Riggo-toni

The 2019 Free Agency Tracker -Added: Landon Collins, Rodgers-Cromartie, Donald Penn, Flowers, Smallwood. Lost:Preston Smith, Nsekhe, Crowder, HaHa

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2 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He is vastly overpaid for being a good but not great box safety.

 

Re: the second sentence

 

Preston Smith

 

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Landon Collins

 

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About the same, except Preston Smith was better last season and his deal is a little cheaper and he plays a vastly more valuable position.  We're treading water.

 

PFF is cool but...not the end all be all.

 

HaHa was a 79.3.

 

I believe missed games lowers the number.

 

I also believe Landon Collins has been a more impactful player, from a less valuable position. I also think he was overpaid, but not by a ton. Prices are going up. Id rather have Collins on a similar deal to what Preston got. I think our Defense is better with the exchange of Preston and Collins. I think you may be overrating the overrating of Collins and his deal.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I think I'm over "box safety" being a complete pejorative when describing a player.  

 

It's not a pejorative.  But it's telling that people think it is.

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Just now, redskinss said:

True but I just dont see a von Miller type move as one that puts us over the top.

Many of those examples you listed are quarterbacks who had supporting casts far better than what we have even with a von miller.

You used case Keenum with the Vikings as an example and I'd like to point out the flipside of that argument. 

The Vikings may have found out the hard way what happens when you build a great roster but not around a franchise signal caller.

 

There are certainly ways to win a superbowl without a franchise quarterback but not the most common and effective ones and believe the smartest plan for the Redskins is to continue to try to win with a plan on how to acquire a potential franchise quarterback. 

 

That's why I love the thought of getting Rosen on the cheap, I think he still has a ton of potential and we can continue to build around him.

 

If we could somehow pull off a trade with Arizona for a second or third round pick I wouldn't be totally opposed to a blockbuster trade similar to what the bears did with mack last year.

 

I think you can do both, especially with a rookie or Rosen. Both are on rookie deals, very affordable. All in good fun to discuss and thank you for conversing. Me, personally, I think with Von Miller we are a top 5 defense. You can't coach the speed and fire that man has. I'd easily give up what the Bears gave up for Khalil Mack.

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3 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

Are people seriously comparing Preston Smith to Landon Collins now? An allpro and multiple time probowler to a very average pass rusher? What world is this?

 

A world where our petulant pseudo-fans see Dave Gettleman setting the New York Giants on fire and proclaiming him to be a savvy GM that builds a team “the right way”.

2 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

PFF is cool but...not the end all be all.

 

HaHa was a 79.3.

 

I believe missed games lowers the number.

 

I also believe Landon Collins has been a more impactful player, from a less valuable position. I also think he was overpaid, but not by a ton. Prices are going up. Id rather have Collins on a similar deal to what Preston got. I think our Defense is better with the exchange of Preston and Collins. I think you may be overrating the overrating of Collins and his deal.

 

 

 

Lets also pretend that 2015-2017 didn’t happen.

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While we are on the box safety thing...

 

I don't see it as an insult. I believe in todays game the box safety is going to become more valuable, used correctly. You want to beat Brady? Get a good box safety. Someone that can play the run and the underneath routes. Landon Collins would have helped the Chargers vs the Pats more than the vaunted Derwin James did...just sayin 🤷‍♂️ 

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A massive red flag that you might be overselling the “Giants are making savvy moves” narrative.  Take heed!

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

If we resign Haha that means the entire middle of our defense and one of our edge players will be Alabama dudes.  Good Lord.

 

Well on the bright side. At least Bruce doesnt have an infatuation with a small school instead. I dont know what a defense built with players from say Appalachian State would look like.

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1 hour ago, CurseReversed said:

Because he is not just a safety.  He is a 3 time pro bowler in the prime of his career.  A play maker and a team leader who many of the players on our defense already know and respect.  

A quality person and player who WANTS to be here and who, more importantly, our players want to be here.

He is literally the perfect fit. 

 

Great to hear. None of this tells me what to expect from him in this defense from a schematic standpoint. But... I agree, leadership is hard to come by.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

. You can't coach the speed and fire that man has. I'd easily give up what the Bears gave up for Khalil Mack.

Yes but the difference between the bears and us is that they have what they believe is their franchise quarterback and our quarterback situation right now is a mess that got only marginally better by signing Keenum. 

 

After the last 25 years I'd take a championship any damn way I could get one but I'd certainly prefer doing it in a way that is at least potentially sustainable. 

 

If somehow we were able to pull of a miracle like trade for Miller and won the superbowl within a couple years with Keenum and a devastating defense we'd most likely be in cap hell immediately after and right back in the cellar with no light at the end of the tunnel. 

