HardcoreZorn Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, Peregrine said: So Zorn was notoriously soft, but now in this forum hes Hardcore? Got it. Think you may be missing the boat with regards to the play on his name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 14 minutes ago, London Kev said: I'm obviously hoping that we've pulled off some kind of master stoke by converting Flowers to guard, but it's been pointed out (by Mark Bullock breaking down film IIRC) that he's got poor hands (I'm assuming he meant hand-placement, strength and/or quickness). I'm no expert by any means, but I thought that good hands is a bit of a requirement for a guard. Could any of you more knowledgeable ES'ers add anything to this? Hands are very important for a guard and Geoff Schwartz is on the record as saying his hands are bad and he does not think he can be coached but this is where hopefully Callahan will earn his corn. Schwartz clearly has an agenda here and would be all kinds of butthurt if we took a Giants bust and made a decent starter out of him and a lot of evaluators back when he was drafted felt his bad habits were correctable so I guess we will see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said: So we are notoriously cheap, but in this instance Flowers came here for the money? Got it. I've heard us continue to get criticism for over paying for free agents (although that's a tired narrative based on action's that took place years ago) - but I've never heard us being accused of being 'cheap' when it comes to contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Just now, MartinC said: I've heard us continue to get criticism for over paying for free agents (although that's a tired narrative based on action's that took place years ago) - but I've never heard us being accused of being 'cheap' when it comes to contracts. Really? There’s a huge running narrative now that we have over corrected and won’t pony up to get big time talent. I’ve never really agreed as I always looked at guys like Djax, Pierre, Norman, now Collins as examples of this FO shelling out for guys they believe can help the team. The Kirk fiasco fueled that as well, but yeah, I don’t believe that to be the case. Was a little jab at some fans that get really riled up we only go dumpster diving, yet get annoyed that it’s somwhow possible a player WANTS to play here due to reasons other than money. Both can’t really be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 This is interesting. I didn't remember Caleb Brantley being on the team. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 40 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said: Really? There’s a huge running narrative now that we have over corrected and won’t pony up to get big time talent. We just signed Landon Collins to a 6 year $84 million deal which is at least a 3 year $45M deal. It was the biggest deal ever given to a safety until the Ravens signed Earl Thomas to a slightly bigger deal about a week later. I follow this team REALLY closely and all the media associated with the team and I even interact with some of said local media. I have not heard any running narrative about the team being cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Scherff talks so 'ongoing' per Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 34 minutes ago, MartinC said: We just signed Landon Collins to a 6 year $84 million deal which is at least a 3 year $45M deal. It was the biggest deal ever given to a safety until the Ravens signed Earl Thomas to a slightly bigger deal about a week later. I follow this team REALLY closely and all the media associated with the team and I even interact with some of said local media. I have not heard any running narrative about the team being cheap. I see some people that say they tend to be cheap when signing their own players, but reckless when paying free agents from other teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 2 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: Think you may be missing the boat with regards to the play on his name. What a soft response, one time your this way, and another that.... I cant miss that oceanliner of a U-turn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 hour ago, HardcoreZorn said: Really? There’s a huge running narrative now that we have over corrected and won’t pony up to get big time talent. I’ve never really agreed as I always looked at guys like Djax, Pierre, Norman, now Collins as examples of this FO shelling out for guys they believe can help the team. The Kirk fiasco fueled that as well, but yeah, I don’t believe that to be the case. Was a little jab at some fans that get really riled up we only go dumpster diving, yet get annoyed that it’s somwhow possible a player WANTS to play here due to reasons other than money. Both can’t really be true. You're basically just creating a straw man to beat up. Nobody arguing with you is saying they are cheap, but you are saying they are, and so they must be wrong. Like Brunnel, looking for a quick easy out when the protection breaks down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 42 minutes ago, Nerm