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      In today's Divisional Debacle, the Defense under Greg Manusky in the first half, gave up 207 yards of offense (105 rushing/102 passing) and two touchdowns.  That said, they did manage a single INT on which the Offense actually managed to score a touchdown off of. They allowed 12 of 16 passes to be completed . 
       
      In the second half it was 107 yards given up (58 rushing//49 passing) a field goal and a touchdown. They traded their first half pick for a second half sack. However, Dallas completed all five of their pass attempts. 
       
      Don't read that thinking "Well it seems like they tightened up some in the 2nd half."  They didn't. They simply had about half the plays in the second half. 30 plays in the First and 18 in the Second.
       
      So far in two Divisional matchups, the Defense has faltered in the Second half. They start out like a house of fire for the first few drives until their opponents gradually make adjustments. This Defensive coaching staff fails make any adjustments, whether in game or at the very least at Halftime. They've given up over 30 points per game for a total of 63 points given up in two games. While the Bears are up next, the Pats await and they've put up over 70 points in two games. Yeah. Ok. They did shut out the Dolphins today which is looking like the NFL version of ... ahem... shooting fish in a barrel. 
       
      The frustrating thing is Manusky is the DC that the Front Office actively looked to replace during the off season without firing him. When you know they're looking to replace you, most people would make a concentrated effort to show an improvement. Yet Manusky's Defense still keeps acting like it's starring in Groundhog Day.
       
      In his post game presser, when asked directly about if any coaching changes would be made, Gruden said "No, I think after two games – you’re talking about playing two very good offensive football teams and two of the best offensive lines in pro football we just played back-to-back. That’s no excuse whatsoever, but I don’t think we need to hit the panic button yet. We just have to continue to focus on what we can do better to win. Get Jonathan [Allen] in here, get a couple of our corners back in here and let’s go back and strap it up against Chicago [Bears] next week and see what happens.” 
       
      Here's another frustrating thing. The defensive communication was an issue last season as well. Wasn't this supposed to have been worked on during OTA's and Training Camp? It's understandable that the rookies would still be on a learning curve, but NFL vets like Collins and DRC you'd think they would have down by the start of the season. 
       
      Gruden said they're a very talented group on Defense but that they weren't reaching them. When questioned as to why the coaching staff that has been in place for several years, wasn't reaching them, he defended the comment as them being a young defense. “We have some moving parts now. Landon Collins is a veteran guy but this is his first year, [Montez] Sweat’s in his first year, [Cole] Holcomb, it’s his first year, [Jon] Bostic is in his first year. We’re playing Dominique [Rodgers-Cromartie] at corner and this is Jimmy Moreland’s first year, so it’s not like we are the most experienced group. We feel like were very talented, but we`re still fighting through somethings. There are a lot of things to look forward to, without a doubt, but we do have to play better and strap it up and get back to work."

       
       
       
Riggo-toni

The 2019 Free Agency Tracker -Added: Landon Collins, Rodgers-Cromartie, Donald Penn, Flowers, Smallwood. Lost:Preston Smith, Nsekhe, Crowder, HaHa

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7 hours ago, Timberob said:

I dont get the love for Antonio Brown.   He is awesome with Ben.  Look at his stats without Ben.  I have long believed that the Ben/ Antonio pair may be one of if not the best combo in NFL history but it is them together.  Brown will not be a star in his next uniform.   Good but no longer elite

Agreed.  Supposedly skins are in the mix for him, like they are always rumored to be, and Steelers want a first.  Brown is turning 30 and will be going to a much worse offense, and would command a high cap number.  A trade for him would be a disaster, but with this regime needing a splash to keep their jobs, you can't count it out.

 

The three teams that have shown the most interest in wide receiver Antonio Brown to date are the Oakland Raiders, Washington Redskins and Tennessee Titans, per league sources. Thus, the battle for Brown could develop into a battle between Grudens, Jon and Jay.