I want to be a Steelers type team who gets a great quarterback and makes smart decisions to build continued success instead of just a flash in the pan and right back to laughing stock.

 

But then again I don't see the management from this team ever getting their **** together and pulling that off so most likely a total pipe dream.

Edited by redskinss

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's not worth paying 14 million a year to keep.  Same reason we let Preston Smith go.

 

I get that we want to love Collins.  It's nice to sign a guy at a position of need who wants to be here.  But the fact remains we paid elite cornerback money to get PFF's 39th ranked safety last season.  It was a desperate overpay to fill a hole and help a lame duck front office and coaching staff survive another season or two.  And unfortunately his salary is such that, unless he suddenly becomes a DPOY caliber player, we will have to cut or renegotiate him after that second season in order to avoid the 17 million dollar cap hit, and eat 9 million in dead cap if we cut him.

 

So now to boost your narrative you are going to compare an All Pro and 3 time pro bowler to Preston Smith? Really?

 

Edit: And who gives a **** what PFF says about anyone? They have David Baktiari listed as the best tackle in the league, Calais Campbell as the best edge player in the NFL and Stephon Gilmore as the best CB in the league. Basically that entire site is full of ****.

Edited by clskinsfan
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1 minute ago, dballer said:

 

PFF is cool but...not the end all be all.

 

HaHa was a 79.3.

 

I believe missed games lowers the number.

 

I also believe Landon Collins has been a more impactful player, from a less valuable position. I also think he was overpaid, but not by a ton. Prices are going up. Id rather have Collins on a similar deal to what Preston got. I think our Defense is better with the exchange of Preston and Collins. I think you may be overrating the overrating of Collins and his deal.

 

I agree about PFF, but they do grade tangible on-field results.  They're not blinded by a player's reputation, which is what's going on with the moony-eyed homers in this thread.  The same posters who will be howling for the team to cut him in two years after he doesn't even come close to matching their expectations or justifying his salary.

 

HaHa's number feels fair.  He was having a very strong season before the Packers traded him here.  He struggled for us, but that was probably a natural result of having to adjust to the new defense on the fly.  It also didn't help any of our defensive players that the offense fell apart around that time and hung the defense out to dry.

 

I wouldn't mind bringing HaHa back at a small number.  But if it's going to cost a lot to keep him, I would let him walk and try and get a comp pick to recoup the pick we spent to get him.

 

2016 Collins was great.  Everything clicked for that defense and he was a major part of their success against the run, plus he had a major outlier year for picks.  But he hasn't come close to matching that level of play in the three other years of his career.  I think his reputation is still being propped up by that season, when the truth is he is much closer to being average at his position than great.  He's really good at doing a couple of things: blitzing, sitting down in the curl and reading the QB's eyes, and playing force off the hip of the 7-9 technique.  He's solid at press man on TEs.  And he's a liability at everything else.  On the whole, that's a pretty good player if you use him right.  But if a box duty safety is making elite corner money, then he better ****ing be Bob Sanders or Troy Polamalu.  I don't think we're going to suddenly see Collins make that leap here.  He's not that kind of athlete nor does he have those kinds of instincts.  I think he was maxing out his potential in New York starting in that second season when they figured out he needs to play in the box, and that he stopped being great when the Giants deteriorated around him and they stopped being able to cover up his weaknesses.

 

If we're not smart, and try and use him in a two deep scheme, then he's going to struggle and the contract will be terrible.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, actorguy1 said:

Art said yesterday they plan to get some quality defensive players in for a visit one free agency officially tomorrow at 4pm. Take em all to Morton's Steakhouse!

 

10 hours ago, RWJ said:

Anyone got any ideas on who Art might be talking about with those that are still available other than S?  Of those still available I've got EDGE Markus Golden, ILB Gerald Hodges, CB Ronald Darby.  Those are really some of the best of the rest available at 12:24am on 3/13.  I've missed some I know.  :)

 

I think what I specifically said is if Mosely got here for a visit he'd be ours and I know for sure I told RWJ that there are two tiers of players now.   The good and the maybe.   The good was a VERY small pool.   Young players good at their positions.   In a free agent pool Preston Smith is your No. 12, there isn't a lot out there.   The Skins went in on three (third name will come out eventually or I'll just start mentioning it as if it had next time I visit in six months) and got one.   At this point what Keim says is effectively what I said at some point yesterday.   Look for targets of opportunity on prove it deals.   There are no more free agent splashes left.   There are trade splashes.   But those are complex and might more likely happen once free agency settles team needs a bit more, if at all.

I will say the way we ran this free agency is different from the past as we typically would just keep upping offers until the guy said yes.   Here we actually held to a perceived value and target number and let others do what we always did.   Not sure if that's good or bad, but it's something.