said: I see some people that say they tend to be cheap when signing their own players, but reckless when paying free agents from other teams. That I have heard. Not sure I fully agree but it’s certainly a charge I have heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 1 minute ago, MartinC said: That I have heard. Not sure I fully agree but it’s certainly a charge I have heard. Yeah, I don't necessarily agree either. They have paid well for their guys like Kerrigan and Trent Williams. I think some of the complaints were mostly about the negotiations with Cousins, followed by the extension Smith received. If the Redskins are not able to reach an agreement with Scherff, I think it will feed that narrative quite a bit though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 14 hours ago, Peregrine said: You're basically just creating a straw man to beat up. Nobody arguing with you is saying they are cheap, but you are saying they are, and so they must be wrong. Like Brunnel, looking for a quick easy out when the protection breaks down? I’m not creating any straw man. Between Cousins’ situation, all of the talk surrounding the FO’s process of assigning a value to a player and not going over that figure (hence all the players who have come and gone on visits the past few years without signing), belief we only bargain bin shop on the open market, articles and media speculating we’ve over corrected from reckless Dan to boring and cheap Bruce. It’s everywhere on the board. Only point was that we are no longer the team overpaying to get players to come here. We’re the team that hosts Jon Hankins and allows to leave without a contract. And while I appreciate and understand that approach as it’s what I called for for years, many voice their displeasure over it. So to insinuate as Rufus did, that Flowers is puffing smoke up our asses by saying he came here to get an opportunity under Callahan and he really came here because our ineptness caused us to overpay and outbid everyone for his services, is false in my opinion. As as far as what you are saying on the side I’m not sure. I took Rufus’s comment to be a slam on the team for signing a crappy OL to a contract no one around the league dared to match. I highlighted the widespread belief that we actually tend to lowball in negotiations quite often and are no longer the place you come just to get paid. What was my “Hard Response?” Was it the “got it?” Or dumb comments are dumb? And my soft was that you were missing the play on Zorns name? Should I use a smiley face next time so you know that I’m not trying to be hard? 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santana_Fan_ Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Demarcus Lawrence has turned down a contract offer worth $120 million over 6 years. Who are they going to have left to play along the defensive line, outside of Taco Charlton? 😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerm Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, Santana_Fan_ said: Demarcus Lawrence has turned down a contract offer worth $120 million over 6 years. Who are they going to have left to play along the defensive line, outside of Taco Charlton? 😂 Dallas is in a rough position on this one. I think $20 mil per season is more than fair to him, but without details on the guarantees or structure of the contract it is tough to say for sure. The info I read was that Lawrence was asking for 20 per year, Dallas finally agreed, then Lawrence said he now wants 22.5 per year. Frustrating for Cowboys fans for sure. What is even more frustrating is that he needs surgery and will not get it until he signs the contract. So the longer this goes on, the more probable it is that he will not be ready to play early in the season. I think Lawrence is an outstanding player, but Dallas may need to start looking into trade options. This draft is deep in d linemen, it might be better to save $ and extend their other players. Cowboys had the youngest team in the playoffs last year, they have a lot of players that will want good money on their second contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 1 hour ago, Nerm said: Dallas is in a rough position on this one. I think $20 mil per season is more than fair to him, but without details on the guarantees or structure of the contract it is tough to say for sure. The info I read was that Lawrence was asking for 20 per year, Dallas finally agreed, then Lawrence said he now wants 22.5 per year. Frustrating for Cowboys fans for sure. What is even more frustrating is that he needs surgery and will not get it until he signs the contract. So the longer this goes on, the more probable it is that he will not be ready to play early in the season. I think Lawrence is an outstanding player, but Dallas may need to start looking into trade options. This draft is deep in d linemen, it might be better to save $ and extend their other players. Cowboys had the youngest team in the playoffs last year, they have a lot of players that will want good money on their second contracts. No way would i pay him 20 mil a year..That is just too much money for someone that isn't a game changer. I hope Dallas does sign him for that much as i think it would severly impact what they can do later with the cap.