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7 hours ago, Timberob said:

I dont get the love for Antonio Brown.   He is awesome with Ben.  Look at his stats without Ben.  I have long believed that the Ben/ Antonio pair may be one of if not the best combo in NFL history but it is them together.  Brown will not be a star in his next uniform.   Good but no longer elite

 

I think some on this board underestimate Brown. He's been pretty fantastic. But he'll also turn 31 before next season. So he's set for a decline any year now. Andre Johnson stopped being a #1 at age 32 and was pretty washed up by 33. Chad Johnson's last great season was at 29, though he did top 1000 yards (barely) at 31. Calvin Johnson was already retired at 31. Not sure why I'm just listing Johnson named WRs. Randy Moss' last good year was at age 32. There are exceptions, but a lot of WRs, even Hall of Famers, stopped being elite in their early 30s and several were simply done being any good by 33 or 34.

 

Bottom line, Brown was awesome. Probably won't be great moving forward, but could be good for a couple of seasons. This team has no QB or cap space, so no idea why anyone would give up assets to bring him here. Let alone the history of trading for vets trying to eek out one more year (McNabb, Alex Smith, Jason Taylor). Brown is a hard pass

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6 hours ago, RWJ said:

Was it expect to be a bit higher, SIP?

Most of what I've seen had estimates of 190 for the 2019 cap, so a smidge lower than expected.  But we need all the room we can get.

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I am not sure how people can say with a straight face that Antonio Brown is not Elite. Like comparing him to Mike Wallace or saying he is a product of the all mighty Big Ben...LOL...PLEASE. The dude has been the best in the game for the past five years. So please don't kid yourselves Antonio is legit...like HOF legit. That being said I don't want him here at this stage cuz we need to build a complete team with depth and start with a franchise QB. I mean it's a good place to start RIGHT? The whole thrower of the ball thing.. So a sane person may ask....we have too many holes to begin with so why bother with a high end reciever if you aint got the thrower? A sane person may ask that question... However..... after seeing what Cooper did for Dallas it would only be reasonable for a "win now" mouth breathing mindset to expect even better from Brown. Unfortunately, Dan and Bruce might remember those pivotal Cooper moments from this years Dallas beat down and trade away our future for one or two more years that Brown has left in the tank as being Elite. He is good enough to keep us in our 500 Purgatory for a few more years. YAY. I could only imagine Bruce dreaming of Flacco dropping rainbow dimes to Antonio for Superbowl glory.  Wake up Bruce your dreaming.  Bruce.....Please wake up..... Bruce...............

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Yeah, Brown is great. You could easily make the argument for him being the best WR in the game (you could also make that case easily for Hopkins or Julio, but still). Just a fantastic player.

 

And us trading for him would be a thoroughly moronic thing to do. If it weren't Bruce and Dan in charge, I wouldn't think it were possible we'd be dumb enough to think about it.

 

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1 hour ago, KillBill26 said:

Agreed.  Supposedly skins are in the mix for him, like they are always rumored to be, and Steelers want a first.  Brown is turning 30 and will be going to a much worse offense, and would command a high cap number.  A trade for him would be a disaster, but with this regime needing a splash to keep their jobs, you can't count it out.

 

The three teams that have shown the most interest in wide receiver Antonio Brown to date are the Oakland Raiders, Washington Redskins and Tennessee Titans, per league sources. Thus, the battle for Brown could develop into a battle between Grudens, Jon and Jay.

I can only hope the other teams outbid us.  Oakland has the ammo and hopefully they win the bidding war and get Brown.

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Good god no don't tell me we're going after AB.. Who the hell's gonna throw him the ball???? And if we draft a QB he's not gonna be around while he develops.. I have never used the #firebruceallen yet. But I will if we get him. I don't want that diva attitude, huge contract for a team that isn't good enough to make a push to warrant his spot on the roster..

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Bruce licking his lips to get a blue chipper in. Whilst I think we can work the cap no problem, AB will be after 20mil per year, that does seem prohibitive in our situation. Can't see him being happy tracking McCoys passes downfield either.

 

Will be interesting. Can't see the trade value being a first rounder. Take the Raiders interest, why would they trade Cooper for a first to the give a first for AB. Doesn't fit the strategy for me.

 

Although I may be deluded in thinking AB goes for much less than a first. I would going to say a third rounder is what they'd get. Steelers aren't screwed, but they are backed up in a corner a bit. 20mil dead cap and he isn't pulling their shirt on again. Damage limitation for them in my opinion.

