redskinss Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 You do have to ask yourself this, if he has the potential to switch to guard and be much better then why the hell didn't the other two teams who had him try that? Especially considering the giants offensive line could have used help everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Im personally not a fan of the Flowers signing, but the contract numbers need to be out in perspective. He's getting 1m plus 500k gtd salary. IF he makes the roster and plays these season, the rest comes into play. For now, its a 1.5mil outlay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 37 minutes ago, Master Blaster said: It never ceases to amaze me how posters on here think moves by other teams are good simply because they know the name. Kinda like the optimism some have for Flowers. He's never been good, and I'm not sure why anyone would feel otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 9 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: So that is $1.5M guaranteed with a bunch of incentives, basically? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 25 minutes ago, carex said: he was good enough to be a first round draft pick. And despite his issues coming out of college that is where he was predicted to go But he was and is a terrible pro football player so who cares where he was drafted. Draft stock is completely irrelevant this many years into a pro career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bantu said: Kinda like the optimism some have for Flowers. He's never been good, and I'm not sure why anyone would feel otherwise. Stay Medium Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, redskinss said: You do have to ask yourself this, if he has the potential to switch to guard and be much better then why the hell didn't the other two teams who had him try that? Especially considering the giants offensive line could have used help everywhere. I agree with this. my main concern now is that we overlook LG high in the draft. I hope that is not the case, need one picked on either day one or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bantu said: Kinda like the optimism some have for Flowers. He's never been good, and I'm not sure why anyone would feel otherwise. Because he's never been tried at guard, the Skins have a very good OLine coach, and it costs nothing to imagine a best-case scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: So that is $1.5M guaranteed with a bunch of incentives, basically? Essentially correct, just posted the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Bantu said: But he was and is a terrible pro football player so who cares where he was drafted. Draft stock is completely irrelevant this many years into a pro career. there's been plenty of guys who've stepped up later in their career. That pass rusher we're looking at Brandon Copeland is one example 6 minutes ago, redskinss said: You do have to ask yourself this, if he has the potential to switch to guard and be much better then why the hell didn't the other two teams who had him try that? Especially considering the giants offensive line could have used help everywhere. they had others to play the other positions, they needed a tackle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Califan007 said: Because he's never been tried at guard, the Skins have a very good OLine coach, and it costs nothing to imagine a best-case scenario. It costs someone younger and cheaper a roster spot for a guy that hasn't just disappointed, but appears to not be able to play at this level. Yeah, but who cares about practice reps at Camp Jay, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Bantu said: But he was and is a terrible pro football player so who cares where he was drafted. Draft stock is completely irrelevant this many years into a pro career. Because it tells you the talent you are working with when bringing him in. I played DI football and played with a guy who went on to be a Captain of an NFL team. This is by no means a way to diminish him, but his god-given athletic abilities were unbelievable. I don't care how hard I would have worked I never could have been him. There's one thing that a coach can't improve, and that's talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I'm wondering if this is gonna be somewhat like what happened with Adam Carriker...1st round draft pick, played DT although he was better suited to play DE, got traded to the Skins after 3 years underperforming with the Rams, got switched to DE, and had a decent, productive run (though short) with the Redskins. 6 minutes ago, Bantu said: It costs someone younger and cheaper a roster spot for a guy that hasn't just disappointed, but appears to not be able to play at this level. Yeah, but who cares about practice reps at Camp Jay, anyway. Fans imagining a best case scenario doesn't cost younger, cheaper players ****. And that's who you're talking to...fans. Nobody knows what the Skins are thinking other than they structured a contract that they could dump with a certain level of ease if they see him as not being worth the time...and they've done that numerous times in the past. The only reason anyone has to **** about this move is because they've convinced themselves that Bruce et al are already planning on starting Flowers without him even going through OTAs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 minute ago, Master Blaster said: Because it tells you the talent you are working with when bringing him in. I played DI football and played with a guy who went on to by a Captain of an NFL team. This is by no means a way to diminish him, but his god-given athletic abilities were unbelievable. I don't care how hard I would have worked I never could have been him. There's one thing that a coach can't improve, and that's talent. Completely agree if he's ever flashed any talent. All he's shown is that he can't play in the NFL at all. It isn't that he's disappointed in regards to where he was drafted, it's that he is he isn't competent enough to be on a roster according to my eyeballs and EVERY Giants fan when speaking of him. If Bill Callahan can get this scrub to legitimately earn his way on to the roster, than he is an effing coaching genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 12 minutes ago, redskinss said: