like the church knew all along that he was commiting this crime and did nothing until they had a reason to shame him and give reason for his dismissal (other than disobedience). so. I have little confidence that even if I requested it my funds would not stay local. Nor would I be certain that it’s not supporting criminal activity. It is the law (at least in NJ, but I'm pretty sure it was a federal law). There is some form you have to fill out or something (we did it years ago). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 @PeterMP these are two sources for stats I put out concerning payroll and not wanting to talk about it https://pushpay.com/blog/church-giving-statistics/ https://thomrainer.com/2016/11/six-sursix-surprises-about-church-staff-salaries-and-budgets Organized Religion is going to die off only in the sense of there being less to no churches with regular congregations left. I believe you'll always be able to purchase a bible or visit a historic religious building. How the catholic church van continue to stare death in the face and keep cutting itself on belief it will never bleed out is beyond me. I have zero faith they can make the reforms neccesary to set the standard for this middle ground organized religion needs to achieve to survive in a world that doesnt need it. That's what it would take to avoid by crash and burn then rebuild belief on what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 16 hours ago, TheGreatBuzz said: I once again renew my call for the Catholic church to be named a criminal enterprise. agreed*, along with xtianity, islam, and judaism (as a good start) and of course, the gop (or as it's known these days, the trump organization) *full disclosure, i was kicked out of catholic school in 6th grade for calling out the nun on her bull**** re: noah's ark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 10:42 AM, Renegade7 said: @PeterMP these are two sources for stats I put out concerning payroll and not wanting to talk about it https://pushpay.com/blog/church-giving-statistics/ https://thomrainer.com/2016/11/six-sursix-surprises-about-church-staff-salaries-and-budgets Organized Religion is going to die off only in the sense of there being less to no churches with regular congregations left. I believe you'll always be able to purchase a bible or visit a historic religious building. How the catholic church van continue to stare death in the face and keep cutting itself on belief it will never bleed out is beyond me. I have zero faith they can make the reforms neccesary to set the standard for this middle ground organized religion needs to achieve to survive in a world that doesnt need it. That's what it would take to avoid by crash and burn then rebuild belief on what will happen. The Catholic Church is trouble because it is run by a bunch of out of touch old men and doesn't respond well to criticism or change nor is moved due to things like capitalistic principles. My understanding among Protestantism is that the mega-churches are becoming more widespread and are even developing "satellite" branches that offer things like sermons via video screens. The Protestent method of Christianity, where at least capitalist like principles apply, is simultaneously killing and saving Christianity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted February 6, 2019 Share Posted February 6, 2019 7 minutes ago, PeterMP said: The Catholic Church is trouble because it is run by a bunch of out of touch old men and doesn't respond well to criticism or change nor is moved due to things like capitalistic principles. My understanding among Protestantism is that the mega-churches are becoming more widespread and are even developing "satellite" branches that offer things like sermons via video screens. The Protest method of Christianity, where at least capitalist like principles apply, is simultaneously killing and saving Christianity. Irony here is passing laws to limit the capitalistic like principles and loopholes would possibly do the same thing. Really interesting you put it that way, I agree with you, this still feels terminal to me. Like giving wolverine antimantium then finding out it's poisoning him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCSaints_fan Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 On 2/6/2019 at 7:42 AM, Renegade7 said: @PeterMP these are two sources for stats I put out concerning payroll and not wanting to talk about it https://pushpay.com/blog/church-giving-statistics/ https://thomrainer.com/2016/11/six-sursix-surprises-about-church-staff-salaries-and-budgets Organized Religion is going to die off only in the sense of there being less to no churches with regular congregations left. I believe you'll always be able to purchase a bible or visit a historic religious building. How the catholic church van continue to stare death in the face and keep cutting itself on belief it will never bleed out is beyond me. I have zero faith they can make the reforms neccesary to set the standard for this middle ground organized religion needs to achieve to survive in a world that doesnt need it. That's what it would take to avoid by crash and burn then rebuild belief on what will happen. I can