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Becoming much like the NBA for the superstars on teams, but one player outside of the elite QB doesn’t provide enough known value season to season. Also, the NBA markets to the individual player and the NFL is more about team, so no one player brings enough value monetarily (again, except the elite QB). Fascinating spot the NFL and fans are in— The Raiders elected to maximize trade value of Mack with the thinking he doesn’t move the needle enough for pay wanted and Cowboys are in middle of a similar situation. It’s not completely new, but a shift is taking place. Labor negotiations will be bananas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 17 minutes ago, wit33 said: Becoming much like the NBA for the superstars on teams, but one player outside of the elite QB doesn’t provide enough known value season to season. Also, the NBA markets to the individual player and the NFL is more about team, so no one player brings enough value monetarily (again, except the elite QB). Fascinating spot the NFL and is fans are in— The Raiders elected to maximize trade value of Mack with the thinking he doesn’t move the needle enough for pay wanted and Cowboys are in middle of a similar situation. It’s not completely new, but a shift is taking place. Labor negotiations will be bananas! You got it! I don't know how the NFL survives. Some teams are going to have to pull out possibly (Bengals, Bills etc.). It's ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghedrick Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I love it the cowgirls are in a position to pay top dollar to guys who are not in the top tier of talent at their positions.First Dak is going to get around 30 million a year lol.D-law wants to be paid like he is as good as Mack or Von Miller.Jaylon Smith is licking his lips seeing what CJ Mosley got.Oh yeah and the guy that is in the first tier of talent at his position in the league Zeke is waiting for his.Oh Byron Jones and Cooper want theirs to.The cowgirls are about to implode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 Good Lord raiders signing errrybudy..crowell and now Marshall to name a few.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 lol so junior galette changed his profile pic on Twitter to him against the giants thanksgiving night 2017. and pathetic skins fans start reading into it and saying “you’re coming back??” Or “come back please we need you!!!” 😂😂😂 pretty sure if the team wanted him back he woulda been signed LONGGGG ago. LET. IT. GO people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 34 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: lol so junior galette changed his profile pic on Twitter to him against the giants thanksgiving night 2017. and pathetic skins fans start reading into it and saying “you’re coming back??” Or “come back please we need you!!!” 😂😂😂 pretty sure if the team wanted him back he woulda been signed LONGGGG ago. LET. IT. GO people I’m certainly not going into read into things like that, but I do still maintain they should have signed him last year. Making a low offer this year ain’t a bad move either (IMO) as it allows more opportunity to let the draft come to us. Would give us more of a speed rush element (along with McKinzy (who?). Always the chance he returns to form and nets us a comp pick, and if not, the risk is super low. Apparently the FO isn’t feeling it though, which is fine - who knows about the behind the scenes stuff and what he actually showed on film and in practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 I have hoped for awhile that we have moved on from bringing back Gilette, Jackson, Garcon, anyone cut before 2017...hell, throw Griffin onto that list because I keep thinking dan needed to be restrained from trying to trade with the Ravens lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: I have hoped for awhile that we have moved on from bringing back Gilette, Jackson, Garcon, anyone cut before 2017...hell, throw Griffin onto that list because I keep thinking dan needed to be restrained from trying to trade with the Ravens lol... Not trying to be snarky, but how many of those were actually cut? More importantly though, why do you feel that way, is it a culture thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 29, 2019 Share Posted March 29, 2019 17 minutes ago, skinny21 said: Not trying to be snarky, but how many of those were actually cut? More importantly though, why do you feel that way, is it a culture thing? I didn't mean they had been cut, I meant in addition to the players I mentioned, also include anyone we cut or chose not to resign prior to 2017.... It's not a culture thing, I'm a huge fan of bringing in as any drafted players as possible and seeing which ones turn into keepers. I'd rather draft a good situational pass rusher than bring back Junior Galette after half a season of good play in the last 4 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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