You do have to ask yourself this, if he has the potential to switch to guard and be much better then why the hell didn't the other two teams who had him try that? Especially considering the giants offensive line could have used help everywhere. What other two teams? He was drafted by the giants and tried at left and right tackle. The giants haven't exactly been the model of finding and developing OL talent recently. His guarantee is basically 1.5 million. For a former 1st round OT, age 24. It's nothing. This was a no brainer move. Almost nothing risked, and a good bit to gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: What other two teams? He was drafted by the giants and tried at left and right tackle. The giants haven't exactly been the model of finding and developing OL talent recently. His guarantee is basically 1.5 million. For a former 1st round OT, age 24. It's nothing. This was a no brainer move. Almost nothing risked, and a good bit to gain. He played for the Jags as well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bantu Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I'm wondering if this is gonna be somewhat like what happened with Adam Carriker...1st round draft pick, played DT although he was better suited to play DE, got traded to the Skins after 3 years underperforming with the Rams, got switched to DE, and had a decent, productive run (though short) with the Redskins. Fans imagining a best case scenario doesn't cost younger, cheaper players ****. And that's who you're talking to...fans. Nobody knows what the Skins are thinking other than they structured a contract that they could dump with a certain level of ease if they see him as not being worth the time...and they've done that numerous times in the past. The only reason anyone has to **** about this move is because they've convinced themselves that Bruce et al are already planning on starting Flowers without him even going thrtough OTAs. Carriker is an awful comp to Flowers because Carriker, while not a dominant player by any means, showed he could actually play in this league when he was with the Rams. Flowers hasn't shown he even belongs on a pro roster in any capacity. And it does cost a roster spot and salary cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Blaster Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 6 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said: What other two teams? He was drafted by the giants and tried at left and right tackle. The giants haven't exactly been the model of finding and developing OL talent recently. His guarantee is basically 1.5 million. For a former 1st round OT, age 24. It's nothing. This was a no brainer move. Almost nothing risked, and a good bit to gain. No the Redskins are only supposed to sign 53 All-Pro's for Vet Min plus incentives and have 28 draft picks each year. Every backseat GM on here could do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 As long as we treat the Flowers signing as a low risk gamble at fixing the guard position and not "job done", then I'm OK with it. I really don't want to see him playing tackle unless every other option on the team is incapable of standing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Burden of proof is on the Skins and Flowers himself. They’re the perpetual **** ups lol Also, this is another move where there’s no clear upgrade to team. In fact, this might be a downgrade even from Lauvao since he was actually a guard. Outside of Collins (and even there, I’m unsure of the actual on field talent upgrade compared to DJ), there’s been no improvement from opening day 2018. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 21 minutes ago, Bantu said: It costs someone younger and cheaper a roster spot for a guy that hasn't just disappointed, but appears to not be able to play at this level. Yeah, but who cares about practice reps at Camp Jay, anyway. if they're going to draft a guard they still will, and if you're talking UDFA, then the 90th man on our roster isn't going to solve the problems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskinss Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, Master Blaster said: No the Redskins are only supposed to sign 53 All-Pro's for Vet Min plus incentives and have 28 draft picks each year. Every backseat GM on here could do it. I never said I was against the signing, as a matter of fact I like the potential upside of it. All I did was point out that it's a red flag that neither the giants or the Jaguars even attempted to play him at guard. Or what is even more likely is that in practice they did and weren't impressed. Maybe it works out maybe it doesn't, there was certainly little risk involved but to think we saw the potential he has at guard while two other teams didn't is kinda sticking your head in the sand a little. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Don't know how much stock anyone puts into PFF's grades, but in case it wasn't shown yet n the thread, here are their grades from last year: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carex Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 11 minutes ago, Bantu said: Carriker is an awful comp to Flowers because Carriker, while not a dominant player by any means, showed he could actually play in this league when he was with the Rams. Flowers hasn't shown he even belongs on a pro roster in any capacity. And it does cost a roster spot and salary cap space. the man never even lost his starting job while he was on rosters 1 minute ago, redskinss said: I never said I was against the signing, as a matter of fact I like the potential upside of it. All I did was point out that it's a red flag that neither the giants or the Jaguars even attempted to play him at guard. Or what is even more likely is that in practice they did and weren't impressed. Maybe it works out maybe it doesn't, there was certainly little risk involved but to think we saw the potential he has at guard while two other teams didn't is kinda sticking your head in the sand a little. they had pencilled him in at starting tackle spots. That does not encourage the experimentation of moving him to guard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Welp, apparently this was all done already lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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