definitely see the US becoming more like Europe http://www.pewforum.org/2018/06/13/how-religious-commitment-varies-by-country-among-people-of-all-ages/ But ironically, Western Europeans still sort of cling to religion even if they aren't regular attendees. Both the US and Western European countires have pretty much the same percentage of that report "religiously unaffiliated" (roughly 25%) http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/09/05/u-s-adults-are-more-religious-than-western-europeans/ Another point though, and I can't find the article on this, this percentage is trending higher amongst the younger generations Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 To tie in... learned today that wife’s cousin was a seminarian in DC. He was very devout and wanted to be a priest since he was a kid. He left the seminary abruptly a few years ago. Word is that it’s related to all this. Crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Was he abused, or an abuser, or just an ignored witness? Semenarian, or seminarian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Funny that there are all these documentaries about the evil inside the criminal empire AKA Scientology but not so much on the catholic church..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 39 minutes ago, Riggo-toni said: Was he abused, or an abuser, or just an ignored witness? Semenarian, or seminarian? Sadly don’t know. I’d like to think he was only a victim but that’s weird in itself. I don’t think it’s the ignored witness variety. he had a long term girlfriend after he left the seminary, so there’s that. Means something and nothing at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 NYT: Gay Priests speak out https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/17/us/it-is-not-a-closet-it-is-a-cage-gay-catholic-priests-speak-out.html Fewer than about 10 priests in the United States have dared to come out publicly. But gay men likely make up at least 30 to 40 percent of the American Catholic clergy, according to dozens of estimates from gay priests themselves and researchers. Some priests say the number is closer to 75 percent. One priest in Wisconsin said he assumed every priest is gay unless he knows for a fact he is not. A priest in Florida put it this way: “A third are gay, a third are straight, and a third don’t know what the hell they are.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 A healthy 25 percent are pedophiles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Posted February 17, 2019 Author Share Posted February 17, 2019 6 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said: An unhealthy 25 percent are pedophiles... FTFY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan T. Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 Here's the list, released by the Arlington Diocese, of priests "credibly accused" of sexual misconduct: Priests Incardinated to the Diocese of Arlington Religious Order Priests Richmond Diocese Priests Later Incardinated into Arlington Diocese Note: In 2011, allegations were brought to the Diocese of Arlington regarding Father Terry Specht. In keeping with policy, the allegations were immediately reported to law enforcement and Father Specht was placed on administrative leave. The Arlington Diocesan Review Board was not able to come to a decision as to the credibility of the accusations against Father Specht. Further, law enforcement has not brought any charges or continued the investigation. Not long after being placed on leave, Father’s health became such that he requested and was granted medical retirement. He now lives in retirement, does not have faculties for priestly ministry, and will not return to priestly ministry. (Father Specht was the Pastor at Holy Spirit Catholic Church in Annandale, Virginia from 2007 to 2012.) https://www.arlingtondiocese.org/clergyabuselist/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elessar78 Posted February 19, 2019 Share Posted February 19, 2019 I'll speak for myself as someone who has loosely identified as "Catholic" as an adult—not sure what to think: Is The Message wrong because the messengers have been flawed? I say loosely because I was raised non-demoninational Protestant (through my dad) until ~age 12. We dabbled in Southern Baptist and Methodist through my teen years. After my parents got divorced, my mom went back to the Catholic church (she was raised Catholic and is now a practicing Catholic). I made a decision in college to go to Catholic mass. I still see myself as mostly non-denominational Christian, because we all worship the same God (as Judaism and Islam too, in fact). The differences are mainly temporal and human. The main rules apply: respect God, be kind to others, don't screw anyone over, help those in need (pretty much true for the 3 monotheistic religions) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD0506 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visionary Posted February 26, 2019 Share Posted February 26, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted February 27, 2019 Share Posted February 27, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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