 

Edited by Art
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6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I agree about PFF, but they do grade tangible on-field results.  They're not blinded by a player's reputation, which is what's going on with the moony-eyed homers in this thread.  The same posters who will be howling for the team to cut him in two years after he doesn't even come close to matching their expectations or justifying his salary.

 

HaHa's number feels fair.  He was having a very strong season before the Packers traded him here.  He struggled for us, but that was probably a natural result of having to adjust to the new defense on the fly.  It also didn't help any of our defensive players that the offense fell apart around that time and hung the defense out to dry.

 

I wouldn't mind bringing HaHa back at a small number.  But if it's going to cost a lot to keep him, I would let him walk and try and get a comp pick to recoup the pick we spent to get him.

 

2016 Collins was great.  Everything clicked for that defense and he was a major part of their success against the run, plus he had a major outlier year for picks.  But he hasn't come close to matching that level of play in the three other years of his career.  I think his reputation is still being propped up by that season, when the truth is he is much closer to being average at his position than great.  He's really good at doing a couple of things: blitzing, sitting down in the curl and reading the QB's eyes, and playing force off the hip of the 7-9 technique.  He's solid at press man on TEs.  And he's a liability at everything else.  On the whole, that's a pretty good player if you use him right.  But if a box duty safety is making elite corner money, then he better ****ing be Bob Sanders or Troy Polamalu.  I don't think we're going to suddenly see Collins make that leap here.  He's not that kind of athlete nor does he have those kinds of instincts.  I think he was maxing out his potential in New York starting in that second season when they figured out he needs to play in the box, and that he stopped being great when the Giants deteriorated around him and they stopped being able to cover up his weaknesses.

 

If we're not smart, and try and use him in a two deep scheme, then he's going to struggle and the contract will be terrible.

 

 

HaHa was absolutely not having a good season. Packers fans were happy he was traded to us and felt he was part of the problem. 

 

PFF's grades are the same as back when people used to argue about whether or not Derek Jeter was a good infielder. 

 

Sure he graded out well, but the complete lack of range made him a bad defender, despite doing everything technically right. 

 

Same goes for the PFF grades. 

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11 minutes ago, dballer said:

While we are on the box safety thing...

 

I don't see it as an insult. I believe in todays game the box safety is going to become more valuable, used correctly. You want to beat Brady? Get a good box safety. Someone that can play the run and the underneath routes. Landon Collins would have helped the Chargers vs the Pats more than the vaunted Derwin James did...just sayin 🤷‍♂️  

 

Derwin James is a box safety too.  He's a way bigger talent than Collins and played way better last season.

 

It's not a pejorative, it's an accurate description of Collins's position and role.  He is a safety who needs to play in the box to do his thing.  The reason TTB took it as an insult is because he knows the position has low value and that we spent too much to fill it.  When simple statements of truth and conventional knowledge are threatening and insulting to someone, then there is a conflict between reality and their agenda.  TTB's defensive snark is just how he reacts to that conflict, and the reflexive homerism that thinly-veils his bitterness is how he has learned to cope with the futility and disappointment of rooting for DC's football and basketball teams.

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12 minutes ago, redskinss said:

Yes but the difference between the bears and us is that they have what they believe is their franchise quarterback and our quarterback situation right now is a mess that got only marginally better by signing Keenum. 

 

After the last 25 years I'd take a championship any damn way I could get one but I'd certainly prefer doing it in a way that is at least potentially sustainable. 

 

If somehow we were able to pull of a miracle like trade for Miller and won the superbowl within a couple years with Keenum and a devastating defense we'd most likely be in cap hell immediately after and right back in the cellar with no light at the end of the tunnel. 

I want to be a Steelers type team who gets a great quarterback and makes smart decisions to build continued success instead of just a flash in the pan and right back to laughing stock.

 

But then again I don't see the management from this team ever getting their **** together and pulling that off so most likely a total pipe dream.

No one can say for sure what the Keenum signing will mean to this offense. Charlie Weis praised the trade for the Skins and talked about how good Keenum was in 2017. He nearly took the Vikings to the SB without their starting RB. Keenum may be and likely is an upgrade to Alex Smith after we saw how little Smith did while he played and the team still won 6 games. I'm optimistic that Keenum won't be asked to do too much and will surprise us with how well he and Jay connect. We do need to get him some playmakers though. If I were Jay I'd put CT in as a WR more given our lack of playmakers. Similar to how the Steelers used Bell.

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7 minutes ago, SkinsNoles21 said:

HaHa was absolutely not having a good season. Packers fans were happy he was traded to us and felt he was part of the problem. 