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2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Bruce licking his lips to get a blue chipper in. Whilst I think we can work the cap no problem, AB will be after 20mil per year, that does seem prohibitive in our situation. Can't see him being happy tracking McCoys passes downfield either.

 

Will be interesting. Can't see the trade value being a first rounder. Take the Raiders interest, why would they trade Cooper for a first to the give a first for AB. Doesn't fit the strategy for me.

 

Although I may be deluded in thinking AB goes for much less than a first. I would going to say a third rounder is what they'd get. Steelers aren't screwed, but they are backed up in a corner a bit. 20mil dead cap and he isn't pulling their shirt on again. Damage limitation for them in my opinion.

 

I am not advocating going after AB. Not worth the hassle. Not sure the bolded has any bearing here. He is under contract to the Steelers. Unless there is a no trade clause he has no say in where he goes. Nothing I have read suggests he does. In fact this article says the Steelers can in fact trade him. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/can-the-steelers-trade-antonio-browns-contract-breaking-down-pros-and-cons-of-a-deal-in-2019/

 

The cost problem is on the Steelers. The new team would only be on the hook for the salary - 2019: $12.625M, 2020: $11.3M, and 2021: $12.5M. He could demand a renegotiation but he would have to sit out if he didn;t get it. ANd why? He already got a $19M signing bonus last yr when the Steelers gave him an extension. He still gets all the money owed him and the new new gets an ALL Pro WR for about $12M/yr. 

 

As for his trade value - that's a bit more tricky. Talent wise if Cooper is worth a 1st then AB is at least worth a 1st. But his trade demand and other antics reduce that. If I am the Steelers though, I would rather him sit than get anything less than a 1st rd pick. The best way that happens is if there are a few teams really interested and they get a bidding war going. But if there is only one team really interested, you would be right that they may have to go into damage control and get what they can. 

 

No matter they will have $21M of thier CAp tied up this year fro someone not playing for them (assuming he is willing to sit out if not traded). The problem with not unloading him this year, is that it could cost them next years salary. So even though they may want a 1st, if they get say a 2nd and that the best they can get, at least it let's them move on and saves them next yrs $11.3M CAP hit. 

 

Tough situation for them either way. Could not happen to a better team! Yes I hate the steelers! They may have the 2nd most arrogant fans after NE and Philly (they are tied for being the most ignorant and arrogant fans, at least in my opinion!)

 

Bringing this back to us, I am not interested. But I could see bruce making a play to win the off season again. 

 

 

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AB is elite, there is no question about that.  We have NO ONE to throw him the ball.  Nada, zip, zilch, etc.  Why in the world would we give up anything to get him on the team?  We need an OL that can protect whatever QB we get and that requires high draft picks.  Out current OL stinks.  We have 2 O linemen and one of them is on the downslope of his career.  We have nothing in the pipeline worth a damn.

 

All that being said, I see Bruce trading away two 1sts and a 3rd to the Steelers for AB and using our remaining picks for punters.

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One NFL insider said awhile back it wouldn't take a first rounder to get Brown.  But who knows.  If the Raiders want the dude, how can we outbid them though aside from offering our first rounder?  My point is I don't see them outbidding the Raiders.

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1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

The cost problem is on the Steelers. The new team would only be on the hook for the salary - 2019: $12.625M, 2020: $11.3M, and 2021: $12.5M. He could demand a renegotiation but he would have to sit out if he didn;t get it. ANd why? He already got a $19M signing bonus last yr when the Steelers gave him an extension. He still gets all the money owed him and the new new gets an ALL Pro WR for about $12M/yr. 

 

AB is not playing football again if that is what he is going to be paid. He'll sit.

 

Story goes that this year FA WR market for the likes of Golden Tate will be in the region of 14mil p/y deals. AB want paid, and he want a truck load of guaranteed money. The Steelers only have a viable trade partner if that partner can agree contract terms with AB during the trade. Who would trade a high pick on a player who will sit out.

 

20mil p/y could be slight exaggeration, but I'll go on record that he will get a new deal, wherever that is, and it will be 3years 56/60mil or 4 years 72-80mil.