 

I don't trust Packers fans to know anything any more than I trust Redskins fans.  PFF's grading system has plenty of limitations, but they ball park a player's actual level of performance better than most by charting positive and negative outcomes for their snaps.

 

I don't know how you feel about the Collins signing, but if you're concerned about HaHa's range, then I don't think you're going to like Collins.

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4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

12-1 for the Browns, wow. Vegas IMO getting a bit carried away

 

 

 

 

 

The Browns are the sexy pick, so Vegas is trying to take advantage of that.

 

one more thing to consider is they still have Kareem Hunt in the mix.  

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

No one can say for sure what the Keenum signing will mean to this offense. Charlie Weis praised the trade for the Skins and talked about how good Keenum was in 2017. He nearly took the Vikings to the SB without their starting RB. Keenum may be and likely is an upgrade to Alex Smith after we saw how little Smith did while he played and the team still won 6 games. I'm optimistic that Keenum won't be asked to do too much and will surprise us with how well he and Jay connect. We do need to get him some playmakers though. If I were Jay I'd put CT in as a WR more given our lack of playmakers. Similar to how the Steelers used Bell.

You're absolutely right, no one knows how Keenum will do in our offense under Gruden, and if he can replicate what he did in Minnesota I'll be thrillled.

 

The fact remains that despite a 13 and 3 season in Minnesota they moved on from him and despite a large contract from the Broncos they moved on from him after only one year, to Joe Flacco of all people, not exactly an inspiring upgrade. 

 

 the bar for Redskins quarterbacks has been set so low that Keenum is where skins fans think it should be.

It isn't,  Keenum is what teams that cant find a franchise quarterback settle for, and if we can't get somebody better I'll certainly take him over Sanchez or Johnson but I really hope we can find a guy we can get behind with serious hope towards our future.

 

Right now that guy is not on our roster.

 

Edited by redskinss
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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't trust Packers fans to know anything any more than I trust Redskins fans.  PFF's grading system has plenty of limitations, but they ball park a player's actual level of performance better than most by charting positive and negative outcomes for their snaps.

 

I don't know how you feel about the Collins signing, but if you're concerned about HaHa's range, then I don't think you're going to like Collins.

 

Misread.   Delete.

Edited by Art

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11 hours ago, rumplestilskin said:

Now the Browns are after Earl Thomas. #DREAMTEAM.

We did that a few times.

 

I know it's easy to pile on the Browns, hell, that was the one franchise that has been "the joke" for decades for the most part.  Even worse than our organization.  Then, unlike Snyder, the Haslams (who knew nothing about running an NFL franchise) turned it over to Dorsey to run the show.  In two years, he has turned that franchise around from one that won one game total between 2016-17 into one that finished 7-8-1 last year.

 

Sure, the record is below .500 last year and they didn't win a game in 2017 (his first year) but he took over the worst franchise in football.  And his decision to fire both Hue and Haley after 8 games, while I'm not normally a fan of firing coaches during the season, turned out to be the best thing that happened to them in the last three seasons.  

 

Mayfield's production sky rocketed after they were fired and he wasn't being held back any longer.  I think they would have made the playoffs last season if they weren't in such a hole starting 2-5-1.  They probably should have at least 2 more wins, if not for having a ****ty place kicker (Saints game) and getting screwed at the end of the game by the refs (Raiders game).  

 

Their main issue right now is o-line.  I'm speculating that it will be addressed in the draft since they traded their LG to the Giants and have a second year player filling that role and had injuries last year.  Adding Beckham and pairing him with Landry gives Baker one of the best WR duos in the league.  If they are healthy, they are a playoff team.  

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

The Browns are the sexy pick, so Vegas is trying to take advantage of that.

 

one more thing to consider is they still have Kareem Hunt in the mix.  

 

I get the Browns being sexy.  It brings me back to the ESPN article weeks back where they supposedly decided 2 years ago to take steps forward by taking steps back -- tank to rebuild.  Strip salary, add picks.  Then reboot and go for the kill.   In theory, it looks like it worked.  The two GMs that I can think of that were much ballyhooed as good gets recently were Dorsey and Ballard.  Both teams looking good now. 

 

 

This dude below often wrong (as I said yesterday Stevethedraft on twitter often takes his stuff saying he heard this directly from Redskins Park 😀) but maybe he will be right eventually. He floated the Tyrell Williams name out there for awhile now, Tate is new.  Just posting it here because he tends to fuel twitter rumor stuff.  So I am gathering the Golden Tate drill will catch some fire on that front.  The only credence that makes sense to me about it is Keim said before FA that he heard they had some interest in Beasley and there is some thought that Quinn can play outside.  Otherwise, Tate wouldn't fit the narrative that Keim or Russell are putting out about what they are going to do in FA -- unless Tate can be surprisingly had on the cheap.  

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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