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13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One NFL insider said awhile back it wouldn't take a first rounder to get Brown.  But who knows.  If the Raiders want the dude, how can we outbid them though aside from offering our first rounder?  My point is I don't see them outbidding the Raiders.

 

Me neither, however I think AB has a stronger hand in the trade than others. He's only going to go to a place he wants to. If he says that he ain't going to play if you trade me to Washington, what we going to do, proceed with the trade? No chance. 

 

I agree we cant outbid the Raiders based on draft capital. Can't see the price being a first rounder in any instance.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Me neither, however I think AB has a stronger hand in the trade than others. He's only going to go to a place he wants to. If he says that he ain't going to play if you trade me to Washington, what we going to do, proceed with the trade? No chance. 

 

I agree we cant outbid the Raiders based on draft capital. Can't see the price being a first rounder in any instance.

 

My take on Brown is I don't hate the idea if they don't give up a first rounder or multiple picks.  But for me to like it they have to have a plan we aren't aware of at QB.  Because Colt throwing to Brown to me will be painful and that includes all the drama that would ensue from it.  So in theory I don't like it because its hard to envision how they'd make it work but I'd wait to see what the next move would be if any at QB.    Seeing the comment below sounds like they want to make a splash.  And while most of us (me included) have made fun of this in the past -- they've swung the pendulum so far the other way where the team has become boring and irrelevant nationally -- that I am now at least enjoying a little that they feel some desperation to generate some excitement.  Still, I don't want them to make a stupid move even if it generates buzz.   You can be interesting and make moves that advance the team -- the two ideas don't have to be incompatible. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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Brown wants to go to a team that's qb friendly.."if" the skins are in the mix ya figure they gotta be buttering up ab with some type of "imagine Murray or Bridgewater or or throwing you the ball"..i see 2000 all over again 😪

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1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

One NFL insider said awhile back it wouldn't take a first rounder to get Brown.  But who knows.  If the Raiders want the dude, how can we outbid them though aside from offering our first rounder?  My point is I don't see them outbidding the Raiders.

 

I don't see the Raiders doing it given all the chatter of the needs they have, like Skins and the statements made by Mayock on looking for football players who grind, work everyday, good team player, etc.  I guess my point is that AB isn't that.  Not sure it fits their mold but could be wrong.  Meanwhile, the fact that they are said to be looking at making a hard push on Tyrell Williams kind of goes against trading for AB.  If its just down to Titans and Skins, we have the better draft position there.  

 

I'm against it, would rather draft one of those studs.

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Posted (edited)
4 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

I don't see the Raiders doing it given all the chatter of the needs they have, like Skins and the statements made by Mayock on looking for football players who grind, work everyday, good team player, etc.  I guess my point is that AB isn't that.  Not sure it fits their mold but could be wrong.  Meanwhile, the fact that they are said to be looking at making a hard push on Tyrell Williams kind of goes against trading for AB.  If its just down to Titans and Skins, we have the better draft position there.  

 

I'm against it, would rather draft one of those studs.

 

Schefter though isn't speculating these teams might be interested -- that's not how Schefter rolls.  Schefter is flat out saying the Raiders are interested.  He's not the only one saying so, Pauline among others said he heard the Raiders are poking at this.  Question though always at what price?  Read somewhere the Raiders don't want to give up a first in a deal. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

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Just listened to Hoffman, he said his source with the team doesn't think Brown happens, problem Brown wants to redo his contract and get bigger money, they can't do that.

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1 hour ago, bakedtater1 said:

Brown wants to go to a team that's qb friendly.."if" the skins are in the mix ya figure they gotta be buttering up ab with some type of "imagine Murray or Bridgewater or or throwing you the ball"..i see 2000 all over again 😪

 

Not sure how either of those QBs are even selling points. A guy who hasn't started in 3 years and no one wanted to be their starter last year and an unproven rookie. Both could be good, but Antonio Brown has no guarantees on that, which is a huge risk for a guy in the last few years of his career.

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We will only trade for Brown if the Steelers also agree to getting a good young player from us in return. Bruce doesn’t just make questionable trades to distract the fanbase and the owner with a shiny new toy — he makes horrendous ones. 

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